Wales recent record

by The Saint Sun Nov 17, 2013 10:08 pm

First topic message reminder :

So as usual poor old Wales have been the victim of misused quantitative data, quite often actually. I'm not really sure why or how our third team winning one and then losing one (as expected) against Japan has any bearing on the team that won back-to-back 6 Nations championships. If you consider that then our recent record contains a 30-3 win and a 40-6 win over highly ranked teams, and we also went through winning 4 games on the bounce without conceding a single try. We were expected to lose SA, they have an exceptional team right now and are well ahead of Wales and everyone else bar just the one team in black. It's not such a bad recent record as made out by everyone if you ask me.

Broken Record

by The Saint Mon Nov 18, 2013 10:38 pm

Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz.

by TJ Mon Nov 18, 2013 11:05 pm

The Saint wrote:I can read very well and I can break down posts to discover their true meaning or look for loop-holes. University was very handy. A lot of your posts insinuate we're arrogant for stating a fact, that Wales are best in europe.

Unfortunatly they are not. So it is arrogant to claim it when its clearly not true

England are clearly a superior team - and thats from someone who does actually have an anti english bias and likes wales
1(1) NZLNEW ZEALAND 93.81
2(2) RSASOUTH AFRICA 88.77
3(3) ENGENGLAND 85.70
4(4) AUSAUSTRALIA 85.65
5(5) FRAFRANCE 81.44
6(7) WALWALES 80.98
7(6) IREIRELAND

Scotland have beaten Aus twice in recent years - does that make them a better team than aus? clearly not.

by Scratch Mon Nov 18, 2013 11:17 pm

Yes TJ, the 6 Nations, evolved from the oldest rugby competition in history and competed annually by 6 European nations is no indicator whatsoever of who is the best side in europe.

p.s. and btw, fyi….SA, NZ and Aus are not in Europe.

Let's be specific for those with 'issues'….Wales, are by a country mile, the best team in the 6 Nations competition.

Apart from that they are jubblies on a bull useless

by quinsforever Mon Nov 18, 2013 11:23 pm

Scratch wrote:Yes TJ, the 6 Nations, evolved from the oldest rugby competition in history and competed annually by 6 European nations is no indicator whatsoever of who is the best side in europe.

p.s. and btw, fyi….SA, NZ and Aus are not in Europe. But England are

Let's be specific for those with 'issues'….Wales, are by a country mile is that a lot or a little?, the best team in the 6 Nations competition. if thats a lot, i would disagree. they won by points difference last year over england, and won 1 game more than england the year previously. over any time periods longer than that it gets decidedly less good for wales too.

i would agree if you said that Wales have for the last two years won the 6N championship. but please spare us your hyperbole.

Apart from that they are jubblies on a bull useless

by TJ Mon Nov 18, 2013 11:24 pm

Scratch wrote:Yes TJ, the 6 Nations, evolved from the oldest rugby competition in history and competed annually by 6 European nations is no indicator whatsoever of who is the best side in europe.

p.s. and btw, fyi….SA, NZ and Aus are not in Europe.

Let's be specific for those with 'issues'….Wales, are by a country mile, the best team in the 6 Nations competition.

Apart from that they are jubblies on a bull useless

Its simple nonsense to say they are the best side in europe, they have a good record recently no doubt - the best record in the 6 nations but to say they are the best team in Europe is simply not true. England are. Its not a thing I enjoy saying- but its the truth. England rank 3 in the world, Wales 7. that is the nearest you can come to a fact.

by The Saint Mon Nov 18, 2013 11:31 pm

TJ wrote:
The Saint wrote:I can read very well and I can break down posts to discover their true meaning or look for loop-holes. University was very handy. A lot of your posts insinuate we're arrogant for stating a fact, that Wales are best in europe.
Unfortunatly they are not. So it is arrogant to claim it when its clearly not true

England are clearly a superior team - and thats from someone who does actually have an anti english bias and likes wales
1(1) NZLNEW ZEALAND 93.81
2(2) RSASOUTH AFRICA 88.77
3(3) ENGENGLAND 85.70
4(4) AUSAUSTRALIA 85.65
5(5) FRAFRANCE 81.44
6(7) WALWALES 80.98
7(6) IREIRELAND

Scotland have beaten Aus twice in recent years - does that make them a better team than aus? clearly not.

It's your opinion though. IRB group seeding for the RWC (which you have posted) work via qualitiative data, which doesn't tell the entire story. Hence why a lot of rugby fans come up with their own world rankings. Clearly quite a few others are of a different opinion to you but that doesn't make their opinion incorrect.

by Scratch Mon Nov 18, 2013 11:32 pm

no i don't think i will spare you quoins and explain ho wi am exaggerating the stats?

