England Backline

Nice article in The Telegraph yesterday morning by Will Greenwood.


One weekend of club rugby gone and already I have a hangover. The reason for my early season sweats is that England’s current crop of potential backs is a bit like the top shelf at a bar.

There is a lot of choice, and a real variety of flavours and strengths. There is also the temptation to try them all, mix them together, shake them up and see what happens.

Occasionally you will get the cocktail right and fire a rugby celebration into life.

With a pack that includes Alex Corbisiero or Mako Vunipola, Tom Youngs or Dylan Hartley, Dan Cole, and Geoff Parling in the front five, England can mix it with the best in the business and win the ball they need from the set piece.

Now they have to find the back line that can work with the ball they get.

There are three Test matches, then a Six Nations and one big tour to New Zealand – then it is suddenly under a year to the Rugby World Cup.

England need to start nailing down their key combinations, and working out their style of play.

The key to it all is often found in isolating the right ingredients, more often than not outside the half-backs.

I am going to simplify a bit, but basically in the back three you want one absolute speed merchant, one rock under the high ball and one lumpy winger to knock holes.

In midfield, you need one centre who fills space and sucks people in and one who can put others into the space.

This may seem like a lunatic wish list, but on the evidence of the first weekend, England have a lot of talent that can meet this template.

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Full-back

There are three main faces. Ben Foden has a real chance to put his injuries behind him and get back to being lethal again.

With a run of games, he can stop chasing his performance and cut down on his error count, which had become too high.

If he can do that, then he can get the position ahead of the “safer” options of Alex Goode and Mike Brown.

If you want to take on the best in the world, then you need a full-back who threatens, who strikes, who coasts around people.

Sure, you need him to catch and tackle but you if remove the threat of a running 15, then you kill your distributors and with that, your width.

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Wingers

The same goes for your wingers, and as well as the established players, England will be wanting to see Marland Yarde and Christian Wade use their different styles to dominate.

Wade will never frighten in the tackle – Shane Williams never did either – but he can learn and adapt to new systems and find ways to fit in.

What makes him so exciting is that he can do things few others can.

If the team stay confident, and get him the ball, he can be devastating.

I am a firm believer in the theory of “first who, then what” and Wade fits this world view.

It means that you find your best players, your potent finishers, your best handlers, some good kickers, and then work out how you want to play to use their strengths and cover the weaknesses, fitting in the moves in attack and defence that suit.

Yarde is slightly different in style but no less exciting.

This lad is a lump, and while he does not have Wade’s agility, he packs a bigger punch.

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Centre

In terms of the established players in the centres we know a lot already. Manu Tuilagi is a monster of a man, who smashes holes, does not kick, handles OK, hits things and is the gain-line man.

Brad Barritt will tackle anything and has better hands than most people give him credit for.

But it is the newer faces that could prove the most intriguing.

For Billy Twelvetrees it is time now to deliver week in week out and nail down the No12 jersey.

He is the right size for the modern centre and he offers a second pair of hands distribution-wise outside the fly-half.

It could be the making both of him and England.

Kyle Eastmond, however, is the most fascinating of the lot.

The Argentina tour was his big break, and I never thought he would have dominated a Test match from inside centre.

And yet that is exactly what he did when he madehis first England start in the second Test. It was a quality performance.

Should he manage to establish himself as a real contender for the No12 jersey then he would be a throwback to the days of Tim Horan – under 6ft, lightning feet, explosive off the mark.

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Style

As obvious as it sounds, I want England to play in a threatening style.

Players need to enjoy getting the ball in their hands and to understand the systems.

The All Blacks do not jump through hoops, they run through patterns and phases.

For example, from the first phase they attack the gain line early and close to the set piece, allowing them to cut off a whole batch of defenders and put them on the back foot early. Then they strike.

They have the best back line in the world. They kick a lot. They tackle a lot.

But when they spot chances, they hunt them in packs of threes and fours.

You have to have players who can finish overlaps, isolate slow forwards in the defenders’ back line, who see space and spot weaknesses in defensive systems on the fly.

Certain combinations will require a totally different style of play.

A back three of Yarde, Foden, and Wade would be one of three fliers and where offensive excitement dominates the defensive realities.

A midfield with Eastmond would be a very different one to one with Twelvetrees.

What is good is that England do not seem to be creating the totally homogenous talent pool that I was so worried about a few years ago.

An awareness of opportunities has brought back the idea of the little guy.

England have the opportunity now to build different types of backline and try them quickly.

It will be intersting this year for England. Especily the 10 shirt. Farrel or Burns?

On the wing/s, do England stick with Ashton? or do they take a punt on Christian wade?

In the centre again do they stick with Barrit and Tualaghi? or give Twelve trees and Eastmond?


