US Open - Matches

First topic message reminder :

Have changed the topic so that this thread can run through the tournament. Hope that's OK

CaledonianCraig wrote:Sounds like a massacre. Novak will now play Mikhail Youznhy in the quarters. The more of these wins he can get the more his mojo may return.

It was ridiculous. Total points won:
Djokovic -86
Granollers- 36

Also of note, Djokovic won 28/30 net points!

It was a ruthless performance from Novak but he really wasn't under any pressure at all.

I really hoping for a good SF (the Murray/Novak side, I'm less optimistic on the Rafa side) and final. Murray -Rafa still my fabourite final

Granollers had a good tournament with 3 comeback victories in a row but this was inevitable after those tough 5 setters.

However he did make one achievement. 13 games lost in a row. I haven't seen the like of it since Henman-Coria 2004. So maybe Tim will spare him a thought.

Does Rafa have the stamina for a 5 setter ?

Not been pushed at all since he came back from injury, except Darcy in 3 at SW19 and beating Djokovic in 5 at the FO on clay.

I reckon he'll wilt if Gasquet or Robredo put up a fight and he gets a hot, humid night game.

Nah, Rafa will make the final. Gasquet and Robredo have the game to beat him but they won't know how to and they've played him too many times to not fear him. Plus, frankly, Rafa excels at 5-set tennis and his fitness looks fine. He also loves playing in hot and humid. It might compromise him in the SF and F though, (relatively) more likely he would win in 5 (if the opposition put up a fight) and then lose the next match in straights

Novak appears to be building into form at just the right time though, as does Murray. Going to be a good end

ChequeredJersey wrote:Nah, Rafa will make the final. Gasquet and Robredo have the game to beat him but they won't know how to and they've played him too many times to not fear him. Plus, frankly, Rafa excels at 5-set tennis and his fitness looks fine. He also loves playing in hot and humid. It might compromise him in the SF and F though, (relatively) more likely he would win in 5 (if the opposition put up a fight) and then lose the next match in straights

Gasquet and Robredo have next to no chance of beating Rafa. Gasquet has absolutely no chance. Ferrer has a very tiny chance. He does have 4 victories in 24 against Nadal which is quite much for a Spaniard against Rafa. But I think Nadal is in the final. It's not like any of those guys could do a Soderling and blow him off court.

Rafa is nailed on for the final. There is no bigger certainty at these championships. He couldn't have picked a better group of players left in his half. 2 single handed backhand players, one who stays a mile behind the baseline and the other solid but lacking weaponry.... And Ferrer who he owns to the point of cruelty.

He would be huge favourite to win it if Andy and Novak play in the other semi. Chances are they would tear lumps out of each other, and the victor will face a monumental task in following that up by beating a fresh Rafa.

Or an undercooked Rafa. Hypothetically

He had to come back the other night from dropping the first set, and raised his level. So I don't think he'll be undercooked. Plus he's looked red hot the whole hard court season.

He looks fit, aggressive court position, confident... And his 2 rivals for the tournament might beat each other up in the semi. Rafa couldn't have written a better script.

Of course, Berdy or Stan could change all this... In which case I'd say Novak and Rafa would be close to equal favourites.

I thought Djokovic was way more agressive than recently. Ok the opposition doesnt help but he did score 28 points at the net.

Oh dear. Sometimes you watch Serena bludgeon these WTA players and have to wonder if it's fair they play on this tour with her. Maybe they should have a boxing style weight class. A double-bagel against an opponent with absolutely no weapon to hurt her with. A bit like her French Open demolition of Errani or her crushing of Schiavone in this tournament. She really is something else.

Worse still, it's Suarez- Navarro's birthday. 

Wow, Andy drops the first set.  Only got home to see the TB, so not sure how they got to that point, but it looks like his first real test.

Just like at the French Open, we will have four SHBHs vs four DHBHs in the quarters.  On the SH side, Federer and Haas were replaced by Youzhny and Gasquet, while on the DH side, we will have Murray/Istomin instead of Tsonga.