Like i said for those with issues…using the IRB rankings to determine who is best in europe when there is an annual european tournament is frankly bizarre but if you have to i guess you have to, but then so is claiming how many games you have won whilst losing competitions you played the games in, is more an an accurate and valuable test

Doesn't stop quoins though does it...yet again you take solace in an emasculating defeat in 2012 and being robbed - again - in 2013

And you don't been mention your last win in europe…remember, it was 2011….surprised you don't tell us how great England were in 2011 too, but then referring to that could be a step too far as you did what you seem so good at doing in the 6 Nations, choking on you r own hype

You have only won once since 2003. A squandered slam.

But for someone who doesn't care about the 6 Nations - you only care about RWC right- you don't half bang on about boobie

by The Saint Mon Nov 18, 2013 11:33 pm

TJ wrote:
Scratch wrote:Yes TJ, the 6 Nations, evolved from the oldest rugby competition in history and competed annually by 6 European nations is no indicator whatsoever of who is the best side in europe.

p.s. and btw, fyi….SA, NZ and Aus are not in Europe.

Let's be specific for those with 'issues'….Wales, are by a country mile, the best team in the 6 Nations competition.

Apart from that they are jubblies on a bull useless
Its simple nonsense to say they are the best side in europe, they have a good record recently no doubt - the best record in the 6 nations but to say they are the best team in Europe is simply not true. England are. Its not a thing I enjoy saying- but its the truth. England rank 3 in the world, Wales 7. that is the nearest you can come to a fact.

....or wining the actual european competition, which took place not so long ago.

by Scratch Mon Nov 18, 2013 11:36 pm

TJ wrote:
Scratch wrote:Yes TJ, the 6 Nations, evolved from the oldest rugby competition in history and competed annually by 6 European nations is no indicator whatsoever of who is the best side in europe.

p.s. and btw, fyi….SA, NZ and Aus are not in Europe.

Let's be specific for those with 'issues'….Wales, are by a country mile, the best team in the 6 Nations competition.

Apart from that they are jubblies on a bull useless
Its simple nonsense to say they are the best side in europe, they have a good record recently no doubt - the best record in the 6 nations but to say they are the best team in Europe is simply not true. England are. Its not a thing I enjoy saying- but its the truth. England rank 3 in the world, Wales 7. that is the nearest you can come to a fact.

Er no it isn't

Lets take 2003 as it's the last time England were 1 in your IRB Rankings

So

England

FACT: 2 Championships

Wales

FACT: 4 Championships

Keep clinging onto to that 3rd rung England and we will keep taking you to the cleaners at 6 Nations time thumbsup

by RDSguru Mon Nov 18, 2013 11:42 pm

TJ wrote:Its simple nonsense to say they are the best side in europe, they have a good record recently no doubt - the best record in the 6 nations but to say they are the best team in Europe is simply not true. England are. Its not a thing I enjoy saying- but its the truth. England rank 3 in the world, Wales 7. that is the nearest you can come to a fact.

A filthy lie. Wales are ranked 6th Yahoo

TJ wrote:
The Saint wrote:I can read very well and I can break down posts to discover their true meaning or look for loop-holes. University was very handy. A lot of your posts insinuate we're arrogant for stating a fact, that Wales are best in europe.
Unfortunatly they are not. So it is arrogant to claim it when its clearly not true

England are clearly a superior team - and thats from someone who does actually have an anti english bias and likes wales
1(1) NZLNEW ZEALAND 93.81
2(2) RSASOUTH AFRICA 88.77
3(3) ENGENGLAND 85.70
4(4) AUSAUSTRALIA 85.65
5(5) FRAFRANCE 81.44
6(7) WALWALES 80.98
7(6) IREIRELAND

Scotland have beaten Aus twice in recent years - does that make them a better team than aus? clearly not.

by quinsforever Mon Nov 18, 2013 11:42 pm

Scratch wrote:no i don't think i will spare you quoins and explain ho wi am exaggerating the stats?

Like i said for those with issues…using the IRB rankings to determine who is best in europe when there is an annual european tournament is frankly bizarre but if you have to i guess you have to, but then so is claiming how many games you have won whilst losing competitions you played the games in, is more an an accurate and valuable test

Doesn't stop quoins though does it...yet again you take solace in an emasculating defeat in 2012 and being robbed - again - in 2013

And you don't been mention your last win in europe…remember, it was 2011….surprised you don't tell us how great England were in 2011 too, but then referring to that could be a step too far as you did what you seem so good at doing in the 6 Nations, choking on you r own hype

You have only won once since 2003. A squandered slam.

