Lax All Black Pack Cracks But Shag Backs Dagg To Drag Match Back.

First topic message reminder :

Wow. Just wow. South Africa look to be in awesome form.

Granted Australian rugby is in its most miserable state for fifty years, but there is no disguising how intimidating  this Springbok side is.

The Boks have now married their power game with a rapier precision in the Back line and the experience to know when to switch modes. Add Morne Steyn's siege boot and back in form long range goal kicking and you have a serious unit that will be tough to beat. 

Normally poor tourists, South Africa easily outmuscled a fragile looking Australia and clinched a convincing win at the bastion of Australian resistance, the parochial Suncorp stadium.

In this kind of form I can see South Africa ending new Zealand's long run of success at Eden Park. Especially with captain Richie out injured and Dan Carter out of form.

Hats off to Heyneke Meyer. I was a detractor and I put my hand up and say I was wrong.

Most impressive is south Africa's command at the breakdown. Defensively they must have the best turn over rate in the rugby championship and on attack they can maintain pressure through numerous phases and patiently wait their chance to pounce.  Just awesome stuff.

Cyril wrote:

Biltong wrote:There has been far too many "mistakes and incompetencies" against the Boks in important tournaments of late.

So I give myself the right to over react.

So you think there's a vendetta against SA rugby and the referees are paid off/biased?

read it as you wish, but the fact is we get the short end of the stick more than any other team.

Biltong wrote:

Cyril wrote:

Biltong wrote:There has been far too many "mistakes and incompetencies" against the Boks in important tournaments of late.

So I give myself the right to over react.

So you think there's a vendetta against SA rugby and the referees are paid off/biased?

read it as you wish, but the fact is we get the short end of the stick more than any other team.

I think most fans think that about their team. It's human nature to think the world's against you. We tend not to remember the times we get the lucky or the rub of the green. These things balance themselves out.

No mate, things don't balance out. That is just nonsense, we got nailed by Bryce Lawrence in the RWC, now we get ailed by Poite when we are challenging for the trophy.

The race is now over. Another trophy influenced by incompetence.

I am so over this I am losing interest in rugby.

Cyril wrote:

Biltong wrote:

Cyril wrote:

Biltong wrote:There has been far too many "mistakes and incompetencies" against the Boks in important tournaments of late.

So I give myself the right to over react.

So you think there's a vendetta against SA rugby and the referees are paid off/biased?

read it as you wish, but the fact is we get the short end of the stick more than any other team.

I think most fans think that about their team. It's human nature to think the world's against you. We tend not to remember the times we get the lucky or the rub of the green. These things balance themselves out.

More like New Zealand tend to get the rub of the green with referee's all the bloody time!

Biltong wrote:No mate, things don't balance out. That is just nonsense, we got nailed by Bryce Lawrence in the RWC, now we get ailed by Poite when we are challenging for the trophy.

The race is now over. Another trophy influenced by incompetence.

I am so over this I am losing interest in rugby.

I know it's always galling losing but it's unfortunate a big decision goes against you. Some blame has to be laid at the players feet for making a mistake for the 2nd call surely? It's also not decided yet is it? It's still in your own hands. Refs make mistakes, normally less than players but they get the ultimate blame. I'd prefer 1 big 1 than several niggly little ones. You'll probably find any other sport is going to be influenced by officials anyway!

Poor stuff from Poite, but I feel a bit sorry for referees as a breed these days. Every decision is pored over in minute, replayed detail by supporters and ex-players, the refs are grudgingly ignored when they have a good game and are crucified when they make errors. Which, being human, they will.

Even cricket umpires don't receive the type of derision that is the lot of their rugby brethren, at all levels of the game. Instead of the smart-ass criticism from ex-players, it would be a good idea if some of them put their hand up to train as referees after their playing days are over, rather like a lot of Test cricket umpires have done. At least they won't be accused of 'not knowing the game'. Of course, they don't, tacitly acknowledging that this has become an almost impossible job in the professional era. Who wants to be an Aunt Sally?

We're therefore left with people who do the job because they enjoy the game and have to endure dog's abuse in consequence. It's a slippery slope, which has been getting icier since that day when one partisan decided that he'd had enough of a referee's interpretation and that the way forward was to attack him physically. It'll happen again before too long.

Meanwhile, I wouldn't be desperately surprised if one day, referees decided to withdraw their labour just before an important set of international matches. The rest of us will then have the leisure to judge whether the degree of opprobrium that we routinely hurl at the poor sods is really justified.

captain carrantuohil wrote:Poor stuff from Poite, but I feel a bit sorry for referees as a breed these days. Every decision is pored over in minute, replayed detail by supporters and ex-players, the refs are grudgingly ignored when they have a good game and are crucified when they make errors. Which, being human, they will.

