Toby Flood thinking of giving up England ambitions and moving to France.

by **Rugby Fan** Wed 04 Dec 2013, 2:11 am

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/rugbyunion/international/england/10492703/Toby-Flood-puts-his-England-World-Cup-place-in-jeopardy-by-looking-at-moving-abroad-next-season.html

Toby Flood, the England and Leicester fly-half, has refused to rule out moving overseas next season, which would almost certainly put him out of consideration for the 2015 Rugby World Cup. Flood, who is out of contract at the end of this season, has been linked with Toulon to follow in the footsteps of Jonny Wilkinson, his former Newcastle team-mate.

Talks are under way on a variety of fronts, and the only element Flood, who has been at Leicester for 5½ years, was able to confirm on Tuesday was that he would not join another club in England. Leicester have asked for a decision within four weeks.

“I would never leave Leicester for another English club but I know I have to make up my mind as it affects other people and their livelihoods. I have spoken to Stuart [Lancaster] and tried to be as open and honest as I can be. But, no, I haven’t been on the phone yet to Jonny. I imagine a move [overseas] would probably rule me out of England. For me, it is no longer about whether a move might further my career. It is about where I feel comfortable, about who I enjoy hanging out with and where I’m living.

"Lifestyle is important. Of course a home World Cup will be amazing but maybe if you flipped memories from the 2007 and 2011 World Cups [marred by England scandal] then I wouldn’t have the same bitter taste. I realise that Stuart can make no guarantees. There is no perfect decision here, no right or wrong. If I stay, then I injure my knee a month before the World Cup, well, that shows there is no ideal scenario. It will be based on my gut instinct. When I signed for Leicester, I came down by train from Newcastle and there was the contract in front of me. It was a no-brainer.”

I suppose he could argue he'd be getting European competition in France.

by Hood83 Wed 04 Dec 2013, 8:05 am

I've said it before and I'll say again, he's still our best all-round 10.

by No 7&1/2 Wed 04 Dec 2013, 8:23 am

Is it wrong that I'm hoping Burns now ends up behind a good pack at Leicester and we can start to tell how good he really is?

by maestegmafia Wed 04 Dec 2013, 8:29 am

No 7&1/2 wrote:Is it wrong that I'm hoping Burns now ends up behind a good pack at Leicester and we can start to tell how good he really is?

I think Owen Williams will fit in nicely. The coaches at Tigers are huge fans.

Regarding him possibly leaving you may see number of players moving on who want European rugby. The players love the Heineken Cup even if the fans and PRL don't.

by doctor_grey Wed 04 Dec 2013, 8:36 am

No 7&1/2 wrote:Is it wrong that I'm hoping Burns now ends up behind a good pack at Leicester and we can start to tell how good he really is?

Yeah, it's wrong, but I get where you are coming from. Does Burns really have the goods? Very hard to tell at the moment. And Leicester would be looking for a front line out half if Flood leaves.

On the other hand, it does not seem right that Flood gets tossed out with the bath water. He is still young and played a part in one of England's big victories. My preference is for him to stay at Leicester. We've discussed this before: What happens if Farrell goes down? Right now? Nada.

by beshocked Wed 04 Dec 2013, 8:46 am

I wouldn't blame Flood if he looked abroad.

In terms of the fly half pecking order there's a real chance he could be overtaken by Ford, a more mature Cipriani and perhaps even Myler.

doctor grey you ask about Burns having the goods, I would say he certainly needs to up his kicking %. I think it's around the 50% mark in the AP at the moment which is not good enough.

by No 7&1/2 Wed 04 Dec 2013, 8:56 am

I'm one of those people that thinks Flood is slightly over rated. I'd agree he probably does have the best overall skillset but his decision making and control of games at international level leave me feeling frustrated half the time. I think he should be 3rd choice at the moment and he's only going to fall lower.

