Ireland World cup bid.

by Kingshu Mon 18 Nov 2013, 12:27 pm

First topic message reminder :

Don't know if this has come up before, but its the first I'm learning that Ireland are bidding for the 2023 World cup

http://www.irishtimes.com/sport/rugby/government-to-consider-rugby-world-cup-bid-1.1598136

I do like that it says
The next finals will take place in England in 2015 and the one after that will be held in Japan in 2019. and he says "“It is the northern hemisphere’s turn in 2023"

Japan moved to the southern Hemp?

World cups are getting bigger and bigger events. NZ held the last one and it was though that it would prob be to big an event in the future for them to be able to host, by 2023 would it maybe be to big for Ireland?

I'd love Ireland to win it, but for the sake of rugby the US-Canada joint bid may be the better one. After hosting USA 94, nearly 20 years ago football has grown there and I think the 3rd most popular sport in the US, (there was a lot of work done after the WC to grow this). Could rugby grow as something similar if hosting the 2023 comp?

Then again Japan are hosting it in 2019 to grow the sport there and maybe it should return to an established Nation like Ireland, can't always select countries to grow the game and not play it in Countries that already love the game?

The big bit for hosting it is the decision of the GAA at its last congress to make its grounds available for the rugby world cup has given a huge boost to the bid.

Final in Croke Park, Casement Park in Belfast will be a 40,000 all seater stadium by then.

With the GAA on board there are plenty of suitable stadiums available, think Ireland could host a very successful World cup, and it would be a real boost for Rugby here.

by Bathman_in_London Wed 20 Nov 2013, 10:06 am

I certainly wouldn't be against an Irish WC, but it would have to be just held in Ireland, none of this ridiculous Welsh blackmail of only voting for a tournament if they get some fixtures. By 2015 there will have been 4 tournaments with games on these small islands and frankly another road-show style tournament would be a turn off for me.

As Japan will be seen as bit of a risk, I wouldn't bet against SA getting the tournament. They have the stadia, a large population and are a similar timezone to Europe for tv viewing. It might be seen as a safe bet and a guaranteed money spinner for the IRB.

Personally, if it is to be a European tournament, I would like it to be in Italy, they have never hosted WC games, have pretty decent stadia (I would hope 10 years would be enough time to upgrade where needed) and the proximity to France/Uk/Ireland should guarantee a lot of travelling support to boost attendances. This might make Italy a good halfway house between a new venue and guaranteed attendances/revenue.

Also, from a selfish point of view, if in 10 years time I were to say to the missus 'I've booked us a surprise trip to Milan, there will be a rugby game involved though...' would go down a lot better than if I replaced the word Milan with Belfast! (Mind you in that case I could probably get away with a lads trip which might be more fun!).

by **rodders** Wed 20 Nov 2013, 10:07 am

Brilliant!

by Sin é Thu 19 Dec 2013, 3:57 pm

geoff998rugby wrote:Ireland issue is a number of the big GAA stadiums are in locations where accomodation numbers are very limited.

Also reference to stadia yet to be built.
Casement Park for example - I think it is still very debateable if this will every be completed.

New Casement Park given go-ahead
Thursday, December 19, 2013 - 12:16 PM

Planning permission has been granted for the Casement Park redevelopment project which will see a 5,500 increase in capacity at the Belfast venue to bring it to a 38,000 all-seater stadium, which will be the flagship venue for Ulster GAA fixtures.

http://www.irishexaminer.com/breakingnews/sport/new-casement-park-given-go-ahead-617640.html

Looks like its going to be a smashing stadium. Watcch video
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eRSwZXUpiXE&feature=player_embedded

by GunsGerms Thu 19 Dec 2013, 4:10 pm

Jeez. The GAA is some organisation. They arent even paying for it are they?

by GunsGerms Thu 19 Dec 2013, 4:12 pm

It could also mean that Ulster could potentially play Rabo finals in Belfast rather than away?

by marty2086 Thu 19 Dec 2013, 4:21 pm

GunsGerms wrote:Jeez. The GAA is some organisation. They arent even paying for it are they?

Ravenhill and Windsor are all part of the same package, all 3 funded by the Executive

by GunsGerms Thu 19 Dec 2013, 4:43 pm

marty2086 wrote:
GunsGerms wrote:Jeez. The GAA is some organisation. They arent even paying for it are they?