 
That's exactly what was disappointing with Poite's performance today, he had the opportunity to replay every detail and pore over it yet still got it wrong.  He wasn't forced to make a spur of the moment call and then have to endure people criticising it due to them having technology available which he didn't.

But that is why we expanded the responsibility of the TMO. To help the referee get things right.

It was clear to most people watching, and apparently to the TMO, there was no penalty of any kind on the first 'yellow'. And, some people might disagree, but I didn't see any penalty with the second one either.

Whether the extra good fortune going towards the ABs or bad juju for the Boks, the calls were wrong and ruined a potentially fantastic match. I got up at 3:30 this morning here in New Jersey to watch great Rugby. Poite and the TMO ruined my morn. That said, the Boks were still very, very good playing for almost 50 minutes against the ABs with 14 men.

Well, if you're after an automaton to do the refereeing, I'm sure you'll get your wish in the fullness of time. Don't know how enjoyable it's going to be, mind. With humans involved, you will always get mistakes, the odd one of which will, unhappily, have a disproportionate effect on the outcome of the game. Nature of the beast, even with all the technology in the world involved.

Think we've reached the point already where the game is a pale, stop-start imitation of what it should be with TMO calls taking minutes to reach a conclusion that isn't always satisfactory. If we accept that there will be errors, let's just go back to the time where the ref was the sole arbiter of fact, apart from line calls (try or touch), rather than this hopeless compromise, which pleases no-one.

Biltong wrote:No mate, things don't balance out. That is just nonsense, we got nailed by Bryce Lawrence in the RWC, now we get ailed by Poite when we are challenging for the trophy.

The race is now over. Another trophy influenced by incompetence.

I am so over this I am losing interest in rugby.

Bryce had a history for putting his whistle in his pocket in big games. If SA couldn't adapt to his more lenient rulings then that is their problem, not Bryce's.

As for Poite, maybe a bigwig from the NZRU could give him a gold watch...

Yes Dallym, I have heard that kne many times, still doesn't change the fact that Australia never conceded one penalty in their 22 where they soent a considerable time of the match defending their line.

The bottom of International Career on Dan Carter's wiki page currently reads "Carter is the only player that is not allowed to be tackled during a rugby game, according to IRB rules"

Knowsit17 wrote:The bottom of International Career on Dan Carter's wiki page currently reads "Carter is the only player that is not allowed to be tackled during a rugby game, according to IRB rules"

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dan_Carter

 

Aint Carters fault the ref is hopeless. Blame the NH reffing establishment, or lack of it, if anything.

poor guidance from the tmo and poite mumbling no arms, offside, any incidents after the tackle blah blah just confused the situation and it was almost as if Poite felt he had to do something, and did the wrong thing. I thought Du Plessis was offside there if anything, nothing else. He plays a very physical game and if anything should have known better not to stick his elbow our after the first yellow.

On the game a very physical encounter illustrated by our injury list from the hits alone. Du Plessis absence for 35 minutes versus DC's absence for 5 or so weeks may have been the trade off there. Thats rugby. Habanas tearing off straight into Dagg was a bit stupid as well with the ball nowhere near him- at least Dagg was looking up at the ball. Dumb rugby and has given us another player out.

Etzebeth was fantastic, possibly the best lock in the game and at 21 will go ob to be one of SA's greats. The other Du Plessis let his side down with the going too high on Read and missing Conrad Smith before he put Retalick in- who incidentally had a top game.

The NZ subs played like the true pro's they are- Barrett, Piatau, Luatua, Faumuiana all chiming in well.

A good match ruined by the ref mixup with SA in it at the point Du Plessis went off, and finishing strongly nearly scoring at the end. Overall NZ looked slightly better and probably would have scraped it, the point being that the Boks were denied the opportunity to say otherwise.

Duty281 wrote:
More like New Zealand tend to get the rub of the green with referee's all the bloody time!

If it wasn't for the occaisonal bout of food poisoning they would be unbeatable.

true maes...good point....the 'If' I mean...its singularly responsible for more losses in test rugby than anything else...

maestegmafia wrote:

Duty281 wrote:
More like New Zealand tend to get the rub of the green with referee's all the bloody time!

If it wasn't for the occasional bout of food poisoning they would be unbeatable.

