Ireland v New Zealand

First topic message reminder :

Right what's done is done regarding Aus. Time to move on and look forward to the ABs. This could be one to watch from behind the couch.

I don't expect any major changes in the team. Murray for Redden being the only obvious change, possibly at tighthead, possibly in the second row. Sexton is doubtful, maybe Earls is available.

My only expectation for this game is for an improved performance as the required level of aggressiveness was just non existent last Saturday. Otherwise we are looking at some hammering.

Without stating the obvious...I would like to see our players try to copy the All Blacks in certain aspects of the game. Namely
1. Passing the ball to another Irish player who is moving forwards and preferably in space
2. When running with the ball try to avoid the opposition players as much as possible instead of seeking out contact.
that is all.

Suas an bothair agus ar aghaidh an tarbh.

Updated with Teams
All Blacks
15 Dagg,14 jane, 13 B Smith, 12 Nonu, 11 Savea, 10 Cruden, 9 A Smith
8 Read, 7 McCaw, 6 Luatua, 5 Whitelock, , 4 Romano, 3 Faumoina, 2 Hore , 1 Crockett

Ireland
R Kearney; T Bowe, B O’Driscoll, G D’Arcy, D Kearney; J Sexton, C Murray; C Healy, R Best, M Ross, D Toner, P O’Connell, P O’Mahony, S O’Brien, J Heaslip.
Replacements: S Cronin, J McGrath, D Fitzpatrick, M McCarthy, K McLaughlin, I Boss, I Madigan, L Fitzgerald.

Hopefully it's just more incentive for him to perform for Ulster.

Maybe the rotation system will see Sexton or Madigan at 12?

Maybe he'll already have some more tools to take with him back to Ulster from training camp.
Maybe being in camp and future camps will make him an even better player.
Maybe he'll have a central location in the Ireland team during the six nations.

Why always the 'downsided' gloom when players aren't picked?

Maybe he's a big figure in Schmidt's future plans and he wants to keep him tight and hungry?
He's already criticised O'Driscoll openly after the Samoa game (something I didn't hear mentioned when people said he criticised Marshall).  He also didn't exactly give Dave Kearney a vote of confidence after Samoa either.  Saying some of it was good, some of it wasn't... and dropped him.

Don't be second guessing this coach so early in.

Dropping Marshall.. I can't say I am surprised, but I am certainly not impressed.  Not good for his confidence after being singled out for the Cooper try, and even worse when he was easily our most dangerous player.  He has not been well managed this tour, I hate to say.

D'Arcy and BOD up against Nonu and Smith.  I can't wait for that one.. 

Its a poor selection Fly whichever way you spin it. Don't get me wrong let's hope d'arce goes well but he won't learn anything he hasn't learnt before. 

Schmidt lamented the fact that his young guys are learning in test matches after the Oz game so maybe that has something to do with it. Not sure where else there is to get test match experience though. He should be more disappointed with his senior players IMO. We will have to wait and see till the 6N

I just don't see any reason to keep Marshall waiting though, Fly.  He was the most dangerous player on the pitch, he looks more than ready, and we need new options.  He is the best option at 12 for now and the future.  I just don't see any reason to drop him and keep D'Arcy.  We want to play our best players.  I would honestly love to know what the logic is behind it.

Unless he was trying to help Ulster, who are having injury troubles right now, but this is a much bigger game where Ireland need the best players.  The NZ midfield will run riot, against a now defensively frail and ageing centre partnership.

Another thing to note is that after this year, we could potentially have an extremely inexperienced 10-12-13 axis, if Sexton does not return to form.  Ireland have waited far too long to look at other options.  I know this isn't Schmidt's fault, but he is going to have to take a risk sooner or later now that we are in this mess.

I just feel like we miss a genuine running threat in the middle of the park now. McFadden and Marshall were the only two backs who were making linebreaks with any consistency and they are both out.

I'm willing to give Schmidt the benefit of the doubt, but if D'Arcy-BOD start the Six Nations together I will start to have serious concerns.

Notch, what do you think of GMac declaring for Ireland at the next Olympics?

Rory_Gallagher wrote:I just don't see any reason to keep Marshall waiting though, Fly.  He was the most dangerous player on the pitch, he looks more than ready, and we need new options.  He is the best option at 12 for now and the future.  I just don't see any reason to drop him and keep D'Arcy.  We want to play our best players.  I would honestly love to know what the logic is behind it.

Unless he was trying to help Ulster, who are having injury troubles right now, but this is a much bigger game where Ireland need the best players.  The NZ midfield will run riot, against a now defensively frail and ageing centre partnership.

