Ireland's November Series and Beyond...

First topic message reminder :

Right boys, I want you give realistic guess of how Ireland will do in the November tests. I want you to separate your hearts from your heads. How do you predict Ireland will do and how will this set them up for the Six nations based on your poll prediction for the Autumn tests.

Do you believe in Schmidt? Do you believe he is the catalyst for consistent success or will we yet again disappoint by firing hot and cold like recent championships have dictated. Is there cause for quite confidence or should we be holding are cards close to our chest.

Feel free to throw out your wildest aspirations on the table or to throw caution to the wind.

The rest is up to you....


Sat 9th Ireland vs Samoa - Autumn
Sat 16th Ireland vs Australia - Autumn
Sun 24th Ireland vs New Zealand

Most capped player in the Ireland team is Brian O'Driscoll with 125 caps. Most capped player in the Samoa team is Ofisa Treviranus with 25 caps... we've 12 guys in our 23 with more caps than him.

Just goes to show how few opportunities in test matches Samoa have been given compared with a Tier 1 side.

Notch wrote:

Golden wrote:Actually kind of excited about these international games. Its been a long time since thats happened.

Same as that.

Righteous.

Believe.

Gibson wrote:

profitius wrote:Theres a bit of an overreaction about the team. Schmidt hinted months back that he will rotate the squad a bit so he left some top players on the bench with a view of the next 2 games. Its refreshing to see.

Do ya know what it is Prof?

You save so much time man.

   


It should also be noted that the combined weight of the Ireland pack is 925kgs according to my calculations. Although its not the best pack, that could be the heaviest ever Ireland pack and an example of Schmidts 'horses for courses' type of selection.

Gibson wrote:

Notch wrote:I can't see O'Brien not coming in next week but I do believe Schmidt is appreciative of what Henry can offer at the breakdown and this is a big opportunity for Chris to impress and put his hand up for more caps.

Heard him being interviewed. Watched him play. He's a very determined  clever bollix. Like the cut of his jib.  Hope he displaces and moves  SOB to 6. That would be nice.

I don't give a flying phooke what ye peasants say, but to move on up, like all great sides, we need a proper basterd 7.  I reckon Henry could be the One.

Given up on Jennings have ya Gibbo?  

Gibson wrote:

ME-109 wrote:

profitius wrote:Theres a bit of an overreaction about the team. Schmidt hinted months back that he will rotate the squad a bit so he left some top players on the bench with a view of the next 2 games. Its refreshing to see.

i believe that is a misconception, if Sexton, SOB, POC and Earls/Zebo were all fully fit they would all be starting. Depending on injuries after Samoa i would expect them to be the only changes. McGrath deserves a go but Healy will come in for Aus as well. Possibly Dec Fitz as well.

So what's the problem then? This is good. He's blending youth and experience already. Transitioning in his first game. Brave move.  

I haven't seen anything that I think is a problem Gibson. Don't be so defensive (yet). Am looking forward to Sat..Samoa are going to be a lot tougher than some people think...

I do think he would prefer to have his strongest team out on Sat though and then see how it goes through the series..

Golden wrote:

Gibson wrote:

Notch wrote:I can't see O'Brien not coming in next week but I do believe Schmidt is appreciative of what Henry can offer at the breakdown and this is a big opportunity for Chris to impress and put his hand up for more caps.

Heard him being interviewed. Watched him play. He's a very determined  clever bollix. Like the cut of his jib.  Hope he displaces and moves  SOB to 6. That would be nice.

I don't give a flying phooke what ye peasants say, but to move on up, like all great sides, we need a proper basterd 7.  I reckon Henry could be the One.

Given up on Jennings have ya Gibbo?  

Never Golden. Never. But his prime-time was wasted by two blind Cork basterds, who also wasted nearly 15 years of our phooking rugby time. It was slightly better than amateur. I know, cos Ive been there since the 70's

Me? Bitter?

Nah.

