Heineken Cup backed by Celtic, French & Italian unions

First topic message reminder :

"The Heineken Cup will go ahead next season despite a planned breakaway tournament, say the Scottish, Welsh, Irish, French and Italian rugby unions."


http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/rugby-union/25045015


What does this now mean for the English plans, or does it now mean another year of bickering and cat chasing from all the Unions?

TJ wrote:Whats going to be even funnier is when the english clubs come begging for spaces again then who will have to give up places for them.  they will not get offered as good a deal as they have been again thats for sure.  Made too many enemies

The English won't be coming back. A lesser deal would make that even more certain. As would not having all the best French sides in to play.

Anything short of what they were holding out for means they are better off with a domestic knock-out cup.

TJ wrote:All french clubs have a route back in.  No one is excluded even the english.  No one cares about he amlin especially the french and they will be relieved not to be made to play in it.

Unless you are willing to give them 14 spots, they don't. The French sides certainly consider the Amlin low value, but they still want it, hence why seeking to make it more competitve was a primary aspect of their demands.

Not all french clubs will get in but all have the opportunity to do so. The French do not want the amlin at all. They only play in as they are contractually obliged to. the ones who will miss out from no second teir are the Italians who play in it.

The english clubs will be begging to get back in once they are on the outside looking in. Same as last time they took themselves out of it.

Get real guys - McCaffery and Wray have done you a great disservice - cost you the prestige of europe at least for one year it looks like, cost you a lot of money, cost you the chance to test yourselves against the best, cost you great preparation for internationals. Everyone loses from the english not being in europe but England lose most of all

There's so much wrong in there I don't even know where to start. You'll just have to wait to see how off the mark you are when it's confirmed what French clubs are playing under the ERC banner next year.

As was stated at the beginning of all this, the French hold the key and dividing them into groups with and without European games and money was a big mistake.

According to Brendan Fanning in today's Sunday Independent:

Rather it is the French clubs who have to choose between taking on the FFR or staying within the ERC fold. The FFR are fully backed by Government in their position that no French club will be taking part in any cross-border competition other than the Heineken Cup. It is understood this position was reiterated to [Irish] minister for transport, tourism and sport Leo Varadkar by his French counterpart at the WADA meeting in Johannesburg two weeks ago.

http://www.independent.ie/sport/rugby/momentum-with-the-old-guard-as-dday-looms-29779520.html

I think there are three key clubs.

Toulon, Toulouse, Clermont Auvergne

I think the FFR has to deliver those for this to be a success. If those three are on board it's a winner. Weakened, but unbroken. Any of them missing and the credibility of the Heineken Cup will take a massive hit. Toulon I think will be there- for, may I note, reasons which appall me and I entirely disagree with- I really don't know who else is on board.

Thats the crunch. It really is on a knife edge. It just isn't the Heineken Cup without Toulouse or Clermont.

Personally I think the French will go full in the HEC with top 6/8 going in. That's to get the new TV deal which is supposed to be worth 3 times the previous one (so €90M per year). Unless the FFR force some other constraints the player drain will probably ramp up.

HammerofThunor wrote:Personally I think the French will go full in the HEC with top 6/8 going in. That's to get the new TV deal which is supposed to be worth 3 times the previous one (so €90M per year). Unless the FFR force some other constraints the player drain will probably ramp up.

If all the top LNR teams enter the HEC, and if PRL sit it out, then that has to put pressure on those playing in England to move to France. Not good for anyone really. France neither ultimately.

Depends. Our players are generally not that great so probably not in great demand.

But yes, potentially not great for anyone.

HammerofThunor wrote:Depends. Our players are generally not that great so probably not in great demand.

But yes, potentially not great for anyone.

There's plenty of talent in England, Hammer. If PRL had have succeeded with the RCC, or if PRL did a complete about turn, and signed up to the HEC, then there would be less chance of player drain to France. What I'm thinking is that if PRL refuse to sign up with HEC; the longer they remain outside of European competition, the stronger LNR become. That's all speculation of course, but if the majority of LNR do sign up with HEC then hopefully that possibility would be something that might help sway PRL into signing up along with them. Very doubtful, but I'm allowed to hope.

I hope not. I know everyone's always banged on about the HEC but to me (and I think a fair few English fans) it's been about the ACC. Half of our teams are in it and it has a massive impact on our development for the international team.

Yet this current offer doesn't mention it at all. The previous offer a year ago was for 32 team comp. would have left two teams with nothing (all the Pro12 teams were involved of course). The only development to he ACC was to drop in the HEC failures, reducing the point of the ACC pool stages.

More than half of the premiership teams have had a good chance of being in the ACC. If they're not happy with the current competition and feel that the current governance is not going to develop the competition in the way they want then they should be involved.