Thought the game had great intensity. Also agree that the refereeing wasn't great. The game was effectively over just after 1/2 time. Surprised by the Bismarks yellow and the first try. I wonder how much of it relates to communications issues between the ref and video ref. Poite went upstairs both times. We put the blame completely on him. I've seen plenty of calls come back that say "I couldn't see the ball grounded" or "I couldn't see any foul play in the tackle". He's not a native English speaker I think he needed clear/unambiguous communication from his assistant. The only reason I say this, Is I read different interpretations of English saying depending on nationality (I.e. the literal vs actual intent). If I was a bok fan I'd be feeling hard done by with both calls.

I don't think the AB's will enamored either. Also can't work out our Reid's yellow at the end (although the game was gone by then due to Bismarks red). Far more concerning was that the penalty/free kick count was almost 2:1 to the boks. The boks were in many respects more in sync with Poite (especially at the ruck). There is no excuse for the AB's because we've had Poite 3 times since the world cup so we just need to adjust.

We started calling the 2nd half scrum penalties in a drunken state in the pub, based solely on position of the field and possession. We were right every time. Nonu was an idiot and deserved to binned. Bismark was very, very unlucky on the first yellow (to say the least), but not so much the second. If I was a bok fan I'd be also be asking questions of him (albeit wrongly convicted, he was a on yellow and needed to be careful). Lambies try at the end was great.

Lastly, Jo'berg's going to be intense.

Biltong wrote:

Cyril wrote:

Biltong wrote:There has been far too many "mistakes and incompetencies" against the Boks in important tournaments of late.

So I give myself the right to over react.

So you think there's a vendetta against SA rugby and the referees are paid off/biased?

read it as you wish, but the fact is we get the short end of the stick more than any other team.

Can't help but point out that when NZ have been stitched up by the ref, the response is "swings and roundabouts and get over it" when it's SA then it's a conspiracy.

Look I've been campaigning for absolute months about the lack of quality in NH refereeing and refereeing in general and the fact that all international refs are white men suspiciously points to the entire process being broken. But nobody is interested in this discussion until their team is ass raped by one of these guys.

I agree GE, everyone could see that this game had the makings of being the ultimate test of the year,(1st playing second on the IRB rankings).

When The All Blacks are playing South Africa, surely some alarm bells must go off in Dublin, that maybe  it would be a good idea for the best neutral referee in the World to be given the appointment? Why wasnt Steve Walsh given this assignment?

 The players and coaches are performing rugby at a far higher level than Mr. Poite can even imagine. I liken his performance as that of a two year old toddler running around with a hand grenade with the pin pulled out.

For a game that should have a been a showcase of rugby being played at the highest level, it was a ridiculous farce broadcast around the World to millions of viewers.

Lucky for all concerned we have a rematch in a few weeks time in Johannesburg, and Nigel Owens will get the opportunity to show us that he is the best referee in the Northern Hemisphere it shouldnt be hard to do.

blackcanelion wrote:

maestegmafia wrote:

Duty281 wrote:
More like New Zealand tend to get the rub of the green with referee's all the bloody time!

If it wasn't for the occasional bout of food poisoning they would be unbeatable.

Thought the game had great intensity. Also agree that the refereeing wasn't great. The game was effectively over just after 1/2 time. Surprised by the Bismarks yellow and the first try. I wonder how much of it relates to communications issues between the ref and video ref. Poite went upstairs both times. We put the blame completely on him. I've seen plenty of calls come back that say "I couldn't see the ball grounded" or "I couldn't see any foul play in the tackle". He's not a native English speaker I think he needed clear/unambiguous communication from his assistant. The only reason I say this, Is I read different interpretations of English saying depending on nationality (I.e. the literal vs actual intent). If I was a bok fan I'd be feeling hard done by with both calls.

I don't think the AB's will enamored either. Also can't work out our Reid's yellow at the end (although the game was gone by then due to Bismarks red). Far more concerning was that the penalty/free kick count was almost 2:1 to the boks. The boks were in many respects more in sync with Poite (especially at the ruck). There is no excuse for the AB's because we've had Poite 3 times since the world cup so we just need to adjust.

We started calling the 2nd half scrum penalties in a drunken state in the pub, based solely on position of the field and possession. We were right every time. Nonu was an idiot and deserved to binned. Bismark was very, very unlucky on the first yellow (to say the least), but not so much the second. If I was a bok fan I'd be also be asking questions of him (albeit wrongly convicted, he was a on yellow and needed to be careful). Lambies try at the end was great.

Lastly, Jo'berg's going to be intense.