Another thing to note is that after this year, we could potentially have an extremely inexperienced 10-12-13 axis, if Sexton does not return to form.  Ireland have waited far too long to look at other options.  I know this isn't Schmidt's fault, but he is going to have to take a risk sooner or later now that we are in this mess.

I'm just saying this before I even read your full post Rory. To everyone I suppose - I was refering to Tuohy in my post - I only refered to Marshall in passing, but Tuohy was my subject as someone mentioned being disappointed that he was sent back to Ulster. Just clearing that one up.

Now, I'll read your post, Rory I'm all mixed up today!

GunsGerms wrote:Notch, what do you think of GMac declaring for Ireland at the next Olympics?

Delighted for him, he'll get to play at an Olympics. Don't really care about it that much tbh.

It's not really a big deal, which country people declare for in the Olympics, except for Rory McIlroy and thats only because of the tabloid press and people who don't care about sport and just want to 'claim' him. Most athletes from NI that compete in Olympic sports declare for whatever nation gives them the best chance of making an Olympics or getting the best funding and coaching. It's not really a political thing and I think most people are like me; they want to see people for Northern Ireland winning medals and being successful whatever flag they are under.

The fact that McIlroy, a Catholic, will probably compete for Britian in the Olympics and McDowell, a Protestant, will probably compete for Ireland is a perfect example of how peoples choices of nation are not stereotypically split the way politics is being perceived as being split along sectarian lines and the main reasons people declare for one nation or the other have little to do with questions of national identity or politics.

In the Olympics I just want all athletes from Northern Ireland to be successful and I also support athletes from the rest of Britain and Ireland.

GunsGerms wrote:Notch, what do you think of GMac declaring for Ireland at the next Olympics?

Reading an interview it sounded more like he had to do it, rather than actually wanting to as he knows he wouldn't make the GB team. He may not even make the Ireland team.

GunsGerms wrote:Notch, what do you think of GMac declaring for Ireland at the next Olympics?

He didn't declare, he's representing Ireland this year at the World Cup which means he's ineligible to play for GB at the Olympics

Notch wrote:

GunsGerms wrote:Notch, what do you think of GMac declaring for Ireland at the next Olympics?

Delighted for him, he'll get to play at an Olympics. Don't really care about it that much tbh.

It's not really a big deal, which country people declare for in the Olympics, except for Rory McIlroy and thats only because of the tabloid press and people who don't care about sport and just want to 'claim' him. Most athletes from NI that compete in Olympic sports declare for whatever nation gives them the best chance of making an Olympics or getting the best funding and coaching. It's not really a political thing and I think most people are like me; they want to see people for Northern Ireland winning medals and being successful whatever flag they are under.

The fact that McIlroy, a Catholic, will probably compete for Britian in the Olympics and McDowell, a Protestant, will probably compete for Ireland is a perfect example of how peoples choices of nation are not stereotypically split the way politics is being perceived as being split along sectarian lines and the main reasons people declare for one nation or the other have little to do with questions of national identity or politics.

In the Olympics I just want all athletes from Northern Ireland to be successful and I also support athletes from the rest of Britain and Ireland.

Thanks for your answer.

marty2086 wrote:

GunsGerms wrote:Notch, what do you think of GMac declaring for Ireland at the next Olympics?

He didn't declare, he's representing Ireland this year at the World Cup which means he's ineligible to play for GB at the Olympics

Come on, thats more or less the same thing. He could have elected not to compete and keep his options open.

LeinsterFan4life wrote:

GunsGerms wrote:Notch, what do you think of GMac declaring for Ireland at the next Olympics?

Reading an interview it sounded more like he had to do it, rather than actually wanting to as he knows he wouldn't make the GB team. He may not even make the Ireland team.

How many will be on the GB team?

Sorry for bringing this up on the rugby board. Just respect the opinion of the NI rugby posters so curious to get their views.

marty2086 wrote:

GunsGerms wrote:Notch, what do you think of GMac declaring for Ireland at the next Olympics?

He didn't declare, he's representing Ireland this year at the World Cup which means he's ineligible to play for GB at the Olympics

“I believe that me being here and representing Ireland will, you know, with the Olympic regulations, will mean that I will have to play for Ireland when it comes to the Olympics in 2016,” McDowell told the PGA Tour. Thats what he says.

GunsGerms wrote:

LeinsterFan4life wrote:

GunsGerms wrote:Notch, what do you think of GMac declaring for Ireland at the next Olympics?

Reading an interview it sounded more like he had to do it, rather than actually wanting to as he knows he wouldn't make the GB team. He may not even make the Ireland team.

How many will be on the GB team?

2 I persume.

GunsGerms wrote:Sorry for bringing this up on the rugby board. Just respect the opinion of the NI rugby posters so curious to get their views.