At the French, single-handers all lost.  Will they do better this time?  They will likely all be underdogs this time around.  Youzhny (vs Nole) and Robredo (vs Rafa) prohibitive underdogs.  But Gasquet vs Ferrer and Stan vs Andy might have a chance.  I would like to see at least one of them making the SF.

Wawrinka appears to be hot at the moment. Arguably a more difficult match than the easier to read Berdych

Easily potentially the best QF

Yes Banbro, it is the best quarter final in my opinion. Stan has given him troubles in the past, but if Murray plays well he should win.

Lets be honest, it's a lot better than Berdych who always gives Murray trouble. Murray played pretty well v Istomin. Will have to step up a gear against Stan though.

Henman Bill wrote:However he did make one achievement. 13 games lost in a row. I haven't seen the like of it since Henman-Coria 2004. So maybe Tim will spare him a thought.

It was actually 15 games in a row! It got to 3-3 in the first and then Granollers didn't win another game.

Henman had that match won - a set and a break up. Just a slight loss of concentration for a dozen or so games cost him dearly

HM Murdoch wrote:

Henman Bill wrote:However he did make one achievement. 13 games lost in a row. I haven't seen the like of it since Henman-Coria 2004. So maybe Tim will spare him a thought.

It was actually 15 games in a row! It got to 3-3 in the first and then Granollers didn't win another game.

wrong I'm afraid. It was 2-2 in the first, then Djokovic broke for 5-2, then Granollers won his last game, so 13 in a row.

I watched the first set and didn't think Djokovic played that great, though he must have improved thereafter. Granollers was awful.

Ok, where do I start? Wow Stan, that's an incredible victory. I'd rather Murray played him than Berdych because although Stan has caused Murray problems in the past (mostl on clay), the match I'll remember most fondly is the Olympic first round where Murray made him look pedestrian.

As for Sir Andrew, I'm currently watching the match now. I know the score and it's a good win but a shame his tiebreak run at Flushing Meadows had to come to an end (8 in a row or something). The QF will be a good match but if it's on Ashe, surely one man is only going to win?

Granollers.... Well that's 4 bagels in 3 days. Novak could have beaten him with no left arm I imagine.

The Special Juan wrote:I know the score and it's a good win but a shame his tiebreak run at Flushing Meadows had to come to an end (8 in a row or something).  The QF will be a good match but if it's on Ashe, surely one man is only going to win?

About to watch it myself. Surely, this is one match that would be better for Murray on Armstrong, which is faster? Think Andy will win though

I think it depends if Stan gets his groundstrokes working. If he's blistering backhands and firing forehands then surely the slower court is better? Murray will be able to move him about more on Ashe too and as Stan's not the fittest, that's a very effective tactic.

Surely both quarter finals tomorrow will be on Ashe, one in the afternoon and one in the evening like today for the other 2 matches

Oh are all the QFs not on the same day? My mistake Cilic v Murray was on Armstrong last year but that might have been weather related I think.

Stan might knock Andy maybe, but only Andy can knock Djoko, so I hope Andy-Nadal final, and Andy to defend USO title after so many years of no one defending USO.

Mad for Chelsea wrote:wrong I'm afraid. It was 2-2 in the first, then Djokovic broke for 5-2, then Granollers won his last game, so 13 in a row.

I watched the first set and didn't think Djokovic played that great, though he must have improved thereafter. Granollers was awful.

I stand corrected, you're quite right. Not sure where the 3-3 recollection came from!

I thought Novak was very good throughout, albeit against very weak opposition.

Stan is having his best season but surely Andy M will be happier facing him than Berdych. I expect a tight match that Andy will win in three or four.
A Stan win could mean he ends the year as the Swiss number one! Whoda thunk it?

I am sure Murray is delighted to see berdych out. It will really depend now which stan turns up. On the upside for him, he will have been well hardened. He has beaten baghdatis, berdych and karlovic which is a very tough draw for any player. If he plays like he did against Novak at oz open, Murray will want to be switched on big time.

I still fancy Murray to take him in 4 sets. If wawrinka brings his A game, could be an upset. I seem to remember him beating Murray at us open a few years back (could have been oz?).

