Ireland v New Zealand

First topic message reminder :

Right what's done is done regarding Aus. Time to move on and look forward to the ABs. This could be one to watch from behind the couch.

I don't expect any major changes in the team. Murray for Redden being the only obvious change, possibly at tighthead, possibly in the second row. Sexton is doubtful, maybe Earls is available.

My only expectation for this game is for an improved performance as the required level of aggressiveness was just non existent last Saturday. Otherwise we are looking at some hammering.

Without stating the obvious...I would like to see our players try to copy the All Blacks in certain aspects of the game. Namely
1. Passing the ball to another Irish player who is moving forwards and preferably in space
2. When running with the ball try to avoid the opposition players as much as possible instead of seeking out contact.
that is all.

Suas an bothair agus ar aghaidh an tarbh.

Updated with Teams
All Blacks
15 Dagg,14 jane, 13 B Smith, 12 Nonu, 11 Savea, 10 Cruden, 9 A Smith
8 Read, 7 McCaw, 6 Luatua, 5 Whitelock, , 4 Romano, 3 Faumoina, 2 Hore , 1 Crockett

Ireland
R Kearney; T Bowe, B O’Driscoll, G D’Arcy, D Kearney; J Sexton, C Murray; C Healy, R Best, M Ross, D Toner, P O’Connell, P O’Mahony, S O’Brien, J Heaslip.
Replacements: S Cronin, J McGrath, D Fitzpatrick, M McCarthy, K McLaughlin, I Boss, I Madigan, L Fitzgerald.

blackcanelion wrote:Portney and Notch I believe. Obviously, the Irish boys are just out for lark. It's just a game against the AB's. The real battle will be against Italy and Scotland in a couple of months.

Wtf? I said the exact opposite of that just last night!

Notch wrote:It's a Cup Final, no less

Notch wrote:I was always brought up to believe that a 'Test Match' is very, very different to a friendly.

Portnoy is not Irish he's English- and slightly eccentric to boot.

Team is to be announced today....presume its at lunch time...

Whats this Luatua like? Given Ireland launched McCaws career, all we need is another new star to make his mark against us.

Notch wrote:

GunsGerms wrote:Notch, what do you think of GMac declaring for Ireland at the next Olympics?

Delighted for him, he'll get to play at an Olympics. Don't really care about it that much tbh.

It's not really a big deal, which country people declare for in the Olympics, except for Rory McIlroy and thats only because of the tabloid press and people who don't care about sport and just want to 'claim' him. Most athletes from NI that compete in Olympic sports declare for whatever nation gives them the best chance of making an Olympics or getting the best funding and coaching. It's not really a political thing and I think most people are like me; they want to see people for Northern Ireland winning medals and being successful whatever flag they are under.

The fact that McIlroy, a Catholic, will probably compete for Britian in the Olympics and McDowell, a Protestant, will probably compete for Ireland is a perfect example of how peoples choices of nation are not stereotypically split the way politics is being perceived as being split along sectarian lines and the main reasons people declare for one nation or the other have little to do with questions of national identity or politics.

In the Olympics I just want all athletes from Northern Ireland to be successful and I also support athletes from the rest of Britain and Ireland.

+1

Any NI sportsman/woman I know would be honoured to be asked to represent either GB or Ireland. The decision is usually pragmatic. It is much easier to get selected for Ireland in most sports (smaller country, smaller talent pool) so some will turn down an offer of an Irish place for hold out for a GB one. Some will also look at the level of support the different national sporting bodies offer in terms of finance, medical backup etc. A few will make their decision on national identity but the numbers in that group are, understandably small. Most sportsmen want to compete at the highest level they can so the decision is made on sport criteria.

I even wrote that beating the All Blacks was more prestigious and a bigger achievement than winning a Six Nations Grand Slam! blackcanelion- you should apologise.

MrsP wrote:+1

Any NI sportsman/woman I know would be honoured to be asked to represent either GB or Ireland. The decision is usually pragmatic. It is much easier to get selected for Ireland in most sports (smaller country, smaller talent pool) so some will turn down an offer of an Irish place for hold out for a GB one. Some will also look at the level of support the different national sporting bodies offer in terms of finance, medical backup etc. A few will make their decision on national identity but the numbers in that group are, understandably small. Most sportsmen want to compete at the highest level they can so the decision is made on sport criteria.

