Finally the final World Tour Finals Final Thread

[JuliusHMarx]

First topic message reminder :

You heard it hear first. Popcorn available in the lobby.

[socal1976]

No sadness for Nadal a great year this season

[socal1976]

His english has become so much better good on you Nadal

[CAS]

Castle annoys me so much, talks so much rubbish. He kept saying Novak has 7 slams, such a big error for a commentator. He talks to the audience like they know nothing, it irritates me so much. Imagine Martin Tyler or Gary Neville talking like that during a big match (for those football fans here) give the viewers some credit

[LuvSports!]

Have a good one KR, beast mode!

[socal1976]

When they thank the sponsors they should say "I would love to thank the sponsor's for making me filthy rich"

[Guest]

Very accomplished & getting emotional towards the end speech from Nadal.

[Guest]

A city that nurtures tennis tradition ... another accomplished speech from Djokovic

[kingraf]

great season. Sets things up night nicely for 2013. Will in all likelihood be off 606 until about February unless by some miracle Ethiopia has some internet connection in the two weeks I'm there, or I'm not arrested again in a Mozambican/ Zimbabwean/Angolan prison. Happy holidays to you all, and stay safe.

Take care KR, I will miss you, don't bend over to pick up the soap.

Haha thanks Socal.. actually meant January, not February. My fingers seem to be ignoring the commands of my mind. Been to a Zimbabwean jail last year. The amount of foreigners detained for refusing to pay bribes means even I'm imprisoned, I'd better sooner remember not to drop the Jack of hearts playing Bridge than the soap. Will miss your Socal-isms as well!!

[JuliusHMarx]

Great end to the season for Djoko. Back in the groove it seems.
Shows how quickly things can change. 2 or 3 months ago Rafa was unbeatable, now it's Djoko who's unbeatable. I'm sure he'll be very happy with the way the momentum has shifted.

[kingraf]

thanks LS - been through Africa a few times now... Never ceases to amaze me, the place.

[JuliusHMarx]

great season. Sets things up night nicely for 2013. Will in all likelihood be off 606 until about February unless by some miracle Ethiopia has some internet connection in the two weeks I'm there, or I'm not arrested again in a Mozambican/ Zimbabwean/Angolan prison. Happy holidays to you all, and stay safe.

Take care KR, I will miss you, don't bend over to pick up the soap.

Haha thanks Socal.. actually meant January, not February. My fingers seem to be ignoring the commands of my mind. Been to a Zimbabwean jail last year. The amount of foreigners detained for refusing to pay bribes means even I'm imprisoned, I'd better sooner remember not to drop the Jack of hearts playing Bridge than the soap. Will miss your Socal-isms as well!!

Socalism is just a watered down version of Marxism.

[socal1976]

Either way have a great time and chat soon Kr. I agree Nore both guys gave really great speeches, so impressed by Nadal's english now and he did get quite emotional and Novak as well went out of his way to stroke the London crowd and congratulated Nadal on finishing number 1, nice touch since he took it from Novak.

[Guest]

... Shows how quickly things can change. 2 or 3 months ago Rafa was unbeatable, now it's Djoko who's unbeatable. ...

Indeed, like me. I am currently unbeaten and will remain unbeaten as long as they don't find me in my hidden bunker.

[socal1976]

Don't worry about the so-calisms, KR you will be back soon enough and we will have many more Nadalovic matches to cheer on.

[JuliusHMarx]

Have a great time KR!

[kingraf]

thanks so much everyone!

[Danny_1982]

I really like Novak as a bloke. He's a great character and has a great sense of fun as well as a touch of class. As much class as you can have when you're a competetive machine who wants to beat everyone.

I think he'll get the number 1 back in the not too distant future.

But he ain't unbeatable, that's for sure. 3 slam winners again next season is my prediction. Same 3 as this year.

[Danny_1982]

Oh, and enjoy KR.  

[socal1976]

I really like Novak as a bloke. He's a great character and has a great sense of fun as well as a touch of class. As much class as you can have when you're a competetive machine who wants to beat everyone.

I think he'll get the number 1 back in the not too distant future.

