Will Genia Dropped. McKenzie lost the Plot?

by GloriousEmpire Wed 11 Sep 2013, 3:06 pm

Is Ewen McKenzie now on a plot hunt? Or does Genia indeed need to improve?

Mckenzie said last week that either his game plan vision was too complex or the players weren't capable of understanding or implementing it.

His solution is to drop Genia.

Is he implying Genia is not smart enough? Not talented enough? Or that he himself is too complex for the rest of the team to follow?

by **Galted** Wed 11 Sep 2013, 3:09 pm

Might just be a tactical kick in the pants for Genia. He was poor against SA, only contribution seemed to be moaning at the ref. Could see him being reselected after a game or two.

by ChequeredJersey Wed 11 Sep 2013, 3:11 pm

Probably because Genia has been awful in the last 2 games he's played, sub-par at best in the one before that, and not great in the last game against the Lions either, and White deserves a start on form

by GunsGerms Wed 11 Sep 2013, 3:15 pm

Plus playing Argentina is a good chance to get other players involved which is always important. Has McKensie actually said Genia has been dropped or is just a case of rotation?

by maestegmafia Wed 11 Sep 2013, 3:17 pm

Any scrumhalf would have looked poor in their last two games.

by ChequeredJersey Wed 11 Sep 2013, 3:17 pm

I think people are assuming it is dropping as Genia hasn't been playing well, it's probably a combo with him resting too, Australia have been putting a lot of pressure on him IMO

by ChequeredJersey Wed 11 Sep 2013, 3:19 pm

maestegmafia wrote:Any scrumhalf would have looked poor in their last two games.

Fair enough, that

by GloriousEmpire Wed 11 Sep 2013, 3:25 pm

ChequeredJersey wrote:I think people are assuming it is dropping as Genia hasn't been playing well, it's probably a combo with him resting too, Australia have been putting a lot of pressure on him IMO

Mckenzie said he had told Genia he had things to work on, and that he was confident Genia would knuckle down, work on his game and come back a better player.

Yikes.

Seems like a risky ploy to me. I'd say Genia had been carrying the team and probably if anything deserved a pat on the back and a rest.

by ChequeredJersey Wed 11 Sep 2013, 3:27 pm

GloriousEmpire wrote:
ChequeredJersey wrote:I think people are assuming it is dropping as Genia hasn't been playing well, it's probably a combo with him resting too, Australia have been putting a lot of pressure on him IMO
Mckenzie said he had told Genia he had things to work on, and that he was confident Genia would knuckle down, work on his game and come back a better player.

Yikes.

Seems like a risky ploy to me. I'd say Genia had been carrying the team and probably if anything deserved a pat on the back and a rest.

Not from what I saw, his pass, defence behind the ruck fringes and kicking have been lamentable, especially knowing what he can do, even behind a pack under pressure

by kiakahaaotearoa Wed 11 Sep 2013, 4:13 pm

It's a good move from the Ewe Man. We need leaders not sheep. Genia hasn't been up to much all year. He's showed flashes of brilliance but too often he's looked like Gregan in the twilight years of his career: slow, ponderous and predictable with a poor kicking game to boot.

I think fly half though is a bigger problem. Cooper needs time and space from his forwards with front foot ball to do the flashy things. You don't want dazzle when the opposition are rushing up and they have your measure at the breakdown and set piece. Toomua is the polar opposite and has the virgin effect on his backline.

Something tells me someone should've taken a punt on Foley as he is a mix of the two. If you're going to bring in someone new bring in a rounded player. Not 50 shades of grey with full on penetration and good balance but not the black and white of the other two: steady Eddie or Frank Flash. A mix of both.

Shuffling of backrow players like Mowen is not getting to the core of the problem. It's a bit like Oracle for the Wallabies. They're just simply up against better at the moment. Not a huge difference but definitely a noticeable one and the teamwork isn't as flash either.

by GunsGerms Wed 11 Sep 2013, 4:19 pm

I agree with you on Foley. Of all the Australian OHs I have seen lately he looks the most rounded and is someone I suggested may have had a look in for the Lions.

I dont really rate Cooper at all. He'd make a great 7s player.

by maestegmafia Wed 11 Sep 2013, 4:21 pm

GunsGerms wrote:I agree with you on Foley. Of all the Australian OHs I have seen lately he looks the most rounded and is someone I suggested may have had a look in for the Lions.

I dont really rate Cooper at all. He'd make a great 7s player.