Would put this at 65 - 35 in Murray favour

The Special Juan wrote:Oh are all the QFs not on the same day?  My mistake  Cilic v Murray was on Armstrong last year but that might have been weather related I think.

Nope, not on the same day, Nadal v Robredo and Gasquet v Ferrer today, the other 2 are tomorrow.

The Special Juan wrote:I think it depends if Stan gets his groundstrokes working.  If he's blistering backhands and firing forehands then surely the slower court is better?  Murray will be able to move him about more on Ashe too and as Stan's not the fittest, that's a very effective tactic.

Didn't seem to work last time they met on the slowest surface, clay  For me a fast court, protects Murray's serve - he'll alway return any serve. I see what you mean but also a fast court helps those who are, er, fast

In fairness Stan did win here in 2010 - so there is no certainty

Difficult match for Andy, Stan is always a tricky customer and has already beaten Andy at the US Open 3 years ago so Andy will know how dangerous he is

Really hope Gasquet beats Ferrer today, otherwise Nadal will be certain to get into the final with ease.

sirfredperry wrote:Stan is having his best season but surely Andy M will be happier facing him than Berdych. I expect a tight match that Andy will win in three or four.
   A Stan win could mean he ends the year as the Swiss number one! Whoda thunk it?  

I personally think that Berdych is more predictable and when Murray brings his A game to their hard court meetings, he wins. Not certain, a firing Wawrinka wouldn't put doubts in the mind of a firing Murray.

Andy has problems against players with good single backhands - they nearly always take a set off him whenever they play him (see Gasquet). Kolshrieber walloped him in 2010, for the loss of just three games, although admittedly on the dirt. He doesn't has a good rather than dominant reocrd over them in comparison to equivalent players (i.e. Tsonga, Cilic)

The reason is that they wreak havoc with his carefully laid plans, forcing him to be me aggressive on their terms. Less of a problem, now Andy's more naturally aggressive, but still a problem

slashermcguirk wrote:I seem to remember him beating Murray at us open a few years back (could have been oz?)

It was here (US) three years ago. Easily Murray's worst / most disappointing Slam performance. Stan made him look like, well stupid.

I'm much more comfortable with Murray playing Stan. It's a match Stan can win of course, he was fractions away from beating Novak in Melbourne and that was with Novak playing pretty well too... But it's a match that if Murray serves and returns well I think he should win.

With Berdych, the inferiority complex he has against the top guys does not exist against Andy. Murray really struggles against him, even when he plays well.

As for Stan beating Murray in New York before, that's certainly up there in terms of Murray's bad slam performances. He was a set up and served for the second set, but got broken and then imploded... Screaming at himself, and his corner.

I can remember John Mac hitting the nail on the head during the commentary "Murray needs to start fighting with Stan here, but he's too busy fighting himself... And he's losing!"

I don't think that will happen again. I think Murray in 4 fairly tight sets.

Glad to see the seed-plough out of the tournament with Novak turning him over.
A nice performance by Novak but it was almost exhibition stuff...the seed-plough seemed to have no Ox pulling it up front.

If Stan plays out of his skin or Andy has a wobble then he has a chance...but this isn't Murray from a few years back so its got to be 80-90% probability Andy goes through. I don't agree this is Stan's best ever season...his current ranking isn't his highest ever (2008).

If Andy-Novak semifinal then I don't see them killing each other in terms of it affecting the final. It didn't harm Novak vs Rafa at AO12.
Plus they have a day off on Sunday. Rafa shouldnt have any trouble with Gasquet or Youzhny...they may set an early set but not much more. I'd like to see a Murray-Nadal final as they haven't met in ages and it'll be a true test of where Murray's game is at given he's had problems with Rafa before.

Lydian. Have you noticed Andy's struggles with the SBH merchants - relative to when he plays other equivalent players

Stan's got 5 wins, Gasquet 3 or 4, Kohl won their only meeting. Strangely though he has a good record against Feds (relative to other players playing Roger)

My theory is that these players have far more variety which kind of negates Andy's - hence they are always some kind of struggle as he can't hit through them

SHBH players use slice more...Andy has this weird W/SW forehand grip as he started out SW, then went to W when he trained in Spain then reverted back to SW. These variations mean he still gets caught out with at times with fast low balls where he seems to revert to an extreme W grip making him top balls the FH into the net. You see him do this a lot. However, Stan doesn't particularly have a great slice, which is strange for a SHBH guy...probably because he's brought up on clay so hits over the ball nearly all the time. One of the reasons he struggles with Nadal is that Rafa slices him a lot (unusual for a DHBH guy), plus pulls him way out of court on the FH and BH side which Andy used to really struggle with.