One thing i do not want too see this year is the likes of Mike Brown playing out p
of position ( on the wing etc.) Looking forward to the Ais that's for sure.

I still think we suffer from one problem throughout our player pool - we generally have good little uns or average big uns. We don't seem to produce the same number of very big but also athletic and agile players in SA and NZ, or even Wales. Think it's largely that our best athletes don't go into rugby, but I think it's a problem. Someone like B Vunipola is a bit closer to the mark, but I'm not sure he'd be ready for a player like Alberts. T Youngs is a good player, but isn't he just a smaller version of Bismarck with a poorer throw, for example.

Even Manu, for me, is a poor version of Savea. We have a lot of decent players coming through, but I still can't see a pack that really dominate the top teams.

I don't prescribe to this idea that players should be compared to others. They all have there pro's and con's

Planetrugby have Brad Barritt out for the Nov tests, so Billy 12Trees here is your chance!

A few other sources picking it up as well now little_badger. He's had foot surgery following an injury vs LI and will out for the AIs.

Never nice to see a player injured obviously but could be a blessing in disguise for England IMO as it allows us to try a more inventive midfield and put some width on the ball.

9.Youngs 10.Farrell 11.Yarde 12.Twelvetrees 13.Tuilagi 14.Wade 15.Brown/Foden

The above looks good to me if we can finally get the ball out wide and start offering something a bit different to forwards hit it up close to ruck, centre crash it up the middle and repeat until Manu hopefully breaks through.

http://www.espn.co.uk/premiership-2013-14/rugby/story/198575.html

Yep, out until Christmas apparently.

I saw Yarde at the Wuss/LI match yesterday and he was very impressive indeed - strong, fast and agile. It will be great for England if he can regularly reproduce that at international level. From what I saw he seems to have a very fiery temperament though which could be a problem in high pressure matches.

I like the look of that backline king_carlos!

Bench? I think I would go Care, Burns, Eastmond.

Is it just me or for once in a flipping long time does an England backline pick itself mostly...never thought I would see the day.......

And no Ashton  

Bet he picks Ashton now I've said it.

Unless Ashton has some shockers in the lead up to November I wouldn't be surprised to see him selected sadly. I don't believe he is as bad a player as many make out (or as good a player as some say for that matter) but Wade, Yarde, May and even Eastmond I see as preferable to him on the wing now.

Ashton is good at what he does, i.e. tracking big ball carriers looking for an offload but outside of that offers little more in attack and is a liability in defence. If he were to return his core skills need to improve drastically as his handling is poor, rucking often liable to penalties, positioning in defence is poor and his lack of tackling is well documented by now.

My main frustration with Ashton however is that he doesn't offer much of a threat out wide. The majority of his attacking work happens in field which frankly is the only place England offer a threat at the moment, for too long we haven't offered a threat on the blind side or out wide. This is what I like so much about Wade, Yarde and May as they offer a genuine threat down either touchline.

The above is also what I like about Eastmond on the wing as his footwork and pace of the mark could offer a huge threat in a short side attack.

king_carlos wrote:A few other sources picking it up as well now little_badger. He's had foot surgery following an injury vs LI and will out for the AIs.

Never nice to see a player injured obviously but could be a blessing in disguise for England IMO as it allows us to try a more inventive midfield and put some width on the ball.

9.Youngs 10.Farrell 11.Yarde 12.Twelvetrees 13.Tuilagi 14.Wade 15.Brown/Foden

The above looks good to me if we can finally get the ball out wide and start offering something a bit different to forwards hit it up close to ruck, centre crash it up the middle and repeat until Manu hopefully breaks through.

You would go with Farrell over Burns, Flood and Ford?

Why?

maestegmafia wrote:

king_carlos wrote:A few other sources picking it up as well now little_badger. He's had foot surgery following an injury vs LI and will out for the AIs.

Never nice to see a player injured obviously but could be a blessing in disguise for England IMO as it allows us to try a more inventive midfield and put some width on the ball.

9.Youngs 10.Farrell 11.Yarde 12.Twelvetrees 13.Tuilagi 14.Wade 15.Brown/Foden

The above looks good to me if we can finally get the ball out wide and start offering something a bit different to forwards hit it up close to ruck, centre crash it up the middle and repeat until Manu hopefully breaks through.

You would go with Farrell over Burns, Flood and Ford?

Why?

At this moment yes Maes. Ford is in his first season as a first choice Prem 10, no doubt he's talented and I'd be surprised if he didn't play for England in the near future but I'd give him time to put a string of games together for Bath and learn how to cope with different game plans, different opposition, different conditions etc whilst running the show.

