Champions League Group Stages

First topic message reminder :

The draw is tonight and we could have some potentially crazy strong groups, Manchester City have a 50% chance of being in the same group as Bayern Munich or Barcelona.

What is the tie everybody wants to see in the group stages?

CSKA Moscow have basically said  that YAYA has made up these allegations and that there fans did nothing wrong whats so ever..And there is no subject to discuss

  

What is wrong with these people

It's Russia. The biggest racist nation in the world. What do you expect?

The bigger concern is how uefa will deal with it.

They have given out 20k fans for this before and just said its dealt with..

Time to do something. 

Russia seem to have fifa and uefa in there pockets at the moment! and i dont expect it to change.

And if it doesn't and a ludicrously light punishment is dished out my problem isn't with russia of cska its with UEFA and FIFA!

Not being funny but against better opposition, giggs` shambolic, lazy play on the 18 yard box twice & from 30 yards where he got robbed, would of subsequently seen you lose the game. Agree his general play was good but his mistakes seem to go unnoticed. Sociedad were shocking, no two ways about it. Rooney was again a positive, basically carrying the team, Kagawa did impress but he misses absolute sitters. You can't read much from the game, reminds me of United thrashing Leverkusen n everybody praising n hyping the result, only to see United dismantled by City.

Disgraceful what happened in Russia but what do you expect. Nothing ever happens, no substantial punishment from the weak powers that lead the sport.

I think sociedad are as good as most mid table clubs in the prem mate. And Man u actually played football against them.
Man u looked like a championship team v palace and not much better against others!!

I'm still liking Bayern for glory. Dortmund beat Arsenal but that showed up a lot of their defensive frailties.

kingraf wrote:I'm still liking Bayern for glory. Dortmund beat Arsenal but that showed up a lot of their defensive frailties.

I am warming to PSG,

chelsea will obviously allways be a threat , the master tacticians

Barac and real as well

But bayern certainly favs still


Its between those 5 for me

mystiroakey wrote:I think sociedad are as good as most mid table clubs in the prem mate. And Man u actually played football against them.
Man u looked like a championship team v palace and not much better against others!!

No! Can't agree from what I saw. Lost their manager & a few players from last year, struggling in La liga.

Agree, United are still nothing special. 2nd round knockout - they need some luck with the draw

Duty281 wrote:
Sociedad a very poor side. Reminded me of a bottom-half Premier League team. Never put United under serious pressure, even towards the end. Another tick in the box for why the PL is better than La Liga - depth. Most PL teams would beat Sociedad.

Well, Sociedad are a bottom half La Liga outfit. They are currently 12th which suggests that most top flight Spainish teams are better then them too.

From United's perspective, its difficult to draw many conclusions until they start winning a few games on the trot. As John pointed out, they had previously outclassed a decent Bayer side but were unable to build on it.
Despite a good showing yesterday, the fact that a 40 year old Giggs still finds himself reguarly in the starting 11 should be a cause of concern.

City were more impressive. Not many teams go to a hostile Moscow envoirnment and come back with a win.

"Well, Sociedad are a bottom half La Liga outfit. They are currently 12th which suggests that most top flight Spainish teams are better then them too"


no they are not ..


they are a top 4 la liga outfit based on last year and just 12th at this moment in time(a small way into the season!!) as funnily enough so were united one game ago as well!!

Duty281 wrote:
Sociedad a very poor side. Reminded me of a bottom-half Premier League team. Never put United under serious pressure, even towards the end. Another tick in the box for why the PL is better than La Liga - depth. Most PL teams would beat Sociedad.

Socieded were 15th until last weekend, they lost two of their best player's in the summer. The English champion's beating them 1-0 isn't particularly impressive.

"Socieded were 15th until last weekend, they lost two of their best player's in the summer. The English champion's beating them 1-0 isn't particularly impressive"


Immense LOGIC FAIL


You rate sociedad on their position in their league one week ago(not on their top 4 last season!!) and you base united on winning the league(yet one week ago were 12th themselves)


That is classic dude.. Talk about trying to misinterpret stats to satisfy an agenda!!

mystiroakey wrote:"Well, Sociedad are a bottom half La Liga outfit. They are currently 12th which suggests that most top flight Spainish teams are better then them too"


no they are not ..


they are a top 4 la liga outfit based on last year and just 12th at this moment in time(a small way into the season!!) as funnily enough so were united one game ago as well!!

Exactly, mysti.  

They finished 4th last season in La Liga - they wouldn't have even finished top half in the English Premier League last season. Just highlights how superior the Premier League is to that Spanish rubbish, where match-fixing is rife, and half the league is Championship standard.

Just basing it on the logic you used to Sociedad being still a top 4 team in La Liga despite them last being there 6 months ago, they are a complete flash in the pan team who lost their best player in the summer and have won 2 of 9 in the league since. They are a mid table La Liga side, I just wasn't agreeing with Duty's testament that this narrow home win was some big up for the PL. Of course the PL has far better depth than La Liga, 90% of the teams are broke, still doesn't mean I would rather watch garbage like Hull over Osasuna ,they are both hopeless.

