Champions League Group Stages

First topic message reminder :

The draw is tonight and we could have some potentially crazy strong groups, Manchester City have a 50% chance of being in the same group as Bayern Munich or Barcelona.

What is the tie everybody wants to see in the group stages?

Basel beat Chelsea twice but I expect Chelsea will get the job done at home in the final game. Strange old group that one.

Job done by Arsenal, good performance from Wilshere.

Two moderate, but oddly successful performances by English clubs tonight.

Arsenal did enough to win against a rather disinterested looking Marseille and Chelsea contrived to qualify for the knockout phase whilst losing to a team that simply wanted it more.

I'm glad I'm only paying a cable subscription to watch games like these, and not stumping up to get into the ground.

The same people who slagged Ramsey mercilessly started slagging Jacky Boy and he has played exceptionally well the last few weeks, looks like they will have to find yet another target. He set Ozil up for a gilt edged chance and was all over the place. Arsenal really should have scored 4 or 5. One thing I don't like about the way Arsenal have been playing is that they have wasted a lot of good possession and some golden chances to score many more. Still the defense again looked really strong and Szec made a couple of wonderful saves and had a great if uneventful match. Ozil played poorly, missed a penalty and wasted a couple of wonderful balls by Ramsey and Wilshere. Got to be happy 4 clean sheets in 5 matches though.

Well Arsenal time it well.

When Ozil goes off the boil Wilshire picks up his game.

Nice to know Arsenal have 3 players that can step up and run the show offensively.

None of Wright, Dixon or Keane could say a nice word about Arsenal in commentary before the game,

Midfielder's win you things- Mark my words Arsenal will win plenty in the next few years.

Basel beat Chelsea again!!

NOt surprised as Yakin has this thing about beating PL teams. I have no idea why a club over here hasn't gone for him yet. He has potential to be a very good manager.

I t looks like all 4 PL clubs should qualify this year- after last years blip it was needed.

mystiroakey wrote:Well Arsenal time it well.

When Ozil goes off the boil Wilshire picks up his game.

Nice to know Arsenal have 3 players that can step up and run the show offensively.

None of Wright, Dixon or Keane could say a nice word about Arsenal in commentary before the game,

Midfielder's win you things- Mark my words Arsenal will win plenty in the next few years.

Basel beat Chelsea again!!

NOt surprised as Yakin has this thing about beating PL teams. I have no idea why a club over here hasn't gone for him yet. He has potential to be a very good manager.

I t looks like all 4 PL clubs should qualify this year- after last years blip it was needed.

I am happy with their season so far, 4 points clear after 12 games in the league and they are through again as long as they don't lose in Napoli by 3 goals or more. I agree that ARsenal will win some trophies in the next few years if not something this year. That midfield is clearly the class of the premier league and that is saying a lot with Chelsea and City in the mix. I still think one of these 3 teams are going to win it and have about an equal chance to. Still Arsenal if they win the group, which looks like it may happen will avoid all the English teams and any of the group winners. At that stage I would favor them against any of the other second place teams. Really wasteful today, they should of scored 4 or 5.

Chelsea under Rafa:

Basel 1-2 Chelsea
Chelsea 3-1 Basel

Chelsea under Jose:

Basel 1-0 Chelsea
Chelsea 1-2 Basel



PS. Good to see Kaka looking sharp again. Its a shame that injuries have blighted his career. What a player he was when during his original stay in Milan!

Haven't seen a ramsey slagging post recently but guess arsenal fans just want arguments for the sake of it. Agree, wilshere played well but its his fitness which is the concern, not his ability. My issue with wilshere is his ankle injury recurrence n the fact his intricate style of passing football he plays for arsenal, doesn't suit england or the players he plays with there. Marseille had no real motivation n have been the whipping boys, hence why 12 points still isn't enough for qualification as everyone has 6 pts off them

A fit Wilshire can only help England. I see no reason why he cant.

mystiroakey wrote:A fit Wilshire can only help England. I see no reason why he cant.

His fitness is a big issue though.........really hope he stays fit - he will be the type of player needed in Brazil

Munich look pretty much unbeatable although credit to CSKA they created a huge amount of chances and on a more clinical day could have tied this match up. No one is going to stop Bayern this year in Europe or Germany. I have watched Barca in the champions league and they no way match up with the versatility of this Munich side. A record 10 straight wins in the champions league for Munich, last loss to certain North london club in Munich. Short of a miracle I can't see anyone stopping them. Gotze, Ribery, and Robben are just a sight to behold in that midfield. Franky did not play today but Goetze scored a wonder goal driving the ball into the box around 3 CSKA defenders.

United playing very well

It's rather convenient that Kagawa playing as AM has come to life and look better then he has at old trafford in months

Giggs is just different gravy

Best we've played all season, kind of shows up the bundesliga being hailed as the best league in the world really. Jones in midfield is a necessity now, we look so much better when he plays there and Giggs at 40 well he can still pick out a pass.