Ravenhill and Windsor are all part of the same package, all 3 funded by the Executive

Nice. Fully funded by the executive or is the also GAA. IFA and IRFU involved?

by marty2086 Thu 19 Dec 2013, 5:05 pm

GunsGerms wrote:
marty2086 wrote:
GunsGerms wrote:Jeez. The GAA is some organisation. They arent even paying for it are they?

Ravenhill and Windsor are all part of the same package, all 3 funded by the Executive

Nice. Fully funded by the executive or is the also GAA. IFA and IRFU involved?

Stormont set aside funding for all 3 stadia to be redeveloped and modernised

Ravenhill is obviously is almost there, Casement has been finalised and announced today and Windsors been delayed because of problems with the IFA

by GunsGerms Thu 19 Dec 2013, 5:08 pm

Thanks Marty. Some pretty cool developments there. Some excellent sporting infrastructure in NI now:

Incredible courses: Royal county Down, Portrush etc.
Odessy arena
Ravenhill
Casement park etc.

by brennomac Thu 19 Dec 2013, 8:35 pm

Sin é wrote:
geoff998rugby wrote:Ireland issue is a number of the big GAA stadiums are in locations where accomodation numbers are very limited.

Also reference to stadia yet to be built.
Casement Park for example - I think it is still very debateable if this will every be completed.

New Casement Park given go-ahead
Thursday, December 19, 2013 - 12:16 PM

Planning permission has been granted for the Casement Park redevelopment project which will see a 5,500 increase in capacity at the Belfast venue to bring it to a 38,000 all-seater stadium, which will be the flagship venue for Ulster GAA fixtures.

http://www.irishexaminer.com/breakingnews/sport/new-casement-park-given-go-ahead-617640.html

Geoff - I don't know where you get the idea that lots of the GAA stadiums are in locations where there are few hotel rooms.

Killarney - tourist capital of the south-west - loads of hotel rooms
Kilkenny - tourist capital of south-east - loads of hotel rooms as long as English hen parties ain't in town
Galway - same as above
Cork - same as above
Belfast - ditto

I'll grant you that Thurles isn't a tourist hotspot - but's it's less than an hour from Limerick.

Message guys - whatever problems Ireland might have for a WC, hotel rooms aren't going to be on of them

Looks like its going to be a smashing stadium. Watcch video
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eRSwZXUpiXE&feature=player_embedded

by **Notch** Thu 19 Dec 2013, 8:37 pm

GunsGerms wrote:
marty2086 wrote:
GunsGerms wrote:Jeez. The GAA is some organisation. They arent even paying for it are they?

Ravenhill and Windsor are all part of the same package, all 3 funded by the Executive

Nice. Fully funded by the executive or is the also GAA. IFA and IRFU involved?

No, it's public money that would have been used to build a new stadium near Lisburn. Instead they are upgrading the three we have. Think that is much better than a white elephant multi-sports stadium no-one really wants to be honest.

by Thomond Thu 19 Dec 2013, 8:43 pm

People realise that in other countries/stats tax payers pay for stadiums? Imagine if that happened here?!

A world cup won't make much money at all, but it would be great to see here. We can't have the final in Lansdowne though, has to be in Croker. A semi in Cork if we build the Pairc up to 60k and the semi in Lansdowne. Quarters in Casement maybe Pearse Stadium, Thomond Park and Croker.

by **Notch** Thu 19 Dec 2013, 8:45 pm

Thomond Park isn't big enough for a semi-final unfortunately. It'll probably be in Cardiff Rolling Eyes

by Thomond Thu 19 Dec 2013, 8:48 pm

Thomond for the Quarters I said. Is that stupid rule still in place? Can't believe some idiot in the IRB let that one pass.

by **Notch** Thu 19 Dec 2013, 8:57 pm

Sorry, I mistyped. Meant to say;

Thomond Park isn't big enough for a quarter-final unfortunately.

by Sin é Thu 19 Dec 2013, 9:05 pm

GAA Central Council is providing £15M.