Some suggestion around this morning that the elbow to the windpipe might have warranted a red on its own regardless of the first yellow.

Look on reflection the Boks chose to play an intimidating physical style, and like TeamNZs near capsize yesterday they pushed it a bit far into the wind and copped some sin bins. You can't go out to physically overpower your opposition and be so abrasive and then be shocked when you get players in the bin. 

Even though the DC incident probably didnt deserve a card he was a mile offside and the kind of style SA like to adopt does yield a reputation for thuggery. So it's a case of guilt by association unfortunately. 

That does take away from Poite's pitiful display - about as far out if his depth as old Wayne Barnes was back in 2007. Although rather than freeze like a possum in headlights he we t bezerk with his cards. 

I want to see a statement from the IRB about his actions and the state of the games adjudication.

You can justify this all you want, you can make every action a Springbok commit Red cardable, you can justify every tackle we make as illegal.

It changes nothing.

What I can promise you, is Ellispark will be a hell hole, the next two weeks, the Boks may not say anything in the press, they will take all that pented up anger out on their next two opponents, if you think you saw physical and brutal, wait for next week.

It is now, the boks against every official and team in the world.

you may think it is retaliatory, you may think it is wrong, but these boks after what happened in the past two years, will be focused like never before.

The biggest game is the next where NZ have to visit Jo'burg

GloriousEmpire wrote:

Biltong wrote:

Cyril wrote:

Biltong wrote:There has been far too many "mistakes and incompetencies" against the Boks in important tournaments of late.

So I give myself the right to over react.

So you think there's a vendetta against SA rugby and the referees are paid off/biased?

read it as you wish, but the fact is we get the short end of the stick more than any other team.

Can't help but point out that when NZ have been stitched up by the ref, the response is "swings and roundabouts and get over it" when it's SA then it's a conspiracy.

Look I've been campaigning for absolute months about the lack of quality in NH refereeing and refereeing in general and the fact that all international refs are white men suspiciously points to the entire process being broken. But nobody is interested in this discussion until their team is ass raped by one of these guys.

Classy.

Biltong wrote:You can justify this all you want, you can make every action a Springbok commit Red cardable, you can justify every tackle we make as illegal.

It changes nothing.

What I can promise you, is Ellispark will be a hell hole, the next two weeks, the Boks may not say anything in the press, they will take all that pented up anger out on their next two opponents, if you think you saw physical and brutal, wait for next week.

It is now, the boks against every official and team in the world.

you may think it is retaliatory, you may think it is wrong, but these boks after what happened in the past two years, will be focused like never before.

There's nothing wrong with focus biltong, but there is a useful phrase that says criminality occurs when ambition  outstretches ability.

Lets hope that SA find a way to express their frustration in ways that are within the laws of the game and that we have a contest of rugby ability and not a descent into thuggery.

I have no doubt that they will rise to the occasion in the spirit if sporting rivalry that is warranted. The last thing we'd want to see is another 14 or 13 man mismatch or any more unnecessary  season ending injuries.

It is the IRB that must be held accountable and not the heads and arms of springbok opponents.

The send off aside, credit must go to the sheer number of ABs that stepped up in this battle. Cane, Read, Retalick especially were sublime. Those required earlier than usual to sub- Barrett, Piatau both adding impact as soon as they came on. Despite getting constantly bashed they held and relied on their skill and tenacity to see the match through.

For the boks Du P was supreme and sorely missed. But his presence wouldnt have made up for the inadequacies of so many- the other du Plessis who simply cant tackle, Pienar, who cant pass, Steyn, who is limited and showed it, Le Roux, who despite promise was quiet and kirschner again terrible.

The tries we scored werent due to overlaps as you'd expect with a man up- they were straight through the defensive lines. Every single AB played well, some better than others. The ABs were warned of the impending bok threat since the oz game, and collectively they all responded- even as they were being knocked out of the game, others stood in and stood up.

The return match in JBurg will be a chance to prove the Boks can match the ABs, but theyll need to improve significantly in some areas.

Such a difficult match to read.... red cards have a massive impact on games, especially those that go on for a half or more. I thought the boks were very competitive and looked like they had the NZ pack on the backfoot at the beginning.

Defensively they were a little weak mind. Too many broken tackles. Barrett bursting through 3-4 players was as much to do with the boks awful tackling as it was his skill (and the 2 NZ shadowers he ran inbetween to break the line in the first place). Carded or not those things are not acceptable. The technique of the side looked like one who looked only to smash guys not create a concrete barrier which cannot be broken.

