Ireland v New Zealand

First topic message reminder :

Right what's done is done regarding Aus. Time to move on and look forward to the ABs. This could be one to watch from behind the couch.

I don't expect any major changes in the team. Murray for Redden being the only obvious change, possibly at tighthead, possibly in the second row. Sexton is doubtful, maybe Earls is available.

My only expectation for this game is for an improved performance as the required level of aggressiveness was just non existent last Saturday. Otherwise we are looking at some hammering.

Without stating the obvious...I would like to see our players try to copy the All Blacks in certain aspects of the game. Namely
1. Passing the ball to another Irish player who is moving forwards and preferably in space
2. When running with the ball try to avoid the opposition players as much as possible instead of seeking out contact.
that is all.

Suas an bothair agus ar aghaidh an tarbh.

Updated with Teams
All Blacks
15 Dagg,14 jane, 13 B Smith, 12 Nonu, 11 Savea, 10 Cruden, 9 A Smith
8 Read, 7 McCaw, 6 Luatua, 5 Whitelock, , 4 Romano, 3 Faumoina, 2 Hore , 1 Crockett

Ireland
R Kearney; T Bowe, B O’Driscoll, G D’Arcy, D Kearney; J Sexton, C Murray; C Healy, R Best, M Ross, D Toner, P O’Connell, P O’Mahony, S O’Brien, J Heaslip.
Replacements: S Cronin, J McGrath, D Fitzpatrick, M McCarthy, K McLaughlin, I Boss, I Madigan, L Fitzgerald.

Biltong wrote:

Golden wrote:

Taylorman wrote:

Golden wrote:We just don't have the fitness levels to beat these teams. I think Schmidt needs to get there to be a shake up in conditioning levels in the provinces

Belief overcame the fitness levels. Sextons missed kick was crucial. Had that gone over it probably would have been it...a try and restart to score too much to beat.

The belief can only take you so far though. The irish players were out on their feet ten minutes into the second half.  Other teams are just fitter I think

Totally agree with that. You could see Ireland was only hanging on the last quarter.

We all agree on that one....well many of us do.  When fitness goes so does the brain power to make the right choices.  Schmidt knows what he has now and what needs serious work.  I'd suggest fitness (full International 80 minute stamina levels) is something major he now has to work on as it's often the difference between Ireland being fully and belligerently dominant (Welsh 6N game - first half) and losing momentum and shape under pressure and fatigue (Welsh 6N game - second half)

But if we address those issues of stamina then we have the equipment to do serious damage to any side.

Well played Ireland. Does show how hard it is to keep the required intensity up against the ABs though

Sorry Gibbo, we've been here before.  England at Croke, Australia in the World Cup, New Zealand in the second test last year.  We learnt no lessons, we didn't move forward.  Those matches were abberations.  There can be no room for backslapping here.  We lost a game from 19 points ahead at home, when we were dominant, against a team running on fumes.  There's no point in shrugging shoulders and saying 'awh shucks, we did well though'.  This is professional sport.  That result is just another failure.  A glorious failure perhaps.  To see the performances of O'Connell, Healy, Best, Cronin, Heaslip and O'Brien was a slight to behold.  But questions need to be asked about the attacking play in the backs (nonexistent); Sexton's temperament on big occasions (choked); Murray's game management under pressure (up until the last ten minutes he was outstanding); POM's rather anonymous game (McLaughlin was excellent when he came on); Toner (improved but technically poor in contact and brainless); conditioning of the players (too many players sucking in air long before the final play).

At least we have a coach that might learn something from that match and take us forward.  A baseline of comparison for future performances have been set.  The players are capable of at least this standard.  We need to do this every match.  Otherwise this match counts for nothing.

But right now this match is a utter failure and a poor one. Only in March 2014 can we really see if it heralds anything further.

Last time I experienced that kind of a finish to a game was Sco v Wal in 2010..... think today caps it though

Can I just say thanks to both teams.

SecretFly wrote:

Biltong wrote:

Golden wrote:

Taylorman wrote:

Golden wrote:We just don't have the fitness levels to beat these teams. I think Schmidt needs to get there to be a shake up in conditioning levels in the provinces

Belief overcame the fitness levels. Sextons missed kick was crucial. Had that gone over it probably would have been it...a try and restart to score too much to beat.