Project description

19th December 2013: Tenders have been evaluated and internal processes are continuing towards the award of the contract for the Ulster Council GAA to redevelop Casement Park to provide a 38,000 seated capacity GAA Stadium. Main construction works are due to start on site in January 2014. The cost of the works is put in the region of £80 million - £65 million is Government funded, while the remaining £15 million is being funded privately.

http://www.cisireland.com/projectdescription.aspx?id=1211

by Thomond Thu 19 Dec 2013, 9:07 pm

I can't see Ireland getting much more then 25-30k for some of the neutral quarters, the rugby population is not in the country to support it at the moment.

by GloriousEmpire Thu 19 Dec 2013, 9:24 pm

thebandwagonsociety wrote:
fa0019 wrote:
wolfball wrote:Had a quick look at the capacities of New Zealand, England and Ireland's top 8 stadia (listed for the RWC), and pleasantly surprised that we are closer to England then New Zealand. The big element is getting enough seating versus standing "seats". Maybe I was wrong, that might be a possibility after all....

But isn't the point that most of those capacities are standing?

Only 3 stadiums show as having capacity above 30,000. You can't have a RWC in the modern era in standing stadiums.

Or is the wiki information incorrect... I would have no idea to be honest.
I'd love to be standing on a proper terrace of supporters for RWC game, the atmosphere would be brilliant.

Nice one - someone better tell the WRU that the millennium stadium is now English...

"Manchester" never heard of that one...would that be the unavailable old Trafford?

The MS wasn't full for the Australia v Wales show down. Doesn't matter how big tour stadiums are if you can't fill them. And the cost of accommodation in Britain is likely to keep tourist numbers thin.

Most bar staff will be Romanian or Bulgarian by the time the RWC kicks off.

Problem with England is that most stadiums are for football, so they're too narrow and too short. Look at the fiasco of the rugby league World Cup.

by GunsGerms Fri 20 Dec 2013, 9:57 am

Pretty excited about this now. Ireland are going to put forward a really strong bid by the looks of things.

by beshocked Fri 20 Dec 2013, 9:58 am

bathman in london unfortunately Wales' blackmail works so effectively because their vote is so important. It was a farce when France the hosts of the 2007 world cup had to play a quarter final match at Millennium Stadium. At least the French had the last laugh by beating the ABs there.

If England and France who are both two of the richest rugby unions had to get support from Wales, I cannot see Ireland winning without Wales support either.

Gloriousempire you underestimate how many foreigners there are in London - RWC shouldn't have difficulty. Rugby Union is a lot more popular than rugby league, more competitive teams too.

Sorry Ireland but I think it's South Africa vs Italy for the 2023 RWC with South Africa as favourites.

by GunsGerms Fri 20 Dec 2013, 10:15 am

Explain how SA and Italy have more promissing bids? Dont underestimate the power of the IRFU and the amount of favours they are owed by other unions.

by GunsGerms Fri 20 Dec 2013, 10:18 am

Can we finally put to bed the notion that somehow SA is a cash cow for the IRB. The IRB keeps sponsorship revenue the home union keeps gate receipts. I fail to see how a WC in Ireland would attract less sponsorship than SA.

For example Ireland attracted 8 million tourists this year. SA on average per anumn attracts the same numbers.

I have yet to hear one plausable reason why SA is a "cash cow" compared to Ireland.

by beshocked Fri 20 Dec 2013, 10:25 am

Both have more stadia than Ireland. Both are more desirable locations to go to for away fans.

I would simply say South Africa is the choice if the IRB want another cash cow like France 2007 was and how they expect England 2015 to be. The South Africans obviously are very passionate followers of rugby, far more so than the Irish in general. You would expect the local support to be great. I haven't been to South Africa but I have heard great things about it from people who've been. Away fans would undoubtedly love it.

Italy if they want to be a bit more ambitious but still give it to one the exclusive international top tier club. Italy is a bit more of a gamble than South Africa would be but still has large stadiums it can use. Italy is also a lovely country is excellent food and wine. There would be 10 years to generate more interest of rugby union.

Bathman in London sums it up nicer than me anyway.

Also personally as a rugby fan I would much rather go to a RWC in South Africa or Italy than Ireland too.

by **rodders** Fri 20 Dec 2013, 10:32 am

If we promise not to hold any games in Connacht would that change your view a little Beshocked.... Smile

by GunsGerms Fri 20 Dec 2013, 10:36 am

beshocked wrote:Both have more stadia than Ireland. Both are more desirable locations to go to for away fans.

