New European Rugby cup (or whatever it is called) - Qualification agreed

by Gibson Tue 19 Nov 2013, 2:30 pm

First topic message reminder :

But didn't the WRU and its regions capitulate and join their English Masters? Have they done a U-turn now? Looks like it.

Unless they want to hype up the Low Value Cup...

by Gibson Thu 21 Nov 2013, 11:21 pm

Sorry Jen darlin, missed that. Im far too busy having a smug self-satisfactory whaank at the minute bud.

I have a mental pic of McCafferty right now... and its not a purdy sight.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uzae_SqbmDE

by madmaccas Thu 21 Nov 2013, 11:24 pm

quinsforever wrote:
mystiroakey wrote:
madmaccas wrote:It may be a coincidence but I've noticed that mystiroakey and quintsforever always seem to be in agreement on every issue, and are online at the same times - always reinforcing the other's argument.
Its a coincidence
oh here we go again...

because there obviously couldnt be two people who have a similar opinion on this issue could there...

Oh so you've heard it before? Interesting.

As I said it's probably a coincidence, it's just rare to see two posters who also share an almost identical TOV and writing style.

by **Notch** Thu 21 Nov 2013, 11:24 pm

The Saint wrote:What I've concluded from the few passages I have read this evening is that the dispute is drawing to an end and the PRL have lost. There will be compromise, such as alterations to the qualification for the european competition and perhaps a tier system. So, everyone will be happy bar Bruce Craig?

They are welcome back any time

New European Rugby cup (or whatever it is called) - Qualification agreed - Page 11 12292003115114uz6

by mystiroakey Thu 21 Nov 2013, 11:25 pm

He is a better speller than me and has a better knowledge of rugby.,

Probably not as good looking though!

by quinsforever Thu 21 Nov 2013, 11:25 pm

TJ wrote:Lovely sour grapes from the PRL supporters - chaps you willbe welcome to join again next year if you can't this year.

I predicted this as the likely outcome right from the start as it was clear the PRL wanted the power and no way would they get it

the european cup is bigger than any one union. its a shame the PRL have refused to budge an inch despite getting almost everything they wanted on structure and finance they wanted control as well. I told you the PRL would be outed as the intransigent ones ans so it seems. the rest would go way beyond halfway but the PTL would not move an inch

you made quite a few predictions TJ... Whistle

by mystiroakey Thu 21 Nov 2013, 11:26 pm

Notch wrote:
The Saint wrote:What I've concluded from the few passages I have read this evening is that the dispute is drawing to an end and the PRL have lost. There will be compromise, such as alterations to the qualification for the european competition and perhaps a tier system. So, everyone will be happy bar Bruce Craig?
They are welcome back any time

If we beg how many spots you going to give us ?

by quinsforever Thu 21 Nov 2013, 11:27 pm

mystiroakey wrote:
quinsforever wrote:
mystiroakey wrote:
madmaccas wrote:It may be a coincidence but I've noticed that mystiroakey and quintsforever always seem to be in agreement on every issue, and are online at the same times - always reinforcing the other's argument.
Its a coincidence
oh here we go again...

because there obviously couldnt be two people who have a similar opinion on this issue could there...
I should have gone out last night mate- Would have solved this nonsense!

haha good point. although if you had you would have had a stonking hangover all day today Sad

by Gibson Thu 21 Nov 2013, 11:29 pm

by Sin é Thu 21 Nov 2013, 11:29 pm

Remember a few months back, some stuff made it into the public domain about the BT/PRL deal.

From what I recall, the deal was that the PRL deal was getting at least 4 nations involved in the competition.

If they didn't get the competition off the ground, the BT deal for the Premiership went back to it being less than what Sky offered for the Aviva rights.

Welsh international players will all exit the Welsh clubs to France to join teams where they know that they will be allowed play for Wales. The WRU can decide not to select anyone who plays in the Aviva Premiership.

by **Notch** Thu 21 Nov 2013, 11:30 pm

mystiroakey wrote:
Notch wrote:
The Saint wrote:What I've concluded from the few passages I have read this evening is that the dispute is drawing to an end and the PRL have lost. There will be compromise, such as alterations to the qualification for the european competition and perhaps a tier system. So, everyone will be happy bar Bruce Craig?
They are welcome back any time

If we beg how many spots you going to give us ?

