Glasgow Warriors v Newport Gwent Dragons 1935 hrs 22 Nov 2013 Scotstoun Stadium, Glasgow

First topic message reminder :

Weary of the depression that international rugby afflicts on me I thought I would beat GC to it and start this.

Warriors :


15 Hogg
14 Barry
13 DTH
12 Russell
11 Niko
10 Wight
09 Henners

1 Shrek
2 Hall
3 Kalman
4 Ryder
5 Kellock
6 Harley
7 Fozzy
8 Vernon

16 Hunter
17 Brown
18 Angela
19 Big Naka
20 Bluto
21 Jedi
22 Steele
23 [tbc]

Bedford, I used to be of the same mind as you: get in some gnarly Russians, Romanians, Georgians - tough guys from the eastern bloc. But I've come to realise that just because they're from tough places doesn't make them tough! Playing in teams and leagues well below the standard of the Pro 12 probably means that they'll be of a pretty poor standard themselves. If they're any good then they'll command a top salary and will have been snapped up by the top sides with the rich owners, which is the situation we already have at the Dragons (I.e. We can't afford them).

I seem to remember us playing Russia down at the Dragons last year in a pre season friendly and we put 50 on them and demolished their scrum. If that's the best their props can offer, losing to our shambles of a front row, then I don't want their props thank you!!!

Just to add: the premise is right. It seems logical that these countries will produce gnarled, hard as nails scrummagers. But in reality with the amount of funding, expertise and resources we put into academy structures in Wales, we should be able to produce even better scrummagers ourselves.

Very pleased and surprised with this result.With our scrum we should be much lower in the League.I can only assume that Glasgow had a mare.
Surprised by the "dirty" comment as it is not our style.With our lack of coverage I would not expect to see any footage.
Pretty sure that Glasgow will get back on track pretty soon as they are a good side.

Hogg needs to go and play with Hawick or Ayr or Stirling as he looked rusty and basically rubbish last night. Unfortunately he was not alone. Enough is enough with Scott Wight. His confidence is totally shot. Did not get taking Pyrgos off ! Matawalu needs to start engaging his brain when he plays. I would say Finn Russell and DTH did ok with Reid, Kalman, Welsh, Strauss and Big Naka. The rest very poor indeed. Harley got a sore one by that dirty tw*t in the first minute - he needs a good citing as that was more than a yellow.

Well, that is one cold, wet reality check. If the Ladyboys and Hairsprays win their game in hand we drop down to fifth. On the plus side our next four games are; away to Hairsprays, home to Treviso and then the annual two part slaughter of the effeminate (who were embarrassing last night). The trip to Swansea is the key for me. Win there and we're still well in the play-off places - lose and then we're under pressure not to drop points over December. How many of the internationals will be available for our trip to Swansea?
Off message time brothers. After a brilliant day with the Vets last week (see My Match thread) it's back to second team action today. Bigson will definitely not be playing nor will Joel the introverted captain. This means I may just end up in the second row. Can I shoot up 9 inches and gain three stone before 2:30? Then again I could find myself playing wing. So I'm either an undernourished fat boy or a pedestrian back. I haven't been able to get enthusiastic about this match all week, got a feeling it'll be a nothing day and we'll come second. Why do we do this?

I said earlier in the season that we haven't played well this season, and because of our defence and luck we have ground out some victories. We are shadow of the team we were at the end of last season

While you're saying to look east for props being flawed, what about Romania for players?

Just beat Canada, ranked 16th in the world, ahead of USA, Georgia and Russia. You don't get that high a ranking without having a number of decent players.
Horaţiu Pungea plays for Scarlets Is the only one in the Pro 12.

However I don't think București Wolves have ever achieved much.

All I'm saying, Kingshu, is that on paper Eastern bloc players would seem to be a an ideal choice because they live tough, brutal lives, compared to our pampered players. But in reality, we've probably got just as good if not better at home in terms of scrummaging due to the resources pumped into the game at youth level. And if they are any good out East then they'll be snapped up by the French before us I should imagine! "Come and swap your poor, industrial, declining town for Newport (a poor, industrial town in decline)!"

Romania, Georgia or even Italia in their semi pro league are the place to look for props, for exemple Staibano (11 caps for Italia) who previously played for Castres, Wasps and Aironi currently plays for Petrarca.

Very surpised by this results but with 3 yellow cards i suggest Dragons were very up for it, not surprising after their 3-60 loss last year.

Griff wrote:Just to add: the premise is right. It seems logical that these countries will produce gnarled, hard as nails scrummagers. But in reality  with the amount of funding, expertise and resources we put into academy structures in Wales, we should be able to produce even better scrummagers ourselves.

Griff,

I agree with that assessment as well, I find it hard to believe in an area (before Regions) that was known for its scrummaging that we can't find some better standard props than what we have.

Last nights result was a great result but whilst we continue to struggle at scrum time we will always struggle in to get front foot ball.