The belief can only take you so far though. The irish players were out on their feet ten minutes into the second half.  Other teams are just fitter I think

Totally agree with that. You could see Ireland was only hanging on the last quarter.

We all agree on that one....well many of us do.  When fitness goes so does the brain power to make the right choices.  Schmidt knows what he has now and what needs serious work.  I'd suggest fitness (full International 80 minute stamina levels) is something major he now has to work on as it's often the difference between Ireland being fully and belligerently dominant (Welsh 6N game - first half) and losing momentum and shape under pressure and fatigue (Welsh 6N game - second half)

But if we address those issues of stamina then we have the equipment to do serious damage to any side.

Still doesnt answer why the ABs are fitter. Do they train harder? Why would Ireland be needing to address stamina issues now?Why havnt they addressed them over the last 10-15 years? Fitness alone does not hold up as an argument. Do in fact NZers know how to get fitter than anyone else? Is that what is being argued here?

Not always true TMan. Wales just missed out on beating New Zealand in their last match in 2004 and then won the Slam in 2005. England beat NZ last year then won their next 4 games.

But I don't fall into the trap of thinking we were a better team now than we were 4 hours ago. We always had the potential to play as well as we did in the first half, we still have the potential to play as badly as we did last week. I just hope we keep developing the squad and put that amount of pride into our performance every test match we play. We won't be far away if we do that.

In the short term this will be a devastating defeat but once the squad is back together in March that will be replaced with the frustration of such a margin loss, should translate to a new belief, they will be looking one another in the eyes knowing what they are capable of after an indifferent year, and that will make them hard to beat come the 6 Nations.

Wonderful game but I think Ireland should be kicking themselves for not winning.

I'm still not ready to process what I saw. What drama.

I'm not convinced that fitness was the issue.

I think it is skill levels. We were having to play full tilt to keep NZ contained. It was effective but did involve us using a lot more energy than NZ.

Fk me that was devastating. I cant quite believe it, great game to watch, must be as close to winning but losing as you could possibly get. If NZ were Wales today id still be jumping up and down with joy marvelling at a great win, but I imagine kiwis are just thinking they didnt play well enough for the start of game.
Massive condolences to the Irish and to NZ well done as usual, last passage of play just shows why u are where u are.

Tried to defend a lead rather then capitalise on it. Classic Ireland unfortunately.

Hookisms and Hyperbole wrote:Sorry Gibbo, we've been here before.  England at Croke, Australia in the World Cup, New Zealand in the second test last year.  We learnt no lessons, we didn't move forward.  Those matches were abberations.  There can be no room for backslapping here.  We lost a game from 19 points ahead at home, when we were dominant, against a team running on fumes.  There's no point in shrugging shoulders and saying 'awh shucks, we did well though'.  This is professional sport.  That result is just another failure.  A glorious failure perhaps.  To see the performances of O'Connell, Healy, Best, Cronin, Heaslip and O'Brien was a slight to behold.  But questions need to be asked about the attacking play in the backs (nonexistent); Sexton's temperament on big occasions (choked); Murray's game management under pressure (up until the last ten minutes he was outstanding); POM's rather anonymous game (McLaughlin was excellent when he came on); Toner (improved but technically poor in contact and brainless); conditioning of the players (too many players sucking in air long before the final play).  

At least we have a coach that might learn something from that match and take us forward.  A baseline of comparison for future performances have been set.  The players are capable of at least this standard.  We need to do this every match.  Otherwise this match counts for nothing.

But right now this match is a utter failure and a poor one.  Only in March 2014 can we really see if it heralds anything further.  

Some people are getting carried away with the performance but you're going too far the other way.I think if Sexton had been fit we'd have won that game,he wasn't as influential as he can be but we don't know where we stand until the 6 Nations,there's no point getting too excited or too deflated yet we just have to wait and see if they can back it up under JS as too often it's been one good performance followed by 5 poor ones.

I'm not going to get too excited or deflated but I will say that we can't go from finishing joint bottom of the 6N and losing by 17 to Oz to beating NZ,if we can win a 6N and get a run of good performances and results then we'll be in a much better place next time we meet them (the World Cup possibly,are we playing them next November?).

