Lax All Black Pack Cracks But Shag Backs Dagg To Drag Match Back.

Wow. Just wow. South Africa look to be in awesome form.

Granted Australian rugby is in its most miserable state for fifty years, but there is no disguising how intimidating  this Springbok side is.

The Boks have now married their power game with a rapier precision in the Back line and the experience to know when to switch modes. Add Morne Steyn's siege boot and back in form long range goal kicking and you have a serious unit that will be tough to beat. 

Normally poor tourists, South Africa easily outmuscled a fragile looking Australia and clinched a convincing win at the bastion of Australian resistance, the parochial Suncorp stadium.

In this kind of form I can see South Africa ending new Zealand's long run of success at Eden Park. Especially with captain Richie out injured and Dan Carter out of form.

Hats off to Heyneke Meyer. I was a detractor and I put my hand up and say I was wrong.

Most impressive is south Africa's command at the breakdown. Defensively they must have the best turn over rate in the rugby championship and on attack they can maintain pressure through numerous phases and patiently wait their chance to pounce.  Just awesome stuff.

Has the potential to be a great game. Can't wait....

SA were good but Australia are terrible. A really poor outfit this year.

NZ/SA could be a cracker.

Got a bad feeling about next week NZ wise. No King so SA will really fancy their chances. Regardless of who wins let's hope it is the great game it's shaping up to be.

disneychilly wrote:Got a bad feeling about next week NZ wise. No King ???so SA will really fancy their chances. Regardless of who wins let's hope it is the great game it's shaping up to be.

If the Boks play like that again they will wipe the floor with NZ.

I don't think they'll wipe the floor, but I think NZ will want fine weather  because there is no way they are likely to win a close ground game on penalties. 

I would look at the home Argentina games as a good indicator of where the teams are at comparatively. 

Cruden has to come back and Saili is not ready for this kind of challenge quite yet. It will be a real test for Hansen's tactical ability.

Put my hand up too and admit to having totally underestimated the Boks this year. Personnel hasn't changed so dramatically over the past twelve months, so think that Meyer deserves enormous credit for the type of rugby we just saw. No international side has played a more complete game than that for some time and would like to think that we will see that kind of ambition at Eden Park. As long as they don't revert to over-caution, the Boks must have a major chance in Auckland, whatever the weather.

Yes. I was impressed by their patience and accuracy. They just looked in control for 80 minutes.

SA were run quite close in Argentina, they're looking on form but not invincible. And NZ at Eden Park is a tougher proposition. The AB's themselves didn't beat Aus by a great deal less than today. Should be a humdinger but I'm tipping NZ to preserve that record.

The reverse I simply couldn't call at this point.

SA were superb on both sides of the ball today, though, Knowsit - their defence was generally excellent, with the Wallabies unable to make some of the headway in attack that they managed at times in the two All Black games. Accepting that the Boks were less than fantastic in Argentina, their best in this tournament has been streets ahead of everyone else's so far. That, of course, doesn't mean that they will stand the All Blacks on their heads next week, but with McCaw likely to be off games for the rest of the championship, I make SA slight favourites to create a little bit of history in Auckland.

I thought Saili did ok after his howler. He didn't look to pass much but in hindsight that wasn't the dumbest thing to do as the ball security for both sides was atrocious. He always seemed to get beyond the gainline which was a good sign even if he didn't make any clean breaks.

RW Richie is the King.

I think what today's game showed is that the Boks should offer meaningful opposition to the All Blacks next weekend. I believe having a strong Bok team to test the AB's is a winning situation for rugby as a whole. AB's must naturally still be favourites at home.

It's what we want: challenges. SA have shown that history doesn't matter to them. Chalked up their first win in Brisbane and will now look to get a win at Eden Park.

Perfect set up as far as I'm concerned. The boys will be nervous as they know SA look a huge threat. That means everyone's conscious they'll have to raise the performance from today which was error strewn. SA will be looking to exert pressure at the breakdown and the set piece and so NZ will have to be ready to meet that threat.

The neutrals are pumped for this game and as a NZ fan I certainly can't wait for next Saturday. This is what it's all about: facing the toughest of challenges.

I really hope this game is as good as it is being billed, because I personally have found the rugby championship a let down so far.

The Rugby Championship does have a bit of a two-tier feel to it at the moment.

I think it is important not to get carried away.

One thing Meyer's charges have oroven is they are inconsistent.

When they turn it on they seem to be accurate, strong and effective.

But when they are out off their game they struggle to find cohesion.

Going by their recent performances, next week might well be a mediocre performance.

Biltong wrote:I think it is important not to get carried away.