You have to be able to tackle in sevens...

by **Biltong** Wed 11 Sep 2013, 4:31 pm

Gia needs rest, this is the best option for the team, he hasn't really made any difference for the Wallabies..

by kiakahaaotearoa Wed 11 Sep 2013, 4:50 pm

Genia or me Biltong? I did my best for the Wallabies by sending them my best wishes but I agree it didn't do any good. Hug

by **Biltong** Wed 11 Sep 2013, 4:58 pm

Haha, this damn Ipad with my thick fingers is a constant irritation.

by funnyExiledScot Wed 11 Sep 2013, 5:01 pm

If the idea is to rest Genia after a busy season thus far then fine, but he's comfortably Australia's best player so if it's for tactical reasons, then McKenzie's reign will be very short indeed.

9.Genia 10.Cooper 11.Ioane 12.Lealaifanu 13.AAC 14.Folau 15.Beale

That's the backline for Australia in my view. Stick with it and play the game at pace, with a back row of Mowen, Pocock and Higginbotham. Then the Wallabies will be back in business. Despite the tough run they've had (against formidable opposition to be fair), they still have some seriously talented players to call upon.

by kiakahaaotearoa Wed 11 Sep 2013, 5:14 pm

FES that backrow could work if Higgsy and Po return from injury. Genia is comfortably Oz's best player when playing to his potential. He's nowhere near that and his dropping is justified. Rest him mentally from the idea that he has to fire this Wobbly backline back to form. Give White a game to send the message that no player is guaranteed a place.

by GunsGerms Wed 11 Sep 2013, 5:22 pm

All for dropping an off form player but if I was going to drop my captain, Genia has been acting as captain I think, I would probably call it resting my captain.

by ChequeredJersey Wed 11 Sep 2013, 5:22 pm

FES, on form he is their best player but he is nowhere near top form, he was genuinely dire in his last 2 matches even allowing for his pack's weak performances. The concept that class is permanent and class players should be played regardless of form, obvious fatigue and mental burnout is just plain wrong

by Jhamer25 Wed 11 Sep 2013, 5:31 pm

The fact is Genia is too good for the team at the moment; That's what Mckenzie is technically saying. His game is just too complex for the rest of the team at the moment.
McKenzie has made a bold but wise option, he is going back to basic to try and reignite a struggling and poor Australian team.
It's the first time really, someone is being dropped to the bench for being too good.

The problem is the front 5 though, so so weak and they have a weak scrum.

by Guest Wed 11 Sep 2013, 6:03 pm

kiakahaaotearoa wrote:Toomua is the polar opposite and has the virgin effect on his backline.

What is the virgin effect...?

FES, no room for James O'Connor?

by kiakahaaotearoa Wed 11 Sep 2013, 6:06 pm

No penetration, miaow.

by Guest Wed 11 Sep 2013, 6:31 pm

Ahaha. Should have got that.

by ChequeredJersey Wed 11 Sep 2013, 6:54 pm

Ioane for JOC easily for me. Or JOC for Beale. He's been their best back the past matches

by The Saint Wed 11 Sep 2013, 7:04 pm

Deans looks like the better coach by the day.

by aucklandlaurie Wed 11 Sep 2013, 7:06 pm

Ioane left wing, O'Connor right wing..In an ideal World.

With regards to genia, I have trouble believing its just a rest because if that was the case you wouldnt have him on the bench either.

I do like the Brumbies halfback/First five eighth combination, which brings White into the frame.

by The Saint Wed 11 Sep 2013, 7:20 pm

Isn't Ioane another one of ones going to France? Surely that's his place gone. Shame as he was probably one of the best in the world in his position.

by nganboy Thu 12 Sep 2013, 2:45 am

I've said it before Genia has been fading steadily since the beginning of 2012 probably since the world cup. He's just had too much to do at the Reds and for Wallabies. He needs a break.

by yappysnap Thu 12 Sep 2013, 9:10 am

Wallabies
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Wallabies v. Argentina: Team Announcement
STEVE LENTHALL SEPTEMBER 11, 2013 66 COMMENTS
No GravatarThe Wallabies have moved on to Perth to take on Argentina and hopefully secure their first win of The Rugby Championship in 2013.

After a disappointing loss to South Africa in Brisbane last week, coach Ewen McKenzie has made two changes to the starting lineup with the big talking point being the benching of Will Genia with Nic White taking his place. Quade Cooper retains the 10 jersey despite speculation he could also be benched.

The other change is Ben Alexander moving back to tighthead in place of Sekope Kepu. On the wings, James O’Connor and Nick Cummins have switched places.

With Genia benched, Ben Mowen takes over the captaincy as the third captain in as many matches.

