Ireland v New Zealand

First topic message reminder :

Right what's done is done regarding Aus. Time to move on and look forward to the ABs. This could be one to watch from behind the couch.

I don't expect any major changes in the team. Murray for Redden being the only obvious change, possibly at tighthead, possibly in the second row. Sexton is doubtful, maybe Earls is available.

My only expectation for this game is for an improved performance as the required level of aggressiveness was just non existent last Saturday. Otherwise we are looking at some hammering.

Without stating the obvious...I would like to see our players try to copy the All Blacks in certain aspects of the game. Namely
1. Passing the ball to another Irish player who is moving forwards and preferably in space
2. When running with the ball try to avoid the opposition players as much as possible instead of seeking out contact.
that is all.

Suas an bothair agus ar aghaidh an tarbh.

Updated with Teams
All Blacks
15 Dagg,14 jane, 13 B Smith, 12 Nonu, 11 Savea, 10 Cruden, 9 A Smith
8 Read, 7 McCaw, 6 Luatua, 5 Whitelock, , 4 Romano, 3 Faumoina, 2 Hore , 1 Crockett

Ireland
R Kearney; T Bowe, B O’Driscoll, G D’Arcy, D Kearney; J Sexton, C Murray; C Healy, R Best, M Ross, D Toner, P O’Connell, P O’Mahony, S O’Brien, J Heaslip.
Replacements: S Cronin, J McGrath, D Fitzpatrick, M McCarthy, K McLaughlin, I Boss, I Madigan, L Fitzgerald.

JmD wrote:Cruden shouldn't have got a second kick. If the first one had gone in Owens would have counted it, he should have blown the whistle previous to the kick and stopped Cruden, or counted the miss.

Ay? Do you not know the rules. Yes it counts if he gets it but its assumed they put him off by going early. Which they did. So he gets it again. Happened the first try. They went early then as well. Three of them. Not very smart. Doesn't matter now anyway.

I was prepared for a welcome to the club Ireland thread. Watching it with Irish friends but couldn't contain my joy when that second kick went over.

So much heart from Nz shown and a never give up attitude. These guys just showed enormous heart.

To the Irish lads put your heads up. Sexton will have nightmares and it's a truly heart wrenching result as evident on the faces of my Irish mates. The way you played in that first half was unbelievable. I know it hurts as I was prepared for a loss but the boys did you proud. Gutted for Ireland especially BOD and Sexton. I don't know whether to be happy or sad. Strange game but a great game of roller coaster emotions.

majesticimperialman wrote:You have to feel sory for Ireland, so close to making history and yet they may as well have been a thousand mile away.

Well played NZ for making  the come back that they did..Should Cruden have had that second kick at goal?

Surely Ireland will take a lot out of this game into the 6ns.

I've heard this far too often regarding Ireland over the past few years.  A lot of should've, would've, could've.  Too many near wins, too many "aw well done, you were so close".  It isn't good enough.  We need results.  We need consistency.  It is pathetic, and we have held the mediocrity badge proud for far, far too long.  It is time to man up and get results.

I hope Schmidt treats this like any other game.  He should be absolutely furious, that was our game to win and we blew it.

Absolutely gutted. We should have won that.
Well done to the ABs though on such a great achievement  

Cracking game. Superb Irish performance, that's what we know and want that side to produce. But great comeback by NZ.

The All Blacks have looked much more human on this tour than we thought before it. The only thing is the sort of intense rugby that looks like can beat them is near impossible to keep up for the whole match.

Murray had his best ever game for Ireland, but why was he box kicking in the last 10mins? It was crazy stuff....

We just don't have the fitness levels to beat these teams. I think Schmidt needs to get there to be a shake up in conditioning levels in the provinces

This again shows how tough it is to keep winning when you've won it all. The other side does raise its game unbelievably. England did it last year and Ireland this year. No way would Ireland have come this close if they'd played like last week versus oz. Same with England's matches either side last year.

Will Sexton ever recover?

Taylorman wrote:

JmD wrote:Cruden shouldn't have got a second kick. If the first one had gone in Owens would have counted it, he should have blown the whistle previous to the kick and stopped Cruden, or counted the miss.

