Wales vs South Africa match buildup.

OK boys, this weekend Wales and South Africa will both attempt to begin their Autumn Internationals with a win.

Both teams for different reasons.

Wales will want to build on their Six Nations form of the last two years, they will want to confirm to themselves that the British and Irish Lions tour was won because of their players, and they will want to progress from being Northern Hemisphere kings, to a team that has the ability to beat South Africa, New Zealand and Australia.

In my view, and possibly in the view of their supporters the time is now, it has been a while since Wales has been so dominant in Europe, the only thing missing before they can call themselves world beaters is to take the next step.

How much of it is mental, how much of it is due to the fact that they struggle to put 80 minute performances together I cannot be certain of, but what I do know is they have the ability, sadly it seems Cuthbert and Roberts will not be part of what I deem as the most talented and dangerous backline in Europe. For two reasons I might add, it is the most settled back line in Europe, and also very experienced.

Since the World Cup in 2011, Wales have won 9 of their 10 Six Nations matches, undoubtedly a very good record, however their problem was the seven match losing streak in between the two Six Nations.

South Africa on the other hand, has a new coach, been there for near two full seasons and he has made a difference.

Still not yet consistent, the concern is always how will Meyer ensure that the springboks perform on a consistent basis. In the past 18 months under Heyneke Meyer the boks had their fair share of poor games.

Last year out of the twelve test matches played the springboks managed to win 7 tests, drew 2 and lost three.

Although the three tests they lost were against New Zealand (twice) and Australia, there were a number of other performances that were not up to par. England in the third test at home, Argentina in Mendoza and New Zealand at home, those were poor performances by South Africa.

Although they went through the Autumn internationals unbeaten the were less than convincing.

I suppose the positive out of the performances were even when they played poorly, they managed to be on the right side of the scoreboard most of the time.

Although South Africa has shown improvement this year, the consistency is still under question.

The one aspect of their game that has improved immeasurably is their positive approach to attacking play, looking at the number of tries scored this year in comparison to last year it makes for astounding reading, in 2012 during 12 matches South Africa managed only 23 tries, conceding 16. This year in 9 tests they have managed 39 tries, conceding 18 tries.

Only New Zealand have managed to score regular tries against SA, totalling 15 tries in the last two years, the rest of their opponents only managed 19 tries in 17 matches.

Wales during 2012 managed to score 20 tries in conceding 17 in their 13 matches. During 2013 in their seven tests to date, they managed 11 tries, conceding 7.

If South Africa continues with their positive approach  to attacking plays I believe Wales will be hard pressed, their defence will have to be up to par, there is no doubt Wales will have a positive approach to the game, so from that perspective it should be an entertaining match.

There are some questions over the selections Meyer will make, will he bring Jaque Fourie, JP Pietersen and Bakkies Botha in for the first tour match, which would add significantly to the experience of the team, or will he give debutant Pieter Steph du Toit his first cap?

Of course Willie le Roux and JJ Engelbrecht may yet be inexperienced, but in my view it would be unfair to summarily dismiss them in favour of the old hands.

Wales have a few selection issues as well, who will replace Cuthbert and Roberts, and the ultimate question, will Phillips’ disciplinary record affect his chances for selection?

I still wonder who is the best fly half in Wales.

Come what may, this match should be a tough encounter, will SA prove they have made the step up and show consistency, or will Wales make the next leap towards world domination?

Springbok team for Wales.

The Springbok team to face Wales in Cardiff is:

15. Pat Lambie 29 caps 55 points
14. JP Pietersen 48 caps 70 points
13. Jaque Fourie 69 caps 160 points
12. Jean de Villiers (captain) 93 caps 120 points
11. Bryan Habana 92 caps 265 points
10. Morné Steyn 51 caps 618 points
9. Fourie du Preez 65 caps 70 points
8. Duane Vermeulen 13 caps 5 points
7. Willem Alberts 27 caps 30 points
6. Francois Louw 25 caps 25 points
5. Flip van der Merwe 31 caps 5 points
4. Eben Etzebeth 20 caps 0 points
3. Frans Malberhe 0 caps 0 points
2. Bismarck du Plessis (v-captain) 54 caps 40 points
1. Tendai Mtawarira 50 caps 10 points
Replacements:
16. Adriaan Strauss 30 caps 25 points
17. Gurthrö Steenkamp 46 caps 30 points
18. Coenie Oosthuizen 11 caps 5 points
19. Pieter-Steph du Toit 0 caps 0 points
20. Siya Kolisi 8 caps 0 points
21. Ruan Pienaar 71 caps 130 points
22. JJ Engelbrecht 10 caps 20 points
23. Willie le Roux 9 caps 15 points