But for someone who doesn't care about the 6 Nations - you only care about RWC right- you don't half bang on about boobie

of course i havent talked about england's positive results. this thread is about wales record. and i dont take solace in anything. i was just pointing out that once again you set yourself up for criticism by exaggerating and using emotive hyperbole to try to carry an argument.

hey buddy, you were the one who mentioned results since 2003 so i just went and looked at them. there are many ways of skinning a cat and if i choose to look at overall consistency of results and IRB rankings and RWC performance then that is just as valid as you focusing entirely on 2 years of 6N results only.

i don't care about 6N as much as i care about RWC, nor anywhere near as much as Wal, Sco, Ire, Ita supporters do. i think you will find many england supporters feel the same way.

by quinsforever Mon Nov 18, 2013 11:44 pm

The Saint wrote:
TJ wrote:
The Saint wrote:I can read very well and I can break down posts to discover their true meaning or look for loop-holes. University was very handy. A lot of your posts insinuate we're arrogant for stating a fact, that Wales are best in europe.
Unfortunatly they are not. So it is arrogant to claim it when its clearly not true

England are clearly a superior team - and thats from someone who does actually have an anti english bias and likes wales
1(1) NZLNEW ZEALAND 93.81
2(2) RSASOUTH AFRICA 88.77
3(3) ENGENGLAND 85.70
4(4) AUSAUSTRALIA 85.65
5(5) FRAFRANCE 81.44
6(7) WALWALES 80.98
7(6) IREIRELAND

Scotland have beaten Aus twice in recent years - does that make them a better team than aus? clearly not.
It's your opinion though. IRB group seeding for the RWC (which you have posted) work via qualitiative data, which doesn't tell the entire story. Hence why a lot of rugby fans come up with their own world rankings. Clearly quite a few others are of a different opinion to you but that doesn't make their opinion incorrect.

actually they work via quantitative data. qualitative is the softer stuff. put the two together and you have a complete picture.

by TJ Mon Nov 18, 2013 11:46 pm

Sorry RDSguru 6th it is. 3 places below England.

by RDSguru Mon Nov 18, 2013 11:47 pm

TJ wrote:Sorry RDSguru 6th it is. 3 places below England.

by Scratch Mon Nov 18, 2013 11:48 pm

well quoins you cant really refer to england's positive results in the 6 nations can you so it's a good job you don't care about the 6 nations isn't it….wonder if you would if you could win it more than once in 10 years?

in terms of europe, which we were debating, wales record is not comparable to engalnd's, your continued reliance on IRB ranking, how many games you won whilst losing the 6 nations, how many spoons we won and how often you didn't come in the bottom 2/3 kind of speaks for itself

got it now?

by TJ Mon Nov 18, 2013 11:48 pm

I do love it. the team ranked 6th are better than the team ranked 3rd.

by TJ Mon Nov 18, 2013 11:49 pm

RDSguru wrote:
TJ wrote:Sorry RDSguru 6th it is. 3 places below England.

by Scratch Mon Nov 18, 2013 11:49 pm

TJ wrote:I do love it. the team ranked 6th are better than the team ranked 3rd.

In europ eyes they are

In the world no they aren't

it's really easy tj/quins

by Engine#4 Mon Nov 18, 2013 11:51 pm

The Saint wrote:
TJ wrote:When did you last beat SA, NZ or Aus?

Why do you have to claim such stupidity as
third team winning one and then losing one (as expected) against Japan
SA 1999, or 2000, Aus 2013 , NZ a long time ago (something Scotland or Ireland have never done and probably won't do in their next game).

RDSguru wrote:
quinsforever wrote:unfortunately i dont think results in 1953 weight heavily in the IRB rankings...
Just as well.... imagine the Scots and Irish rankings...

Ouch talk about kicking nations when they're down Laugh

Absolutely gas reading on this collection of threads lads I must say, Welsh fans jealous of Ireland and Scotland because while they may be getting thrashed, not enough people are putting the boot in. laughing

Personally I think that the reason the Welsh are getting a harder time than their Celtic cousins at the moment is pretty obvious-their success recently. They've won the back to back 6Nations titles, one of which was a grand slam (just in case anyone hadn't heard Whistle

), and that is no mean feat. There's not much fun to be had slagging off the Irish at the minute, how would it even go?

Fan1: "God, your team were terrible at the weekend, I mean truly awful"
Fan2: "I know mate, I was there, I have eyes"
Fan1: "I mean a loss like that must make you feel pretty bad, please show me that you feel bad so that i can enjoy it"
Fan2: "Not really, last week was mediocre at best, then there was that Italy game in the 6Nations...the Scotland game...the France game..the England game...we haven't been any use for a while, new coach etc building for the future blah blah blah".

The Welsh are top dogs and of course people are going to be gunning for them. However, the key thing for me (and think this will go for many others as well) is that for all their recent success the Welsh haven't convinced me that they're THAT much better than everyone else in Europe. The England game aside, they didn't impress all that much in the last 6Nations. The year before they weren't trouncing all before them either though they did perform better than 2013.