Nice to be able to discuss such topics with a sensible crowd. The gold board is like a wasps nest when it comes to NI golfers.

Notch wrote:

blackcanelion wrote:Portney and Notch I believe. Obviously, the Irish boys are just out for lark. It's just a game against the AB's. The real battle will be against Italy and Scotland in a couple of months.

Wtf? I said the exact opposite of that just last night!

Notch wrote:It's a Cup Final, no less

Notch wrote:I was always brought up to believe that a 'Test Match' is very, very different to a friendly.

Portnoy is not Irish he's English- and slightly eccentric to boot.

Sorry Notch. No offence intended. Didn't scroll back through the whole conversation. By Irish boys I meant the team, not you. More an attempted light hearted dig at the concept of the game being a friendly. I think it could be an intense match. There's a lot for Ireland to play for. Always loved the boys in Green.

The thought of McIlroy deciding to not play in the Olympics so he wouldn't annoy anyone is such a lose-lose situation that I would hope any golf fan would catch themselves on!

MrsP wrote:The thought of McIlroy deciding to not play in the Olympics so he wouldn't annoy anyone is such a lose-lose situation that I would hope any golf fan would catch themselves on!

Really? If I was him I wouldnt bother. Golf in the Olympics is fairly insignificant for a man of his talent.

blackcanelion wrote:Portney and Notch I believe. Obviously, the Irish boys are just out for lark. It's just a game against the AB's. The real battle will be against Italy and Scotland in a couple of months.

Just Portnoy, who is English. Notch set him straight.
I often wonder how most New Zealanders seem genuinely sound when discussing rugby given their success over the years. Obviously there are always exceptions.

GunsGerms wrote:

MrsP wrote:The thought of McIlroy deciding to not play in the Olympics so he wouldn't annoy anyone is such a lose-lose situation that I would hope any golf fan would catch themselves on!

Really? If I was him I wouldnt bother. Golf in the Olympics is fairly insignificant for a man of his talent.

I think most sportsmen would see an Olympic medal as something special that they would love to attain.

MrsP wrote:

GunsGerms wrote:

MrsP wrote:The thought of McIlroy deciding to not play in the Olympics so he wouldn't annoy anyone is such a lose-lose situation that I would hope any golf fan would catch themselves on!

Really? If I was him I wouldnt bother. Golf in the Olympics is fairly insignificant for a man of his talent.

I think most sportsmen would see an Olympic medal as something special that they would love to attain.

Really? In the Olympics golf is a new event with 0 history and prestige. Its up there with pointless Olympic sports such as football. I really dont understand why such sports that are massively popular in their own right become Olympic sports. Surely the Olympic's should try to remain true to its track and field roots as possible.

Submachine wrote:

blackcanelion wrote:Portney and Notch I believe. Obviously, the Irish boys are just out for lark. It's just a game against the AB's. The real battle will be against Italy and Scotland in a couple of months.

Just Portnoy, who is English. Notch set him straight.
I often wonder how most New Zealanders seem genuinely sound when discussing rugby given their success over the years.  Obviously there are always exceptions.

Point taken.

Seeing as it's the AB's Ireland game. Here's a short vid you might find interesting:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=shNwVflrvWY

It's a look ay Read in the build up to his first game against Ireland.

Well I'm not enamoured of the inclusion of those sports either but I reckon most sportsmen would still see an Olympic medal as something worth persuing.

I wonder if we are capable of putting the ABs under the same amount of pressure as in this clip and if the crowd are actually capable of getting behind the team....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U6UU3_fZdbU

Crowd at the last two games was quite bad really. Aussie match was one of the worst Ireland games I gave even been to. Whats going on?

GunsGerms wrote:Crowd at the last two games was quite bad really. Aussie match was one of the worst Ireland games I gave even been to. Whats going on?

Just don't know...its really a "sit back and entertain us" attitude....no attempts to get behind the team.

GunsGerms wrote:Crowd at the last two games was quite bad really. Aussie match was one of the worst Ireland games I gave even been to. Whats going on?

Agreed it shames me to say the atmosphere is inferior to the other 3 Home nations

As for that piped music - what a load of Poopie

If you go to Ravenhill, Thomond Park or even the RDS the crowd are always up for it....