Same as was agreed at the meeting the PRL didn't attend in October presumably. Minimum of 6 in a 20-team competition, so heavily in favour of the English even still

by quinsforever Thu 21 Nov 2013, 11:31 pm

mystiroakey wrote:He is a better speller than me and has a better knowledge of rugby.,

Probably not as good looking though!

http://www.wallcoo.net/movie/Shrek_2/m01/shrek2_wp09_1024.jpg

by Gibson Thu 21 Nov 2013, 11:32 pm

Governance has been re-established on the Boards.

As you were men.

This one is for my mate Caff.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zYYbK2sDaJ4

by The Saint Thu 21 Nov 2013, 11:32 pm

English and PRL it's quite simple. Join us or watch RU in your country die.

by mystiroakey Thu 21 Nov 2013, 11:32 pm

Notch wrote:
mystiroakey wrote:
Notch wrote:
The Saint wrote:What I've concluded from the few passages I have read this evening is that the dispute is drawing to an end and the PRL have lost. There will be compromise, such as alterations to the qualification for the european competition and perhaps a tier system. So, everyone will be happy bar Bruce Craig?
They are welcome back any time

If we beg how many spots you going to give us ?
Same as was agreed at the meeting the PRL didn't attend in October presumably. Minimum of 6 in a 20-team competition, so heavily in favour of the English even still

As i mentioned above,

as soon as the PRL: signed the BT and then the ERC signed sky- the rest was immaterial, no deal could be offered within the framework of the ERC. Well that is what the PRL are stating. And I have no real idea why they would make this up tbh.

by quinsforever Thu 21 Nov 2013, 11:34 pm

The Saint wrote:English and PRL it's quite simple. Join us or watch RU in your country die.

welcome back saint. i see your little break didnt soften the edges at all... Run

by Jenifer McLadyboy Thu 21 Nov 2013, 11:35 pm

mystiroakey wrote:
TJ wrote:
the european cup is bigger than any one union. its a shame the PRL have refused to budge an inch despite getting almost everything they wanted on structure and finance they wanted control as well.
strokey wrote:Will you
you dont know this for fact in the slightest bit.
strokey wrote:Ever
However what seems to be the case is
strokey wrote:learn
The prl have been asking for talks to make it fairer at the ERC- they have been refused for years.
strokey wrote:how to
they then quit the ERC along with France, they then signed a BT deal which was much more lucrative.
strokey wrote:use the
Then the ERC signed a sky deal straight away.
strokey wrote:Focking
at that point it was game over.. The ERC couldn't live on with the English.
strokey wrote:quote function
Then the deals came about rto split the money and spots almost equally between 3 leagues. These deals were nonsense and irrelevant because AP clubs couldn't play in the ERC after the AP signed the BT deal and the ERC signed the SKY deal.

For JAYSUS sake.

It's a pain in the hole trying to figure out who you are quoting.

by Gibson Thu 21 Nov 2013, 11:36 pm

Brilliant! guinness

by quinsforever Thu 21 Nov 2013, 11:36 pm

that must have taken ages!

by mystiroakey Thu 21 Nov 2013, 11:36 pm

Jenifer McLadyboy wrote:
mystiroakey wrote:
TJ wrote:
the european cup is bigger than any one union. its a shame the PRL have refused to budge an inch despite getting almost everything they wanted on structure and finance they wanted control as well.
strokey wrote:Will you
you dont know this for fact in the slightest bit.
strokey wrote:Ever
However what seems to be the case is
strokey wrote:learn
The prl have been asking for talks to make it fairer at the ERC- they have been refused for years.
strokey wrote:how to
they then quit the ERC along with France, they then signed a BT deal which was much more lucrative.
strokey wrote:use the
Then the ERC signed a sky deal straight away.
strokey wrote:Focking
at that point it was game over.. The ERC couldn't live on with the English.
strokey wrote:quote function
Then the deals came about rto split the money and spots almost equally between 3 leagues. These deals were nonsense and irrelevant because AP clubs couldn't play in the ERC after the AP signed the BT deal and the ERC signed the SKY deal.
For JAYSUS sake.