I'd agree beshocked Burns needs to up his kicking (59% is what I saw) still well short of Farrell which keeps pressure on the opposition but it's not the be all and end all or we'd all be calling for Myler.

by Barney McGrew did it Wed 04 Dec 2013, 8:56 am

One of SL's failures. He clearly doesn't trust Flood at FH and uses him as emergency in-game injury cover, and a few minutes pointless exercise at centre. Flood was part of some of England's best games over the last few years. SL's misuse of him means that we don't get a chance to see if he can really improve our current backs performance. Oh for the good old days of Flood setting up the much missed Splash.

Personally I think it's in Flood's interest to do what's best for himself.

by hugehandoff Wed 04 Dec 2013, 8:58 am

Maesteg...."The players love the Heineken Cup even if the fans and PRL don't."

I have not explored the detail in this issue, but I hardly think it is anything to do with the fans. Everybody loves the HC and long may a proper European competition continue. To watch English sides pitted against Welsh, Scots, Irish, French is what rugby is all about. Leicester away to Ospres or Saracens and Saints V Munster etc etc are the games we all want to see.

The PRL have an issue in the RFU controlling things when it is the club owners who have poured all their money in. It is a fair point and I only hope that some common sense and compromise is reached that benefits the entire game in England.

As for Flood I can see why he is interested. Take the money to secure your future because remaining just to be an unused standby for your country is not worth it. By 2015 I think Ford will be the no.2 or 1 so good luck to Toby and enjoy Toulon. I have never rated Toby as a top fly half, but would admit he is currently as good as we have, but that is not saying much.

by beshocked Wed 04 Dec 2013, 9:06 am

Disagree Barney. SL has tried Flood but Flood has not delivered.

E.g. SL started Flood vs Australia and South Africa last AIs, we lost both matches (I know he the 2nd he went off injured but he still missed two decisive kicks in that time). He started him vs Italy - England just about limped over the line despite an insipid display. Flood also had an opportunity to show what he could do vs NZ when Farrell went off but showed no improvement, if anything he was worse.

The Flood vs Burns head to head recently was very interesting.

by Toadfish Wed 04 Dec 2013, 9:30 am

maestegmafia wrote:
No 7&1/2 wrote:Is it wrong that I'm hoping Burns now ends up behind a good pack at Leicester and we can start to tell how good he really is?
I think Owen Williams will fit in nicely. The coaches at Tigers are huge fans.

Regarding him possibly leaving you may see number of players moving on who want European rugby. The players love the Heineken Cup even if the fans and PRL don't.

I can't see this as being an issue. We haven't historically lost many players abroad as I think the club set up/wages are so good here. Any good young player will have international ambitions and so I can't see why they would swap them for the chance to play in a cup competition. If they did I'd say good riddance as they are not the sort of players we want playing for England anyway.

Do you see this being a factor in Wales? Last I heard the regions are still not committed to European rugby next season. Do you think even more players will be leaving if they don't play?

by sirtidychris Wed 04 Dec 2013, 9:36 am

His name isn't big enough to command a starting spot at Toulon like wilko, he will probably be behind Giteau / michalak then after flood has signed Toulon will sign someone like Lambie/Slade as well.

by beshocked Wed 04 Dec 2013, 9:41 am

sirtidychris wrote:His name isn't big enough to command a starting spot at Toulon like wilko, he will probably be behind Giteau / michalak then after flood has signed Toulon will sign someone like Lambie/Slade as well.

That's true actually. At least at Leicester, Flood is no 1 fly half, he's the captain too. At Toulon he would have to fight off more competition.

At Leicester he only needs to fight off the competition of Lamb and Williams (who has flattered to deceive so far when I have seen him). Plus he's 28 - still too young for Toulon.

by **Rugby Fan** Wed 04 Dec 2013, 10:35 am

Flood probably had his best spell under Johnson, when he played in those back-to-back wins over Australia, and we saw the emergence of Ashton, Youngs, Lawes etc.