Taylorman wrote:

SecretFly wrote:

Biltong wrote:

Golden wrote:

Taylorman wrote:

Golden wrote:We just don't have the fitness levels to beat these teams. I think Schmidt needs to get there to be a shake up in conditioning levels in the provinces

Belief overcame the fitness levels. Sextons missed kick was crucial. Had that gone over it probably would have been it...a try and restart to score too much to beat.

The belief can only take you so far though. The irish players were out on their feet ten minutes into the second half.  Other teams are just fitter I think

Totally agree with that. You could see Ireland was only hanging on the last quarter.

We all agree on that one....well many of us do.  When fitness goes so does the brain power to make the right choices.  Schmidt knows what he has now and what needs serious work.  I'd suggest fitness (full International 80 minute stamina levels) is something major he now has to work on as it's often the difference between Ireland being fully and belligerently dominant (Welsh 6N game - first half) and losing momentum and shape under pressure and fatigue (Welsh 6N game - second half)

But if we address those issues of stamina then we have the equipment to do serious damage to any side.

Still doesnt answer why the ABs are fitter. Do they train harder? Why would Ireland be needing to address stamina issues now?Why havnt they addressed them over the last 10-15 years? Fitness alone does not hold up as an argument. Do in fact NZers know how to get fitter than anyone else? Is that what is being argued here?

Those are questions you must answer Taylorman, not me.  You or some of your countrymen - because facts are facts, our players drained dramatically through the second half, the ABs yet again show that they have Duracell batteries fitted.  Duracell batteries allows the brain to keep involved in the game, allows players to continue playing smart rugby right down to the final whistle of such a game.

Not me saying so - the game and many ABs games show so.  The fitter you are, the more oxygen you are able to ultilise, the fresher your legs obviously remain and, more importantly, the more oxygenated your brain and decision making capacity is to engage those fresher legs meaningfully.

It's science, but not rocket science.  I admire the ABs mainly for that abilty to maintain high levels of concentration and problem solving game after game after game after game.  That has much more to do with fitness than simply innate skills, which they have in abundance too!

Notch wrote:Not always true TMan. Wales just missed out on beating New Zealand in their last match in 2004 and then won the Slam in 2005. England beat NZ last year then won their next 4 games.

But I don't fall into the trap of thinking we were a better team now than we were 4 hours ago. We always had the potential to play as well as we did in the first half, we still have the potential to play as badly as we did last week. I just hope we keep developing the squad and put that amount of pride into our performance every test match we play. We won't be far away if we do that.

2004 is a long time ago. Last year the way England won suggested they should have slayed the 6N sides. Instead they scored one try in the 3 matches before getting pasted by Wales, playing dour rugby. That does not make sense. After last week Ireland should have been beaten easily this week. Instead they played out of their skins because they wanted this much much more. Whether they can draw that same level of passion vs Wales is questionable. You might argue they can but the levels Ive seen sides rise to when comparing the two matches either side of an AB match is just weird.

Taylorman the weather ruined the first few games in the 6nations..

but you could add the Wales win to this Irelands performance against you.. both teams wanted it more

One off games don't tell us a whole lot, Wales looked like world beaters when they dominated England in the last six nations, but they haven't been able to reach those levels since.

Likewise, its down to Ireland to show they can kick on from this near victory and bring that level of intensity into the 6 nations.

If the weather is bad again handling errors will again dominate the 6 nations

mystiroakey wrote:Taylorman the weather ruined the first few games in the 6nations..

but you could add the Wales win to this Irelands performance against you.. both teams wanted it more

Wales regularly beat Eng these days, I was expecting us to win, its not the same as raising ur performance to play NZ.
Maybe the saying 'you can only play whats infront of you' kind of works in reverse when u come up against NZ.

Felt that for 70 minutes, Murray turned in the best scrum-half performance from an Irishman that I've ever seen. Following on from his superb Test with the Lions, he was simply inspirational and, in a position that has historically been a problem for the side, has sufficient ability and time that he may be regarded as Ireland's best ever Number 9 by the time he's done.