It's a pain in the hole trying to figure out who you are quoting.

What you done dude!

by Jenifer McLadyboy Thu 21 Nov 2013, 11:38 pm

quinsforever wrote: that must have taken ages!

About 30 seconds

quinsforever wrote: Mark

quinsforever wrote: McCaffo

quinsforever wrote: Interferes

quinsforever wrote: with himself

by TJ Thu 21 Nov 2013, 11:39 pm

How long before McCafferty is removed from any position of power.? His negotiation tactic of holding a gun to everyone head has lost the PRL teams everything.

McCafferty yesterday

New European Rugby cup (or whatever it is called) - Qualification agreed - Page 11 Blazingsaddles1

New European Rugby cup (or whatever it is called) - Qualification agreed - Page 11 Blazingsaddles1

by **Notch** Thu 21 Nov 2013, 11:39 pm

mystiroakey wrote:
Notch wrote:
mystiroakey wrote:
Notch wrote:
The Saint wrote:What I've concluded from the few passages I have read this evening is that the dispute is drawing to an end and the PRL have lost. There will be compromise, such as alterations to the qualification for the european competition and perhaps a tier system. So, everyone will be happy bar Bruce Craig?
They are welcome back any time

If we beg how many spots you going to give us ?
Same as was agreed at the meeting the PRL didn't attend in October presumably. Minimum of 6 in a 20-team competition, so heavily in favour of the English even still
As i mentioned above,

as soon as the PRL: signed the BT and then the ERC signed sky- the rest was immaterial, no deal could be offered within the framework of the ERC. Well that is what the PRL are stating. And I have no real idea why they would make this up tbh.

No i get that- but its never been about taking spots away from the English and it still isn't.

by TJ Thu 21 Nov 2013, 11:40 pm

Cos the PRL wanted to run the competition thats why no deal with the ERC

by ME-109 Thu 21 Nov 2013, 11:41 pm

Jenifer McLadyboy wrote:
mystiroakey wrote:
TJ wrote:
the european cup is bigger than any one union. its a shame the PRL have refused to budge an inch despite getting almost everything they wanted on structure and finance they wanted control as well.
strokey wrote:Will you
you dont know this for fact in the slightest bit.
strokey wrote:Ever
However what seems to be the case is
strokey wrote:learn
The prl have been asking for talks to make it fairer at the ERC- they have been refused for years.
strokey wrote:how to
they then quit the ERC along with France, they then signed a BT deal which was much more lucrative.
strokey wrote:use the
Then the ERC signed a sky deal straight away.
strokey wrote:Focking
at that point it was game over.. The ERC couldn't live on with the English.
strokey wrote:quote function
Then the deals came about rto split the money and spots almost equally between 3 leagues. These deals were nonsense and irrelevant because AP clubs couldn't play in the ERC after the AP signed the BT deal and the ERC signed the SKY deal.
For JAYSUS sake.

It's a pain in the hole trying to figure out who you are quoting.

now now Jen, he has it all sussed out in some parallel universe

by Jenifer McLadyboy Thu 21 Nov 2013, 11:42 pm

some total randomer wrote:It's not complicated

Any Eejit wrote:can do it

by Jenifer McLadyboy Thu 21 Nov 2013, 11:43 pm

the queen of England wrote:Is that you Philip?

by Gibson Thu 21 Nov 2013, 11:43 pm

quinsforever wrote:
The Saint wrote:English and PRL it's quite simple. Join us or watch RU in your country die.
welcome back saint. i see your little break didnt soften the edges at all...

Last joint. This is it. Ja.

by mystiroakey Thu 21 Nov 2013, 11:43 pm

Ladyboy wrote:sadly

Ladyboy wrote:I

Ladyboy wrote:cannie

Ladyboy wrote:work

Ladyboy wrote:Out

Ladyboy wrote:who

Ladyboy wrote:Is

Ladyboy wrote:talking

Ladyboy wrote:to

Ladyboy wrote:me

Ladyboy wrote:without

Ladyboy wrote:it

Ladyboy wrote:being

Ladyboy wrote:spelt

Ladyboy wrote:out

by Jenifer McLadyboy Thu 21 Nov 2013, 11:44 pm

Gibson wrote:
quinsforever wrote:
McCaffo wrote:Rabo Unions, it's quite simple. Join us or watch RU in your country die.
welcome back saint. i see your little break didnt soften the edges at all...