But he ain't unbeatable, that's for sure. 3 slam winners again next season is my prediction. Same 3 as this year.

Nice words Danny, no one is unbeatable after all. I could see three slam winners as well next year. And I think it will be the same three we have had this year the number 1 will be the guy who gets the extra slam and wins 2.

[socal1976]

... Shows how quickly things can change. 2 or 3 months ago Rafa was unbeatable, now it's Djoko who's unbeatable. ...

Indeed, like me.  I am currently unbeaten and will remain unbeaten as long as they don't find me in my hidden bunker.

Its generally not a good sign if you have to hide in a bunker, you aren't dick Cheney are you?

[slashermcguirk]

Well done Novak, what a response to losing us open and couple of other disappointments. Well done rafa on an amazing year. Makes for an exciting 2014

[Danny_1982]

I really like Novak as a bloke. He's a great character and has a great sense of fun as well as a touch of class. As much class as you can have when you're a competetive machine who wants to beat everyone.

I think he'll get the number 1 back in the not too distant future.

But he ain't unbeatable, that's for sure. 3 slam winners again next season is my prediction. Same 3 as this year.

Nice words Danny, no one is unbeatable after all. I could see three slam winners as well next year. And I think it will be the same three we have had this year the number 1 will be the guy who gets the extra slam and wins 2.

Agree, but even if Muzza nicks 2 slams he won't be no.1. He won't get enough clay points. Number 1 is between the 2 gents we saw play tonight. They bring their best to the table more often, and on more surfaces.

Cant wait for Melbourne already.

[CAS]

talk about always leave them wanting more?!

Rafa has the best season of his career and closes in on Roger, Novak goes on a 22 unbeaten run beating everyone in his way, will Roger improve next year? Will Andy pick up where he left off? Will JMDP finally crash the party properly?

can't wait for the sequel!

[Henman Bill]

Somehow I couldn't really get that into the match although I watched it.

Kingraf, why Ethiopia? I'd be curious to know what you think of the country. A lot of the visitors there find that it is somewhat stressful, perhaps unpleasant, with the persistent and aggressive begging which is much more than a lot of other African countries. It can be argued that all the aid Ethiopia received never improved the country's situation much and even made the people more nasty and less willing to work to improve their own situation. I've never been there myself though.

[laverfan]

Congratulations to Djokovic (and his fans as well - Slasher/SoCal/HMM).

Nadal will probably get more WTF chances, if he can keep injuries at bay.

[laverfan]

@KR… stay away from this shopping malls, I say. Addis Ababa is a fantastic city. Stay away from the Eritrean borders as well.

[laverfan]

Djokovic pierced Nadal’s defences early on in his third season-ending final. The depth of his groundstrokes ensured Nadal played well behind the baseline on the medium-paced indoor court. Two backhand errors cost Nadal as he was broken to 15 in the second game.

http://www.barclaysatpworldtourfinals.com/en/news-and-media/tennis/djokovic-nadal-final-barclays-atp-world-tour-finals-monday-2013

Interesting report. Good topic for future discussions.

[Silver]

Well done Novak. Not the best match, but he played well to win it.

Enjoy your travels, kingraf! Stay safe.

[naxroy]

congrats to novak

it seems like he will soon regain his number one position


and I say his, because in truth it seems to be his at this moment


congrats a nadal for the great year. 2 slams and 5 masters was incredible. thanks rafa for all the tennis and all the fight

[sirfredperry]

One wonders if Rafa will ever win the WTF. I thought his movement last night, whether through injury or fatigue, was pretty awful, with Djoko pinning him to the baseline and with Rafa getting very little on his own shots.
  It was only imminent defeat that seems to stir the Spaniard into life. If he'd broken back at 5-4 in that second set we MIGHT have had a match on our hands.
  Full marks to Rafa, though, for a stunning year. Djoko, however, looked remarkably strong out there last night and with that win he has kept the gap at the top to manageable, if difficult, lengths.
  You have to see these two dominating again in 2014. There could be a number of classic, crunching matches between the pair. If Murray is fully fit again he should be the number three.