I would simply say South Africa is the choice if the IRB want another cash cow like France 2007 was and how they expect England 2015 to be. The South Africans obviously are very passionate followers of rugby, far more so than the Irish in general. You would expect the local support to be great. I haven't been to South Africa but I have heard great things about it from people who've been. Away fans would undoubtedly love it.

Italy if they want to be a bit more ambitious but still give it to one the exclusive international top tier club. Italy is a bit more of a gamble than South Africa would be but still has large stadiums it can use. Italy is also a lovely country is excellent food and wine. There would be 10 years to generate more interest of rugby union.

Bathman in London sums it up nicer than me anyway.

Also personally as a rugby fan I would much rather go to a RWC in South Africa or Italy than Ireland too.

Please explain how SA is a cash cow for the IRB? This is actually nonsense. As explained already the IRB only keeps sponsorship revenue so if anything due to the amount of the top 100 largest companies in the world with their EU headquarters in Ireland and its proximity to huge markets, the UK and Europe and even the US sponsorship will not be an issue.

It doesnt matter that Ireland has less stadia than SA or Italy. All that matters is that we have exactly the right amount.

It also doesnt matter that you would prefer to go to SA or Italy in a debate over which is the better proposal. The fact is Ireland's bid will be very strong and toursim figures show that for a country considerably smaller Ireland is able to attract similar tourism figures than SA proves that not everyone would agree with you.

by beshocked Fri 20 Dec 2013, 10:58 am

rodders surely the Connacht stadium is too small anyway?

Gunsgerms when I think about picking a world cup venue I don't just look at sponsorship revenue. I look at the overall package!

You talk about the right amount of stadiums. You can have the right of stadiums but it's about the infrastructure, the culture and being able to accommodate a large amount of travelling away fans.

SA are much more interested in rugby union than the irish. You would expect stronger home support. You and many Irish have constantly said how poorly supported Irish rugby is compared to the likes of Gaelic football and football.

You are right as a personal individual it doesn't matter whether I would prefer to go to Italy or SA because I am just one person and cannot influence the voting process but I am one rugby fan who would much prefer to go to Italy or South Africa for a RWC.

Plus one of the most important things is how everyone votes.

I can see England for example backing Italy or South Africa. NZ and Australia would likely back South Africa no? Wales go to the country who gives them the biggest bribe.

France - I couldn't see them backing Ireland. Scotland - could support Ireland.

by No 7&1/2 Fri 20 Dec 2013, 11:01 am

If you discount Ireland for lack of support to rugby then surely you should use the same reason to discount Italy?

by Cyril Fri 20 Dec 2013, 11:01 am

SA or Italy for me please.

Ireland is too close to home and basically like having it England, Wales or Scotland for it to be that exciting for me.

I want somewhere a bit different so there's a more 'exotic' vibe going on.

Italy and SA are both very interesting options in different ways.

by GunsGerms Fri 20 Dec 2013, 11:10 am

Sponsorship is a reference to you claiming SA would be a cash cow for the IRB. I have yet to read any logical reason why that would be the case.

Infrastructure is proven to be there. Portrush a fairly rural part of Ireland accomodated over 100k people over a weekend for the Irish open. The ryder cup in Kildare accomodated simialr numbers. Its a myth that infrastructure isnt there and the Irish bid will prove that.

Culture is if anything a massive draw for Ireland as already mentioned Ireland attracts massive tourism for a nation of its size and it punches way above its weight. It attracted more tourism this year than Australia for example.

There is no doubt that the Irish people would embrace the RWC and be excellent hosts regardless of whether GAA is more popular.

Ireland has more allies than SA being part of the six nations and you underestimate how close the IRFU and RFU are. It would suit England to have the world cup so close to home. Again there is no reason why the FRU wouldnt want to back Ireland. There is much more to gain from backing Ireland than not.

by GloriousEmpire Fri 20 Dec 2013, 11:36 am

beshocked wrote:bathman in london unfortunately Wales' blackmail works so effectively because their vote is so important. It was a farce when France the hosts of the 2007 world cup had to play a quarter final match at Millennium Stadium. At least the French had the last laugh by beating the ABs there.

If England and France who are both two of the richest rugby unions had to get support from Wales, I cannot see Ireland winning without Wales support either.