Duty281 wrote:

mystiroakey wrote:"Well, Sociedad are a bottom half La Liga outfit. They are currently 12th which suggests that most top flight Spainish teams are better then them too"


no they are not ..


they are a top 4 la liga outfit based on last year and just 12th at this moment in time(a small way into the season!!) as funnily enough so were united one game ago as well!!

Exactly, mysti.  

They finished 4th last season in La Liga - they wouldn't have even finished top half in the English Premier League last season. Just highlights how superior the Premier League is to that Spanish rubbish, where match-fixing is rife, and half the league is Championship standard.

Didn't Athletic Bilbao beat Man United home and away when Man United led the league and Bilbao were 8th in La Liga only two years back. It's all hypothetical rubbish.

Many average teams have one strong season and return to medicority the following one.
Sociedad have not been a major Spainish force for over a decade prior to last year. This season they have not started their season well - below mid-table in their league and have lost all three CL games so far.
To me, it just seems they've returned to medicority after one good season.

"Just basing it on the logic you used to Sociedad "



No I based it on logic ,not your strange concept of it!(you have to base it on current position or a before position- you need a constant!)

not either or which fits the agenda!

the below would be arguing for united based on your logic!


"Well , man u were 12th until last weekend, they lost the worlds best manager in the summer . it doesn't say much for a cl qualified spanish outfit does it!"

J.Benson II wrote:Many average teams have one strong season and return to medicority the following one.
Sociedad have not been a major Spainish force for over a decade prior to last year. This season they have not started their season well - below mid-table in their league and have lost all three CL games so far.
To me, it just seems they've returned to medicority after one good season.

thats immaterial because that is how the la liga goes- there 4th placed best team is allways kind of similar in quality- they just switch up(and they never ever get 4 if even 3 teams into the knock outs!). They are not like the prem with 4-7 quality outfits, yes they may have 3 good teams and two possibly better than what we have- but we have 7-10 better teams than there 4th best, the same goes for the bundes as well.

mystiroakey wrote:

J.Benson II wrote:Many average teams have one strong season and return to medicority the following one.
Sociedad have not been a major Spainish force for over a decade prior to last year. This season they have not started their season well - below mid-table in their league and have lost all three CL games so far.
To me, it just seems they've returned to medicority after one good season.

thats immaterial because that is how the la liga goes- there 4th placed best team is allways kind of similar in quality- they just switch up(and they never ever get 4 if even 3 teams into the knock outs!). They are not like the prem with 4-7 quality outfits, yes they may have 3 good teams and two possibly better than what we have

What are you talking about? They had all 4 team's in to the Knockout stages last year compared to England, who had 2, stop talking nonsense.

one year!!

you think i am talking nonsense- you base everything on the most ridiculous data ever-look at the other 10 years before it!!

mystiroakey wrote:

J.Benson II wrote:Many average teams have one strong season and return to medicority the following one.
Sociedad have not been a major Spainish force for over a decade prior to last year. This season they have not started their season well - below mid-table in their league and have lost all three CL games so far.
To me, it just seems they've returned to medicority after one good season.

thats immaterial because that is how the la liga goes- there 4th placed best team is allways kind of similar in quality- they just switch up(and they never ever get 4 if even 3 teams into the knock outs!). There are not like the prem with 4-7 quality outfits, yes they may have 3 good teams and two possible better than what we have- but we have 7-10 better teams than there 4th best, the same goes for the bundes as well.

What you've got to remember mate, it that for less established teams, football can be pretty unpredictable. One good season can easily be followed by a very poor one.
Remember Ipswich Town? Around a decade ago, they only missed out on CL qualification on the final day of the season.
The very next season they got relegated.
Imagine had they qualified for the CL and met the likes of Madrid. It would technically have been a top four Spainish club against a top four English club (going by the previous season).
However, as we all know, this wouldnt have told the full story.

Surely if you were going to make such a statement you would at least look at the previous years.

2012/2013 4-2 LL
2011/2012 2-2
2010/2011 4-3 EPL
2009/2010 3-3
2008/2009 4-3 EPL
2007/2008 4-3 EPL
2006/2007 4-3 EPL
2005/2006 3-3
2004/2005 4-2 EPL
2003/2004 4-3 LL

So overall the "never ever get 4 if even 3 teams in to the knock out stages" is complete tosh. Though I'm sure these fact's are down to ridiculous made up data of reality.

ok i concede on that one- but its still only 4 teams once in 9 years!! the epl had 4 teams 5 times in that period. So although my initial statement was factually wrong( i admit that) the point remains.

BUt on a positive La liga note. Atletico could be that next team that actually sticks about at the top level..

that 4th spot clearly however could be any one team still, whereas in england that 4th team is allways very decent.