[lydian]

Was at O2 on Sunday, boy it's quick when you see it live, was stood about 10 feet behind Djokovic too when he was practising, fabulous mover and ball striker.

Djokovic played well last night. Sadly however Nadal played his worst match of the week I thought, just looked tight and therefore unable to move properly all match, making loads of unexpected errors, even double faults. Suspect he got too wracked with nerves about wanting to win it...strange performance and he'll be pretty down today I'd suspect with the way he played. He was almost as bad as Wawrinka!

Novak served big last night and never looked like missing, threw in a couple of 1st's at 131mph...he's upping the gas on that service motion. These 2 are a level above everyone else to be fair...we'll be seeing a lot more finals with these.

[barrystar]

Not the greatest match, but it would be easy to underestimate Djoko's performance - he was excellent I thought and his excellence, even his explosive excellence from the off, no doubt played its part in pressuring some uncharacteristic errors from Nadal.
 
It's difficult to look far beyond those two next year, with perhaps Murray grabbing a slam if he can return to fitness, but I'd prefer the Djoko/Nadal matches if their defences were just a little weaker and we'd see some points finished off a little earlier with clean winners.
 
Watching Lazarus get out of his bed and make an impossible retrieve is more fascinating if it doesn't happen about 10 times every game.

[HM Murdock]

Lydian - after USO you felt Novak would have trouble countering Rafa's new court positioning and FH DTL.

He seems to be having success again now though. What's your take on that? Do you see strategy or just a dip in the form of one and rise in the form of the other?

I see the two latest results differently. Beijing was a great serving performance from Novak and a low bouncing court that Rafa struggled with.

I thought last night though that Novak was dealing much better with the FH DTL. I've never seen Novak hit forehands on the run better than he did last night and it seems clear that he must have been working on this - the improvement was so marked.

What does your technical eye make of it?

[Calder106]

Didn't see that many long rallies last night. Match was over in 1hr 36mins. Yes there were some incredible retrieves but that's testament to how good they are.

[socal1976]

Was at O2 on Sunday, boy it's quick when you see it live, was stood about 10 feet behind Djokovic too when he was practising, fabulous mover and ball striker.

Djokovic played well last night. Sadly however Nadal played his worst match of the week I thought, just looked tight and therefore unable to move properly all match, making loads of unexpected errors, even double faults. Suspect he got too wracked with nerves about wanting to win it...strange performance and he'll be pretty down today I'd suspect with the way he played. He was almost as bad as Wawrinka!

Novak served big last night and never looked like missing, threw in a couple of 1st's at 131mph...he's upping the gas on that service motion. These 2 are a level above everyone else to be fair...we'll be seeing a lot more finals with these.

Yes Novak's serve in my opinion is the best it has ever been in the last few weeks and pretty much for most of the season. He rarely breaks 130 on the serve but he can do it and he has great disguise and variety on the serve similar to federer where he keeps the returner guessing. Also his kick serve has always been very strong and is often why he has one of the best second serve win percentages on tour.

As for Nadal for some reason he struggles relatively speaking on an indoor court, he never really has had the same kind of results on this surface as he does in every other set of conditions. I still think Nadal beats anyone else not named Djokovic in front of him last night. One thing I liked about what Nadal was doing was that he mixed up his serves to Novak's forehand return more often than he does to any other player and caught Novak by surprise on a few occasions. I really think that he lacked a bit of aggression in this match and let Novak take the initiative. That being said the way Novak was returning and serving it would be difficult to steal the initiative.

[Born Slippy]

Further evidence that when Novak plays well Rafa struggles to find any answer. Whilst he did well to keep it close, it was a display of total dominance by Novak. Third crushing defeat of the year but, when the pressure has been truly on in the slams, Novak hasn't quite been able to find that form since Australia.

[HM Murdock]

It struck me last night that Novak is now quite a different player to what he was in his big 2011. The notable differences:

- Play around the net has improved beyond all recognition. Not just that, he appears to have become the most regular visitor to the net in the whole top ten. I still don't think he naturally has soft hands but practice has brought him to the point where it really has become a major weapon for him.