Might as well discuss it here...we are going to get hammered after all.

Does anyone know when the teams for this game are announced?

Haaaaaaha. Nice Me..

LeinsterFan4life wrote:

GunsGerms wrote:Notch, what do you think of GMac declaring for Ireland at the next Olympics?

Reading an interview it sounded more like he had to do it, rather than actually wanting to as he knows he wouldn't make the GB team. He may not even make the Ireland team.

How big is the team and how many on the team ?

Only McIlroy is close to him in Ireland, maybe Harrington at a push

Notch wrote:I'm willing to give Schmidt the benefit of the doubt, but if D'Arcy-BOD start the Six Nations together I will start to have serious concerns.

 
Notch,
The AIs are one-off 'friendlies' against often top class opposition. But one-offs all the same.

The 6Ns is a serious competition.

Is it not better to sack the present in order to promote the future at this stage in the RWC cycle?

On the golf thing: The best solution would have been to keep golf out of the Olympics in the first place. No, I'm not saying McILroy was such a massive issue that the Olympic movement should decide on golf because of it....  No, I'm just say I think Golf in the Olympics is not something I like, any more than I like football being in it.

The Olympics is just becoming much too big a beast. Virtual mini cities with all the infrastructure now have to be built for each one which is increasingly becoming a grotesque way to spend money in one city for a few weeks of TV sport.

And if golf and football can be catered for, because of the money those fans and their sponsors bring  then where is the limit on 'rights' to be part of the jamboree?  Formula 1?  American Football? Horse racing? Snooker?  Darts? Deep sea fishing? Cricket?

Our next three games are Ireland vs New Zealand, Ireland vs Scotland, Ireland vs Wales all in Dublin

vs 1st in the World
vs 9th in the World
vs 6th in the World

It's clearly easier to introduce young players when you are not playing the best team in the world! The Scotland game is very obviously an easier game to come into than the New Zealand game. I would have started Luke Marshall in this game too, but him sitting it out and coming back for our two opening 6N games is perfectly fine.

I was always brought up to believe that a 'Test Match' is very, very different to a friendly.

SecretFly wrote:On the golf thing:  The best solution would have been to keep golf out of the Olympics in the first place. No, I'm not saying McILroy was such a massive issue that the Olympic movement should decide on golf because of it....  No, I'm just say I think Golf in the Olympics is not something I like, any more than I like football being in it.

The Olympics is just becoming much too big a beast. Virtual mini cities with all the infrastructure now have to be built for each one which is increasingly becoming a grotesque way to spend money in one city for a few weeks of TV sport.

And if golf and football can be catered for, because of the money those fans and their sponsors bring  then where is the limit on 'rights' to be part of the jamboree?  Formula 1?  American Football? Horse racing? Snooker?  Darts? Deep sea fishing? Cricket?

Agree on Golf in the Olympics. And on football, tennis and Rugby Sevens. Any sport in which the Olympics are not the biggest honour in the game shouldn't be there.

geoff999rugby wrote:

LeinsterFan4life wrote:

GunsGerms wrote:Notch, what do you think of GMac declaring for Ireland at the next Olympics?

Reading an interview it sounded more like he had to do it, rather than actually wanting to as he knows he wouldn't make the GB team. He may not even make the Ireland team.

How big is the team and how many on the team ?

Only McIlroy is close to him in Ireland, maybe Harrington at a push

Oh don't get me wrong, he probably will make it. Golf is funny sport though in the sense that players can have serious dip and rise in forms. For example Lee Westwood went from being 300 odd in the world to being number 1 in the space of couple of seasons and is now having another serious dip in form.

Have Ireland played only one AI this year Notch?

I don't think so.

I will not be surprised if BOD and POC for example do not play throughout the 6Ns. But I cannot see why.

Another year lost?

"Another year lost?"

The rest of our six nations buddies will certainly hope so

GunsGerms wrote:

marty2086 wrote:

GunsGerms wrote:Notch, what do you think of GMac declaring for Ireland at the next Olympics?

He didn't declare, he's representing Ireland this year at the World Cup which means he's ineligible to play for GB at the Olympics

Come on, thats more or less the same thing. He could have elected not to compete and keep his options open.

It's it really. He said he always competed for Ireland and he always wanted to compete in that event (the one in melbourne) so it wasn't a difficult decision

There you go then.

Rushed UN sanctioned PC statement has been given to both players to read out in the event of them being asked a question about it.

"I declare I maybe might want to not want to play for Ireland or GB at the Brazilian Olympics....and will be honoured to do so"

Portnoy's Complaint wrote:Have Ireland played only one AI this year Notch?

I don't think so.