One thing Meyer's charges have oroven is they are inconsistent.

When they turn it on they seem to be accurate, strong and effective.

But when they are out off their game they struggle to find cohesion.

Going by their recent performances, next week might well be a mediocre performance.

IT helps when they get areas of the game totally unpressured, which they won't against NZ.

Agree first time for a while it feels like we have a genuine challenge. Against the Boks will be the travel factor and that I reckon will decide it in the last 20- regardless of everything else. This result was entirely predictable, the score probably the surprising aspect, if there is one. Could not see Oz winning this one at all.

They match up has all the AB and Bok usuals- a big marauding pack though now supported with more capable backs vs the athleticism and tenacity of the ABs. One area we still have over the Boks is individual skills and effective combinations in the backs, the ability to move the ball wide in a heartbeat, but one things for sure, the Boks have made their intentions clear.

Great to see, and waiting for Biltongs piece on all this. He'll be one happy chappy for many reasons, yet astute enough to appreciate the challenge ahead next week, and thev importance of it for Bok rugby.

I'll write something late on Tman, first need to process the match in its entirety, one thing that stands out is our inconsistent oerformances at the breakdown.

It was my major concern for this match, and this time we got it right.

And our wrap defence leaves huge gaps behind for a well placed chip kick which the Wallabies never exploited.

Yeah the defences of both sides wasnt good- the field seemed to look more open than any Ive seen the ABs play- holes everywhere. That will be Hansens focus next week after sorting the tight stuff out. Our backplay is as slick as ever ruined by the rain last night.

Watching the replay now and as good as the boks were oz were just horrible. Cant believe what Im seeing...again. Theyre completely lost at sea as a unit, individual efforts only- Cooper and Lilo was a failure as well, Cooper still trying to pull rabbits out of his hat

It was very hard to draw any real conclusions Australia especially with Horwill missing,an experimental side.and a Coach feeling his way.The Aussies were on a hiding to nothing
and the Boks overwhelmed them up front.The Score wasn't as conclusive as the first
Bledisloe Match.
in appalling conditions only a blatant Professional foul denied the AB`s a bonus point win
and it seemed to me.Hansen was giving as many of his squad a run as possible.The Ref
didn't give much thought to the Scrummaging conditions underfoot and could have cut
both teams some slack.At the end the ball must have been like a piece of wet soap.
McCaw being injured means a new 7,for me Matt Todd and Latimer would be better bets than Cane on current form.Ditto Ben Franks starting at TH if Owen is still crook,hopefully DC and Nonu will be back fit.
It wouldn't surprise me if bonus points or points difference will decide the 4Ns this year
in which case the Boks are sitting pretty.IF the AB`s match the Boks up front there defence
and fire power behind could be the difference.
It wouldn't surprise me at all if the Boks lose in NZ and win at home then it would mean AB`s
picking up at least 2 Bonus points from last 3 matches unlikely.

alan son,

Don't forget NZ get a try that shouldn't have been so it evens out

Not sure if the boks can win at eden park but they cant be more prepared- travel and fortress eden park are two compelling factors here. NZ really have a sweet draw. Latimers a good option I agree and Braid has tolied away well so either could be brought in- I'm not a Cane or Todd fan but it seems we're fairly week there.

On individuals, Aaron Smith is playing better than anyone in the pos at the moment- Luatua adds a new dimension, allowind Read to do some tight work. Reads pass for the try was special- hand off to Smith in the tackle, wet was real skill.

Whitlock continues to impress...thinks are looking good.

Which try Cyril? Smiths? that was a try in anyones book. Would have been given anywhere.

Despite McCaws injury, Hansens got this side to such a level that we dont sweat as much as we used to over individual injuries, even if they are considered all time greats. We just fill them with someone who's tracked in the same path. Thats the sign of a truly complete side where it has the depth to absorb the negatives without losing anything much on the board. New players come in and actually play well, Saiili the latest who at least held his own and can be forgiven the odd error in his first match. he has potential, and just needs to work on his option taking more.

Taylorman wrote:Which try Cyril? Smiths? that was a try in anyones book. Would have been given anywhere.

Cyril Smith was a big man, but he's out of shape.

I dont think the Boks will storm Eden park too be honest.

I do think that the Boks will give the Abs a good game mind you. who will stand in for Mcaw?

I do think this game could be the best game this season NZ Abs. Lets hope so.

with the size of the win over oz...away...it certainly has promise. oz couldnt have had a better buildup in terms of opposition played for that match and still got done. the travel factor and eden park are the biggies here - the boks havnt won there since 1937, one of our better records.