Fair enough mysti, I wasn't even saying the EPL isn't a better league, I just don't think there's much difference in performance compared to what you suggested. It's 33-30 in team's qualified to the last 16 in the last ten years to the EPL. So pretty close, apologies if I came across as a bit pompous about it though  

I may have done that as well mate!!

no worries.

Looking forward to tonights games. United with a chance to put one foot in the knockout round, same for City in their clash with CSKA and no doubt a high quality clash between Juventus and Real Madrid

Juve were robbed by terrible officiating in the first game, hope they hammer the most overated team in the world tonight.

This is the less entertaining side of the draw, still looking forward to it

Wouldn't be surprised if Juve won tonight. Real are leaking goals at the moment and not many go to Turin and win.

I like the look of Utd's side tonight. Big game for Fellaini tonight, a strong performance will most likely see him start against Arsenal at the weekend. Also pleased Hernandez get's a start, keep him happy plus he's in the goals. Gives RVP some time to rest up ready for the weekend.

I don't think Real are the most overrated team in the world. Most journos have quite rightly seen it as the C.Ronnie show. The midfield is hardly los Galacticos, and the back four are problematic, to say the least. I'm still not sure Casillas is really better than Lopez.

Really just got to hope Cristian Bale keep linking up, because this is as bad a Real side as I've seen (well not really)

City one up. Aguero with a penalty

That would have been a quality goal from Ronnie

Decent move from united down the left. Scuffed shot from kagawa but deflection could have gone anywhere.

Aguero again. He's in fantastic form.

Comfortable for Utd so far, just lacking that bit of quality on the final third. Smalling has been superb at right back. I feel if we get one we'll get 2/3

United game is tedious.

I see ronaldo has scored an equalizer. Class act

Bale off the mark in the champions league for real. They lead juve 2-1

Another dive for a penalty from young. But van persie has his kick saved anyways. Disappointing all round

Ashley Young going down with miminal contact yet again justice done with the penalty miss.

Red card falleini for a second yellow. Stupid challenges tonight. Tense last five mins

Actually thought Fellaini played pretty well tonight, silly little tackle at the end.

Utd missed some absolute sitters tonight, Hernandez not making a great claim for more gametime with that performance

What a frustrating game from Utd tonight. Should have scored at least two with hernandez and RVP.

Young was absolutely rubbish, he must be sold asap. Brings nothing the table. He cuts in every time on his right, everyone knows it and he can't do anything else. If Zaha hadn't got involved in Moyes' daughter he would be on the bench. Thank god for Januzaj.

Vidic and Rio look past it this season, Jones and Evans should be our new CB pairings. Kagawa played well with RVP. Shame because of Rooney's form. He's the right player at the wrong time unfortunately.

Not a great result or performance but it will all be forgotten if united can pick up the relevant points in the remaining games. The worry is that without Rooney, van persie and januzej playing together it all looks a bit flat

Think Young was fouled. Also think Young did exactly what Liam said he cant when he set up RVP for his chance.

Rio and Vidic back to keep a much needed clean sheet. Job done overall, really. Dont lose in Leverkusen then beat Shakhtar at home, both of which you'd expect, and they nail top spot. Should have had it done tonight but doesnt always happen

I must admit when I saw the incident real time, I thought it was penalty.

For nearly 60 mins of the Utd match I was bored....it was very nearly like 90's Italian football.....the stuff that bores me to sleep.

However, Utd stay in a great position and I look, cautiously, forward to the next game.

Like I said, should have won tonight, how hernandez missed that chance i don't know but we're unbeaten. Even if we draw with Leverkusen, its in our hands at OT and i'd back us to beat Donestk. They aren't good travelers.

2-2 in Turin is a decent enough score, for los Blancos. Must say, I'm beginning to become a Bale-iever. Will he ever justify the price tag? Don't think so, but he is a class act and certainly won't shame himself in this Real team.

Ordinary United & just playing at a level which should just see them through. Lucky that the opposition quality is pretty bad in this group. It's a shocking Sociedad team, a rebuilding period for Shakthar after selling their best players & Leverkusen, who let's face it, at Old Trafford looked appalling.

Fellaini - terrible, deserved the red in my opinion, four of five stupid little challenges. You can get away with it in the EPL but not with these european referees. He'll need to learn to play at this level & how aggressive to be. Still think he's never a United player, horrible lack of pace & how Giggs still plays at this level is astonishing.

Good qualification for City, easier group this year, which I'm sure Mancini would have got them out of. Aguero....what a player. Him & Ramsey my two players of the season so far. As for Bale, he's already scored & assisted more goals at this point of the season than last year at Spurs apparently.

Agree on Aguero. Best foward in the league imo. Many compare him to Romario and I would agree with that. Top player.
Bale is starting to hit form now. He will be tearing La Liga defences apart weekly once he fully settles.
United were pretty poor but would have won comfortably if they had their shooting boots on.
Young's dive was pathetic though. You know you've got a major issue with a player when the only things he seems to be useful at is winning penalties by going down at every opportunity.
Can't believe someone like Fergie forked out almost £20 million on him.