Wales team for South Africa
Wales

15 Leigh Halfpenny,
14 George North,
13 Jonathan Davies,
12 Scott Williams,
11 Eli Walker,
10 Rhys Priestland,
9 Mike Phillips,
8 Toby Faletau,
7 Sam Warburton (captain),
6 Dan Lydiate,
5 Alun Wyn Jones,
4 Bradley Davies,
3 Adam Jones,
2 Richard Hibbard,
1 Gethin Jenkins

Substitutes: 16 Ken Owens, 17 Paul James, 18 Scott Andrews, 19 Luke Charteris, 20 Justin Tipuric, 21 Lloyd Williams, 22 James Hook, 23 Liam Williams

Bil,

I think as most of our recent results this will again be a close one, maybe to close to call. Hopefully the players will go into game thinking they can win it, it's us fans that are more nervous due to our poor record against the SH boys.

I think the Cuthbert and Roberts issue is covered, I can see Liam and Scott Williams filling the positions respectively.

Liam, whilst bit of a maverick is in good form and certainly won't fear facing you guys, Scott has proved as well that he's on top form and has been part of the set up for some while now.

Fly half as ever in Wales is always the talking point but again both Biggar and Priestland are on form, I think Biggar should start as we should play a tactical game to start but I have sneaky feeling that with the likely centre pairing of Davies and Williams then Priestland will get the nod.

Priestland should start, for my money. When he's on song - which he has been this season - Priestland's kicking out of hand is just as good as Biggar's, but in addition to that he's a proper heads-up outside half who knows when it's on and when it's not.

I expect SA to win well.

I think the new scrummaging interpretations will negate Wales scrum significantly

I think the form SA are showing is simply too good

I think Gatland selects too much on big strong guys and doesn't select to use the attacking prowess of the backs he has available so I don't think Wales will be able to outscore SA and will not be able to prevent them scoring. Who knows tho really. Its a one off game and anything can happen. I just hope Wales soften SA up enough to help Scotland

TJ, I hope the third Lions Test will be an indicator that Gatland will give Halfpenny licence to counter-attack, which he's never really been given in the past for Wales. Someone said on another thread that we're never going to overpower the Boks, so we'll need to play some rugby when the chance arises.

Luckless Pedestrian wrote:TJ, I hope the third Lions Test will be an indicator that Gatland will give Halfpenny licence to counter-attack, which he's never really been given in the past for Wales. Someone said on another thread that we're never going to overpower the Boks, so we'll need to play some rugby when the chance arises.

I agree - this is why I would not play Phillips as he slows the back play down too much nor play two bosh bosh centres. Maybe Phillips indescretions will actually help wales as a quick SH will be a huge asset IMO.

I'd leave Phillips out if it was up to me. He can take too much on himself as it is, but after what's happened at Bayonne, the chances are he'll be out to prove a point and will be even worse. Rhodri Williams is sharp, quick and a fairly physical scrum half in his own right. I'd play him.

I believe the way for Wales to beat the boks is to use the attacking abilities Wales have in the back 3. This needs quick ball moved wide quickly and to vary the game a lot. A simple predictable power game will not work.

I'll nail my colours to the mast now, I would pick -;

Li Williams, Halfpenny, Davies, Sc Williams, North, Priestland, Phillips; James, Hibbard, A Jones, AWJ, Evans, Lydiate, Warburton, Faletau. (bench-: Owens, Jenkins, Andrews, Coombs, Tipuric; Rh Williams, Biggar, Walker)

However I have a feeling it is going to be the team that beat England, with Scott Williams in for Roberts, and Eli Walker in for Cuthbert.

Have they said when the team's going to be announced?

Not confident at all, a lot of Welsh players look a bit slow and tired.
South Africa on the other hand look like they are ready to peak over this month.
We won't get hammered but i can't see us threatening to win it.

will the boks ask for the roof open or shut .

Fourie *spelling* seemed to suggest in a scrumV interview that Wales should have it shut.

jimmyinthewell68 wrote:will the boks ask for the roof open or shut .

Open in case Etzebeth bangs his head.

Undoubtedly Wales have a very good team at the moment and will be looking to win this one and I hope they do. They are good enough to win but have to vault some stumbling blocks:

-Outhalf. Some really good options in Priestland and Biggar but no one has really made the jersey their own yet.

-History. 1999 was the one and only time Wales have come out on top v SA. This stat may play on the Welsh players minds and boost SAs confidence.