As a Tigers fan I'm desperate for Flood to return to his full form and fitness but right now he is still struggling with injuries so again I'd wait and see how he goes. Word is he'll be back soon and hopefully he'll get back to full form because when given the right backline he can control an attacking gameplan very well.

Right now it's Farrell vs Burns for me and I'd really like to see Farrell given a run with a good backline outside him to work with. He will always offer big defence and strong kicking from the tee but if he can keep improving his distribution as he seemed to with the Lions I'd keep him in the 10 shirt for the start of the AI's at least.

21.Care 22.Burns 23.Eastmond/May

I also like the look of that bench. Incidentally we a building up a fair few players such as Eastmond, May, Tait and Daly who's versatility and attacking game make them ideal players for the 23 shirt.

Agree re Farrell. Ford is not there yet, talented but needs a run of games. Flood - solid but needs run of games after injury. Burns - offers the X factor but at present I feel best used on the bench to make sure he has the temperament.

That leaves Farrell, I would like someone to push him all the way, I think that could be Burns.

king_carlos - I am also a big fan of May, but at present does Eastmond just cover a few more positions? I think May has some injury problems too.

Daly needs to nail down his best position, this seems to be 15.

Ive been hugely critical of Farrell (which is possibly a little unfair at 21 yo) but he appears to have just taken off the blinkers a little...and looks to be trying things as a FH should. If he continues on he could be an impressive player.

He will start the Ai's i dont think theres much doubt of that.

A midfield of 10.Farrell 12. Twelvetrees 13. Tuilagi is a pretty large one...and could be interesting offensively aswell...so long as our pack gets quick ball...

Fair point KC, he is leaps ahead of all but flood in experience. Like you said he has a lot to work on outside of defence and goal kicking. I haven't seen him for Sarries yet this season but they are racking up some serious points, 86 in two games is impressive.

England have some decent backs at the moment who can be creative and play some nice rugby. Really need to start being creative to match the excellent pack. If everyone was on form and injury free Id have:

9.Youngs
10.Farrell/Burns/Flood
11.Ashton
12.36
13.Tuilagi
14.Wade
15.Foden

Out Half is a tough call as they all have something a little different to offer but all good players.

Was disappointed with Farrell against Gloucester. To be completely honest Burns seemed to do better out of the two.

I was particularly annoyed with Farrell's decision making - with Saracens 7-3 I think, Sarries got a penalty outwide instead of going for the corner he tried to kick for goal (he missed).

Makes no sense when the lineout was working like clockwork ( Saracens lineout is one of the best in the league), Gloucester were down to 14 men and struggling to compete with Saracens driving maul. Consequently Gloucester re grouped and with Burns kicking well in the poor conditions, Gloucester led 12-10 at half time.

Farrell's tactical kicking also wasn't great - he missed touch at least once with a penalty. He still doesn't look entirely comfortable when passing the ball. Admittedly I don't think Wigglesworth's leisurely pace to rucks helped.

Worrying thing for England fans is that Burns looked to be injured.

If you play 36 is a chap like Burns totally necessary over Farrell.

Farrell is the conservative one, 36 can mix it up a little.

Gives you an element of attacking zeal and defensive play which together covers all aspects.

I've seen burns on the line but what is his tackling like and his kicking skills? Equal or better to Farrell?

I would say a lineup of Farrell, 36 and Tuilagi would be very strong.

Burns and Twelvetrees both played well in what was inevitably a hopeless Gloucester cause after the sending off yesterday, while Brown had a very good game for Quins against Saints. Can't see anyone beating Youngs, Yarde, Twelvetrees and Tuilagi to their spots at present, so it will just be a question of:

Farrell/Burns - I can't see Lancaster investing that much gametime in Flood this autumn at this stage of the cycle
Wade/Ashton - Wouldn't be much debate on here, but Lancaster might just want Wade to try to earn it off him
Foden/Brown - Brown has been the best club full back in the league for two years but got shunted out to the wing last season, and now that Foden has his ankle sorted, a pre-season behind him and a brilliant back three partner to play with at Northampton he's in a strong position to take the 15 shirt back

thomh you are of course right. Youngs and Tuilagi in particular have shown great form in the AP this season......

I wouldn't start handing out start spots on a platter yet.

To be fair to Yarde with 3 tries in 2 games he's starting to live up to the hype. He's already matched the amount of tries he got last season in 19 matches!

Ashton has the same amount of tries as Wade this season so far. I thought he looked pretty good vs Gloucester too - defensively more solid than in the past. Looked sharp. Wade isn't necessarily a guaranteed pick.

Twelvetrees as a lack of contenders now Barritt is injured. For a supposedly attacking 12 I would expect Gloucester to do a bit better in the try scoring department.

beshocked wrote:thomh you are of course right. Youngs and Tuilagi in particular have shown great form in the AP this season......