In short, the don't scare anyone. The English, Irish and Scots all think that their teams are capable of pulling out a win out of the bag against Wales and frankly why shouldn't they?

by quinsforever Mon Nov 18, 2013 11:53 pm

Scratch wrote:well quoins you cant really refer to england's positive results in the 6 nations can you so it's a good job you don't care about the 6 nations isn't it….wonder if you would if you could win it more than once in 10 years?

in terms of europe, which we were debating, wales record is not comparable to engalnd's, your continued reliance on IRB ranking, how many games you won whilst losing the 6 nations, how many spoons we won and how often you didn't come in the bottom 2/3 kind of speaks for itself

got it now?

i was reading a really good post from cowshot on another thread about a related topic. and you would fit neatly into the group of people who don't care how their 6N goes, as long as you beat England. An ABE i think we refer to them as. it's a bit sad really. bit funny too, because english fans, for the most part, prefer the welsh team over any other, bar none.

by quinsforever Mon Nov 18, 2013 11:54 pm

Scratch wrote:
TJ wrote:I do love it. the team ranked 6th are better than the team ranked 3rd.
In europ eyes they are

In the world no they aren't

it's really easy tj/quins

england are in europe.

i think you mean against NH sides, no?

by TJ Mon Nov 18, 2013 11:56 pm

Scratch wrote:
TJ wrote:I do love it. the team ranked 6th are better than the team ranked 3rd.
In europ eyes they are

In the world no they aren't

it's really easy tj/quins

No one in europe who understands rugby and is not a one eyed fan think Wales are better than England

the rankings do not lie. they show England well ahead of the rest of Europe with a bit of a gap between france wales and ireland (who are all much the same) to italy and scotland

by quinsforever Mon Nov 18, 2013 11:56 pm

Engine#4 wrote:
The Saint wrote:
TJ wrote:When did you last beat SA, NZ or Aus?

Why do you have to claim such stupidity as
third team winning one and then losing one (as expected) against Japan
SA 1999, or 2000, Aus 2013 , NZ a long time ago (something Scotland or Ireland have never done and probably won't do in their next game).

RDSguru wrote:
quinsforever wrote:unfortunately i dont think results in 1953 weight heavily in the IRB rankings...
Just as well.... imagine the Scots and Irish rankings...
Ouch talk about kicking nations when they're down Absolutely gas reading on this collection of threads lads I must say, Welsh fans jealous of Ireland and Scotland because while they may be getting thrashed, not enough people are putting the boot in.

Personally I think that the reason the Welsh are getting a harder time than their Celtic cousins at the moment is pretty obvious-their success recently. They've won the back to back 6Nations titles, one of which was a grand slam (just in case anyone hadn't heard ), and that is no mean feat. There's not much fun to be had slagging off the Irish at the minute, how would it even go?

Fan1: "God, your team were terrible at the weekend, I mean truly awful"
Fan2: "I know mate, I was there, I have eyes"
Fan1: "I mean a loss like that must make you feel pretty bad, please show me that you feel bad so that i can enjoy it"
Fan2: "Not really, last week was mediocre at best, then there was that Italy game in the 6Nations...the Scotland game...the France game..the England game...we haven't been any use for a while, new coach etc building for the future blah blah blah".

The Welsh are top dogs and of course people are going to be gunning for them. However, the key thing for me (and think this will go for many others as well) is that for all their recent success the Welsh haven't convinced me that they're THAT much better than everyone else in Europe. The England game aside, they didn't impress all that much in the last 6Nations. The year before they weren't trouncing all before them either though they did perform better than 2013.

In short, the don't scare anyone. The English, Irish and Scots all think that their teams are capable of pulling out a win out of the bag against Wales and frankly why shouldn't they?

you welsh-hater you furious

by Scratch Tue Nov 19, 2013 12:05 am

TJ wrote:
Scratch wrote:
TJ wrote:I do love it. the team ranked 6th are better than the team ranked 3rd.
In europ eyes they are

In the world no they aren't

it's really easy tj/quins

No one in europe who understands rugby and is not a one eyed fan think Wales are better than England

the rankings do not lie. they show England well ahead of the rest of Europe with a bit of a gap between france wales and ireland (who are all much the same) to italy and scotland

tj/quins

keep deluding yourself that england are better than wales in europe because they are higher in the rankings…please, it's like watching a turtle struggling on it's back legs waving around and spinning helplessly

ignore the facts based on competition

rely instead on the rankings to determine who is the better side in europe

don't rely on form, european championships are not a goo dmeasure of who is the best side in europe

oh and quoins, i am far from an ABE as you put it, i notice you like to make personal attacks instead of sticking to the post but then you have to because the basis of your assertions are not in hyperbole but pure fantasy

i love to beat england, i love to beat whoever we are playing, to suggest that there are those in wales who exist just to beat england is as ridiculous as to suggest winning games but losing a competition is a way to measure success

my experience is that just as there are those that wish to beat auld enemy at any cost, there are englishmen whose vitriol for wales is frankly disturbing

and as someone just posted, that , i suspect, is based largely on our supremacy in european competition

by RDSguru Tue Nov 19, 2013 12:10 am

IRB World Rankings - 11 March 2013
1(1) NZL NEW ZEALAND 90.08
2(2) RSA SOUTH AFRICA 86.94
3(3) AUS AUSTRALIA 86.87
4(4) ENG ENGLAND 85.30
5(6) WAL WALES 81.78