Last joint. This is it. Ja.

by HammerofThunor Thu 21 Nov 2013, 11:45 pm

Ok, I've broken my self imposed exile for being a knob so I can be a little more of knob.

1) The Regions aren't tied to the Pro12, the WRU is, I believe. Lewis has already said if they don't sign the Participation Agreement they're not in the Pro12.

2) The continuation of the 6 Nations requires at least some good will between the 6 Unions. Do people REALLY see the WRU being happy with the RFU taking over the 4 established teams in the heart of Wales? Can't see it happening, it would severely hamper any new teams the WRU created to replace them.

3) Only way the Regions would join any competition without the WRU's blessing is if they left union. Again, highly unlikely (mainly because they could only do it with the English and I can't see them leaving). Regardless of what some people keep saying they have a good relationship with the RFU at the moment. And they've already said that if a new competition doesn't happen they will simple not play in Europe.

4) Same goes with the French. Only way they'll join something without the FFR blessing is outside the IRB and I can't see the others wanting that.

5) I don't understand all this stuff about "French Law" means the FFR have more power over the French clubs. The FFR have the exact same control over the LNR as the RFU has over the PRL (who cares said the Law had nothing to do with it). Only difference is the FFR deal with the LNR runs out at the end of this year and the RFU/PRL ends in 2016. Someone may be able to reference what this "Law" is if it exists but the result is the same everywhere, as set out by the IRB.

6) The 'concessions' granted by the ERC were a smokescreen. We've all know for a year now that the PRL cannot be in an ERC competition due to the Sky/BT deals. The ERC have always said they're sticking by Sky. So they could have said they'll give 100% of the money to the PRL and have all 12 clubs in the top level with the one best team from each of the other unions and they still couldn't go for it. The concessions were meaningless. Also the PRL cannot join any ERC run European competition until 2018 (I think it was).

7) I don't understand the suggestions of the centrally contract French teams. Which players are they going to contract? The ones who's current contracts happen to run out at the end of 2014? What happens outside of the 6 (or so) ERC games? Who do these teams play?

8) It reads like Sky have agreed to play 24% less for the new competition so at least the PRO12 have the finances for the next year (hopefully the Regions are in and can get their players signed up).

9) This competition is for a year. The reason the Regions haven't signed the participation agreement is the uncertainty over the future finances. Will they sign a long term contract with only a year of European rugby finances guaranteed?

10) Err...I can't even remember what the first 6 were. I think I'll stop rambling now. Feel free to bitch slap me if I say anything to stupid (second time I've said that today). Mostly supposition and opinion but what else is there.

by Jenifer McLadyboy Thu 21 Nov 2013, 11:46 pm

Me wrote:Yaaay. He gets it.

Now just apply it to your life Smile

by ME-109 Thu 21 Nov 2013, 11:51 pm

Feic this, its like groundhog day here. I'm off back to Ireland v NZ where we are going to get hammered. Much more straightforward

by Gibson Thu 21 Nov 2013, 11:51 pm

Jen, you reckon Joe will play 13 Leinstermen v the KeeWees? I think he should. Approach it like an HC Final.

We never lose them. They'ed have no chance.

Sorry English fans, there's this big Cup we play in... Wouldn't interest ye.

by Jenifer McLadyboy Thu 21 Nov 2013, 11:51 pm

HammerofThunor wrote:
6) The 'concessions' granted by the ERC were a smokescreen. We've all know for a year now that the PRL cannot be in an ERC competition due to the Sky/BT deals. The ERC have always said they're sticking by Sky. So they could have said they'll give 100% of the money to the PRL and have all 12 clubs in the top level with the one best team from each of the other unions and they still couldn't go for it. The concessions were meaningless. Also the PRL cannot join any ERC run European competition until 2018 (I think it was).