-Mike Philips. On form a very good player but can be inconsistent. Wales will him firing on all cylinders.

Given the current injury list what do welsh supporters reckon the likely team will be ?...EDITED: ah scarlet just spotted your post 1/2 penny on wing..interesting

jimmyinthewell68 wrote:will the boks ask for the roof open or shut .

Think the rule should change and Wales should be allowed to dictate themselves if they want it shut or closed. Its a home game for them so let them make the call.

sirtidychris wrote:Given the current injury list what do welsh supporters reckon the likely team will be ?...EDITED: ah scarlet just spotted your post 1/2 penny on wing..interesting

We have had worse injury lists in the past I think both Williams' will come in and both are on form. Sc Williams has been a part of the set up for a while now and played well at this level.

Sure I heard Tuesday for squad announcement.

SS,

That would be my side to bar I would swap Halfpenny and Williams for me Leigh is way above anyone else we have at XV and can't think what more he has to do to prove it to people.

GunsGerms wrote:

jimmyinthewell68 wrote:will the boks ask for the roof open or shut .

Think the rule should change and Wales should be allowed to dictate themselves if they want it shut or closed. Its a home game for them so let them make the call.

Henke Meyer (sp?) Has said he wouldn't mind horrible conditions when playing Wales which suggests he wants the roof open  

And if he wants it open, it stays open.

When does the call have to be made? Day of the game?

Don't blame him after the noise the crowd made against England, the commentators looked deafened

meyers names his team Wednesday . prob gats Thursday i should imagine . Wales team picks itself . two Williams in for the injured . only number six be interesting , do gats go for warburton at 6 tips at seven like the England game or Dan in at six

Dan at 6 - tips on the bench - great against tired legs

I would expect Meyer to select the following team.

1. Beast Mtwarira
2. bismarck du plessis
3. Coenie Oosthuizen
4. Bakkies Botha
5. Eben Etzebeth
6. Frans Louw
7. Willem Alberts
8. Duane Vermeulen
9. Fourie du Preez
10. Morne Steyn
11. Bryan Habana
12. Jean de Villiers
13. Jaque Fourie
14. Willie le Roux
15. Zane Kirchner

16. Gurthro Steenkamp
17. Adriaan Strauss
18. Frans Malherbe
19. Pieter Steph du Toit
20. Siya Kolisi
21. Ruan Pienaar
22. JP Pietersen
23. JJ Engelbrecht.

Thats a nasty looking team  

jimmyinthewell68 wrote:meyers names his team Wednesday . prob gats Thursday i should imagine . Wales team picks itself  . two Williams in for the injured .  only number six be interesting ,    do gats go for warburton at 6  tips at seven like the England game or Dan in at six

For me no question to be asked, Dan is way above anything else we have at 6 and you have to start with your best XV.

So Tips should be starting above Warbs then ?  

Biltong wrote:I would expect Meyer to select the following team.

1. Beast Mtwarira
2. bismarck du plessis
3. Coenie Oosthuizen
4. Bakkies Botha
5. Eben Etzebeth
6. Frans Louw
7. Willem Alberts
8. Duane Vermeulen
9. Fourie du Preez
10. Morne Steyn
11. Bryan Habana
12. Jean de Villiers
13. Jaque Fourie
14. Willie le Roux
15. Zane Kirchner

16. Gurthro Steenkamp
17. Adriaan Strauss
18. Frans Malherbe
19. Pieter Steph du Toit
20. Siya Kolisi
21. Ruan Pienaar
22. JP Pietersen
23. JJ Engelbrecht.

Jeez, that's a decent enough team, shades of yester-year in the 11-13 combo. I have to say, if South Africa turn up, I think even with home advantage Wales will struggle. There is so much power up front for SA and if the game opens up, well we saw in the NZ vs SA match that there is firepower out wide too.

Should be a great game for the neutral, far more exciting that England vs Arg at least.

Fourie. Didnt realise he was available for selection. How did I miss that?

Yep - can't help thinking I am glad its you guys playing SA not us. We do get NZ but at least we don't have realistic expectations of that one.

Biltong wrote:I would expect Meyer to select the following team.

1. Beast Mtwarira
2. bismarck du plessis
3. Coenie Oosthuizen
4. Bakkies Botha
5. Eben Etzebeth
6. Frans Louw
7. Willem Alberts
8. Duane Vermeulen
9. Fourie du Preez
10. Morne Steyn
11. Bryan Habana
12. Jean de Villiers
13. Jaque Fourie
14. Willie le Roux
15. Zane Kirchner

16. Gurthro Steenkamp
17. Adriaan Strauss
18. Frans Malherbe
19. Pieter Steph du Toit
20. Siya Kolisi
21. Ruan Pienaar
22. JP Pietersen
23. JJ Engelbrecht.