Ay? Do you not know the rules. Yes it counts if he gets it but its assumed they put him off by going early. Which they did. So he gets it again. Happened the first try. They went early then as well. Three of them. Not very smart. Doesn't matter now anyway.

It happened earlier on but nothing was said about it. It should have been addressed to stop it happening again, can't just give Cruden a practice kick.

Golden wrote:We just don't have the fitness levels to beat these teams. I think Schmidt needs to get there to be a shake up in conditioning levels in the provinces

Belief overcame the fitness levels. Sextons missed kick was crucial. Had that gone over it probably would have been it...a try and restart to score too much to beat.

If you give any test kicker 2 shots from the same spot he will get it.

That was stuoid from Ireland to try and charge a kick from so deep.

Taylorman wrote:

Golden wrote:We just don't have the fitness levels to beat these teams. I think Schmidt needs to get there to be a shake up in conditioning levels in the provinces

Belief overcame the fitness levels. Sextons missed kick was crucial. Had that gone over it probably would have been it...a try and restart to score too much to beat.

The belief can only take you so far though. The irish players were out on their feet ten minutes into the second half. Other teams are just fitter I think

Biltong wrote:If you give any test kicker 2 shots from the same spot he will get it.

That was stuoid from Ireland to try and charge a kick from so deep.

Feel bad for the guys who charged down the kick. There really was no need for all that . It was a difficult enough kick and Cruden had a good chance to miss without their help

Biltong wrote:If you give any test kicker 2 shots from the same spot he will get it.

That was stuoid from Ireland to try and charge a kick from so deep.

Including Sexton?

Golden wrote:

Taylorman wrote:

Golden wrote:We just don't have the fitness levels to beat these teams. I think Schmidt needs to get there to be a shake up in conditioning levels in the provinces

Belief overcame the fitness levels. Sextons missed kick was crucial. Had that gone over it probably would have been it...a try and restart to score too much to beat.

The belief can only take you so far though. The irish players were out on their feet ten minutes into the second half.  Other teams are just fitter I think

Totally agree with that. You could see Ireland was only hanging on the last quarter.

Norfolklass wrote:

Biltong wrote:If you give any test kicker 2 shots from the same spot he will get it.

That was stuoid from Ireland to try and charge a kick from so deep.

Including Sexton?

Yep, I felt sorry for him, he had the wieight of a nation on his shoulders when he stepped up for that kick, he was solely responsible for having to take a kick to end a more than 100 year drought against the AB's, you could see in his demeanor that his nerves got to him.

He is usually fidgety as he "feels" for his setup just before his kick. With this one his feet were like lead.

Great empty feeling inside. Truly heroic contest - analysis can wait. Tremendous pride vying for supremacy with massive regret for the slipping away of a rare opportunity....

'Bí bród go bhfuil tú Éireannach' tonight, even if it's just the half of me!

Yep have to agree. Sextons kick was critical. The most under pressure moment of his entire career. That kick left a flicker in the dimming light of the ABs.

Cannot describe how sorry I feel for Ireland.
The largest of kicks in the crackers.
The whole country deserved a result.
Hopefully Sexton gets over this.

the demise of irish rugby has been greatly exagerated.

Biltong wrote:

Norfolklass wrote:

Biltong wrote:If you give any test kicker 2 shots from the same spot he will get it.

That was stuoid from Ireland to try and charge a kick from so deep.

Including Sexton?

Yep, I felt sorry for him, he had the wieight of a nation on his shoulders when he stepped up for that kick, he was solely responsible for having to take a kick to end a more than 100 year drought against the AB's, you could see in his demeanor that his nerves got to him.

He is usually fidgety as he "feels" for his setup just before his kick. With this one his feet were like lead.

That will hurt him. He will never be the same player.

Incredible game, really feel for the Irish boys, well done NZ.

Norfolklass wrote:

Biltong wrote:

Norfolklass wrote:

Biltong wrote:If you give any test kicker 2 shots from the same spot he will get it.

That was stuoid from Ireland to try and charge a kick from so deep.

Including Sexton?

Yep, I felt sorry for him, he had the wieight of a nation on his shoulders when he stepped up for that kick, he was solely responsible for having to take a kick to end a more than 100 year drought against the AB's, you could see in his demeanor that his nerves got to him.