16th March 2013
Wales 30 - 3 England

IRB World Rankings - 20 February 2012
1(1) NZL NEW ZEALAND 91.43
2(2) AUS AUSTRALIA 87.99
3(3) FRA FRANCE 84.70
4(4) RSA SOUTH AFRICA 84.34
5(5) ENG ENGLAND 82.81
6(6) WAL WALES 81.15

England 12 - 19 Wales
25th February 2012

IRB World Rankings - 08 August 2011
1(1) NZL NEW ZEALAND 93.26
2(2) AUS AUSTRALIA 86.58
3(3) RSA SOUTH AFRICA 85.24
4(5) ENG ENGLAND 82.89
5(6) FRA FRANCE 82.06
6(4) IRE IRELAND 81.29
7(7) WAL WALES 79.14

13 August 2011
Wales 19-9 England

Yep I'm trying to make a point

Wales recent record - Page 3 19524229-cartoon-of-a-chef-stirring-a-big-pot

Wales recent record - Page 3 19524229-cartoon-of-a-chef-stirring-a-big-pot

by Scratch Tue Nov 19, 2013 12:13 am

Irrelevant RDS, complete exaggeration of the facts, you have only gone and taken the result from the annual game played between two teams, an din a rush of what can only be called 'trying to beat england at any cost' gone and put it in context against the world rankings

such posts deserve to be ridiculed and flagged and you should probably be banned for using facts with gay abandon

p.s. pretty embarrassing to be beaten every year by a team that isn't as good as you

by quinsforever Tue Nov 19, 2013 12:13 am

LOL, keep up the good fight scratch. just so we are clear, you keep stating that wales are "the best team in europe". they are not. they have been the best team in 6N competition in the last 2 years.

"the best team in europe" does not stipulate who the opposition are, so to identify who are the "best team in europe" i, like most others, would look at rankings which include results against teams that are frankly a cut above the NH sides. and England are 3rd in that list. so in fact england are "the best team in europe".

if you are imprecise with your language when you make the claims you cant get upset when people call you on it. not my fault.

the reality is the 6N competition has been fairly low quality for the last 2 years as engine says, and i dont think Wales have in any way dominated or put the willies up anyone. they won, well done. but the gulf between wales and SH rugby seems ever present. and unlikely to be traversed in 2 weeks time either.

by TJ Tue Nov 19, 2013 12:14 am

How on earth can you try to claim the IRCB rankibngs do not count or show who is better. it pains me to say it as I am an ABE but england are clearly the better side right now. Inconsistent and not unbeatable but clearly better. Hence they are significantly higher int eh ranking. Wales are 6N champions but the rankings are a far more accurate gauge counting results over 4 years

by Scratch Tue Nov 19, 2013 12:14 am

like you said quoins i only care as long as we are beating england so i am as happy as a porker in poo

by RDSguru Tue Nov 19, 2013 12:15 am

Scratch wrote:Irrelevant RDS, complete exaggeration of the facts, you have only gone and taken the result from the annual game played between two teams, an din a rush of what can only be called 'trying to beat england at any cost' gone and put it in context against the world rankings

such posts deserve to be ridiculed and flagged and you should probably be banned for using facts with gay abandon

I done what?

by TJ Tue Nov 19, 2013 12:16 am

So you don't care about your dismal record against the SH teams? When did you last beat one of the big three? Lowly scotland have beaten both SA and Aus recently. I wouldn't attempt to claim it made them a better side than their ranking

by quinsforever Tue Nov 19, 2013 12:16 am

Scratch wrote:Irrelevant RDS, complete exaggeration of the facts, you have only gone and taken the result from the annual game played between two teams, an din a rush of what can only be called 'trying to beat england at any cost' gone and put it in context against the world rankings

such posts deserve to be ridiculed and flagged and you should probably be banned for using facts with gay abandon

p.s. pretty embarrassing to be beaten every year by a team that isn't as good as you

once again you reveal that all you care about is beating england.

tragic to have such limited ambition.

but i begin to understand why people who say england are the best team in europe would be so devastating to you laughing

by Scratch Tue Nov 19, 2013 12:22 am

quinsforever wrote:LOL, keep up the good fight scratch. just so we are clear, you keep stating that wales are "the best team in europe". they are not. they have been the best team in 6N competition in the last 2 years.