I didn't say that, I said I couldn't see anyone taking their spot before the autumn. They've built a large part of England's attacking game around them and I think it would take more than a month or two of indifferent form for them to be dropped for someone such as (in Tuilagi's case) Eastmond, Tomkins or Joseph.

thomh you are probably right but it would be quite worrying if Youngs and Tuilagi show poor form for Leicester when they come back.

Youngs and Tuilagi are of course excellent players but both do have aspects of their game that need to be worked on.

You are probably right about England's attacking game. I believe there's too much reliance on Tuilagi's form for example. It's a dangerous situation when any side relies on players too much.

If Joseph or Tomkins are playing really well I think they could challenge.

I appreciate this thread is about the backs...but i think we are overlooking a vital part...an over reliance on Ben Morgans carrying skills. In his absence we appearwed devoid of ANY carrying capacity from our forwards.

Hopefully Morgan (or BIlly Vunipola if he outperforms him) and a few others can give our pack a bit more carrying...sucking in defenders which will allow quick ball...and opportunities to use space etc. It is here when the likes of Ashton comes into his own...

Billy Vunipola has had a strong start to the season in my opinion. Such a strong bloke. He's been playing at 6 too. So potentially you could have him and Morgan in the same backrow.

Then of course you have Mako too.

GeordieFalcon wrote:I appreciate this thread is about the backs...but i think we are overlooking a vital part...an over reliance on Ben Morgans carrying skills. In his absence we appearwed devoid of ANY carrying capacity from our forwards.

Hopefully Morgan (or BIlly Vunipola if he outperforms him) and a few others can give our pack a bit more carrying...sucking in defenders which will allow quick ball...and opportunities to use space etc. It is here when the likes of Ashton comes into his own...

Agreed. Possibly we'll see more of a second row like Attwood/Slater; though Launchbury and Parling have performed well together they lack a bit here for me. Kvesic is also supposed to be a good ball carrier isn't he although he'll struggle to get past/passed (never know which to use) Robshaw.

beshocked wrote:Billy Vunipola has had a strong start to the season in my opinion. Such a strong bloke. He's been playing at 6 too. So potentially you could have him and Morgan in the same backrow.

Then of course you have Mako too.

It will be interesting to see whether he stays at 6 when Will Fraser and Kelly Brown are fit again. He's been playing well but mainly in the same way he would do at 8. I doubt him and Morgan in the same back row would be able to cover enough ground over the course of the game.

thomh wrote:

beshocked wrote:Billy Vunipola has had a strong start to the season in my opinion. Such a strong bloke. He's been playing at 6 too. So potentially you could have him and Morgan in the same backrow.

Then of course you have Mako too.

It will be interesting to see whether he stays at 6 when Will Fraser and Kelly Brown are fit again. He's been playing well but mainly in the same way he would do at 8. I doubt him and Morgan in the same back row would be able to cover enough ground over the course of the game.

They both seem to cover a lot of ground just standing still really.

Ashton vs Wade. Wade just seems to offer so much more. His handling skills seem really good and he makes tries for others in a way you just dont see Ashton do. Size will always be an issue, but its not everything.

I don't have an issue with Wade's size and percieved defensive frailties.  If you have Farrell, Yarde, Twelvetees, Manu and either Foden or Brown in there you have enough in terms of bulk and defensive ability to be able to afford to have Wade in the side.

Surely bringing in Wade for Ashton would actually benefit the defence anyway?!

size isn't everything. does anyone ever remember Jason Robinson missing a tackle? I can't myself bar one on Elton Flatey in 2002 when he gone done for pace... amazing right!! Although he had a lot of ground to make up and Robinson was never a great long distance sprinter.

Technique is the most important thing for a winger defensively.

Habana early in his career was terrible... now he's one of the best. A lot of hard work went in there and he maintained his attacking prowess.

Wades size doesnt concern me. As mentioned above we should have enough size in the midfield. Wade is tenacious...and it was actually his positioning that was more questioned than anything else.

I wouldnt be so quick to throw Ashton out. When on form he is a quality player who offers something different. His problem is that for England (as i mentioned above) there have been no genuine destructive ball carriers that he can run lines off like he has at Sarries.

Ashton, Wade, Yarde and one other..May or Elliott for example would give us a nice mix and options...

How are the scrum halves getting on?
Based on matches so far, Youngs or Care for the 9 shirt?

Young's hasn't played yet has he? (Ben that is)
Care has been feisty and a bit of a nuisance for the opposition.
Lee Dickson is probably now 2nd choice at Saints.
Wigglesworth is looking sharp for Sarries.