Exactly. All the mouth and trousers for the past year and a half out of the PRL was BS. The "Unfairness" stuff inc money and qualification was all a smokescreen from PRL to get the poor aul English fans on board. They gambled that everyone would bow down before them and their boyish good looks and charm.

by Gibson Thu 21 Nov 2013, 11:56 pm

And they lost. Its over. For now.

by **Notch** Thu 21 Nov 2013, 11:58 pm

We'll be feeling the ramifications for years to come though.

by HammerofThunor Fri 22 Nov 2013, 12:01 am

Jenifer McLadyboy wrote:
HammerofThunor wrote:
6) The 'concessions' granted by the ERC were a smokescreen. We've all know for a year now that the PRL cannot be in an ERC competition due to the Sky/BT deals. The ERC have always said they're sticking by Sky. So they could have said they'll give 100% of the money to the PRL and have all 12 clubs in the top level with the one best team from each of the other unions and they still couldn't go for it. The concessions were meaningless. Also the PRL cannot join any ERC run European competition until 2018 (I think it was).
Exactly. All the mouth and trousers for the past year and a half out of the PRL was BS. The "Unfairness" stuff inc money and qualification was all a smokescreen from PRL to get the poor aul English fans on board. They gambled that everyone would bow down before them and their boyish good looks and charm.

They do think it was unfair. Quite a lot of other people think it was unfair. Quite a lot have said the proposed system was 'fairer' (whatever the hell that means). Including people in the SRU, WRU and various players (internet fact, no references). But all of that wasn't fixed and could be fluid. The issue with TV rights was fixed, completely and utterly. So all the compromise form the ERC since that point was complete and utter nonsense, a smoke screen so they can say "look what we've given but they want more" when in fact they knew all along that whatever they offered had to be rejected with the TV deal.

by mystiroakey Fri 22 Nov 2013, 12:03 am

Exactly hammer-

it was complete bs.

That deal could never go forward. The writing was on the wall as soon as the sky deal was signed

by HammerofThunor Fri 22 Nov 2013, 12:04 am

Gibson wrote:And they lost. Its over. For now.

Define lost. They said they weren't happy the current European competition and would sit out of Europe rather than play in a competition they weren't happy with. That's what is probably gong to happen. Of course if that rumour about the truth of the BT deal is true than the current system of English rugby is destroyed (at least for teams like Leicester and Exeter who don't rely on benefactors). Sarries and Bath will be fine with it.

by Gibson Fri 22 Nov 2013, 12:05 am

As in all power-struggles, time (and money of course), always finds an acceptable, if uncomfortable, happy medium.

The English will be back. I miss them already. Love traveling with my tribe around England. Met the best people on the way. Good rugby stock.

We are the losers here lads.

by HammerofThunor Fri 22 Nov 2013, 12:06 am

mystiroakey wrote:Exactly hammer-

it was complete bs.

That deal could never go forward. The writing was on the wall as soon as the sky deal was signed

And if I remember correctly the Sky deal was announced either later the same day as the BT deal or the next day so claiming that the ERC signed the Sky deal to doom the PRL is probably nonsense. They might have rushed forward the press release (the PRL deliberately put theirs out the day before/earlier).

by HammerofThunor Fri 22 Nov 2013, 12:08 am

Gibson wrote:As in all power-struggles, time (and money of course), always finds an acceptable, if uncomfortable, happy medium.

The English will be back. I miss them already. Love traveling with my tribe around England. Met the best people on the way. Good rugby stock.

We are the losers here lads.

To be honest I said in the beginning my preferred option is an English cup (like the old Pilkington Cup). Might not be best for team England or either English rugby in general but it would be the competition I would have the most interest in (in theory, doesn't exist so might be Poopie).