On the bench Sitaleki Timani earns a spot with the injury crisis amongst the Aussie locks causing headaches for McKenzie. Tevita Kuridrani earns a recall and takes the place of Jesse Mogg.

1. James Slipper
2. Stephen Moore
3. Ben Alexander
4. Rob Simmons
5. Kane Douglas
6. Scott Fardy
7. Michael Hooper
8. Ben Mowen (c)
9. Nic White
10. Quade Cooper
11. Nick Cummins
12. Christian Leali’ifano
13. Adam Ashley-Cooper
14. James O’Connor
15. Israel Folau

Replacements
16. Saia Fainga’a
17. Scott Sio
18. Sekope Kepu
19. Sitaleki Timani
20. Ben McCalman
21. Will Genia
22. Matt Toomua
23. Tevita Kuridrani

There's the Ozzie team to play Argentina.

Does any one think that with a weak pack like that and the ultra soft backrow and frontrow in particular that it hardly matters who's playing 9 as Argentina are going to be playing set piece all match long? It's going to be a painful day for Oz (I still expect them to win as the Pumas will panic late on and their conditioning doesn't seem as good, Oz on the other hand are the masters at last minute tries when they realise they've got nothing to lose).

by yappysnap Thu 12 Sep 2013, 9:16 am

Discussing the whole team and not just Genia, how much must they be missing players like Giteau and Salvi? Both could do a huge amount for this current side and are playing some of the best rugby of their careers abroad.

For me Hooper at 7 is like a new Croft ultra fast and good in attack but just isn't hard enough to face up to the top teams, I'd have Gill in their or even Beau Robinson. His two backrow partners are both so average that they can't make up for his weaknesses either. In the backs this is the kind of game that unglamorous players like Fa'anga would be very handy to support Quade. Likewise Cummins was lucky to be involved again, they must have a better wing fit and available.

by funnyExiledScot Thu 12 Sep 2013, 9:20 am

I can understand the logic of Folau at 15, but I suspect the good sides will work him out fairly quickly. He's good under the high ball, but in terms of positioning and tactical awareness I think Argentina will be asking some questions. Clearly though he's an awesome attacking talent.

Don't know anything about Scott Fardy. Mowen has looked the business at 6 though, so slightly surprised to see him shifted.

by fa0019 Thu 12 Sep 2013, 9:50 am

I think its a good idea.

I don't think McKenzie thinks Genia isn't his no.1 but he isn't playing well... too often players who are deemed undroppable get complacent. They lose the hunger that got them there in the first place.

Sometimes coaches need to bring in competition and drop players now and again to keep them on their toes. I remember in 2002 SCW dropped Hill, Back and Dillaglio in successive AI games for Lewis Moody. This wasn't just games vs. nobody's but NZ, AUS and SA. They wanted to keep the trio on their toes and make them aware that Lewis was snapping at their heels.

Come the away matches to SA and Argentina, Genia will play.

by ChequeredJersey Thu 12 Sep 2013, 11:58 am

fa0019 wrote:I think its a good idea.

I don't think McKenzie thinks Genia isn't his no.1 but he isn't playing well... too often players who are deemed undroppable get complacent. They lose the hunger that got them there in the first place.

Sometimes coaches need to bring in competition and drop players now and again to keep them on their toes. I remember in 2002 SCW dropped Hill, Back and Dillaglio in successive AI games for Lewis Moody. This wasn't just games vs. nobody's but NZ, AUS and SA. They wanted to keep the trio on their toes and make them aware that Lewis was snapping at their heels.

Come the away matches to SA and Argentina, Genia will play.

Richard Hill was never dropped in his England Career

by XR Thu 12 Sep 2013, 12:43 pm

He's been carrying Aus for a while now, he needs a rest

by kiakahaaotearoa Thu 12 Sep 2013, 2:31 pm

gcBlues wrote:He's been carrying Aus for a while now, he needs a rest

I thought Qantas sponsors Wallabies. Seems unfair on Genia that he has to be the team carrier.

Oh how I need a beer! And me coat.

by butterfingers Thu 12 Sep 2013, 9:03 pm

It's odd because Genia has defended extremely poorly this season throughout. Usually he is dependable despite his size, but he has been lacking the courage a bit lately and has been swatted away by loads of players in Super and int rugby.

Noone can deny his quality, but if Mckenzie has any ambitions on the RWC he needs at least strong back up, and maybe someone to push Genia to up his effort levels.

I would think at this moment in time Mckenzie is looking at his RWC group and starting to seriously worry that he'll be dumped out in the group. Genia has been best in the world, but his ability to win games solo isn't there, and without Cooper able to create a combo a new partnership needs to emerge.

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