Gloriousempire you underestimate how many foreigners there are in London - RWC shouldn't have difficulty. Rugby Union is a lot more popular than rugby league, more competitive teams too.

Sorry Ireland but I think it's South Africa vs Italy for the 2023 RWC with South Africa as favourites.

The fiasco I refer to is that the pitches were too short, leading to serious complaints and injuries to NZ and Australian players in both semi finals and finals. Soccer pitches are just not designed for rugby matches.

Also, still interested that the Millennium stadium is in England according to that host nation stadium capacity table.

And I'm well aware of how many foreigners there are in London.

by No 7&1/2 Fri 20 Dec 2013, 11:38 am

Because the table refers to the stadiums used/to be used by that bid.

by GunsGerms Fri 20 Dec 2013, 11:48 am

All Ireland's proposed stadia have very big pitches as they are rugby or GAA pitches.

by **profitius** Fri 20 Dec 2013, 12:08 pm

I'm getting an 'anywhere but Ireland' vibe off this thread. guinness

by LeinsterFan4life Fri 20 Dec 2013, 1:11 pm

beshocked wrote:rodders surely the Connacht stadium is too small anyway?

Gunsgerms when I think about picking a world cup venue I don't just look at sponsorship revenue. I look at the overall package!

You talk about the right amount of stadiums. You can have the right of stadiums but it's about the infrastructure, the culture and being able to accommodate a large amount of travelling away fans.

SA are much more interested in rugby union than the irish. You would expect stronger home support. You and many Irish have constantly said how poorly supported Irish rugby is compared to the likes of Gaelic football and football.

You are right as a personal individual it doesn't matter whether I would prefer to go to Italy or SA because I am just one person and cannot influence the voting process but I am one rugby fan who would much prefer to go to Italy or South Africa for a RWC.

Plus one of the most important things is how everyone votes.

I can see England for example backing Italy or South Africa. NZ and Australia would likely back South Africa no? Wales go to the country who gives them the biggest bribe.

France - I couldn't see them backing Ireland. Scotland - could support Ireland.

There are other much bigger GAA stadiums in Connacht I'm afraid to say Beshocked.

Rugby is not as big as the GAA for sure but that doesn't mean it isn't huge over here and getting bigger all the time. Ireland could sell the Aviva stadium 2-3 times over for 6 nations games.

by Sin é Fri 20 Dec 2013, 3:45 pm

The Roar has Ireland as favourites to get it. Comments from the bottom of the article that it will be the 'fun' world cup. What Ireland has going for it is that it is small to get around. i.e., you could be staying in Dublin and easily do a day trip to Belfast, Cork, Limerick or Galway (2-3 hours).

Beshocked - Ireland hosted the first Special Olympics outside the US ten years ago and it was a great success. Something like 7,000 athletes who all stayed around the country with 30K volunteers to look after them.

It was a fantastic event.

by **rodders** Fri 20 Dec 2013, 4:12 pm

profitius wrote:I'm getting an 'anywhere but Ireland' vibe off this thread.

That would get my vote anyways. Down with this sort of thing. The cows and leprechauns would be tortured with all the traffic.

by Mad for Chelsea Fri 20 Dec 2013, 4:39 pm

A World Cup in Ireland would be brilliant. I mean, let's face it, no one knows how to party quite like the Irish do Very Happy

Whether it would be the best place from the IRB's viewpoint is quite another matter, but from a fan's viewpoint there surely can't be (m)any better places.

by GunsGerms Thu 06 Feb 2014, 10:50 am

It will be interesting to see how the scheduled Garth Brooks concerts go this summer. He is scheduled for 5 concerts and is set to sell 400,000 tickets.

Has the world gone mad? That is an unbelievable amouns of tickets for any set of concerts and approx 1/8 of the population of Ireland. Incredible!!!

If Garth can attract that many people to Croke park I dont see why Ireland cant stage a RWC.

by Cyril Thu 06 Feb 2014, 10:52 am

Garth Brooks is more popular in Ireland than rugby. Interesting.

by GunsGerms Thu 06 Feb 2014, 10:55 am

Cyril wrote:Garth Brooks is more popular in Ireland than rugby. Interesting.

I imagine that half of those tickets were bought by people from the Uk the US and Europe. He has sold the second most records in US history behind Elvis. This is his comeback tour, the place will be hopping with yanks...