Jannie DP was poor. Tackled high meaning he could be bounced off... had he just gone for the tackle low and proper he would have succeeded. I see it a little too often.

Whenever you see a big guy get bounced you look at chaps like Neil Back who would miss 1-2 tackles per year, they never smashed the guy but they held the line and thats more important then trying to secure a steal on smashing a guy backwards.

I think Coenie deserves a chance in his place.

yeah the defence was strange. Read got through fairly easily in both his tries as well. Its a lot of the other things that were missing from previous matches as well. The passing and catching was way off, Habana and le roux were reduced to spectators and of all things the ABs were able to score through the middle.

The pressure the ABs put on- look at le rouxs back pass to kirchner in goal after a kick through- 4 players tackled kirchner simultaneously.The cleanouts also.

The yellow on DP definitely had an impact but merely having back for 80 wont assume parity at Ellis, the ABs know a lot more about this bok side now and will expose it all if the boks skill levels dont improve.

I think the Le Roux passback was worth it myself. He was going to get nailed but knew Kirchner had a chance at least... it didn't pay off and thankfully he held onto the ball but its one of those small margins decisions which can make or break a game.

I think the better side won, we'll never know but the boks tackling showed they aren't up to speed yet. To beat NZ England showed the type of game you had to play... you have to blitz the ABs, ruffle their feathers not just compete or be a little less strong. Take them off their running game and make them force it.

They didin't utilise Alberts enough on the break... set him up, don't just pass him the ball and hope he beats his man. Get speed in his legs before he hits contact into the backline.
I think they can win the next match, their set piece was strong, surprisingly strong without Kruger at lineout but they have to regain their famed intensity and also be far more astute in their tackling.
Kirchner looked like a lost puppy at times.... a little bit left for class.

yep gona be a classic. Mccaw might be back but some dont look good. good thing is our seconds- and thirds in barrets case- are really stepping up but ideally most caps on the field is the general rule if possible.

The best thing going for the boks out of all this is the way theyve taken this all in and gone back without a word against anyone. That is a key difference between this side and 2011. They realise its only on the field that things make a difference. They still have a sniff at the title and thats what theyll focus on.

They have areas to work on and just want to get on with it. That attitude, combined with the progress this year and the learning from this will make them that much tougher...good to see.

I think a the title will be very difficult. NZ will probably get a bonus point vs. Argentina but its away from home so it shouldn't be a whitewash.

SA need to beat AUS very well. Had it been in the veld I would be more confident. Against tier 1 sides (AUS, NZ, ENG & FRA) they have a good record at newlands, 9 from 14 but they have only ever broken 30 points once, its not an arena where the boks build massive wins. What they don't want is to then play NZ and have to go for a bonus point win.

They have a +19 points buffer with NZ currently. That will shorten and probably turn into a deficit come the last round. Anything from -20 is achievable given if they beat NZ by +10 points it will be successful.

Given that I would back the Boks to beat AUS with a points difference at least within 40 points of NZ vs. ARG in Argentina.... but can they get that bonus point.... in fact they have never secured a bonus point in the 3N at newlands, only scoring above 4 once vs. tier 1 sides since 1992 (FRA 2010).

If they can achieve that I'd back them to win the RC. What a final game in store if the boks can get a bonus point win vs. AUS.

And a loss away to argie isnt the biggest upset in sport so they have that to look forward to as well. Just think this SA still has a mark to make this year one way or another.

I just think Engelbrecht is a little too weak for test rugby. Decent player but a bit of a liability in defence, not great in attack...i.e. a stopgap until a better player comes along. I myself think De Jong has been hard done by but he himself is a bit of a revolving door in defence.. but at least he has great attacking prowess.

Given he's the lynchpin of the defensively line I think it heavily weakens the boks.

I think the boks are perhaps 1 or 2 players shy of a world cup team challenging team to be honest. Once JP Pietersen, Frans Steyn, Jaque Fourie & Johan Goosen come back I think there will be more balance.

The Boks won't win the RC this year.

First of all making up extra points to keep within distance of Nz is going to be hard.

And then I have seen enough to realise SA needs to attack more against NZ, but Meyer keeps on selecting the safe options at 9 and 10, and SA has some soul searching to do and figure out a way to get referees more on their side.

To say they must adapt to referees is no longer enough, we come second in the contact area like no other team, too hard, too quick, to this and too that, we get the short end of the stick.

how we are going to get referees to adjudicate on these matters fairly I don't know.