He is usually fidgety as he "feels" for his setup just before his kick. With this one his feet were like lead.

That will hurt him.  He will never be the same player.

What a load of bol!ocks

That's twice this weekend that the Kiwis have won games in the dying seconds. Yesterday in the rugby league World Cup v England, and today's match.

You certainly never say die!

Golden wrote:

Norfolklass wrote:

Biltong wrote:

Norfolklass wrote:

Biltong wrote:If you give any test kicker 2 shots from the same spot he will get it.

That was stuoid from Ireland to try and charge a kick from so deep.

Including Sexton?

Yep, I felt sorry for him, he had the wieight of a nation on his shoulders when he stepped up for that kick, he was solely responsible for having to take a kick to end a more than 100 year drought against the AB's, you could see in his demeanor that his nerves got to him.

He is usually fidgety as he "feels" for his setup just before his kick. With this one his feet were like lead.

That will hurt him.  He will never be the same player.

What a load of bol!ocks

halfpenny missed a last minute kick in a world cup semi final,he's doing just fine,so will sexton.

Delighted with he performance but gutted with the result.

Moving on to the 6N we need to introduce consistency,that has been our failing for years so Schmidt needs to work on getting it right every time.I don' expect that level of manic intensity every game but last week was unacceptable when you compare it with this week.If we can play to a strong level consistently then we can win the 6N.

Leinster nearly beat the Keewees. That Racing gobshoite feiced it up for us. He wasn't right, you could see it in his approach. Should have been replaced by the Leinster man Madigan, 10  mins earlier. Crucial mistake there Joe.

Incredible game. One had palpatations.

Gutted,  but so proud.We are on  the right track under Schmidt. This we know now. Not too bad for his 3rd game in. Frightening the bejaysus out of the best team on the Planet. We were the better team out there, all over the park... but they do that voodoo like they do so well.

The younger players out there today now know they can beat the Keewees. The aulfellas have had their go and will be replaced  by the next generation where needed. BOD, Dorce (MOTM for me) and, Ross, need their game time limited from here on in. It will happen.  Schmidt wont shirk it.

That was  a huge shift in mentality under Schmidt. We were like the Keewees out there in the 1st half.

We are the best team in the NH and we will get a lot better  under Schmidt. Daaahnt get daaahhn me aul muckers, Rejoice!

And Believe.

Golden wrote:

Norfolklass wrote:

Biltong wrote:

Norfolklass wrote:

Biltong wrote:If you give any test kicker 2 shots from the same spot he will get it.

That was stuoid from Ireland to try and charge a kick from so deep.

Including Sexton?

Yep, I felt sorry for him, he had the wieight of a nation on his shoulders when he stepped up for that kick, he was solely responsible for having to take a kick to end a more than 100 year drought against the AB's, you could see in his demeanor that his nerves got to him.

He is usually fidgety as he "feels" for his setup just before his kick. With this one his feet were like lead.

That will hurt him.  He will never be the same player.

What a load of bol!ocks

That was a career defining moment. No doubt. How he reacts to that is crucial. He may draw strength from that moment. He may crumble. Either way, he will never be the same player again. I predict, like Halfpenny, he will prosper.

Congratulations Ireland, a win in all but the score. This will have a huge impact on their confidence going into the 6 Nations

Gibson wrote:Leinster nearly beat the Keewees. That Racing gobshoite feiced it up for us. He wasn't right, you could see it in his approach. Should have been replaced by the Leinster man Madigan, 10  mins earlier. Crucial mistake there Joe.

Incredible game. One had palpatations.

Gutted,  but so proud.We are on  the right track under Schmidt. This we know now. Not too bad for his 3rd game in. Frightening the bejaysus out of the best team on the Planet. We were the better team out there, all over the park... but they do that voodoo like they do so well.

The younger players out there today now know they can beat the Keewees. The aulfellas have had their go and will be replaced  by the next generation where needed. BOD, Dorce (MOTM for me) and, Ross, need their game time limited from here on in. It will happen.  Schmidt wont shirk it.