Reddan is in the Leinster 23.

blackcanelion wrote:

Submachine wrote:

blackcanelion wrote:Portney and Notch I believe. Obviously, the Irish boys are just out for lark. It's just a game against the AB's. The real battle will be against Italy and Scotland in a couple of months.

Just Portnoy, who is English. Notch set him straight.
I often wonder how most New Zealanders seem genuinely sound when discussing rugby given their success over the years.  Obviously there are always exceptions.

Point taken.

To be fair I did enclose the word friendly in inverted commas and stressed the one-off nature of the AIs whilst comparing them with the 6Ns competition.

Look it up. I haven't but I'm pretty sure that that's the case.

Cut out your dead wood before it's too late.
Ireland (and France) really are equally my second-favourite sides.
And I'd like to think that Ireland will do brilliantly if they achieve greater than 4th in next year's 6Ns.

Eoin Reddan and Shane Jennings named in the Leinster team for tomorrow- Reddan is on the bench.

So Boss is on the bench for Ireland is it?

Might well be, we'll see in an hours time.

Its Boss/ Murray either way, all other options have been released to their clubs.
Who starts is the question.

Well he deserved to be ahead of Reddan going on form but is he a bit similar to Murray. Probably means we wont be looking to up the tempo at any stage, which makes sense.

It's psychological warfare. Once the All Blacks realise we have a guy who couldn't get a game at 9 for Waikato on the bench they'll brown their breeches.

Thornleys prediction;

IRELAND (possible): R Kearney; T Bowe, B O’Driscoll, G D’Arcy, D Kearney; J Sexton, C Murray; C Healy, R Best, M Ross, D Toner, P O’Connell, P O’Mahony, S O’Brien, J Heaslip. Replacements: S Cronin, J McGrath, D Fitzpatrick, M McCarthy, K McLaughlin, I Boss, I Madigan, L Fitzgerald.

I guess we're just waiting to see if Sexton makes it now. All the other permutations seem settled.

Its a funny situation to be in when you kind of know you are number 2 out-half but you either start or miss out entirely due to the 3rd choices versatility on the bench.

Its also a little frustrating that we could have had Jackson up at Ravers tonight. But what can you do. Thats rugby for you!

If Boss is there it's a good call.

Notch wrote:It's psychological warfare. Once the All Blacks realise we have a guy who couldn't get a game at 9 for Waikato on the bench they'll brown their breeches.

Thornleys prediction;

IRELAND (possible): R Kearney; T Bowe, B O’Driscoll, G D’Arcy, D Kearney; J Sexton, C Murray; C Healy, R Best, M Ross, D Toner, P O’Connell, P O’Mahony, S O’Brien, J Heaslip. Replacements: S Cronin, J McGrath, D Fitzpatrick, M McCarthy, K McLaughlin, I Boss, I Madigan, L Fitzgerald.

I guess we're just waiting to see if Sexton makes it now. All the other permutations seem settled.

Team is as Thornley predicted...no real surprises I guess.

Maybe Paddy Jackson will be allowed to drive up to Belfast and sit on the bench for us tonight? Could just be a blind hope on my part but it would be good.

Schmidt basically just said D'arcy only got picked because of the doubt over Sexton. There was a likelihood that Jackson would play and he basically didnt want the inexperience of both Jackson and Marshall.

In fairness, I do appreciate the way he talks about the guys who missed out and actually tries to give reason and praise.

Deccie used to just say
"Well you know, they both did very very well in training, but in the end I just chose one, and thats just that!"

clivemcl wrote:Schmidt basically just said D'arcy only got picked because of the doubt over Sexton. There was a likelihood that Jackson would play and he basically didnt want the inexperience of both Jackson and Marshall.

In fairness, I do appreciate the way he talks about the guys who missed out and actually tries to give reason and praise.

Deccie used to just say
"Well you know, they both did very very well in training, but in the end I just chose one, and thats just that!"

Did he actually say that Clive or are you paraphrasing (making it up).

Another way of looking at it is he just said he didn't trust Luke Marshall as a player.

We really are badly short on 2nd rows.

He spoke about how earlier in the week they had Jackson at 10 and Henshaw at 13 and there was a good chance that those two would start if Sexton and BOD didn't pass fitness tests so they wanted experience- their mind was made up for them.