In terms of variety, I agree. Rafa plays with an underestimated amount of variety...his FH alone has 4-5 variants of play. He's constantly mixing things up and Andy is a counterpuncher at heart so likes a nice even pace to attack back against. But he does struggle - again - with guys who can overpower his FH due to those grip issues. These include Roger, Rafa, Berdy, Delpo and Novak. Stan can also hit very hard but he usually lacks consistency to hit 2-3 great shots in a ralley.

Banbro - Are you saying that stan, gasquet and kohli have more variety than feds?
I really don't think murray has much variety anymore, look at the wimby final. Murray defended more (more ground covered), came to the net less, less drop shots etc.

The Murray-Istomin match was a strange one, especially the first set. Murray could have played better, but did not, and let Istomin dictate play for long periods.

The pattern was 4-5 FHs in Murray's FH corner, Murray CC FH to Istomin FH, and Istomin DTL FH. Done. I was tired of watching the same thing over and over again. Is this Lendl's doing? (Did see Lydian's grip treatise on Murray...).

banbrotam wrote:Lydian. Have you noticed Andy's struggles with the SBH merchants - relative to when he plays other equivalent players

Stan's got 5 wins, Gasquet 3 or 4, Kohl won their only meeting. Strangely though he has a good record against Feds (relative to other players playing Roger)

My theory is that these players have far more variety which kind of negates Andy's - hence they are always some kind of struggle as he can't hit through them

Most of those defeats though are either on clay or when Andy was still in nappies. The only exception to that was the Wawrinka defeat at the US in 2010 and that was through overpowering Andy not variety.

laverfan wrote:The Murray-Istomin match was a strange one, especially the first set. Murray could have played better, but did not, and let Istomin dictate play for long periods.

The pattern was 4-5 FHs in Murray's FH corner, Murray CC FH to Istomin FH, and Istomin DTL FH. Done. I was tired of watching the same thing over and over again. Is this Lendl's doing? (Did see Lydian's grip treatise on Murray...).

It was a frustrating match to watch. Andy's serve speed was WTA at best and he just seemed to be hitting a lot of routine shots just long. The tiebreak was even more bizarre especially when he got the mini break and then just gifted his serve away.

Istomin you feel just seemed overwhelmed by the occasion.

Andy you feel needs to up it a bit now.

Tomas Berdych proving that proof-reading is a must as a top athlete...

Spoiler:

^ That made me genuinely laugh

By all accounts it was very windy last night though, so its no shock the tennis was not pretty and Murray tends to play relatively poorly in the wind (although not to Novak levels). He has looked in decent form the rest of the tournament so I don't see reason for concern.

I was quietly confident Andy would have beaten Berdych (despite a 5-6 head-to-head) so considering Andy has an 8-5 record V Wawrinka confidence is higher. I think three of Stan's wins have come on clay as well. Don't get me wrong though Stan is the sort of player with the game to trouble Andy. If Murray goes attritional he will struggle but if he plays aggressive hitting deep and following up into the net I think there will only be one winner.

Dodig's a fairly ordinary singles player but is currently bossing this doubles match. The Fed should seriously consider a doubles career, it's a chance to rack up some fairly easy majors I think.

LuvSports! wrote:Banbro - Are you saying that stan, gasquet and kohli have more variety than feds?
I really don't think murray has much variety anymore, look at the wimby final. Murray defended more (more ground covered), came to the net less, less drop shots etc.

Answer to the first question, no!! His record against Fed is a clear case of the exception proving the rule.

And he's still got plenty of variety - he showed it in the last round, he just uses it more sparingly.

"For as bad as he is in Slam fourth rounds (2-15), Gasquet is a career 1-0 in Slam QFs"