The thought of Bakkies and Yster Etzebeth lining up together should ring alarm bells for any team . Bakkies clearing out and Etzebeth bringing the pain . Matter of fact that entire pack is scary , and i'm glad Jannie is not touring . He misses way too many tackles.

As for the backline Du Preez and Steyn are tried and tested , Jean and Jaque even more so and JDV has been in ridiculous form , hopefully Jaque Fourie is up to it . My only concern is Habana and Kirchner . Would have prefered JPP and Le Roux and Aplon .

Wales can beat the Boks but will they ? I think not . Theres too much being made of the Lions victory over what has been the worst Aussie side in living memory . If Wales go into the game with the Lions memories they'll get a rude awakening from a much superior Bok team . Should be a good game though

i think most sane people writing off Wales chances . Wales need to be their utter best and a little help from the ref be nice . 

Who is the ref?

De villiers  

munkian wrote:De villiers  

Well if Wales show some of your form today Saturday should be easy

I wonder if Meyer will throw in Jaque after so long out. More likely a bench option to work his way back???

For the first time in years i'm not 100% confident in our scrum. I hope Adam regains form, if we target their scrum and get those penalties over then im sure we can do it. Gethin will have Coonie as he is mainly a loos head and hasn't matured as a scrummaging international prop yet. I hope Adam gets back to his best and destroys the beast.
A predict a physical battle, all this hype about Etzabeth, hold on haven't we got our own enforcer with Alyn Wyn. I would be a bit scared though if Bakkies starts though, hopefully they will stick with Kruger  
Come on Wales

Also one thing to keep in mind is that the RC has played 6 tests with the new rules... the NH players have only had a few club matches.

Are the Welsh players up to speed yet?

I expect it to be Eben & Flip.. Eben and Bakkies can't run a lineout and they have no major jumper in the back either. Flip is a good LO caller.

Disagree FA, Eben has been used for line out calls end of last year tour.

A little dangerous I think. Not even trusted for WP or the Stormers.

He's still a little too young for me.... too head strong and most likely to call ball for himself rather than use himself as a decoy like Matfiled used to do so well...

Its what Bekker himself fell down too often, he wanted to be "the man". I fear Eben would fall into the same trap. With time it will develop but he has to mature a little first.

fa0019 wrote:A little dangerous I think. Not even trusted for WP or the Stormers.

He's still a little too young for me.... too head strong and most likely to call ball for himself rather than use himself as a decoy like Matfiled used to do so well...

Its what Bekker himself fell down too often, he wanted to be "the man". I fear Eben would fall into the same trap. With time it will develop but he has to mature a little first.

Hadnt actually thought of that . Its times like these i actually miss Spies coz he was a decent lineout option . And good point about Matfield , teams would spend hours analysing him and the only time he'd jump is when he stole opposition ball. Was beautiful to watch . Actually now that i think about it , doesnt PDST jump?

This is the match I'm looking forward to the most, we have come close in the past few encounters with the Boks(albeit they were worse sides than this relatively) but I think Wales have improved since the world cup, become more settled and developed some strength in depth. The problem is they can switch off for periods of a game, the performance against England last year was an 80 minute performance, we need to repeat that mentality. And not switch off for a half like against Ireland.

IronMike wrote:This is the match I'm looking forward to the most, we have come close in the past few encounters with the Boks(albeit they were worse sides than this relatively) but I think Wales have improved since the world cup, become more settled and developed some strength in depth. The problem is they can switch off for periods of a game, the performance against England last year was an 80 minute performance, we need to repeat that mentality. And not switch off for a half like against Ireland.

They might have switched off for a half v Ireland but in they past when behind Wales used to crumble. The manner in which they fought back was impressive and suggests to me that althought they didnt win in the end they may now have the guile to close out tight games.

Bullsbok wrote:

fa0019 wrote:A little dangerous I think. Not even trusted for WP or the Stormers.

He's still a little too young for me.... too head strong and most likely to call ball for himself rather than use himself as a decoy like Matfiled used to do so well...

Its what Bekker himself fell down too often, he wanted to be "the man". I fear Eben would fall into the same trap. With time it will develop but he has to mature a little first.

Hadnt actually thought of that . Its times like these i actually miss Spies coz he was a decent lineout option . And good point about Matfield , teams would spend hours analysing him and the only time he'd jump is when he stole opposition ball. Was beautiful to watch . Actually now that i think about it , doesnt PDST jump?