That was  a huge shift in mentality under Schmidt. We were like the Keewees out there in the 1st half.

We are the best team in the NH and we will get a lot better  under Schmidt. Daaahnt get daaahhn me aul muckers, Rejoice!

And Believe.

Way too early to say. we got closer under Deccie and down there as well. Unless the performance is built upon it means F all.

Good experience for the likes of McFadden, Kearney jnr, McGrath, Cronin, Toner, Madigan, Jackson, Marshall and Henshaw over the last 3 games though.

Well done both teams. Such a hard loss for Ireland after such a great start.

Gutted for guys like POC, BOD and D'arcy who probably won't have a go at the All Blacks again.

Ah jayz Golden, I saw POM, SOB and Heaslip put the best backrow ever in their place out there. I saw our lineout outshine theirs out there. I saw us take em head on at the scrum out there. I' m happy we have the ability to repeat that against anyone after that.

NO MORE phhokin soft day tank God attitude. We can beat the best on the Planet. Just need to ingrain that winning attitude into the newbies. Best, Murray, Healy, Kearney, POM, SOB. Sexton, Heaslip and POC already have it. Cronin was brilliant out there btw. It just needs to spread to the rest.  I believe in Schmidt more than ever after last week. He turned the same team around massively. The pressure was immense and he came through. Different mindset altogether out there today And our execution of Schmidt's game plan was superb.

Remember that mate? A game plan?

Positive vibes man.

Rory_Gallagher wrote:

majesticimperialman wrote:You have to feel sory for Ireland, so close to making history and yet they may as well have been a thousand mile away.

Well played NZ for making  the come back that they did..Should Cruden have had that second kick at goal?

Surely Ireland will take a lot out of this game into the 6ns.

I've heard this far too often regarding Ireland over the past few years.  A lot of should've, would've, could've.  Too many near wins, too many "aw well done, you were so close".  It isn't good enough.  We need results.  We need consistency.  It is pathetic, and we have held the mediocrity badge proud for far, far too long.  It is time to man up and get results.

I hope Schmidt treats this like any other game.  He should be absolutely furious, that was our game to win and we blew it.

Couldn't agree more. Ireland cannot be happy with that performance. We blew a 19 point lead in an international. We've come this close before and lost 60-0 the next week. It means nothing. We need to win, and until then we are still at square one. It's pathetic indeed.

Do you think the All Blacks/England '03 ever celebrate(d) a moral victory?  The only result us supporter's should be happy with is a victory. Otherwise we are complicit in the problem. We are celebrating the mediocre, and treating our opponents like gods. Whether the players admit it or not, the public's reaction will always be in the back of their mind. Deep down, players know the public will celebrate a moral victory, and its therefore ok to achieve one (or at least not completely unacceptable).

Case in point : Shane Horgan (of all people) stated he would be very happy with merely a performance from Ireland prior to the game. We have no "win at all costs" mentality. The very attribute that won it for New Zealand.

Cian Healy spoke before the game about how he wouldn't call NZ the all blacks. He didn't give any credence to what the irish media were saying during the week (surely to the detriment of our team), chomping at the bit to lay compliment after compliment onto our opponents. He treated them like any other opponents, and had a stormer. Every player has to adopt this attitude, and for this to happen, us supporters must change.

What a performance!

So disappointed for the lads.

But, what a performance.

Should Sexton have taken that kick? He wasn't right.

He will be fine though despite the wishes of some on here.

Biltong wrote:

Golden wrote:

Taylorman wrote:

Golden wrote:We just don't have the fitness levels to beat these teams. I think Schmidt needs to get there to be a shake up in conditioning levels in the provinces

Belief overcame the fitness levels. Sextons missed kick was crucial. Had that gone over it probably would have been it...a try and restart to score too much to beat.

The belief can only take you so far though. The irish players were out on their feet ten minutes into the second half.  Other teams are just fitter I think

Totally agree with that. You could see Ireland was only hanging on the last quarter.

tis odd then. It is the Abs that are touring, are at the end of a very long year. Happened in SA as well. How is it that the ABs not only have the most skilful players, but the fittest as well?
Fitness is one of the more easily attainable attributes at this level. Do the ABs train harder?