"the best team in europe" does not stipulate who the opposition are, so to identify who are the "best team in europe" i, like most others, would look at rankings which include results against teams that are frankly a cut above the NH sides. and England are 3rd in that list. so in fact england are "the best team in europe".

if you are imprecise with your language when you make the claims you cant get upset when people call you on it. not my fault.

the reality is the 6N competition has been fairly low quality for the last 2 years as engine says, and i dont think Wales have in any way dominated or put the willies up anyone. they won, well done. but the gulf between wales and SH rugby seems ever present. and unlikely to be traversed in 2 weeks time either.

quins

by your own admission earlier when the MOD tried to rein you in you said you liked to watch peole get wound up

how you think you have wound me up is beyond me but you are clearly a cheap, and poor, WUM on this issue

I am not upset in the least, debating with you is highly amusing as it wouldn't matter what the stats were you would still find a way to express england as superior to wales…you seem to be obsessed with it…you now use the gulf between us and the SH to embellish your point, its called moving the goalposts and you my fried should get a grounds mans job as you are an olympian at it.

i fo rone am hugely critical of wales inconsistency and lack of success v SH

how is tho sfor you

Wales are the best side in european competition

wales are the best side when they play england

England have won more calcutta cups

by Scratch Tue Nov 19, 2013 12:23 am

quinsforever wrote:
Scratch wrote:Irrelevant RDS, complete exaggeration of the facts, you have only gone and taken the result from the annual game played between two teams, an din a rush of what can only be called 'trying to beat england at any cost' gone and put it in context against the world rankings

such posts deserve to be ridiculed and flagged and you should probably be banned for using facts with gay abandon

p.s. pretty embarrassing to be beaten every year by a team that isn't as good as you
once again you reveal that all you care about is beating england.

tragic to have such limited ambition.

but i begin to understand why people who say england are the best team in europe would be so devastating to you

you have to go on the personal attack don't you

first sign of loss of argument

sad, very very sad

by TJ Tue Nov 19, 2013 12:25 am

Wales are not the best side in European competition. they have the best recent record. a subtle but important difference. How yo can argue the team raked 6th is above the team ranked 3 rd is a distortion of logic that is quite incredible.

Scotland have beaten Aus more than Aus have beaten Scotland the last 2 years. does that make Scotand a better team than aus? of course not.

by maestegmafia Tue Nov 19, 2013 12:25 am

quinsforever wrote:you keep stating that wales are "the best team in europe". they are not. they have been the best team in 6N competition in the last 2 years.

Its actually ten years that Wales have now been the best team. Wales and France have won the six nations four times each in ten years, Wales have three Grand Slams and the French just two.

by RDSguru Tue Nov 19, 2013 12:27 am

IMO, I am just pointing out, that I don't take the world rankings at face value.

Feel free to have your own opinions though boxing

by The Saint Tue Nov 19, 2013 12:28 am

quinsforever wrote:
The Saint wrote:
TJ wrote:
The Saint wrote:I can read very well and I can break down posts to discover their true meaning or look for loop-holes. University was very handy. A lot of your posts insinuate we're arrogant for stating a fact, that Wales are best in europe.
Unfortunatly they are not. So it is arrogant to claim it when its clearly not true

England are clearly a superior team - and thats from someone who does actually have an anti english bias and likes wales
1(1) NZLNEW ZEALAND 93.81
2(2) RSASOUTH AFRICA 88.77
3(3) ENGENGLAND 85.70
4(4) AUSAUSTRALIA 85.65
5(5) FRAFRANCE 81.44
6(7) WALWALES 80.98
7(6) IREIRELAND

Scotland have beaten Aus twice in recent years - does that make them a better team than aus? clearly not.
It's your opinion though. IRB group seeding for the RWC (which you have posted) work via qualitiative data, which doesn't tell the entire story. Hence why a lot of rugby fans come up with their own world rankings. Clearly quite a few others are of a different opinion to you but that doesn't make their opinion incorrect.
actually they work via quantitative data. qualitative is the softer stuff. put the two together and you have a complete picture.

Yeah that's what I meant. Got mixed up a bit there.

by RDSguru Tue Nov 19, 2013 12:29 am

TJ wrote:So you don't care about your dismal record against the SH teams? When did you last beat one of the big three? Lowly scotland have beaten both SA and Aus recently. I wouldn't attempt to claim it made them a better side than their ranking

I very much care about beating SH teams.

The reasons we haven't is down to the fact they're better than us, not because the rankings imply they are!

by quinsforever Tue Nov 19, 2013 12:29 am

Scratch wrote:
quinsforever wrote:LOL, keep up the good fight scratch. just so we are clear, you keep stating that wales are "the best team in europe". they are not. they have been the best team in 6N competition in the last 2 years.