To be honest BB, given the boks play a backrow with an average weight of 115kg (around the same as most tier 1 front rows) and no player being above 6'4 (i.e. no player is heavy yet tall) then its no real surprise that they're suffering at the breakdown.

Without Bismarck the boks lose half their strength on the floor.

The replacement Kolisi is a tackle based player too... he isn't a fetcher or breakdown technician.

Meyer is playing one game plan... he has no plan B.

Wales believe you can win by having size mismatches in the bAcks.
South Africa and England believe you can win by having size mismatches in the forwards
Australia believe you can win by out pacing the opposition from 1-15
NZ believe you can win by maintaining a balance between strength and speed.

It's the three bears theory. So far "just right" is winning.

NZ is however assisted by a higher level of skill on average across each postion and all its requirements in comparison to the other sides. That makes things like combinations easier to build and gameplan options more flexible. Other sides have to make up for these deficiences in other areas- the boks place emphasis on the pack due to weaker backplay, oz the reverse.

That puts pressure on more individuals than others and when the strengths dont work for one reson or another the uphill battle becomes steeper.

Have agreed with Biltong on the attack thing for years and that has always been where the opportunities have been for SA. Not sure if its improving but until pouring resources into SA backplay becomes a 'priority' through SA rugby from bottom up we'll always be talking about the odd talented back on an individual basis rather than the culture of SA backlplay as a unit, a flavour. We've never seen that in any sense of continuity unless its against leser sides when it only comes after up front dominance.

Its always- Habana was great, Pieterson etc etc but never the Bok backs as a unit. That makes a huge difference, and again, put the current bok in front of the AB backline and imagine that as a side. That is the gap SA need to close.

The thing about last week is the ABs were given ample warning of the threat of this Bok side and prepared accordingly. The taking on of the Boks head on, the ability of the subs to fire as soon as they went on is an example of how the AB's are able to respond when they need to. Yes the Bok had a rotten call but at the same time I believe they were also stunned by the intensity. I'm much more confident about Ellis park now.

I wouldn't be Taylorman.

The pendulum will swing back and the All Blacks will be on the harsh end of some ridiculous decisions; mark my word. Although despite NZ fans being united with Springbok fans about Poite's refereeing travesty there will be no such sympathy for NZ. Mark my words there too: nobody will accept the poor calls are poor and the attitude will be "NZ refereed "properly" and "got what they deserved" and all that usual nonsense. 

I still suspect Australia will upset SA this weekend and hand the competition largely to NZ anyway.

GE, Australia is going to meet a Springbok team who is intent on proving a point.

Before the RC started I said South Africa will undisputedly prove they are the number 2 team in the world.

Under PDV Australia had a great record against the bok team, the player power had an introspective look at how they did things and PDV didn't or couldn't help them see the error of their ways.

Heyneke Meyer has changed that, the style hasn't changed, I don't want it to. But our attack has improved immensely over the past 18 months.

The try scoring of our back line which out scores the forwards by 3-1 is proof of that.

Australia wants to upset the Boks, of course they do, otherwise why play the game?

But they will only come second next weekend, HM has their number, it has been proven that their forwards cannot match our pack.

Our pace out wide has been effective over the past 12 months and it is only getting better.

thus far this year we have had a good game, followed by a bad game, followed by a good game, etc etc.

The Wallabies will be on the receiving end of the backlash of the Boks, I give them zero chance of winning.

Yes they have talented individuals, but that is it. Their win over Argentina was as uninspiring as watching paint dry.

The boks have one challenge, consistency.

As for the All Blacks the week after.

I cannot wait.

People keep on talking about skills, finesse, balanced approach etc of the all Blacks, that is all true, but that is them, not us.

The greatest thing about the SA vs NZ rivalry is that we play different styles, something I would never want to see change.

It isn't our style that is the problem in beating the All BLacks, it is our mentality in not attacking them enough.

The marred game of the weekend proved a few things to me, after watching the game again, we have the game to beat the all BLacks, I have no doubt about it, we need to make personnel changes, and the first one will be Ruan Pienaar.

I know when goosen is back, he will be our incumbent number ten.

When Fourie du Preez finally retires, we have a load of attacking scrum halves like Piet v Zyl, Sarel Pretorius and Jaco Reinach that will alongside Goosen make a complete difference in the manner our backline will attack.

Ball will be flatter, faster and our play will be more creative, add Willie le Roux, Jan serfontein, Paul Jordaan to that backline with Lambie playing 15 and back up for Goosen, our attack will gain the unpredictability it currently doesn't have.