Good to see giggs still playing so well. One in the eye for all of those saying he is too old.

Yep as I have been saying jones needs to play DM, and he is also exactly what England need in that position as well.

Rooney ran the game again. 4 assists!!!

United were outstanding tonight, best performance of there's all season, also the best English side performance in the Champions League all season. United seem to look a lot better when Tom Clerverly isn't playing. They also have a good record when Phil Jones is playing DM, he was outstanding against Real Madrid last season, and he had Ozil in his back pocket against Arsenal a few weeks ago. 

Standard win for City, nice to see them finally get through the group stages of this competition.

Ozil has been off the boil for a while now.

Pity we dont have another midfielder, jones playing well there - just wonder if he would be a better centre half in the long run.

Phil jones could have the stature and presence of a Keane or Viera

Not many of them about any more. I would strengthen your defence and make him first choice DM

Long term don't know if he is good enough on the ball. Certainly potentially a great player, I just wonder if e would be better at centre half.

Name a player that has put in better DM performances recently?

The only player I would have over Jones in that position from the PL is Kompany.

Surely it would be easier to source a good centre half over a world class DM(which is what you are going to need to replace jones on current form in that position)

Obviously having jones in that position also sidelines cleverly- you kill two birds with one stone

Jones also dominated arsenals midfield for the first half. We have a great record with him there. He's physical, quick and has a good defensive mind. If he improves on the ball he's got potential to be a top class midfielder

mystiroakey wrote:
Obviously having jones in that position also sidelines cleverly- you kill two birds with one stone

Amen

That was one of the worst performances i've ever seen from Leverkusen. Agree, difference in quality n depth of the EPL shows massively in the Champions League. You can read whatever you want into that result but it hasn't solved United's issues domestically. Giggs running the premier club competition at 40, tells you everything you need to know about this group.

9-1 on aggregate over both games against the second best side (placed) in Bundesliga....

As for the Champions League, i won't get interesting until the QF, seeing as the big clubs are going to win their groups. The only interesting second round game will be whoever gets Juventus, if they finish second. Wake me up for the QF's & the business end.

Not sure about that john (last paragraph), city will also be finishing second so good chance of getting one of the top clubs and ac milan are no mugs either

AC Milan are a joke side, up against quality they will be found out. Just look at them in Serie A. Dortmund defensively are not good enough this year without Subotic & Hummels long term. Forgot about City, be interesting to see how they fare. Yeah, I guess there might be a couple of good games in the second round but it's the QF's where the real big match-ups happen.

there will be 2 of Dortmund, bayern, citeh or arsernal in second spot mate.

I know its a tough ask but a 2-3 result in Munich will put Citeh through top.

Its a possibility.

mystiroakey wrote:I know its a tough ask but a 2-3 result in Munich will put Citeh through top.

Its a possibility.

bayern won 3-1 at city, meaning city need to beat them by 3-0 or better. not much of a possibility if you ask me, especially with citys away form

no they only need to win 3-2 or 2-0

I am not sure how it works but i got the info from ESPN

"Group D

Remaining fixtures: Plzen vs. CSKA, Bayern vs. Man City
Has any team qualified yet? Bayern Munich and Man City both qualified on Match Day 4. Bayern will top the group unless they lose to Man City by more than one goal, or a one-goal scoreline of 3-2 or higher.
Who can still qualify? For the Europa League, Plzen must win at home to CSKA Moscow 1-0, 2-1 or by more than one goal.

Read more at http://www.espn.co.uk/football/sport/story/261327.html#rbEYKovU1hwx2XSd.99"

i have always understood that champions league places are done on head to head record, then goal difference. both of which bayern have a comfortable lead not sure how a 3-2 gets them through in any format

my understanding espn have got it wrong, think sky also mentioned the 3-0 scoreline

taken from uefa offical website:

"If two or more teams are equal on points on completion of the group
matches, the following criteria are applied to determine the rankings (in
descending order):
a) higher number of points obtained in the group matches played among the
teams in question;
b) superior goal difference from the group matches played among the teams
in question; 11
c) higher number of goals scored in the group matches played among the
teams in question;
d) higher number of goals scored away from home in the group matches
played among the teams in question;
e) if, after having applied criteria a) to d), two teams still have an equal
ranking, criteria a) to d) are reapplied to determine the final ranking of the
two teams. If this procedure does not lead to a decision, criteria f) to h)
apply;
f) superior goal difference from all group matches played;
g) higher number of goals scored from all group matches played;
h) higher number of coefficient points accumulated by the club in question,
as well as its association, over the previous five seasons (see
paragraph 9.02).
7.07 The eight group-winners and eight runners-u"

It doesnt add up does it. I think you are right and ESPN is wrong

How shocking were Leverkusen?! Good grief!!