"the best team in europe" does not stipulate who the opposition are, so to identify who are the "best team in europe" i, like most others, would look at rankings which include results against teams that are frankly a cut above the NH sides. and England are 3rd in that list. so in fact england are "the best team in europe".

if you are imprecise with your language when you make the claims you cant get upset when people call you on it. not my fault.

the reality is the 6N competition has been fairly low quality for the last 2 years as engine says, and i dont think Wales have in any way dominated or put the willies up anyone. they won, well done. but the gulf between wales and SH rugby seems ever present. and unlikely to be traversed in 2 weeks time either.
quins

by your own admission earlier when the MOD tried to rein you in HE WASNT REFERRING TO ME you said you liked to watch peole get wound up YES BUT I DONT MAKE PERSONAL INSULTS

how you think you have wound me up is beyond me but you are clearly a cheap, and poor, WUM on this issue

I am not upset in the least, debating with you is highly amusing as it wouldn't matter what the stats were you would still find a way to express england as superior to wales…you seem to be obsessed with it I COULDNT CARE LESS ABOUT IT. ITS YOU AND SAINT WHO DO. MY BENCHMARKS ARE VS SH SIDES AND RWC PERFORMANCE…you now use the gulf between us and the SH to embellish your point, its called moving the goalposts and you my fried should get a grounds mans job as you are an olympian at it.

i fo rone am hugely critical of wales inconsistency and lack of success v SH

how is tho sfor you

Wales are the best side in european competition AGREE

wales are the best side when they play england AGREE

England have won more calcutta cups - WHO CARES

by quinsforever Tue Nov 19, 2013 12:31 am

Scratch wrote:
quinsforever wrote:
Scratch wrote:Irrelevant RDS, complete exaggeration of the facts, you have only gone and taken the result from the annual game played between two teams, an din a rush of what can only be called 'trying to beat england at any cost' gone and put it in context against the world rankings

such posts deserve to be ridiculed and flagged and you should probably be banned for using facts with gay abandon

p.s. pretty embarrassing to be beaten every year by a team that isn't as good as you
once again you reveal that all you care about is beating england.

tragic to have such limited ambition.

but i begin to understand why people who say england are the best team in europe would be so devastating to you
you have to go on the personal attack don't you

first sign of loss of argument

sad, very very sad

thats not personal, it is directed, as is clear, at anyone who is of the ABE subscriber variety.

by Scratch Tue Nov 19, 2013 12:31 am

quinsforever wrote:
Scratch wrote:Irrelevant RDS, complete exaggeration of the facts, you have only gone and taken the result from the annual game played between two teams, an din a rush of what can only be called 'trying to beat england at any cost' gone and put it in context against the world rankings

such posts deserve to be ridiculed and flagged and you should probably be banned for using facts with gay abandon

p.s. pretty embarrassing to be beaten every year by a team that isn't as good as you
once again you reveal that all you care about is beating england.

tragic to have such limited ambition.

but i begin to understand why people who say england are the best team in europe would be so devastating to you

as tragic i suspect as consistently entering a competition every year and getting the door slammed in your face thumbsup

by quinsforever Tue Nov 19, 2013 12:32 am

RDSguru wrote:IMO, I am just pointing out, that I don't take the world rankings at face value.

Feel free to have your own opinions though

they should put that stirrer emticon up for us to use LOL

by Engine#4 Tue Nov 19, 2013 12:33 am

quinsforever wrote:
Engine#4 wrote:
The Saint wrote:
TJ wrote:When did you last beat SA, NZ or Aus?

Why do you have to claim such stupidity as
third team winning one and then losing one (as expected) against Japan
SA 1999, or 2000, Aus 2013 , NZ a long time ago (something Scotland or Ireland have never done and probably won't do in their next game).

RDSguru wrote:
quinsforever wrote:unfortunately i dont think results in 1953 weight heavily in the IRB rankings...
Just as well.... imagine the Scots and Irish rankings...
Ouch talk about kicking nations when they're down Absolutely gas reading on this collection of threads lads I must say, Welsh fans jealous of Ireland and Scotland because while they may be getting thrashed, not enough people are putting the boot in.

Personally I think that the reason the Welsh are getting a harder time than their Celtic cousins at the moment is pretty obvious-their success recently. They've won the back to back 6Nations titles, one of which was a grand slam (just in case anyone hadn't heard ), and that is no mean feat. There's not much fun to be had slagging off the Irish at the minute, how would it even go?

Fan1: "God, your team were terrible at the weekend, I mean truly awful"
Fan2: "I know mate, I was there, I have eyes"
Fan1: "I mean a loss like that must make you feel pretty bad, please show me that you feel bad so that i can enjoy it"
Fan2: "Not really, last week was mediocre at best, then there was that Italy game in the 6Nations...the Scotland game...the France game..the England game...we haven't been any use for a while, new coach etc building for the future blah blah blah".