However our approach to the game will never change, and I hope it doesn't

What people don't get outside SA, is our culture towards rugby is to man up.

I have come to accept that the world see it as bullying, and I don't give two hoots about it.

We have physicality in abundance, we love to tackle the toffee out of opponents, I guess they do too, we get the short end of the stick, and that OK.

We will need to learn how to deal with it, and SARU must make a stink every time we get carded unfairly, they must make a point of giving the IRB hell every time they make a mistake.

Why should we change our approach to the game?

Anyway getting back to this year, this year is about consolidating 2nd place, next year before the World cup in 2015 is the time to challenge Nz home and away.

I don't subscribe to this theory that the only way we will beat NZ is by emulating their skills and finesse, that is not who we are.

Our style has been the most successful against NZ than any other country, the games we play, even when losing against NZ is the toughest games they face.

That tells me we have the goods to beat them, we need a few tweaks on attack to put more pressure on them for longer periods of the game, Morne Steyn and Ruan Pienaar isn't going to do that as well as a couple of other players in SA.

Meyer is playing the waiting game, he will give Lambie a chance in November again at 10, and Goosen will come back next year.

All the criticism in the world about our physicality etc is not going to change that ever.

Go type in Liam Messam on your search engine, then go to images, and you will see a fend very similar to Bismarcks, no I am not saying Bismarck's fend was not cardable, but have a look at the exact same fend employed by Messam, only difference is Bismarck turned and his elbow hit the neck area, Messam stayed straight on hence his fore arm hit the English player in the neck.

Difference, timing.

Every one plays hard, but if they want to complain about us playing hard.

Tough luck.

I thought you had given up on rugby biltong.

Had a weight on your chest BB???

Yeah, AUS should prepare for facing a wounded animal in a corner... revenge is to be sprung on the next person... no matter if they inflicted the initial blow or not.

Newlands helps AUS, its a difficult place to build scores.... its a smallish pitch, sea level so a bonus point win will be tricky... but I can't see AUS winning here. Morne will keep the scoreboard ticking over and with the boks being so dominant compared upfront nothing more than a bok victory is likely.

Cyril wrote:I thought you had given up on rugby biltong.

I have had a change in approach of how I see rugby.

There is a propensity for everyone wanting to follow and emulate the all Blacks.

that's them.

We are unique and have our own culture, some pirouette and dance, we don't. We use physical force and speed to carve opponents to pieces.

Why try to pretend we should be like everyone else?

We don't dance around players, a few of our backline player have a step, some offload, some have a few tricks up our sleeves, but by enlarge our culture is what it is, and there is no reason to apologise for that.

Thus far we have proven that our power and pace is good enough to beat everyone regularly, the All BLacks remain, and their turn will come after australia has had their turn.

Half of solving a problem is acceptance. I have accepted the way we play and I love the way we play, when you watch our Currie Cup or our Super rugby teams play each other it is ferocious and brutal, that is how we like our rugby, we score as many tries playing our way as any other nation does, bar the All Blacks, that doesn't mean our way is wrong, it just means they have been playing better rugby than us over the last 20 years.

It doesn't mean we must change, it means we must improve.

Simples.

fa0019 wrote:Had a weight on your chest BB???

Yeah, AUS should prepare for facing a wounded animal in a corner... revenge is to be sprung on the next person... no matter if they inflicted the initial blow or not.

Newlands helps AUS, its a difficult place to build scores.... its a smallish pitch, sea level so a bonus point win will be tricky... but I can't see AUS winning here. Morne will keep the scoreboard ticking over and with the boks being so dominant compared upfront nothing more than a bok victory is likely.

No weight FA, clarity of thought.

I only hope we get all the players on the field for the whole match or at the very least justification for any departures.

There was much to like and dislike about the NZ performance for me. Which is a step up from Dunedin where there was much more to dislike. I still think we didn't learn from last year with our ball protection. Too often NZ players for isolated and there were two or three Boks in good position standing over the ball and legitimately competing. We must clear out those players. Smith was often pressured getting the ball away as well. The line out is a big concern as Etzebeth is amazing and SA can drive off that ball with their forwards with their full complement of forwards. They don't need to score out wide. Tries like Read's and Cane's will also be difficult to score but for all the talk of SA's backs, I don't think we looked all that composed in the backs either. I liked some of the kicks in behind and Read fumbled on the line one such kick. But we seemed hesitant to pass out wide when numbers were there for us for fear of an intercept try. We need to figure out how to get in behind the Bok defensive line rushing up and then pass out wide into space.