I will not be surprised if BOD and POC for example do not play throughout the 6Ns. But I cannot see why.

Another year lost?

You are a very odd poster sometimes Portnoy. I always find it very hard to try and work out what you mean. Another year lost because a guy who will likely play in the Six Nations missed out on selection? He played 80 minutes last week and will have learnt a lot.

We now have the whole Six Nations to blood new players as Schmidt gets more time to implement his ideas. Every test match is a Cup Final, but you have to bring players through slowly all the time. A win against New Zealand is a bigger deal than a championship or a Grand Slam after all. In the Northern Hemisphere only France have had more wins over New Zealand than overall Grand Slam wins in the Five/Six Nations. A win over the All Blacks is harder to achieve and therefore more prestigious.

It's a Cup Final, no less, and we have 8 more games to look at newer players after this. I disagree with the selection of D'Arcy but he likely wouldn't be there but for the injury doubt over Sexton.

What use will BOD and POC be in stemming the tsunami that is predicted to hit the Dubs this week, Notch.

They've forgotten more than they know.

A 0-76 thrashing didn't do Wilko any harm and neither should it do to young Irish Tyros.

But I cant disagree with you on D'Arcy. He's been condemned meat for years.

NZ team named

15 Dagg
14 jane
13 B Smith
12 Nonu
11 Savea
10 Cruden
9 A Smith
8 Read
7 McCaw
6 Luatua
5 Whitelock
4 Romano
3 Faumoina
2 Hore
1 Crockett

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/sport/news/article.cfm?c_id=4&objectid=11161423

Looks alright. Crudens the enforced change. Jane gets another shot on the wing. 5 changes in the forwards. Luatua gets a start. Romano, like Jane gets run of some rust. Hore and Mealamu rotate anyway. Fringe props get a go. Few changes in the reserves. Perenara gets a go.

Savvy selections. Hansen wanted to rest Ben Smith as he's played every test this year but he will probably rest him if NZ build a lead and give Crotty a go. Otherwise that's a very strong bench and lots of insurance to bring on. Jane comes on thinking he has to approach the enthusiasm and effectiveness of Piutau. The rookie finishes the tour thinking he contributed and leaves him wanting more. Luatua gives a chance to shine in the tight as well as the loose.

If NZ are ahead or within the Irish at the 60 minute mark, that bench is disheartening for the Irish as it has quite a bit of impact. Scrum time will be interesting as Ireland will probably seek to get on top in that area as well as the breakdown.

Ireland didn't play well but NZ have only shown glimpses. Will Ireland swing back up or will NZ finally click and finish off the year in emphatic style. If it's dry, I'm plumping for the latter.

Excited about Luatua getting a start. Piataus proven his worth. Man I'm excited about the Blues next year.

I'll be very surprised if this is not a rout.

Based on the performances this AI, I expect an easy game for the All BLacks.

I truly hope that Ireland come out with everything they have and make a game of it.

BUt I don't expect it.

Portnoy's Complaint wrote:

Notch wrote:I'm willing to give Schmidt the benefit of the doubt, but if D'Arcy-BOD start the Six Nations together I will start to have serious concerns.

 
Notch,
The AIs are one-off 'friendlies' against often top class opposition. But one-offs all the same.The 6Ns is a serious competition.

Is it not better to sack the present in order to promote the future at this stage in the RWC cycle?

  And I presume this statement is supported by the fact that the IRFU charge a nice 'friendly' price of admission?

Why are tests friendlies?

Does it make it easier to lose?

Does one feel better because you lose a friendly?

They're not friendlies if you win BB. If you win then they're proof of world class status.

It should be interesting to see how Luatua goes. He's a potential super star of the future. Very young by NZ blind side standards. He's been alright so far. He's considerably bigger than Messam and a good athlete.

Whats all this friendly business? Who in their right mind considers a test match against New Zealand to be a friendly?

When is the Ireland team announced?

Portney and Notch I believe. Obviously, the Irish boys are just out for lark. It's just a game against the AB's. The real battle will be against Italy and Scotland in a couple of months.

GunsGerms wrote:When is the Ireland team announced?

I think they'll leave until late in the day. They'll be giving BOD and a couple of others the maximum time for the fitness test.

Sexton et al due to be named according to thornley despite not training all week (I thought this went against what Joe said in the lead up to the Samoa game?)

Has the Ireland team been announced?

Marshall starting for Ulster tonight - so as expected D'arcy gets the nod.

This one could be painful viewing so Marshall probably better off out of there anyways....

blackcanelion wrote:Portney and Notch I believe. Obviously, the Irish boys are just out for lark. It's just a game against the AB's. The real battle will be against Italy and Scotland in a couple of months.

and people call the English arrogant.