Our time is now. Ive waited over 40 years for this sea-change. No more false dawns. No more small-minded, inter-provincial bitterness. Its embarrassing. We are The People. We're not Welsh or English FFS.  No more dreaming Ireland. Lets build from here.

Believe.

It's late and I haven't read all the comments. Just want to say I am very disappointed with the whole match day 23. Shall probably be hiding behind the sofa watching it.

I really hope I am wrong.

Goodnight and good luck, Ireland.

Ah Kia pal. Not even to watch the token Munster players?

Bad show.

Yeah you liked the seventies alright, getting hammered by the welsh or the French, as for the cork boyos, you mean the one who had us winning triple crowns and consistently vying for the championship or the other who won us a grand slam. Maybe you prefer the corkman who captained Ireland in the early seventies, got us our best results against sh opposition and won us our first triple crown as coach in the eighties. Don't forget he also managed a draw as player and won as a manager against the ABs. Don't forget the few useless corkmen who also captained the team in the eighties...

but then you are a dub and therefore have a big invisible tattoo on you forehead..,

That hurt.

If joe were to continue rotating (a bit) with a backbone of core players he could do worse than

Healy, Best, Fitz/Archer, POC, Tuohy, McLaughlin, SOB, Heaslip, Reddan, Sexton, Earls(if back), Marshall, BOD, Bowe, Kearney

Cronin, Ross, McGrath, Toner, O'Mahoney, Murray, Madigan, McFadden

Just an example of the way I see that team. I think he is getting inexperienced (in the green jersey sense) guys in with a core of strong players and a core of players who are used to his system. Me likey

Not sure why a good few are despondent here. We have a bunch of injuries and lads on the bench not quite 100%. Backline looks strong to me, with lots of experience around jackson. Really hoping he can use the likes of tommy and kearney to open things up.

Just need to ensure we ensure quick ruck ball as these samoan's will be hunting for turnovers and quick counters from anywhere. Its why i like our backrow and second row- very mobile which schmidt no doubt will leverage.

littlejohn wrote:Not sure why a good few are despondent here. We have a bunch of injuries and lads on the bench not quite 100%. Backline looks strong to me, with lots of experience around jackson. Really hoping he can use the likes of tommy and kearney to open things up.

Just need to ensure we ensure quick ruck ball as these samoan's will be hunting for turnovers and quick counters from anywhere. Its why i like our backrow and second row- very mobile which schmidt no doubt will leverage.

Mobile is the last word I would use to describe the second row pairing..

I haven't been one of the despondent on this thread as I'm remaining pragmatic.  But I agree if there is one thing McCarthy and Toner aren't its mobile.  Tuohy been left out is a huge disappointment the way hes been playing.

Gibson wrote:

Notch wrote:I can't see O'Brien not coming in next week but I do believe Schmidt is appreciative of what Henry can offer at the breakdown and this is a big opportunity for Chris to impress and put his hand up for more caps.

Heard him being interviewed. Watched him play. He's a very determined  clever bollix. Like the cut of his jib.  Hope he displaces and moves  SOB to 6. That would be nice.

I don't give a flying phooke what ye peasants say, but to move on up, like all great sides, we need a proper basterd 7.  I reckon Henry could be the One.

Has anyone been watching the Heineken cup. Statistically O'Brien has made the most turnovers this season and has been able to combine that with some quality ball carrying from 7(hand off on Dan Biscuit speaks for itself).He is undoubtedly the form player in Europe at the moment and playing the best rugby of his career. And you're talking about playing the Chris Henry at 7(who incidentally is 29, 3 years older than SOB, and 5kg lighter), and shifting O'Brien to 6, are you crazy?
This guy is a decent club player, and nothing more. At 29, he is not an established international , and IMO he never will be!

Ja Rory, I see what ya mean. We're doomed.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xXQeyugDTc4

He's mobile. Great hands too. Keep up man.

Lol well done Toner for running alongside two props.. must be mobile then.  I'm not sure what that clip was supposed to show me.