There is talk of SA getting revenge at Ellis Park. Understandable and no doubt the Boks will be pumped up even more at home and our toughest test of the year just got a lot tougher. But if the players are anything like the fans the ABs will be pumped to prove they don't need decisions going against their opposition to win. I was still confident of a win but thought the bonus point would've been beyond us without Du Plessis off.

A bonus point win there would make a statement. The players will want just the win but I expect NZ to score tries as they will get conditions that suit them: hard, dry deck and day time footy.

To me the Arg performance sets up the Sa one. If we can play in a similar way to last year in Argentina we arrive probably fresher and confident in our backline. Similarly if SA is able to do what they did to Oz last year I think ironically that hurts their chances more as they will feel they can do the same in the backs what they did to Oz last year.

That said, if the Pumas engage NZ in a war of forward attrition and SA destroys Oz in the set piece and play to their obvious strengths then I think the contest will be a lot more even. I agree BB SA shouldn't move away from what they were troubling Nz with. A few minor positional tweaks and a little more variation but what they had in mind in Auckland was doing the job.

NZ were allowed to take the pressure off doing what they do best with SA down one. We did things well but we weren't that convincing in the things we wanted or expected to do well. That's why rediscovering our attacking mojo in Argentina is vital. If not we are the ones who will have to adapt our style more in my opinion.

It all starts at the pack, I see there are still many doubting the fitness of the SA forward pack, there is a theory that our pack doesn't last 80 minutes.

Meyer has proven that theory to be a fallacy this year, including the all Blacks we have outscored every opponent in the last quarter this year. That is due to an impact bench that truly makes and impact.

Alberts knows he only has to perform for max of 65 minutes, there after Kolisi with lots more pace and mobility comes on.

Vermeulen and Louw are 80 minute players, so no problem there.

I watched the Bok vs All Black match again, our forwards did very, very well when we had the same numbers, when Bismarck went off and Alberts had to be replaced by Strauss for the scrums we lost a lot of physicality in the breakdowns.

Who wouldn't when you lose Bismarck and Alberts?

But when we had parity in the numbers we immediately had a lift in intensity and possession.

The ellispark match will be 15 players all, I want to see NZ dominate that.

We missed a lot of tackles, but having one man down means you have to cover more territory, and desperate tackles will inevitably be missed as there is more space.

The All Blacks is not going to have an easy game at Ellispark, that I can guarantee you, it isn't 2012.

The boks look very fit BB, very trim all bar Alberts. He is a bit of a luxury player and can go missing in matches often. Cameo runs are great but if can't pull his weight around the rest of the park then I think it may be time to have a look at the backrow balance... an AUS side with Horwill, Higginbottom and Pocock back are a different beast altogether... the boks must address this sooner or later.

Jannie DP has looked a little off the pace for a while... only been a regular because he's been just better then the rest. A couple of youngsters in Cilliers and Oosthuizen look better bets... never been outstanding.

Alberts will be replaced by Arno Botha, Botha will make all the difference to our back row, but unfortunately he is injured.

Jannie has been playing non stop rugby for 2 years now, he hasn't missed a game.

His missed tackles that provided the All Blacks a try was always going to be a missed tackle as he didn't have the pace to get there, that is what happens when you have a man down, more space.

Definitely a stronger squad BB. Our bench doesn't have the impact of SA though if Messam starts (which I hope he doesn't as the clear out is a primary job for the 6) Luatua is an impact sub. Lock is a problem and the front row options are a step down.

Will McCaw and Cruden be fit? They would be welcome additions though Cane did a good job it must be said. The Boks like playing at altitude but NZ will be better in the backs in those conditions than in wintry night rugby conditions.

The Bok pack will again prove a handful but will hopefully be at their full complement. So NZ will have to weather that storm and make better use of their strengths in the backs. A clash of styles like we were getting in Auckland. Like we'll get in Ellis Park.

Who can outdo the other as well as limit the other in doing what they do best? That's the key and that's what we all want to see in Ellis Park because we didn't get it at Eden Park. Only flashes.

Things to work on for both sides. I will await the Argentina test and our performance there will tell me how confident we should be for the following week. Lots of unresolved questions after last week.

he would have made the tackle if he hadn't tried to tackle him at his chest rather than his waist.... its something Jannie has done a little too often. You don't get bounced off if you tackle low, you may not make the same impact but you will make the tackle.

He's the heaviest guy in the pack and probably the slowest so he will be targeted... but there is a difference to being burnt for pace and being bounced, handed off etc due to poor technique.