...but yes he is incredibly popular in Ireland.

by doctor_grey Thu 06 Feb 2014, 11:06 am

When I was in Ireland back in January, some people told me that Garth Brooks was very popular in Ireland, which I had never heard before. Are these some form of 'coming out of retirement' concerts? One of the New Yorkers with me thought it funny saying he thought Brooks would probably never sell 25% as many tickets in NYC. Brooks is a country music singer, right? I don't think I know any of his music. I mentioned his name to my kids and my 13 year old never heard of him. Yet one of my neighbors said she thought he is terrific. Weird, eh?

by doctor_grey Thu 06 Feb 2014, 11:09 am

Guns, sorry just saw you post after writing mine. Second most after Elvis? Wow.
I suppose I need to get out more (shock there,eh?). Only music I know is good old rock and whatever my kids are listening to (Taylor effing Swift......aaaaargh).

by **rodders** Thu 06 Feb 2014, 11:13 am

Cyril wrote:Garth Brooks is more popular in Ireland than rugby. Interesting.

He's got friends in low places.

by Cyril Thu 06 Feb 2014, 11:14 am

rodders wrote:
Cyril wrote:Garth Brooks is more popular in Ireland than rugby. Interesting.

He's got friends in low places.

I bet that's a lyric from the man himself. I bet it is.

...checks...

Yup. laughing

by SecretFly Thu 06 Feb 2014, 11:20 am

Ireland World Cup Bid?

Yes, of course. We do intend to win the next World Cup. But first we have to make people think we're still crap - so onwards to the Wales game for a first test on the plan.

by GunsGerms Thu 06 Feb 2014, 11:23 am

Cyril wrote:
rodders wrote:
Cyril wrote:Garth Brooks is more popular in Ireland than rugby. Interesting.

He's got friends in low places.
I bet that's a lyric from the man himself. I bet it is.

...checks...

Yup.

Its a good song. Yeeha!!

by SecretFly Thu 06 Feb 2014, 11:24 am

Come on guys...some of you are showing your age.... or your closeted esoteric musical tastes. Garth Brooks (not my thing) was absolutely QUGE!!!!!!!!!!!!!! And GB knew all about him - plus the BEEB plus the Planet Krypton, where he was regarded as almost a 'plump' one of their own with his style in outfits.

by GunsGerms Thu 06 Feb 2014, 11:24 am

doctor_grey wrote:Guns, sorry just saw you post after writing mine. Second most after Elvis? Wow.
I suppose I need to get out more (shock there,eh?). Only music I know is good old rock and whatever my kids are listening to (Taylor effing Swift......aaaaargh).

Im not really fan but I can see why people like him. I kinda like country music too to be honest but I am more a rock fan. I am going to go see Kings of Leon around the same time instead.

by brennomac Thu 06 Feb 2014, 11:46 am

Personally can't fathom the Irish gra for Garth Brooks, saw him on a corporate jolly indoors in the RDS about 20 years ago (one of eight gigs he did in Dublin!) and he didn't do it for me. Like some country music - Emmylou etc - but Brooks a bit sickly-sweet for an ageing old rocker like me.
Irish are of course big on outdoor gigs - look at our love affair with the Boss - played three gigs last year in Ireland - nearly as many as he played in all of England. Betcha with a new album to sell we'll see him again soon.

by marty2086 Thu 06 Feb 2014, 11:59 am

brennomac wrote:Personally can't fathom the Irish gra for Garth Brooks, saw him on a corporate jolly indoors in the RDS about 20 years ago (one of eight gigs he did in Dublin!) and he didn't do it for me. Like some country music - Emmylou etc - but Brooks a bit sickly-sweet for an ageing old rocker like me.
Irish are of course big on outdoor gigs - look at our love affair with the Boss - played three gigs last year in Ireland - nearly as many as he played in all of England. Betcha with a new album to sell we'll see him again soon.

From your keyboard to the Bosses ears Very Happy

The RLWC last year in England(and Wales) and next years RWC will play a part in the decision. USA v Cook Islands in Bristol brought in over 7'000 and rugby is a growing sport on the island with 9 years to build its profile and support further. A few Grand Slams between now and then and maybe a World Cup success Fingers Crossed

would help make it a big event

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