Yes, he has good hands, but to describe Toner as even remotely mobile is laughable.

I am hardly claiming we are doomed, but that second row partnership is poor.  Shows more to me about our lack of depth there though, rather than a bad selection by Schmidt.

Lads it's good to see such great debate...

Firstly unlucky for Dan Tuohy but I'd expect him to be involved next week with the Oz match. More his game if you ask me...

Jack McGrath is a good shout however Moore and Fitz are unlucky. I would have rested Ross but I'd expect he won't start at least one of the other two tests!

Heaslip is a good choice as VC and I'd expect him to have learnt from his trip down under. There's good experience and youth a plenty in that team and I for one am glad to see the dynamo Chris Henry get a start. He's been one of those most deserving of a start over the past 12 months and hopefully he can show some of his provincial form in a green shirt!

Rory_Gallagher wrote:Lol well done Toner for running alongside two props.. must be mobile then.  I'm not sure what that clip was supposed to show me.

Yes, he has good hands, but to describe Toner as even remotely mobile is laughable.

I am hardly claiming we are doomed, but that second row partnership is poor.  Shows more to me about our lack of depth there though, rather than a bad selection by Schmidt.

Toner will run all day and same with mccarthy - schmidt will expect them to hit rucks hard and fast and help give our backs good ball. That and securing possession is all i'm expectjng from them.

Interesting team, bit disappointed at the lack of Marshall and Tuohy initially but I assume it's all about the gameplan;

Keep it tight and aggressive with a big heavy pack for the first 50/60mins, waves of Samoans breaking on the unmoving cliffs of D'Arcy and O'Driscoll and having the ball ripped in the ruck, Murray sending up bombs for Kearney, Bowe and McFadden to compete for with Jackson serenely running the show.

Last 20/30 mins with a score in it? Spring all the lads, Fitz and POC go after the Samoan set piece, Healy, Cronin and O'Brien run amok in the loose, Murray/Reddan speed up the delivery and if Joe's feeling particularly frisky, bring on the Madigan.

I'd be shocked if Marshall doesn't start against the Aussies. I wouldn't be shocked to see McLaughlin and Earls if fit either.

Rory_Gallagher wrote:

Artful_Dodger wrote:Has Schmidt gone for Henry at 7 because he wants a fetcher type 7 to produce quick attacking a ball and make a mess of the other teams ball?  If so and if it works how will miss out to Henry in the future out of O'Mahoney and O'Brien?  Assuming the answer is neither thus far...

I would love to see Henry have a good game, and if he does, he should be rewarded with a starting place.

It should be Heaslip who misses out, but sure.  As vice captain he is a definite starter.

If he can play as he did for that Lions game (can't remember which game) then he would deserve to be a definite starter and I would 100% back him.  He is very inconsistent though.  No, it isn't because he chooses not to carry and does the donkey work either.. He just has bad games.  He is becoming the irish Lydiate it seems.

I feel like I'm picking on yah Rory. And yer only a youngfellah n'all so I do feel a little guilty.

But you do keep committing blasphemy.

Ask any player who plays regularly with Jamie about his class (and I have) and you will hear how highly he is rated.

Ask SOB about playing 8 (and I have) and he will tell you it is his worst position in the back row. He can't hold a candle to Jamie in the technical aspects of playing 8.

The fact that SOB can more than hold is own at 8 is a testament to what an awesome rugby player he is. But don't forget that he has hardly ever played there in the last 3 years.

A fit Ferris + SOB and Heaslip is by a huge margin Ireland's back row.

There is a big drop back to O'Mahony (who I rate very highly, and has ability in ALL 3 back row positions)

There is another largish gap back to the rest. I am not a huge fan of Henry, but having teased out all the options he is currently the next best. Personally I think he moves at the speed of a glacier, which rules him out as a link man in the mould of Gleeson. Good on the deck (but not better than SOB there) and a very committed and solid player. Can also play 3 positions in the back row but not at test level imho.