It feels heretical to be critical on a day like this, but I still worry about lock. POC is no younger than he was yesterday and while Toner's performance was unquestionably a quantum leap forward from the previous week, I'm not convinced that he has a brain, rugby or otherwise. Fitness may have been a deciding factor in the outcome, but the absence of a cool head to steady people down in the championship minutes undoubtedly was. That's when captains and pack leaders earn their corn; I feel that we missed a steady hand on the tiller at times today to balance the "up there and at 'em" fire and brimstone stuff..

kingjohn7 wrote:

mystiroakey wrote:Taylorman the weather ruined the first few games in the 6nations..

but you could add the Wales win to this Irelands performance against you.. both teams wanted it more

Wales regularly beat Eng these days, I was expecting us to win, its not the same as raising ur performance to play NZ.
Maybe the saying 'you can only play whats infront of you' kind of works in reverse when u come up against NZ.

Thats not true at all mate. Engalnd allways give the SH a game and never ever get dismantled the way wales did to england. Wales game was the most out there result all year

I thought Murray was simply outstanding, but yes the box kick at the end wasn't the right option.

Taylorman wrote:

Notch wrote:Not always true TMan. Wales just missed out on beating New Zealand in their last match in 2004 and then won the Slam in 2005. England beat NZ last year then won their next 4 games.

But I don't fall into the trap of thinking we were a better team now than we were 4 hours ago. We always had the potential to play as well as we did in the first half, we still have the potential to play as badly as we did last week. I just hope we keep developing the squad and put that amount of pride into our performance every test match we play. We won't be far away if we do that.

2004 is a long time ago. Last year the way England won suggested they should have slayed the 6N sides. Instead they scored one try in the 3 matches before getting pasted by Wales, playing dour rugby. That does not make sense. After last week Ireland should have been beaten easily this week. Instead they played out of their skins because they wanted this much much more. Whether they can draw that same level of passion vs Wales is questionable. You might argue they can but the levels Ive seen sides rise to when comparing the two matches either side of an AB match is just weird.

That's not the AB's effect though, that's just rugby and especially NH rugby Tman.

We're all so close that if any of us slip an inch the others can pounce. It's not a New Zealand thing that any one that plays you falls apart afterwards. It's more that we all have a base level of rugby quality and across the season swing above it and below that level. Sometimes we go above that level against NZ, other times we don't. And that's all NH teams not just Ireland.

The strange thing is that even from 22 7 down I still felt nz would win although they weren't playing well.

mckay1402 wrote:The strange thing is that even from 22 7 down I still felt nz would win although they weren't playing well.  

That is not strange- very natural..

I've only just logged on, and I'm not ready to read through all the chat just yet.

Just to say - I never knew you could be so proud and hopeful but so unbelievably soul destroyed at the same time.

But I do feel... at some pioint, when the dust settles we need to question why the players were still taking it to the All Blacks with five minutes left and throwing the ball wide. And Murray kicked possession to them. We almost got away with it, but we were playing with fire. and 30 seconds left of holding onto the ball and we coughed up a penalty (I didn't even catch what it was for).

But I couldn't be more happy with the spirit of the players.

Rory_Gallagher wrote:I thought Murray was simply outstanding, but yes the box kick at the end wasn't the right option.

He was - he was brutally into it.... he was possessed. So sad that it wasn't enough, for any of them as there were quite a number of guys out there who matched him.

But I do honestly sense two things.

Schmidt and his coaches do have the ability to catch that conviction and repeat it - unlike other years when truly we'd all realise that was probably our 'one-off' performance of the year.
The other thing I can sense is that Irish International players have bought into this deal of International again. It might make Provinical suffer as a result but I can sense Irish players want this, they want to see how far this Schmidt show can take them. They're connecting with it emotionally - not simply in that one performance, that you can't really define yet, but in the body language during interviews and the things they say.

mystiroakey wrote:

kingjohn7 wrote:

mystiroakey wrote:Taylorman the weather ruined the first few games in the 6nations..

but you could add the Wales win to this Irelands performance against you.. both teams wanted it more

Wales regularly beat Eng these days, I was expecting us to win, its not the same as raising ur performance to play NZ.
Maybe the saying 'you can only play whats infront of you' kind of works in reverse when u come up against NZ.