LeinsterFan4life wrote:We really are badly short on 2nd rows.

There is a guy on the bench for Ulster tonight who is quite handy.

ME-109 wrote:

clivemcl wrote:Schmidt basically just said D'arcy only got picked because of the doubt over Sexton. There was a likelihood that Jackson would play and he basically didnt want the inexperience of both Jackson and Marshall.

In fairness, I do appreciate the way he talks about the guys who missed out and actually tries to give reason and praise.

Deccie used to just say
"Well you know, they both did very very well in training, but in the end I just chose one, and thats just that!"

Did he actually say that Clive or are you paraphrasing (making it up).

Another way of looking at it is he just said he didn't trust Luke Marshall as a player.

Well yea i'm paraphrasing, but not making it up. He said Darcy was picked for his experience since there was a chance Jackson would be starting.

clivemcl wrote:

ME-109 wrote:

clivemcl wrote:Schmidt basically just said D'arcy only got picked because of the doubt over Sexton. There was a likelihood that Jackson would play and he basically didnt want the inexperience of both Jackson and Marshall.

In fairness, I do appreciate the way he talks about the guys who missed out and actually tries to give reason and praise.

Deccie used to just say
"Well you know, they both did very very well in training, but in the end I just chose one, and thats just that!"

Did he actually say that Clive or are you paraphrasing (making it up).

Another way of looking at it is he just said he didn't trust Luke Marshall as a player.

Well yea i'm paraphrasing, but not making it up. He said Darcy was picked for his experience since there was a chance Jackson would be starting.

Ok..but now with Sexton starting shouldn't he have picked Marshall? (I think he should have). It doesn't make sense and looks like an excuse now that Marshall is sent back to Ulster.

LeinsterFan4life wrote:We really are badly short on 2nd rows.

Well that just shows how much trouble we are in that we are relying on an guy from England to solve our problems.

ME-109 wrote:

clivemcl wrote:

ME-109 wrote:

clivemcl wrote:Schmidt basically just said D'arcy only got picked because of the doubt over Sexton. There was a likelihood that Jackson would play and he basically didnt want the inexperience of both Jackson and Marshall.

In fairness, I do appreciate the way he talks about the guys who missed out and actually tries to give reason and praise.

Deccie used to just say
"Well you know, they both did very very well in training, but in the end I just chose one, and thats just that!"

Did he actually say that Clive or are you paraphrasing (making it up).

Another way of looking at it is he just said he didn't trust Luke Marshall as a player.

Well yea i'm paraphrasing, but not making it up. He said Darcy was picked for his experience since there was a chance Jackson would be starting.

Ok..but now with Sexton starting shouldn't he have picked Marshall? (I think he should have). It doesn't make sense and looks like an excuse now that Marshall is sent back to Ulster.

I imagine its its to do with how they trained with D'Arcy during the week because they had decided on him by that point.

Are you suggesting Schmidt just thinks Darcy is better and is smoothing over his decision?

LeinsterFan4life wrote:

LeinsterFan4life wrote:We really are badly short on 2nd rows.

Well that just shows how much trouble we are in that we are relying on an guy from England to solve our problems.

and lets not forget flying in kiwi props especially for international matches...

clivemcl wrote:

Are you suggesting Schmidt just thinks Darcy is better and is smoothing over his decision?

I doubt he is saying that.... but I doubt too that he's saying "Look, D'arce is wasted now at this level but we needed his experience for this game"
Again - it always seems to have to be a debate about a coach prefering one player for a game meaning the coach thinks the alternative is crap.

Ain't necessarily so.

LeinsterFan4life wrote:

LeinsterFan4life wrote:We really are badly short on 2nd rows.

Well that just shows how much trouble we are in that we are relying on an guy from England to solve our problems.

Blah, blah, blah. Jamie Heaslip was born to two Irish parents living overseas. Ronan O'Gara was born to two Irish parents living overseas. Dan Tuohy was born to two Irish parents living overseas.

But because one has an English accent we're relying on 'some guy from England'  

Notch wrote:

LeinsterFan4life wrote:

LeinsterFan4life wrote:We really are badly short on 2nd rows.

Well that just shows how much trouble we are in that we are relying on an guy from England to solve our problems.