I can't really see the Leinster tactics of starting Kev (O'Mahony) Sob and Jamie and then bringing on Jeno (Henry) working.

A/ This is test level and a totally different animal.
B/ Henry would not speed up the game in the way that Jeno does (imho)
C/ You lose a lot in the lineout by having SOB and Henry (admittedly not as much in losing POM as in Losing Kev there)

Jenifer McLadyboy wrote:

Rory_Gallagher wrote:

Artful_Dodger wrote:Has Schmidt gone for Henry at 7 because he wants a fetcher type 7 to produce quick attacking a ball and make a mess of the other teams ball?  If so and if it works how will miss out to Henry in the future out of O'Mahoney and O'Brien?  Assuming the answer is neither thus far...

I would love to see Henry have a good game, and if he does, he should be rewarded with a starting place.

It should be Heaslip who misses out, but sure.  As vice captain he is a definite starter.

If he can play as he did for that Lions game (can't remember which game) then he would deserve to be a definite starter and I would 100% back him.  He is very inconsistent though.  No, it isn't because he chooses not to carry and does the donkey work either.. He just has bad games.  He is becoming the irish Lydiate it seems.

 Personally I think he moves at the speed of a glacier, which rules him out as a link man in the mould of Gleeson. Good on the deck (but not better than SOB there) 

Oh do me a favour.

Artful_Dodger wrote:

Jenifer McLadyboy wrote:

Rory_Gallagher wrote:

Artful_Dodger wrote:Has Schmidt gone for Henry at 7 because he wants a fetcher type 7 to produce quick attacking a ball and make a mess of the other teams ball?  If so and if it works how will miss out to Henry in the future out of O'Mahoney and O'Brien?  Assuming the answer is neither thus far...

I would love to see Henry have a good game, and if he does, he should be rewarded with a starting place.

It should be Heaslip who misses out, but sure.  As vice captain he is a definite starter.

If he can play as he did for that Lions game (can't remember which game) then he would deserve to be a definite starter and I would 100% back him.  He is very inconsistent though.  No, it isn't because he chooses not to carry and does the donkey work either.. He just has bad games.  He is becoming the irish Lydiate it seems.

 Personally I think he moves at the speed of a glacier, which rules him out as a link man in the mould of Gleeson. Good on the deck (but not better than SOB there) 

Oh do me a favour.

What? You think he is fast? Or you think he is better than 2013 SOB on the deck?

PS. If either is all you can find fault with in my lengthy post then.......

And PPS Rory. It's not that Heaslip CHOOSES not to carry. Show me an 8 that would do that. Hopping up off the back of a scrum with the ball in your hands is probably THE best thing about being an 8. (from a selfish point of view)

It is that he follows team orders to do more ruck work or whatever.

profitius wrote:

pete (buachaill on eirne) wrote:In my eyes, the second set translates pretty well. Henry for Jennings with Heaslip and SOB should work.

I do not believe for even a moment that POM is a like for like with McLaughlin. I think POM is a good player but pretty overrated in Ireland as a whole. Even if he was a better player I still believe that leaves the balance of the backrow 'off' as POM doesn't get through enough donkey work to accommodate SOB and Heaslip to do what they do best.

In terms of horses for courses selections though....there aren't enough thumbs to put up to this

POM is probably the most underrated player playing for Ireland! He is consistently good to excellent and wins numerous MOTM awards especially in the big games and he is as important to Munster as POC is.


I don't know why you think he doesn't do enough the donkey work to accommodate Heaslip and SOB??

How can a player than consistently picks up MOTM awards be underrated?

I rate POM, I think he's currently our best option at 6 and he's been quality for Munster this season, so this has nothing to do with him, more that people seem to think players are underrated when clearly they're not.

Red Stag had a great rant about this in the past RE John Hayes, during the 6nations on a weekly basis pundits and fans alike would get misty eyed talking about Hayes and how he never gets any credit, missing out on the irony altogether.