But, yes. I am a loser.

by Jenifer McLadyboy Fri 22 Nov 2013, 12:10 am

HammerofThunor wrote:
Jenifer McLadyboy wrote:
HammerofThunor wrote:
6) The 'concessions' granted by the ERC were a smokescreen. We've all know for a year now that the PRL cannot be in an ERC competition due to the Sky/BT deals. The ERC have always said they're sticking by Sky. So they could have said they'll give 100% of the money to the PRL and have all 12 clubs in the top level with the one best team from each of the other unions and they still couldn't go for it. The concessions were meaningless. Also the PRL cannot join any ERC run European competition until 2018 (I think it was).
Exactly. All the mouth and trousers for the past year and a half out of the PRL was BS. The "Unfairness" stuff inc money and qualification was all a smokescreen from PRL to get the poor aul English fans on board. They gambled that everyone would bow down before them and their boyish good looks and charm.
They do think it was unfair. Quite a lot of other people think it was unfair. Quite a lot have said the proposed system was 'fairer' (whatever the hell that means). Including people in the SRU, WRU and various players (internet fact, no references). But all of that wasn't fixed and could be fluid. The issue with TV rights was fixed, completely and utterly. So all the compromise form the ERC since that point was complete and utter nonsense, a smoke screen so they can say "look what we've given but they want more" when in fact they knew all along that whatever they offered had to be rejected with the TV deal.

We all accept it was unfair. The point is the PRL never cared about fairness. (It was just a tool) they wanted control.

by mystiroakey Fri 22 Nov 2013, 12:10 am

HammerofThunor wrote:
mystiroakey wrote:Exactly hammer-

it was complete bs.

That deal could never go forward. The writing was on the wall as soon as the sky deal was signed
And if I remember correctly the Sky deal was announced either later the same day as the BT deal or the next day so claiming that the ERC signed the Sky deal to doom the PRL is probably nonsense. They might have rushed forward the press release (the PRL deliberately put theirs out the day before/earlier).

All i have heard is that the prl went to the unions with this deal in place and that any nation was free to come into a new comp, and then the erc within seconds signed the sky contract.

Off course , all this is speculation- i actually have no idea(as i doubt anyone does the fact) the actual timings of it all

by Jenifer McLadyboy Fri 22 Nov 2013, 12:11 am

HammerofThunor wrote:

But, yes. I am a loser.

Ina Gibbo Styleee

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LCV0YXXyuHc

We (The fans) are all losers in this I suppose.

by blackcanelion Fri 22 Nov 2013, 12:12 am

I hope the Heineken stays. I think it's better for the game in Europe and the world game to be frank. I think the proposed would have seen the game stifled. It's no different from the super league war in my opinion (or the ABA/NBA, AFL/NFL wars). The propaganda about merit and development is just that. I always thought it was likely to lead to entrenched clubs, loss of international rugby and negative growth. What it would have done is expose European clubs and national sides to large scale loss of their top players should the the Olympics see development of the game outside of the European traditional strongholds. I think the proposal is strategically much better for everybody in the medium to long term.

by Sin é Fri 22 Nov 2013, 12:17 am

HammerofThunor wrote:
7) I don't understand the suggestions of the centrally contract French teams. Which players are they going to contract? The ones who's current contracts happen to run out at the end of 2014? What happens outside of the 6 (or so) ERC games? Who do these teams play?

A few weeks back, the FFR offered to centrally contract their International squad of (I think) 30 selected players. It is a big bone of contention for Toulouse in particular who complain that they have to maintain an extra large squad because of having to release players for international duty.

I'd imagine that and Toulouse's great history in the Heineken Cup will entice Toulouse to stick with the Heineken Cup.

by mystiroakey Fri 22 Nov 2013, 12:20 am

Does anyone know skys position on this.

I read that if the AP clubs didn't come back within a year or so they wouldn't probably be interested in the long term anyway

by Gibson Fri 22 Nov 2013, 12:20 am

Due diligence disaster.
You check out the path. You check out the legality of it all to the Nth degree, to even attempt to get there. You check out the intricacies of the TV deals, they are the decider. You cross-check all the existing and proposed contracts, to avoid potential phhukups.

One assumes McCaffety & Co did all this.

So?

by Gibson Fri 22 Nov 2013, 12:27 am

Jenifer McLadyboy wrote:
HammerofThunor wrote:

But, yes. I am a loser.
Ina Gibbo Styleee

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LCV0YXXyuHc

We (The fans) are all losers in this I suppose.

That' s the idea Jen. We all lose out here. I just want to watch rugby everywhere I can. And England is one of my favourite places to do that.

Its not just the rugby. It the local bread, cheese, slags, pies and beer we are talking about here. I always sample that in every rugby town I hit. Its essential for the soul.

So being selfish, I'm well peed off.

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