Thats not true at all mate. Engalnd allways give the SH a game and never ever get dismantled the way wales did to england. Wales game was the most out there result all year

I dont really want to get into a Wal Eng debate on this thread, but a scorline doesnt always mean that much. Wales had a stormer and Eng had a mare, the scorline margin could have been 10 or 30 points, it didnt really matter too much. Wales winning wasnt that unexpected.
Capt I agree Murray looked good, was really impressed with him on Lions tour he was our best scrum half, especially as I had never thought him that good. Also loved Cian Healy smashing through McCaw.

Oh god,, if i was Irish I think i would have had a break down. Really unlucky guys.
Heaslip, O'Brien, Murray and Healey were amazing; great players.
But there is only one team int he world who could pull that off after being behind by 19 points after 19 minutes, sadly that was the team they were facing.
At least the next six nations will be all for one; i think Ireland, Wales, England and France are all capable of winning with the teams they have. I think Home/Away will have a big factor next year. Looking forward to it already.

Rory_Gallagher wrote:I thought Murray was simply outstanding, but yes the box kick at the end wasn't the right option.

Absolutely gutted for you. Incidentally, you cost us a point in a pub quiz. Question was about Irish lead singer of "Them". After previously googling Rory Gallagher, after your disbelief I'd never heard of him, I confidently proposed his name. Turned out to be the delivery man for Morrisons. If only Northern Ireland had their own team.

Ireland were the better team. I can't imagine too many celebrations. They no Ireland were better. Ireland were better and this will show in the six nations. Beware all.

kingjohn7 wrote:

mystiroakey wrote:

kingjohn7 wrote:

mystiroakey wrote:Taylorman the weather ruined the first few games in the 6nations..

but you could add the Wales win to this Irelands performance against you.. both teams wanted it more

Wales regularly beat Eng these days, I was expecting us to win, its not the same as raising ur performance to play NZ.
Maybe the saying 'you can only play whats infront of you' kind of works in reverse when u come up against NZ.

Thats not true at all mate. Engalnd allways give the SH a game and never ever get dismantled the way wales did to england. Wales game was the most out there result all year

I dont really want to get into a Wal Eng debate on this thread, but a scorline doesnt always mean that much. Wales had a stormer and Eng had a mare, the scorline margin could have been 10 or 30 points, it didnt really matter too much. Wales winning wasnt that unexpected.
Capt I agree Murray looked good, was really impressed with him on Lions tour he was our best scrum half, especially as I had never thought him that good. Also loved Cian Healy smashing through McCaw.

the scoreline was of ultra importance- getting over 15 or so points won you the championship and no team beats england by that many- even the best in the world!!. if you dont want to get involved in a wales v england thing then dont talk about it!

if you think the scorelines dont matter then today wasn't a shock either!! NZ WON!! /heasdsgone

Norfolklass wrote:

Rory_Gallagher wrote:I thought Murray was simply outstanding, but yes the box kick at the end wasn't the right option.

Absolutely gutted for you. Incidentally, you cost us a point in a pub quiz. Question was about Irish lead singer of "Them". After previously googling Rory Gallagher, after your disbelief I'd never heard of him, I confidently proposed his name. Turned out to be the delivery man for Morrisons. If only Northern Ireland had their own team.

Taste - Rory Gallagher

Them - Van Morrison

Both - Legends.

Well done both teams cracking game, when Sexton had that penalty I had a feeling he would miss, I think Sexton is flakey like Priestland for Wales. This game reminds me of Wales v Aus games throwing it away in the last play of the game.

Great performance, should have had the win.

Taylorman wrote:...Last year the way England won suggested they should have slayed the 6N sides. Instead they scored one try in the 3 matches before getting pasted by Wales, playing dour rugby. That does not make sense. After last week Ireland should have been beaten easily this week. Instead they played out of their skins because they wanted this much much more. Whether they can draw that same level of passion vs Wales is questionable. You might argue they can but the levels I've seen sides rise to when comparing the two matches either side of an AB match is just weird.

I don't think sides rise to the All Blacks, quite the opposite. I think many take the field hobbled with doubt and end up playing well below par against them. It's up to every All Black side to ram home that sense of unworthiness by playing with uncompromising precision. And most of them do.

As an Englishman, I've seen Ireland play like that before (they won a string of 7 from 8 up until a couple of years ago) and Wales did that to us only last year. There aren't really any inferiority complexes in matches between the big Northern sides (leaving Italy aside), just a strong desire win and a determination not to be humiliated.