Great away win for the Dregs. Haven't seen it, but happy none-the-less! Sounds like Tovey played well again. Yet another reason to show why he should be ahead of Patchell in the fly-half pecking order.

cakeordeath wrote:I said earlier in the season that we haven't played well this season, and because of our defence and luck we have ground out some victories. We are shadow of the team we were at the end of last season

Said the same for most of the season. We have been getting results when not playing well, which is the sign of a great team when that kind of performance and sneaking the win is an exception not what is the norm.

Was not a good game last night, but the Dragons deserved to win as they were the better side. Tovey played well as did their pack.

Glasgow were a total and utter shambles. Niko was atrocious, I am all for trying for something different, but his decisions and subsequent mistake, for the Tovey try was a joke. Its not just that, all his shoving and playing for penalties by blatantly running into defender and then diving, is embarrassing. Its also costing us. In the first half there was a high ball played into the corner of the Dragons 22. It was probably 70/30 in favour of the Defender, but instead of competing for the ball to make the mark difficult, which could have been spilled. He instead makes not attempt and then pushes the defender in the back, so instead of at best a free kick from a difficult angle, the Dragons one an easy penalty.

Niko gets lots of respect from the fans and rightly so, but in the same vein, he must take the criticism as well.

Hogg post injury was as poor as he was pre-injury and sorry, Scott Wight is just not up to it a pro level. There must be a number of Club Wingers who watch McGugian and be really annoyed they were never given a chance at Pro level.

At the breakdown the forwards lost to their opponents and as big a fan of him as I have been. Kellock is starting to look at club level what he has recently at International level, a passenger. Goal kicking was again substandard, which made the decision with a man advantage and 12 points down to go for the posts with 10 minutes to go even more bizarre.

Season is obviously not lost and we can still make the playoffs, but there is going to have to be big change and soon if we are not to slip into mid-table mediocrity.

Hopefully Townsend from the Cardiff games onwards, picks his best team and sticks with it. I know around this time you can't help changing the team, but we have changed 8 or 9 players every game this season from one week to another.

Heuer27 wrote:Thought the first could have been a straight red tbh. Talei took a v cheap shot on Hogg after he had moved the ball was only a yellow IMO though. Tovey ran the game well for Dragons but Glasgow were the architects of their own downfall. They didn't start playing with any conviction until the game was lost tbh. Even then they took the wrong option or made so silly mistake just as they had manoeuvred themselves into a scoring position.

Lots of other games that would have been a Red, although I thought a YC was fair enough.

Sounds like Pat Leach was very lucky to stay on the field. Looking forward to seeing the incident on Scrum V tonight - if they actually show it, that is.

On the suggestion that the Dragons were a dirty side on the night (and again without having watched the match): they were shown three yellow cards, thus punishment for their foul play. That's what yellow cards are there for. If there weren't any further, unpunished, misdemeanours, then what is there to complain about?

That's not meant to sound like a defence of foul play, although that is probably how it sounds. What I'm trying to say is that if we'd been playing at home and the visitors had three players in the bin and still managed to win, I'd be angrier at us for not capitalising on it than I would be at them for their (punished) foul play.

So we've established a few things for Glasgow, I feel.
 
1. We need our starters. This game should have put paid to the myth that we can put out any of our squad players and still beat anyone.
 
2. Swinson and Gray in the boiler room are, in the absence of Ryder obtaining fitness, some distance ahead of the competition.
 
3. Regular starters have made some of the more agricultural squad members (Wight, Barry) look better than they are.
 
4. Niko out of control is a dangerous thing. He needs taken in hand.
 
5. Jaysus C almighty, we need Peter Horne and Alex Dunbar. Good lord, I mean desperately.
 
6. The international window and the various machinations between club and country commitments is clearly hugely disruptive and distracting for players.  
 
7. We are in deeper trouble than recent results suggest. We have won despite the overall squad fluency and game plan, not because of it.
 
This needs to serve as a reality check for us. Everyone needs to get back to effing work, especially guys like Hogg and Ryder who are clearly nowhere near where they need to be. Harley and Strauss need to remember what it's like to be the bullied rather than the bully - this will have served as a nice big cup of humility.
 
I expect a very angry response to this result. That's what genuine title contenders do.

Gotta be honest, the tip tackle that was a yellow/could have been a red didn't look too bad on the replay shown on scrum v tonight. Albeit they only showed it once, from one angle and at normal speed. But it looked to me to be at the lower end of 'dangerous'. I've seen similar get yellows in the past. Then again, I've seem worse get yellows and lesser tackles get red, such is the inconsistency in these things!

I know I'm likely to be shot down as a biased, one eyed Dragons fan, but just thought I'd put my tuppence worth in (and then hide behind the internet and wait for the fallout!).

Don't worry Griff, these things are always subject to interpretation and (definitely in my case) personal bias. I haven't seen a replay, so my judgement was based purely on what I recall seeing - I'm sure Harley was flipped vertically, which is what swung it for me, but I can't remember if he was dropped. I'll have to check!

I think a yellow was about right. There were two men in the tackle, which might have been a factor. It was a bad tackle, no doubt about that, but he wasn't really dropped. (Which is just as well!)

Surely a red for discrimination against Gingers?

George Carlin wrote:Surely a red for discrimination against Gingers?

He's ginger himself, so maybe that's why it was only a yellow.