Submachine wrote:Suprised at the lack of love for McCarthy. McCarthy/POC will be first choice pairing for Ireland until POC calls it a day even if everyone else including Ryan is fit. .

Completly disagree - I suspect Schmidt first choice is POC and Ryan with Henderson on the bench
We have the second string out there this weekend

hugo124 wrote:Annoyed Paddy and Ferg got the nod, Mads and Dave Kearns both have more potential!  

Madigan is not a game organiser, as George Hook has been banging on about, and it is one of the reason he has lost the No 10 shirt at Leinster.

Jackson is three years younger than Madigan and is already ahead of him in Schmidt eyes - that shows where the long term potential lies.

McFadden has more experience, covers 13 and offers a kicking option Kearney has none of those.

Schmidt got both selections right

Backrow is very interesting - are 3 players playing for 2 positions next week?

Given SOB will return what happens if Henry has a blinder and out performs his backrow team mates?

I'm not convinced Henry is any weaker on the deck than O'Brien at HEC level and we haven't really seen enough at international level to judge. (understand I'm not saying Henry is a better player) 

I understand about the pace thing. He certainly isn't lightning quick but his support play has never been an issue for us or I can't recall a time it effected ulster. He has a chance anyway. If he plays well enough to even make joe consider shifting O'Brien to 6 he will have had a storming game

What Henry is is a very smart player -counts for a lot.
Has that ability to anticipate where play will be before it happens.
BOD is supreme in that regard but Henry is pretty good

To clear whilst I am less than enthused at the selection at 12 - can live with it provided Marshall gets a look in in one of the other matches.

I am also very concerned about our second row which I think is not good enough

BUT make no mistake I will be cheering all the guys on come Saturday afternoon from my seat and look forward to a great day out and the first step on a new, positive, era for Irish rugby

Schmidt made some interesting comment re Henry - that he really likes Henry's work on the deck and strength on the ball but that he was being penalised too much and he had to work at knowing when to release and also to come in onside on the ball.

Henry is quality -  a real thinking mans player, not the best athlete but reads the game really well and has a knack of popping up were the ball is at key times which is the hall mark of a great 7. His work rate game in game out is off the chart too.

I don't believe he'll displace SOB at 7 though. SOB is top 3 in world rugby in that position in my opinion.

6 is the problem position - Ferris is badly missed there. POM is a natural 8 for me and doesn't have the natural physicality for blindside. Diack, McLaughlin etc. are good club men but average at this level.

Ruddock has looked good this season and maybe he's the guy who can replace Ferris...

What about SOB moving to 8 then with heaslip giving way? I'd personally have POM now nailed in at 6 unless Ferris returns. Sob has played at 8 a fair bit and surely giving him more access to ball carrying is a good thing for ireland?

Have to agree with the Leinsterheads on O'Brien to 8. I think a lot of us just assume playing at 8 he will get more opportunity to steamroller the opposition but it doesn't work like that. I don't think he would be strong there. Unless I'm missing something I think O'Mahoney has been playing 8 at Munster and with some distinction. That will hopefully help drive performances out of Heaslip.

6 is the issue and I don't see a problem with O'Mahoney or O'Brien playing there depending on the makeup of the backrow. If fez comes back then bonus!

We could start Australia with

SOB, POM, Henry
SOB, Heaslip, Henry
POM, Heaslip, SOB

hence my comment - it is all to play for this weekend

geoff998rugby wrote:
SOB, POM, Henry
SOB, Heaslip, Henry
POM, Heaslip, SOB

That one doesn't work for me Geoff. Its pretty lightweight and it means O'Mahoney is the only lineout option at the tail.

Heaslip is still pretty important as a specialist no8 I think. Until such time as POM can displace him I don't see his place being under any threat.

SOB is too small for 6 or 8 imo. He can't play that battering ram role anymore, since the hip op. He can still carry alright but needs to do it more sparingly.

Agreed in the sense that of the 3 I consider by far the least likely.