Great win for United though. Rooney and Kagawa looked good together. Wonder if Moyes is going to stick to this combo even when RVP returns.

Giggs still instrumental.

City doing the business as expected but need to sort of their defence if they are going to reach the latter stages of the competition.

And good to see Bale showing that he hasnt lost practice of taking free kicks.

John wrote:That was one of the worst performances i've ever seen from Leverkusen. Agree, difference in quality n depth of the EPL shows massively in the Champions League. You can read whatever you want into that result but it hasn't solved United's issues domestically. Giggs running the premier club competition at 40, tells you everything you need to know about this group.

9-1 on aggregate over both games against the second best side (placed) in Bundesliga....

As for the Champions League, i won't get interesting until the QF, seeing as the big clubs are going to win their groups. The only interesting second round game will be whoever gets Juventus, if they finish second. Wake me up for the QF's & the business end.

Yes when people talk down the premier league and talk up the Bundesliga they should remember these type of results. It looks very much like all 4 English sides are going to make it through this season giving the Premier league 25 percent of the membership in the round of sixteen. To me Leverkusen would struggle to finish 7 or 8th in the premier league, I can't see Everton getting beat that badly against United or any of the top clubs. That being said a great performance by United, Rooney again was the focus of everything United where doing in the attack. Munich and Dortmund are strong but there is just a huge drop off in quality from top 2 to everyone else and there is a big gap between Munich and Dortmund this season as well.


I really can't see anyone beating Munich frankly they look by some margin to be the class of the competition. Although Real Madrid beating Gala 5-1 after they went down to 10 men was quite a performance in its own right.

Does anybody think United might go further in the Champions League this year as a result of their poor league form? I know it sounds stupid, but both Liverpool and Chelsea won the Champions League when they underachieved in the league as there was an element of focusing on Europe?

I think it's a fair point, Crimey. Almost as if they play more expansively in Europe and are less affected by the pressure of EPL week in week out.

A could Euro cup run could save Moyes' bacon....

I think we'll get well beat when up against any decent side in the knockout stages imo. We've played well in Europe but we just don't have the side to compete. However, never say never!

I think it's more to do with the fact it's a shocking group of low quality - that's made United look good. The tempo n quality in some of the group games has been so poor, especially from Leverkusen & Sociedad. When United face higher intensity EPL games, they've been found out massively. If they win the group, they might edge through past the second round with a lucky draw from a runner up, but in the QF's, it will be another story when you face the Bayern's, Barcelona's or Madrid's.

Tonight should be interesting though, if they lose, then they face a big team in the second round & it would be goodnight.

Man citeh V Munich is going to be interesting tonight!!

Not if Manuel drops majority of the first team in preparation for Arsenal on Saturday morning. I couldnt see City beating Bayern by two or three anyway, with the first team. EPL demands are such in comparison to Bundesliga that Manuel will almost certainly have to rest some players.

cant see munich v city being any good, both know there through and will rest players, city know they cant realistically win the group. it will be like the dortmund v city game for me which was very poor

We will see- I can see Citeh trying there hardest to win as a marker and Munich wanting to hold on to there unbeaten record.

I think they will put out strong sides, although it's extremely unlikely Man City will top the group they have to give it a go otherwise there will be every chance they'll be out in the next round.

It's funny in this season's CL normally you can name quite a few teams that have a good chance to win it or at least a number that have played better than expected but i can hardly think of any. Bayern still look the benchmark but I've watched Barca twice and they just look so fragile not only at the back but they struggle to create anything against decent defenses, Real as we know are pretty much the most free scoring side but again can't defend and when a team puts up strong resistance and can keep the ball like Juve they really struggle. Arsenal have ground their way to a great position and they should win a tough group, Athletico have been the only team that have really played better than i thought but judging by their La Liga performances the last two years it's not much of a surprise. Man United's whole group seems more like they are the best of a bad bunch, Chelsea played well against Schalke but were outplayed twice by Basel which doesn't do their credentials much. BVB pretty meh all season frankly other than the start, quarters at best for them, likewise Juve and Milan. PSG have the classic French theme of either being brilliant or crap so really it's wide open, if somehow Bayern can be knocked out then it's really anybodies. Anyway a few "contenders" can still be knocked out in the next two nights so I'll reserve judgement until then.

looks like a city second string, could get a beating here if bayern take it seriously

SO citeh not bothering- shame

Their playing Arsenal at the weekend so it's sensible on their part.

Bayern 1-0 Citeh - Muller light yoghurt

Phil Jones already causing huge problems. Great player. 

Why do i get the feeling City are in for a long night!

United a couple of inches from going 0-1 down their. defense parted like the see there

Bayern 2-0 - "Super Mario" Gotze

Yeah City are in for a long night.

United looking shakey at the back.