Regardless, someone will be getting paid a lot of overtime this week to break this bok side down.

I'm impressed by the boks. I think they're building nicely. I think Meyer getting his ducks in a row and line up with SA's traditional strengths. Great set piece, competitive breakdown, power and kicking. To my mind he's added to that the defensive breakdown work was good and they shifted the ball to space out wide. I think they are the real deal this year.

It's going to be an interesting battle. The boks usually have an advantage at lineout, they may have an advantage at scrum as well. They've adapted to northern refs (i.e. the tacklers don't have to release in the tackle) better than NZ or Australia. I'm really interested to see how we combat this, because it left a bit exposed at times this week.

The only worry I have going forward is that we heading for an era of endless box kicks. It was an issue raised by English clubs a few years ago. The problem was and is the release at the tackle area. Now that the scrum is starting to look better, it'sthe real weakness I can see in the game a whole at moment.

I think all 3 SH teams are in the rebuilding process and that maybe the Boks are currently
further down the road.It is better the one match at a time approach and getting it right than
the "Building for the RWC rubbish one constantly hears"
To be fair in the conditions Saturdays AB result was a good one,obviously a lot of work will
be done by relevant coaches.
Australia at the moment are a rudderless ship but teams like the Reds and Brumbies are consistently good this year.
Get past the injuries and a settled game plan/squad and OZ won`t be far away come next season.
I think Matt Todd is the best bet for McCaw because he has modelled his game on McCaws
to use an old fashioned term a "Grafter"

Cane will start. Todd on the bench.

Crikey. The Boks will be licking their chops.

The obvious tactic is to tire out the big pack and Cane fits that plan better than most. The last 20 minutes will be where the ABs will get the best advantage. Lot of travelling for these big boys and pace, stretching the boks all over the park for the first 60,upping the tempo continuously, is our trump card, the last 20 hopefully providing the gaps.

I think our players are fitter than 2010 though taylorman.

NZ want to tire out SA by running them around.

SA want to tire NZ by running over them for 60
Minutes.

Despite all the travelling, SA finished stronger yesterday because the Aussies had the stuffing knocked out of them and couldn't break the advantage line.

Luatua will be interesting. Can he have the same impact against a physically stronger team?

Conditions will again be vital. NZ showed some silky skills in executing the Savea try in horrendous conditions, but also made 16 handling errors in the wet, perhaps inevitably due to the deluge. Will SAs speed men capitalise in such conditions?

Very similar situation to last year though this time SA is away. The week before they faced NZ they cut Australia up and humbled them. If anything last year's performance was more convincing but it was at home. Yesterday's result gives SA confidence and belief in their game.

NZ won't have the advantage they had last year of dealing with kids in the centres. JDV is playing well and the SA rush defence will cause problems. Hansen will have to figure out a way of combatting that.

McCaw out is definitely a blow but there will be hopefully replacements to steady up the scrum and Nonu should be back and he seems to pull the big performances out against SA.

SA will fancy their big men to gain ascendancy up front. They look as a team more comfortable playing at pace so that negates NZ's strength a little. Who will be able to match the other's strengths and get influence with their own?

NZ got on the wrong side if the ref at scrum time this week, they'll need to find ways to avoid that with SA. Although I fancy SA are less proficient than Argentina in that aspect.

GloriousEmpire wrote:NZ got on the wrong side if the ref at scrum time this week, they'll need to find ways to avoid that with SA. Although I fancy SA are less proficient than Argentina in that aspect.

Not from what Ive seen, the scrum has become more strength wrestle than power, and there aren't many teams who wouldve enjoyed the rule change more than SA. They did to Aus's scrum what NZ threatened they might do but didn't quite.

Australia had a few more injuries this week. It's not comparing apples. NZ achieved everything they wanted to and improved week on week. Not helped by a referee who only seemed interested in scrums and penalties - endemic of the lack of vision and empathy for running rugby up north.

GloriousEmpire wrote:Australia had a few more injuries this week. It's not comparing apples. NZ achieved everything they wanted to and improved week on week. Not helped by a referee who only seemed interested in scrums and penalties - endemic of the lack of vision and empathy for running rugby up north.

Nothing to do with 16 handling errors then  

Handling errors are inevitable when you play an open game in a monsoon. Many lesser teams would shut up shop and play force back kick ping pong for 80 minutes. But as NZ showed, a skilful team can still execute some outrageous tries in those conditions and win on skill rather than luck.

A shame the referee was not up to it and robbed NZ of a deserved fourth try by failing to have sufficient awareness and knowledge of the laws in open play. I imagine its through lack of experience with such types of rugby, so in the long run it will be beneficial to have northern referees down being exposed to it.