Blah, blah, blah. Jamie Heaslip was born to two Irish parents living overseas. Ronan O'Gara was born to two Irish parents living overseas. Dan Tuohy was born to two Irish parents living overseas.

But because one has an English accent we're relying on 'some guy from England'  

I didn't know he had two irish parents. Thats fair enough then.

Notch wrote:

LeinsterFan4life wrote:

LeinsterFan4life wrote:We really are badly short on 2nd rows.

Well that just shows how much trouble we are in that we are relying on an guy from England to solve our problems.

Blah, blah, blah. Jamie Heaslip was born to two Irish parents living overseas. Ronan O'Gara was born to two Irish parents living overseas. Dan Tuohy was born to two Irish parents living overseas.
 

That makes him Irish...nuff said.

clivemcl wrote:

LeinsterFan4life wrote:

LeinsterFan4life wrote:We really are badly short on 2nd rows.

Well that just shows how much trouble we are in that we are relying on an guy from England to solve our problems.

and lets not forget flying in kiwi props especially for international matches...

Ye we had a real shortage of props then and that showed how bad the situation had got. I hope the same doesn't happen with 2nd row. I think we are finally starting to produce good quality TH's such as Moore and Furlong. We have plenty of options at LH now too.

LeinsterFan4life wrote:

Notch wrote:

LeinsterFan4life wrote:

LeinsterFan4life wrote:We really are badly short on 2nd rows.

Well that just shows how much trouble we are in that we are relying on an guy from England to solve our problems.

Blah, blah, blah. Jamie Heaslip was born to two Irish parents living overseas. Ronan O'Gara was born to two Irish parents living overseas. Dan Tuohy was born to two Irish parents living overseas.

But because one has an English accent we're relying on 'some guy from England'  

I didn't know he had two irish parents. Thats fair enough then.

And for the record, Bent had no irish parents...
 

clivemcl wrote:

ME-109 wrote:

clivemcl wrote:

ME-109 wrote:

clivemcl wrote:Schmidt basically just said D'arcy only got picked because of the doubt over Sexton. There was a likelihood that Jackson would play and he basically didnt want the inexperience of both Jackson and Marshall.

In fairness, I do appreciate the way he talks about the guys who missed out and actually tries to give reason and praise.

Deccie used to just say
"Well you know, they both did very very well in training, but in the end I just chose one, and thats just that!"

Did he actually say that Clive or are you paraphrasing (making it up).

Another way of looking at it is he just said he didn't trust Luke Marshall as a player.

Well yea i'm paraphrasing, but not making it up. He said Darcy was picked for his experience since there was a chance Jackson would be starting.

Ok..but now with Sexton starting shouldn't he have picked Marshall? (I think he should have). It doesn't make sense and looks like an excuse now that Marshall is sent back to Ulster.

I imagine its its to do with how they trained with D'Arcy during the week because they had decided on him by that point.

Are you suggesting Schmidt just thinks Darcy is better and is smoothing over his decision?

I believe that Schmidt was always going to pick Darcy based on his like for him in the past. Why not pick Marshall with Jackson for example (they look pretty solid to me when they play for Ulster) if Marshall is the better player and the future. If as most people seem to agree Marshall is a better player why not just pick him regardless?

clivemcl wrote:

LeinsterFan4life wrote:

Notch wrote:

LeinsterFan4life wrote:

LeinsterFan4life wrote:We really are badly short on 2nd rows.

Well that just shows how much trouble we are in that we are relying on an guy from England to solve our problems.

Blah, blah, blah. Jamie Heaslip was born to two Irish parents living overseas. Ronan O'Gara was born to two Irish parents living overseas. Dan Tuohy was born to two Irish parents living overseas.

But because one has an English accent we're relying on 'some guy from England'  

I didn't know he had two irish parents. Thats fair enough then.

And for the record, Bent had no irish parents...
 

He's as close to being one as Tom Court...how many caps did we give that lad?

SecretFly wrote:

clivemcl wrote:

Are you suggesting Schmidt just thinks Darcy is better and is smoothing over his decision?

I doubt he is saying that.... but I doubt too that he's saying "Look, D'arce is wasted now at this level but we needed his experience for this game"
Again - it always seems to have to be a debate about a coach prefering one player for a game meaning the coach thinks the alternative is crap.

Ain't necessarily so.

That's a good excuse alright