It should be:

8 Heaslip
7 Henry
6 O'Brien

That is our best option or SOB to 7 if Ferris is fit.

geoff998rugby wrote:

hugo124 wrote:Annoyed Paddy and Ferg got the nod, Mads and Dave Kearns both have more potential!  

Madigan is not a game organiser, as George Hook has been banging on about, and it is one of the reason he has lost the No 10 shirt at Leinster.

Jackson is three years younger than Madigan and is already ahead of him in Schmidt eyes - that shows where the long term potential lies.

McFadden has more experience, covers 13 and offers a kicking option Kearney has none of those.

Schmidt got both selections right

You're right.  I see those other two chancers were demoted to the bench too and shows us all just what Schmidt thinks of them... O'Connell and O'Brien, that is....

You're all thinking linearly...and Joe Schmidt doesn't.  You're all thinking, first 15 considered best - bench, crap.  Many of you need an education in Schmidtism.

SecretFly wrote:

geoff998rugby wrote:

hugo124 wrote:Annoyed Paddy and Ferg got the nod, Mads and Dave Kearns both have more potential!  

Madigan is not a game organiser, as George Hook has been banging on about, and it is one of the reason he has lost the No 10 shirt at Leinster.

Jackson is three years younger than Madigan and is already ahead of him in Schmidt eyes - that shows where the long term potential lies.

McFadden has more experience, covers 13 and offers a kicking option Kearney has none of those.

Schmidt got both selections right

You're right.  I see those other two chancers were demoted to the bench too and shows us all just what Schmidt thinks of them... O'Connell and O'Brien, that is....

You're all thinking linearly...and Joe Schmidt doesn't.  You're all thinking, first 15 considered best - bench, crap.  Many of you need an education in Schmidtism.

You have jumped to a load of conclusion there with respect to my post all of which are false - impressive  

Oh I saw the bit that mattered to my appraisal, geoff.  That bit about Jackson already being ahead of Madigan "in Schmidt's eyes".

That may indeed be true - but you're not getting any of your evidence from the way Schmidt selected positions for this first game.  That's you over-reading - which I'll let you off with ths time as we is all nervous and excited in equal measure

But just to continue the logic of my thoughts.  Which is the more important game?  Samoa or Australia?  Both you'll shout! Correct.
But which is the more high-profile game?  Australia.  
Now given Schmidt's views on rotation, and keeping his players fresh and involved - Jackson will most likely have most if not all of this game against Samoa.  Madigan therefore might have a section of the Australian game if Sexton is numero uno for that one.  If Jackson wasn't on the bench, I suppose that would be seen as a snub in some quarters?  Not by me, it wouldn't.  As I do believe Schmidt will actually activate a true International squad system rather than talk one. Schmidtism

But it's all up in the air - we're all guessing.  Only truth is that Schmidt is not close to handing out 'favouritism' stickers this early into his tenure.

Are there really people that think O'Brien is better on the deck than Henry?  

...why? Thats very strange. Is this the same school of thought that holds that Toner is more mobile than Tuohy?

Notch wrote:Are there really people that think O'Brien is better on the deck than Henry?  

...why? Thats very strange. Is this the same school of though that holds that Toner is more mobile than Tuohy?  

I dont really. They would be about the same, though Henry is more suited to being a 7 than SOB who is a better 6 or 8.

rodders wrote:

geoff998rugby wrote:
SOB, POM, Henry
SOB, Heaslip, Henry
POM, Heaslip, SOB

That one doesn't work for me Geoff. Its pretty lightweight and it means O'Mahoney is the only lineout option at the tail.

Heaslip is still pretty important as a specialist no8 I think. Until such time as POM can displace him I don't see his place being under any threat.

SOB is too small for 6 or 8 imo. He can't play that battering ram role anymore, since the hip op. He can still carry alright but needs to do it more sparingly.

According to stats he is the same height/weight as the likes of Faletau.  I would say he is fairly bigger as well if they were accurate.  He has also been carrying like he used to recently so I'm not sure about the hip operation thing.