But you seem to be more that one eyed, if the ref is to blame for a questionable 4th try dissalowment, then surely there is an argument for allowing the knock on as well, making the 4th try argument moot?

The weather was hardly monsoon weather, and with regards to less skillfull teams shutting up shop, are you refering to others huge wins over Argentina in recent years, England, Scotland, SA?

Face it a smarter teams wouldve eradicated handling errors by not playing basketball when they weren't skillfull enough to do so in the conditions!

But let me ask you a serious question, the weather wasn't perfect, and NZ made a lot of errors, those 2 facts are undeniable? Did NZ play the wrong game tactically, allowing Argentina to compete in their areas of strength, or were NZ not ggod enough at executing the gameplan? Tactical or technical flaws?

I think you'll find NZ won and were a poor referees call away from a fourth bonus point try.

This was a stronger Argentina side than that who gave South Africa a fright the week prior.

So I would say, correct tactics, good but imperfect execution and a success in blooding yet more talented young All Blacks and giving some who needed a rest some time out.

GloriousEmpire wrote:I think you'll find NZ won and were a poor referees call away from a fourth bonus point try.

This was a stronger Argentina side than that who gave South Africa a fright the week prior.

So I would say, correct tactics, good but imperfect execution and a success in blooding yet more talented young All Blacks and giving some who needed a rest some time out.

Stronger by what, having their inspirational leader back away from home?

Yes. Definitely a stronger line up.

I think Argie were stronger in the second test for playing at home and coming off a 70 point rout.

Aaron Smith said theyd trained a dry weather gameplan but they had to adjust their tactics during the match. Its a real pity it chose to shower when it did- same thing happened at Wellington- no rain all day then 7.40pm taps on like someone turned them on.

They did adjust typified immediately by Saiili who got the lesson of his life dropping the ball and giving the try away.

He then carried and went to ground more, put the chip in etc and paid more respect to the slippery ball in general.

But they didnt shut down completely the Savea try one any international side would be proud of in that weather- full width of the field in 4 passes, Saiilis a gem.

That is how the ABs will be looking to stretch the Boks this week- pounce on small or any mistakes. They may be fitter Biltong but its common sense that bigger guys tire more easily than smaller ones and whether theyre as fit as the AB's, who base their gameplan on fitness and playing at pace, is about to be tested.

Agree they look good though, but its still a big ask travelling all that way to win at Eden park for a match the AB's will have marked down as one of the top of the list to win this year.

Agree with Alan on the ref- the could have been more tolerant in the conditions but I thought he did ok in the end.

Yeah look, I don't think our chances of winning at Eden Park is more than 5% to be honest.

What I do expect is for the Boks to be up for it and go hell for leather.

If we can put the fear of hell into the All Blacks and come off with a narrow loss then we will have gone some way toward pressurising the AB's.

It is also important from the stand point of consistency, something we have lacked for a long time now.

It is no use we know we have the tools, but then don't use them.

However running us out of steam is but a theory, one I firmly believe will fail.

Beating us by simply executing better and making use of the home ground advantage is of course a reality.

This match will certainly start tongues wagging here this week thats for sure Biltong.

Two unbeaten sides after 3 matches, SA ahead on points and likely to win the title if they secure this one, both having played the other two makes for a fantastic match up. Eden park- has all the hallmarks of a ripper and this looks more like what the AB- Bok rivalry is all about.

Well let's hope the match lives up to expectation. There has been far too few of them in the professional era.

Conclusions have been drawn from two high scoring Bok performances against frankly two teams that underperformed badly.The Boks struggled against Argentina away,the AllBlacks
performed well in appalling conditions in Hamilton.They didn't adjust the game plan to the conditions in the backs.Which incidentally looked like the whole squad was used in the match
just trying to tire a team with 24 men squad won`t work.
There is no reason that the AllBlacks can`t match the Boks up front bulk isn't everything
losing McCaw at the breakdown.Does`nt help but the overall work of the forwards in that
area is crucial.
A 5-1 result for both SA and NZ and the 4Ns being decided on bonus points is no disgrace
to drop maybe 2 games in 2 years.Would not be the end of the world for the ABs IF that
happens look out NH because they will be breathing fire trying to prove a point.

There is of course the possibility that the all blacks are now stronger without carter and McCaw. I've thought Cruden is better for a couple if years now and McCaw have away some silly penalties on the weekend. 

The crusaders did ok without them didnt they? And lets not forget the chiefs are the super rugby champs...