We see peak performances regularly in the Six Nations. Partly because, outside World cup years, that's the time for which our sides aim to peak. When no Southern team could beat England for over three years, we still managed to lose to France, Wales, Ireland and Scotland.

Occasionally, a side gets its act together to do the same against one of the Southern Big 3. It looks like they must have raised their game but, often, it's just bringing a good performance instead of crumbling in a heap, awed by reputation.

This match reminded me of the second Lions Test in 2009. The Lions were all over the Boks, who then came firing back. The Lions proceeded to bash themselves unconscious , and couldn't even hold on for a draw.

Loved watching the game today. Not quite as heartbreaking as if it was my own team, but very close.

"As an Englishman, I've seen Ireland play like that before (they won a string of 7 from 8 up until a couple of years ago) and Wales did that to us only last year. There aren't really any inferiority complexes in matches between the big Northern sides (leaving Italy aside), just a strong desire win and a determination not to be humiliated. "

yeah there intensity was exactly the same as that dublin game a few t years ago and the wales game this year. we couldn't do anything about it , NZ can!

that off course is the differnce

mystiroakey wrote:

kingjohn7 wrote:

mystiroakey wrote:Taylorman the weather ruined the first few games in the 6nations..

but you could add the Wales win to this Irelands performance against you.. both teams wanted it more

Wales regularly beat Eng these days, I was expecting us to win, its not the same as raising ur performance to play NZ.
Maybe the saying 'you can only play whats infront of you' kind of works in reverse when u come up against NZ.

Thats not true at all mate. Engalnd allways give the SH a game and never ever get dismantled the way wales did to england. Wales game was the most out there result all year

yes and no oakey, not as out there as you might think

agree england imploded but all the pressure was on them

england had bought the champions hubris again and talked it up; they have some serious pedigree for stuffing the last game of a 6 nations

wales on the other hand had nothing to lose at home and make massive improvements through the duration of a competition which is why they have such a strong 6 nations record in recent years

To go to Cardiff for a result is a massive ask in the last game

Scratch wrote:

mystiroakey wrote:

kingjohn7 wrote:

mystiroakey wrote:Taylorman the weather ruined the first few games in the 6nations..

but you could add the Wales win to this Irelands performance against you.. both teams wanted it more

Wales regularly beat Eng these days, I was expecting us to win, its not the same as raising ur performance to play NZ.
Maybe the saying 'you can only play whats infront of you' kind of works in reverse when u come up against NZ.

Thats not true at all mate. Engalnd allways give the SH a game and never ever get dismantled the way wales did to england. Wales game was the most out there result all year

yes and no oakey, not as out there as you might think

agree england imploded but all the pressure was on them

england had bought the champions hubris again and talked it up; they have some serious pedigree for stuffing the last game of a 6 nations

wales on the other hand had nothing to lose at home and make massive improvements through the duration of a  competition which is why they have such a strong 6 nations record  in recent years

To go to Cardiff for a result is a massive ask in the last game

i dont think we imploded- i think you just started with intensity(like ireland shown today) that just blew us away. something that you just cant do week in week out and we never got back into it

RugbyFan182 wrote:Ireland were the better team. I can't imagine too many celebrations. They no Ireland were better. Ireland were better and this will show in the six nations. Beware all.

I don't think we've ever put three performances like that together on the trot. It's up to Schmidt to change that. If he does we'll succeed were in the past we have failed.

Big job though, because its at least partly/mainly psychological.

That's just shows true potential...we were great I'm so proud of my country regardless of the result...

Encouraging performance. Much better balance between brutality and skill. Although I'd like to see more ambition in attack. We didn't actually score in the 2nd half did we? And one more score would have finished it. Hope Best is ok. But I liked the way Cronin slipped in and played well. We shouldn't be overly dependent on certain players. It's a squad game.

I think we'll see more gradual improvement from Ireland in the 6 Nations as Shmidt has more time with the players. But going away to France and England will be tough. What I'd like more than anything is to see consistently good performances. Not just out of the blue ones. That's what Schmidt has to figure out.