I thought Deccie Fitz was excellent when he came on,did some real damage with his ball carrying.If he can stay fit and replicate that type of play he should be staring in the 6N.

mystiroakey wrote:All I can say is that this kiwi side as proven 3 games on the spin are not the greatest sporting side ever. Marginally the best rugby side s the best tag I can give them..

No disrespect to Ireland. Now come on and finish the job..

On the contrary. This side showed exactly why they are the greatest sporting side. All heart. Never say die. Only champion sides have that.

Taylorman wrote:

mystiroakey wrote:All I can say is that this kiwi side as proven 3 games on the spin are not the greatest sporting side ever. Marginally the best rugby side s the best tag I can give them..

No disrespect to Ireland. Now come on and finish the job..

On the contrary. This side showed exactly why they are the greatest sporting side. All heart. Never say die. Only champion sides have that.

I dont get it , you'd think that winning games when you;ve struggled to dominate after a long season would be proof of your greatness not the other way round. Marginally the best rugby side ? How many other rugby sides do you know that have gone unbeaten over a season ?

Taylorman wrote:

mystiroakey wrote:All I can say is that this kiwi side as proven 3 games on the spin are not the greatest sporting side ever. Marginally the best rugby side s the best tag I can give them..

No disrespect to Ireland. Now come on and finish the job..

On the contrary. This side showed exactly why they are the greatest sporting side. All heart. Never say die. Only champion sides have that.

So true. The proof is in the fact they went unbeaten this year. Best NZ side ever. And we took em to the very edge. No other side has done that this year. Not even SA in the end.

There's no two ways about it, Sexton choked. Harsh but true. But serious questions need to be asked about the game management in the last ten minutes. Why not catch and drive from a dominant lineout with three minutes to go? Why give away such a stupid penalty with 40 seconds to go? I'm afraid we threw that game away. New Zealand were distinctly average and a distinct second best. Yet they won. That's what Ireland need to aspire too do. If the game had been the other way round New Zealand, Wales, England, France, South Africa or Australia wouldn't have lost. Simply not good enough.

Damn. So close. Commiserations Irish people. Still it's not right to blow up a 19 points lead against whoever you're up against. I hope the coaches and players are angry at that. They need to feed on that to get to the next level.

Bearing in mind all and sundry had written this gam doff as a stroll for the ABs against an injured, aging inconsistent side, i think Ireland have proven what we all know is that when their tails are up and they are regarded as a lost cause, they come out fighting.

NZ should count themselves very lucky.

Have to admit when the ABs started going downfield in the last seconds I had to stop and check my heart pounding it was thumping that much. Felt like I was witnessing a miracle. End of our rugby season so time to take a break. Wales Aus still to come...awesome end to an awesome season. Well done Ireland.

Well, well, well.... what a game to watch... fantastic

Scratch wrote:Bearing in mind all and sundry had written this gam doff as a stroll for the ABs against an injured, aging inconsistent side, i think Ireland have proven what we all know is that when their tails are up and they are regarded as a lost cause, they come out fighting.

NZ should count themselves very lucky.

oh we do. we do. lucky enough to have the only side that can come back from that.very lucky indeed.

It's the next three games that are key for Ireland.

This wasn't atypical of Ireland to pull out a big performance, we need the same against Scotland and Wales

Hook, in your sentence lies the answer dude. Fact is, in that list, only NZ could have finished off  a game like that. Ergo... they stand alone this year. That utter self-belief they have  is an incredible weapon.  

The stuff of  Champions. Ireland are learning under a new regime and they are learning fast.

Im getting pished off  with all this downer stuff. We would gladly  have  given our sad souls for that performance a  few hours ago.   Get a large grip the phookin lot of yiz.

Notch wrote:It's the next three games that are key for Ireland.

This wasn't atypical of Ireland to pull out a big performance, we need the same against Scotland and Wales

our experience notch is when sides put up a performance like that versus the ABs their very next match is usually disappointing for them- in fact usually a loss. Ireland can't make the mistake of thinking they can now foot it with other sides on the basis of this match. Not saying they will but very weirdly, thats what seems to happen. We keep hearing...how can we go that well vs the ABs then this....etc etc. ...Its weird.