- His serve was good in 11, I'd say it lapsed a little in 12 but it's looking better than ever now. He can dial up the speed but his placement is where the improvement lies. It's become Federer-esque in that way. He's hitting aces by finding the right spots. The kick on the kick serve is a sight to behold too.

The two differences above are crucial. 2011 was built around hanging around in the rally until it's time to hit the right shot. Now he has the weapons to end a point quickly.

It's not all positive though.

The BHDTL was the rock on which 2011 was built. It has become an infrequent visitor in 2013. It's much less reliable these days, a decent number of shots seem to drift outside of the tramlines.

I'd say the jury is also still out on his mental focus too. A brilliant end to the season can't yet gloss over the number of break points missed and the tendency to throw in an awful service game out of nowhere.

So although the core attributes as a player - great mobility, agility and an awesome return of serve - remain, I think the focus of his attack has gradually shifted over time.

[HM Murdock]

Further evidence that when Novak plays well Rafa struggles to find any answer. Whilst he did well to keep it close, it was a display of total dominance by Novak. Third crushing defeat of the year but, when the pressure has been truly on in the slams, Novak hasn't quite been able to find that form since Australia.

I think I'd agree with this.

I think Novak has the match up advantage. I think it's telling that Novak's 3 wins this year have been very convincing straight sets. Rafa's wins, by contrast, included a 9-7 in the 5th at RG and a third set tie break in Montreal. To give him due credit, his performance in USO was fantastic, imperious tennis.

But Rafa has shown the greater calm and courage in big moments. Even last night, his best play came at break points and championship points down. It's incredible really. He really is the ultimate 'anti-choker'!

The net balance puts them pretty much equal. I'd fancy Novak to win non-slam finals and Rafa to win the slam finals but it's marginal either way.

[socal1976]

Murdoch we can't forget that in my mind Novak's improvement in 2011 raised the bar and players like Murray and yes even Nadal are now used to and more able to counter Djoko 2.0 than they were in 2011. I agree though the DTLB is not what it was in 2011 but I think he hit it pretty well last night. Also mentally I felt like Novak won a lot of tight matches at the slams in 2011 that he just has come up a bit short in 2012 and 2013, this to me is more of mental and confidence issue as he really crushed the opposition in 2011 and beat a lot of players through sheer will and focus even if he was not feeling the ball. But I think Murray and Nadal adjusted their tactics and improved their games vis a vis 2011 and that explains most of the grandslam losses we have seen in finals the last few years. Technically, as a ball striker I think he is equal if not better than his 2011 level. With the caveat that the backy up the line has not been as consistent.

[HM Murdock]

Socal, you are right about the opposition. Andy this year is wholly different prospect to his 2011 incarnation.

I thought Rafa was brilliant in 2011, he just didn't play Novak very intelligently. He got that sorted at the key moments this year.

Tough to make a judgement on whether Novak is better or worse than 2011. He's certainly a more rounded player. I don't think the Novak of today would have a match like AO12. He'd look to finish the points quicker and would live or die by how successfully he managed it.

[sirfredperry]

Djoko certainly showed in his annus mirabilis in 2011 that he had something of a jinx on Rafa and there were signs of that last night.
  People always say Rafa is a nightmare match up for most players. Well maybe Nole is a nightmare match up for Rafa. Djoko just isn't bothered by that topspun shot of Rafa's to the backhand side and he can consistently attack him with solid percentage play if Rafa goes on the defensive.
What we also saw last night was Nole's wonderful defence. His sliding and doing-the-splits shots are phenomenal. Watch the final MP again. Nole gets back two incredible shots before Rafa hits it out.
  Djoko allowed himself, incredibly, to lose concentration and get distracted and agitated when a break up in that 5th set of the RG semi, otherwise we'd have been talking about an even better year for the Serb.

[naxroy]

nadal reached the final. once there you can win or lose, but reaching the final in any tournament is what you have to expect from a number 1-2

this season he reached 14 finals, 2 semifinals and 1 first round

he lost to a great champion, but he did his job

[Sponsored content]