The Welsh are top dogs and of course people are going to be gunning for them. However, the key thing for me (and think this will go for many others as well) is that for all their recent success the Welsh haven't convinced me that they're THAT much better than everyone else in Europe. The England game aside, they didn't impress all that much in the last 6Nations. The year before they weren't trouncing all before them either though they did perform better than 2013.

In short, the don't scare anyone. The English, Irish and Scots all think that their teams are capable of pulling out a win out of the bag against Wales and frankly why shouldn't they?
you welsh-hater you

ME!?! Never! Truly cannot wait for the visit of the Welsh next spring, it will be the most fun we have over here in months. The only thing I could dream up to rival it would be if Gatland was announced as playing the villain in the Gaiety theatre's panto this year Laugh

by Scratch Tue Nov 19, 2013 12:34 am

I am surprised quoins hasn't brought out the fake blood yet

by The Saint Tue Nov 19, 2013 12:34 am

TJ wrote:Wales are not the best side in European competition. they have the best recent record. a subtle but important difference. How yo can argue the team raked 6th is above the team ranked 3 rd is a distortion of logic that is quite incredible.

Scotland have beaten Aus more than Aus have beaten Scotland the last 2 years. does that make Scotand a better team than aus? of course not.

Well they're quite clearly the best side in the European competition having won the past two.... You won't be able to see it with those wales-hating spectacles on. And we've already discussed the point about the rankings.

Aus compete against and beat higher ranked teams that Scotland do and a lot more often, so answer is no but not for your reason.

by quinsforever Tue Nov 19, 2013 12:35 am

Scratch wrote:I am surprised quoins hasn't brought out the fake blood yet

good one - first time i've heard that one Laugh

by quinsforever Tue Nov 19, 2013 12:38 am

on a small side note, wales should be thankful that england are ahead of them in the IRB rankings, otherwise wales would be a lot lower than 6th. Victories against teams higher up in the rankings count much more favourably points wise i am told than victories against lower ranked teams.

you're welcome. Run

by RDSguru Tue Nov 19, 2013 12:39 am

Engine#4 wrote:
quinsforever wrote:
Engine#4 wrote:
The Saint wrote:
TJ wrote:When did you last beat SA, NZ or Aus?

Why do you have to claim such stupidity as
third team winning one and then losing one (as expected) against Japan
SA 1999, or 2000, Aus 2013 , NZ a long time ago (something Scotland or Ireland have never done and probably won't do in their next game).

RDSguru wrote:
quinsforever wrote:unfortunately i dont think results in 1953 weight heavily in the IRB rankings...
Just as well.... imagine the Scots and Irish rankings...
Ouch talk about kicking nations when they're down Absolutely gas reading on this collection of threads lads I must say, Welsh fans jealous of Ireland and Scotland because while they may be getting thrashed, not enough people are putting the boot in.

Personally I think that the reason the Welsh are getting a harder time than their Celtic cousins at the moment is pretty obvious-their success recently. They've won the back to back 6Nations titles, one of which was a grand slam (just in case anyone hadn't heard ), and that is no mean feat. There's not much fun to be had slagging off the Irish at the minute, how would it even go?

Fan1: "God, your team were terrible at the weekend, I mean truly awful"
Fan2: "I know mate, I was there, I have eyes"
Fan1: "I mean a loss like that must make you feel pretty bad, please show me that you feel bad so that i can enjoy it"
Fan2: "Not really, last week was mediocre at best, then there was that Italy game in the 6Nations...the Scotland game...the France game..the England game...we haven't been any use for a while, new coach etc building for the future blah blah blah".

The Welsh are top dogs and of course people are going to be gunning for them. However, the key thing for me (and think this will go for many others as well) is that for all their recent success the Welsh haven't convinced me that they're THAT much better than everyone else in Europe. The England game aside, they didn't impress all that much in the last 6Nations. The year before they weren't trouncing all before them either though they did perform better than 2013.

In short, the don't scare anyone. The English, Irish and Scots all think that their teams are capable of pulling out a win out of the bag against Wales and frankly why shouldn't they?
you welsh-hater you
ME!?! Never! Truly cannot wait for the visit of the Welsh next spring, it will be the most fun we have over here in months. The only thing I could dream up to rival it would be if Gatland was announced as playing the villain in the Gaiety theatre's panto this year

Sorry, my part in that was more sarcasm as opposed to putting the boot in! devil

by Bullsbok Tue Nov 19, 2013 12:41 am

quinsforever wrote:on a small side note, wales should be thankful that england are ahead of them in the IRB rankings, otherwise wales would be a lot lower than 6th. Victories against teams higher up in the rankings count much more favourably points wise i am told than victories against lower ranked teams.

you're welcome.

lol

by Sponsored content