O'Brien may or may not be as good at 8, but I do know he has had some storming games there.  I remember one Ulster game in particular a few years back where O'Brien played 8 and Ruddock played 6, and they literally ran riot.  SOB with 2 tries.

The thing with O'Brien is, he can play all 3 back row positions and he will still be class, which helps when we look to our back row options.

Notch wrote:Are there really people that think O'Brien is better on the deck than Henry?  

...why? Thats very strange. Is this the same school of thought that holds that Toner is more mobile than Tuohy?

Well it isn't that strange, in the HEC game against the Ospreys O'Brien totally outplayed Tipuric in that regard, who is considered one of the best around on the deck.

However, I do think Henry is more consistent when it comes to the breakdown.

I was pretty irked by Liam Toland in todays Irish Times. He was talking about how Schmidt has 22 games before the 2015 RWC to get his squad sorted out- and then suggests that because Jackson appears to be ahead of Madigan for this series he only has 19 games left to find a back-up to Sexton for that tournament  

I love being Irish, and I love supporting my team in international rugby but sometimes the press bias against some of our players is very pronounced and it makes it very difficult to stay objective.

Hope Paddy has an absolute stormer tomorrow. A 21-year old outhalf starting for Ireland is a pretty big vote of confidence. ROG was 22 and a few weeks shy of his 23rd birthday when he made his debut, Humphreys was 25, Madigan was 23 and a few weeks short of his 24th birthday and Sexton was 24.

By the time the Rugby World Cup comes Paddy will be about the age when his peers and predecessors were only first being considered for Ireland honours but with several extra years experience playing in the big games for his province and some for his country too.

Of course, his age won't mean a thing when the game kicks off. It'll be about how he runs the backline, if he makes his tackles, if he kicks his goals and pulls us around the park. As it should be. But it pishes me off to see him being written off at an age when the other guys who have played 10 for Ireland in the professional era were being handled with kid gloves. He's had two different coaches at provincial level and two different coaches at international level and all four have been happy to throw him into the big games at a very early stage of his career.

Toland played for Leinster so its hardly surprising that he would lean towards Madigan. He seem concerned about Jackson's defense? Do you refute that concern?

As I read it the main subject of the article is foreign players slowing Irish progression and I agree. Gopperth might be playing well but Madigan should be given the reigns in the big games.

Jackson is a very good player but his place kicking is a concern for me. Partially because he doesnt always kick for Ulster but also because he had a torrid time last 6N for Ireland off the tee. Hopefully he wont have to kick.

Have to agree with Notch. Very disrespectful toward Jackson. Makes a flippant remark about a non existant defensive vulnerability and completely writes off the next three games in terms of developing a 2nd choice 10 as Jackson will play more than Madigan. Surprised his editor allowed this.

Who cares about what people write in the media. I know players and coaches won't.

GunsGerms wrote:Toland played for Leinster so its hardly surprising that he would lean towards Madigan. He seem concerned about Jackson's defense? Do you refute that concern?

Yeah, thought that remark was very peculiar indeed as Paddy is a good defender for a 10 who doesn't shirk the physical stuff.

Not saying that they can't make yards down his channel- you've just to watch their last test against South Africa to see the likes of Mulipola knocking out Siya Kolisi with a big carry. You'd say Siya Kolisi is a pretty good defender in most situations but some of these guys have incredible power! It's going to be a tough day for us in defence from 1 to 15. Whats strange is seeing Jackson getting singled out before the game as it hasn't been a weakness of his game at all in his career so far.

I'm sure they will try and send some power runners down his channel early on to try and unsettle him, it'll be a good test for him but he's no doormat either. He's tougher than Toland gives him credit for.

I would argue his defence is something that he has over madigan (not that Ian's is bad either). I think he is one of the best defensive 10s in the HEC, sexton being the benchmark in that regard. Didn't read the article as it would just annoy me.