Its not just about jumping its about calling though... I think both Du Toit and Etzebeth have a chance to make it as a 5 but putting it on a kid is quite a lot. Kids are generally more aggressive, in your face types who want to stand up to the opposition.. Matfield was never like that, if he was marked up went Spies, up went Russouw, up went Smith. The options were huge, breaking down the boks lineout was like deciphering chess.

SA looks pretty vunerable at the moment... They hardly ever go anywhere bar middle and occasionally front. Back ball doesn't exist at the moment.

Some news from Meyer today.

Heyneke hints at mixing and matching
04 November 2013, 17:29

Heyneke Meyer has given the first indication that the coming tour of Wales, Scotland and France may see him depart from what most critics appear to be expecting him to, which is to stick to the policy of playing the best team in every test.

On the last end of year tour Meyer stuck largely to the same starting team for all three matches, but on this trip it appears he might be prepared to relax his continuity in selection policy just a little, with fringe players set to benefit by getting a playing opportunity in the middle match of the tour in Edinburgh.

Whereas for most of the southern season Meyer stuck largely with the same players who helped the Boks to a second place in the Castle Lager Rugby Championship and beat all opponents in the southern hemisphere season outside of New Zealand, the coach used the first tour press conference in Cardiff to sketch an alternative plan for this trip.

According to Meyer, this tour is not about winning every match, although naturally the Boks will be playing to win, but about throwing different players into the mix to see if they will sink and swim in the conditions that the Boks will encounter at the World Cup two years from now.

“Next year we will pick the best team and try to get them playing together for as many games as possible, but right now, two years out from the World Cup, I want to find out if some of the guys can make it,” said Meyer.

“You still want to win games now, but I would rather see mistakes now than at the World Cup. You need to give guys opportunities (to show what they can do). If I remember last year’s tour to the north, we learned a lot about the players. Some aren’t with the team any more, while others have gone from strength to strength.

“I have decided that it really doesn’t matter what happens in the first game against Wales, some players will get a chance against Scotland. And by the end of the tour we should know at least 25 to 30 players who will go to the World Cup.”

The conditions prevalent in the UK at the moment present this trip as the perfect opportunity to see what the players can do in northern hemisphere conditions, and his pledge to spread the net and give fringe players a chance will be met with the approval of most Bok supporters.

Just what Meyer means when he talks about giving players a chance is something we may have to wait until next week to find out. Ahead of the Incoming Tours Series in South Africa in June, Meyer also spoke about spreading the net. While the number of players used off the bench suggested he succeeded in that objective, there wasn’t as much change in the starting team as some might have anticipated.

Patrick Lambie is one who could benefit if Meyer sticks to his word by giving players a chance against Scotland. He has played several games off the bench this season but is yet to start at international level and after his solid performances in the UK on the last November tour, he is probably owed at least one opportunity to show what he can do in the No 10 jersey.

They will surely play first team Wales, experimental Scotland, first team France.

Don't have a clue how this game will go.

I'm a bit worried though - SA were excellent against NZ in their last test, and the potential starting teams if fearsome, while Wales will miss Robert's defensive duties and the try-scoring ability on Cuthbert (who has been our top try scorer for a while now)

If Wales show early season rust, they will be in trouble - for notorious slow starters, SA first up is not good. Just look what happened at the start of the 6Ns.

This game will be won on defence against the power SA forwards and backs. Lydiate is bound to start to combat the SA backrow carriers and I think Gethin & Charteris will start for the same reason.

Again, losing Roberts is a big blow - he may not dazzle anymore, but he has been a defensive rock in midfield and organises the backs defence (we really missed him in Aus last year for example)


Wales need to frustrate the SA pack early on and then look to spoil ball for the SA backs and see if they make errors with their new ambition to counter-attack. Either force the errors or force the kick and hope Halfpenny and North are on-form on the counter (I would select Liam Williams on the wing for his defensive and aerial skills over Walker)

Scrums, lineouts and breakdown will be key. Lineout should be fairly even, breakdown will fall to the ref and the contact area, but I am worried about the scrum with Adam's form - and it could be a reason to start Paul James.

.....I have no idea what is going to happen

The decision on who plays 6 for Wales could have a big bearing on the result.

Lydiate would seem to match up best with the likes of Alberts (I still have nightmares about what he did against England 2 summers ago), but the dual openside combo of Warbs and Tips could give you lads a massive advantage at the breakdown ..

I'm just not so sure I would play Tips from the start against the SA back row, bloody Vermuelen is the smallest guy there and he's massive!

Do you guys favour Lydiate or Tips to start?