Well done to New Zealand for winning every game for a year. Battered in the first half and never stopped fighting. Brilliant. I've been watching Ireland for about ten years now and this is they've taken New Zealand to the wire about three times or so. It'll happen some day.

mystiroakey wrote:the scoreline was of ultra importance- getting over 15 or so points won you the championship and no team beats england by that many- even the best in the world!!. if you dont want to get involved in a wales v england thing then dont talk about it!

if you think the scorelines dont matter then today wasn't a shock either!! NZ WON!!  /heasdsgone

Eng have been beaten by 30+ point many times over last 10 years, its not that uncommon. I never said scorlines dont matter, just dont always show everything. Im not sure what ur last sentence means but I never said anything about being shocked at the result, but most would have been by the performance having watched Ire last wk.
Anyway wasnt trying to start an argument, just disagreeing with ur point about being more up for the game vs NZ/Eng.
Have a good one all, im gonna try and route out a   or 3

Rory_Gallagher wrote:

Norfolklass wrote:

Rory_Gallagher wrote:I thought Murray was simply outstanding, but yes the box kick at the end wasn't the right option.

Absolutely gutted for you. Incidentally, you cost us a point in a pub quiz. Question was about Irish lead singer of "Them". After previously googling Rory Gallagher, after your disbelief I'd never heard of him, I confidently proposed his name. Turned out to be the delivery man for Morrisons. If only Northern Ireland had their own team.

Taste - Rory Gallagher

Them - Van Morrison

Both - Legends.

Respect X

RDSguru wrote:Last time I experienced that kind of a finish to a game was Sco v Wal in 2010..... think today caps it though

Can I just say thanks to both teams.

Sorry Gib, I was at Cardiff that day and I don't think anything will ever cap it. However, the Celts should have seen the game out and can rightly feel cheated. Although cheated by the uncaring gods or by those devils in black I'm not sure about.

kingjohn7 wrote:

mystiroakey wrote:the scoreline was of ultra importance- getting over 15 or so points won you the championship and no team beats england by that many- even the best in the world!!. if you dont want to get involved in a wales v england thing then dont talk about it!

if you think the scorelines dont matter then today wasn't a shock either!! NZ WON!!  /heasdsgone

Eng have been beaten by 30+ point many times over last 10 years, its not that uncommon. I never said scorlines dont matter, just dont always show everything. Im not sure what ur last sentence means but I never said anything about being shocked at the result, but most would have been by the performance having watched Ire last wk.

Not really mate you could easily filp the logic to

- NZ only just got over the line against england and france. Ireland pushed them close last year in NZ

however under SL the only team to dominate england and beat them big is wales.

Gutted for Ireland, was cheering you all the way. Literally only metres in it with Sexton's kick, and on such fine margins such epic contests are decided.

Wonderful match, and probably ought to tip my cap to the ABs as well. Awesome competitors, and Cruden was unbelievably good. Dan who?!

SecretFly wrote:

Rory_Gallagher wrote:I thought Murray was simply outstanding, but yes the box kick at the end wasn't the right option.

He was - he was brutally into it.... he was possessed.  So sad that it wasn't enough, for any of them as there were quite a number of guys out there who matched him.  

But I do honestly sense two things.  

Schmidt and his coaches do have the ability to catch that conviction and repeat it - unlike other years when truly we'd all realise that was probably our 'one-off' performance of the year.  
The other thing I can sense is that Irish International players have bought into this deal of International again.  It might make Provinical suffer as a result but I can sense Irish players want this, they want to see how far this Schmidt show can take them.  They're connecting with it emotionally - not simply in that one performance, that you can't really define yet, but in the body language during interviews and the things they say.

You mean Leinster players (it was mostly Leinster) are only buying into it now  
 

Haven't seen the tape yet…how did BOD do?

A quick word on Nigel Owens - on current form, the pre-eminent referee in international rugby. Control with a human face, applies the laws well, while never seeming to be hidebound by them, and clearly enjoys the respect of the players. He handled both the SA-NZ game in Jo'burg and today's encounter and I don't think that it's a coincidence that they were arguably the two standout matches of the year.

Sin é wrote:
You mean Leinster players (it was mostly Leinster) are only buying into it now  
 

Em, well, Schmidt  did only arrive a few weeks ago  They're both late maybe  ... but let's do this next few years together, sin. The Tiger is about to roar again...... well, after the massive defeat to Scotland next February!.