He started to look accomplised and the style of play suited his talents. Unfortunately, England got marmalized in their 2011 Six Nations match against Ireland, causing Johnson to lose faith with a number of his charges, including Flood.

At the World Cup, he was clearly running better than Wilkinson. Wilkinson was distracted by his failure to deal with the ball, and didn't enjoy the mood in the squad anyway. Flood was kicking well.

However, strongly influenced by the Ireland match, Johnson decided Wilkinson was the better big game player, giving him the 10 slot and kicking duties. In our defeat to France, Flood was played in the centre. Johnson should have dropped Wilkinson and played him in his preferred position.

Things might have been different for him if he'd gone well at the World Cup. Given the number of caps he collected, though, he didn't have a lot of stand-out performances in an England shirt.

I wonder whether those concussions he picked up will be a factor in his decision. They might be tipping him towards looking for a big pay day over one or two more years, rather than taking the risk his career will last into his thirties.

by Barney McGrew did it Wed 04 Dec 2013, 11:08 am

How many stand out performances has Farrell had for England tho? Not enough, or we wouldn't be having this debate. Even his trusty boot was suspect in the Aus game.

Look I can see Farrell is the incumbent and the more of the future than Flood. But a top side needs constant competition for each position. He's used the competitive approach for the pack (eg TY & Dylan, SR, even props). I think that SL could manage this better with Flood - silly cameos at centre are a waste of time, and show muddled thinking. Give him a bit of a run in games that more suit his style. Good defence is the cornerstone of test rugby, but with SL the balance is a bit too much toward defence.

by Breadvan Wed 04 Dec 2013, 11:37 am

maestegmafia wrote:
No 7&1/2 wrote:Is it wrong that I'm hoping Burns now ends up behind a good pack at Leicester and we can start to tell how good he really is?
I think Owen Williams will fit in nicely. The coaches at Tigers are huge fans.

Regarding him possibly leaving you may see number of players moving on who want European rugby. The players love the Heineken Cup even if the fans and PRL don't.

So when has the PRL been the voice of the fans? Crass statement tbh and an insult to those who flock to HC games in the AP.

by beshocked Wed 04 Dec 2013, 11:43 am

Standout performances I would say were vs NZ last year and Scotland in the 6 nations. Can't really argue with that when you look at the scorelines.

He should also get credit for his performance vs France in 2012. The only game I would say he's been really poor was vs Wales but very few players did well in that match.

Most of the time he has performed better than his opposite 10 in my opinion.

Trusty boot might have failed him in the Aus game but he scored a try.

Is Farrell's 100% kicking vs NZ mentioned? Nope, just his poor kicking vs the Aussies.

by No 7&1/2 Wed 04 Dec 2013, 11:47 am

I would say he was great against Ireland as well. I know we're not allowed to say this but I honestly thought he was the more in form fly half for the Lions as well (if you discount the sweat bath which was the Baa Baas game).

by Scrumpy Wed 04 Dec 2013, 1:03 pm

Breadvan wrote:
maestegmafia wrote:
No 7&1/2 wrote:Is it wrong that I'm hoping Burns now ends up behind a good pack at Leicester and we can start to tell how good he really is?
I think Owen Williams will fit in nicely. The coaches at Tigers are huge fans.

Regarding him possibly leaving you may see number of players moving on who want European rugby. The players love the Heineken Cup even if the fans and PRL don't.
So when has the PRL been the voice of the fans? Crass statement tbh and an insult to those who flock to HC games in the AP.

Well said Breadvan. thumbsup

Cheers Toby Yahoo

by sirtidychris Wed 04 Dec 2013, 1:05 pm

Was Flood even on the Lions tour ? I though the problem was the lack of flyhalfs which included only Sexton and..... Hogg !

Flood will be a big loss TBH, with Faz potentially stuggling to nail down the club 10 shirt, Burns suffering behind a powderpuff scrum, Ford being too wet behind the ears and Cipriani being well...Cipriani, Flood would be vital squad player for a home world cup at a great guy to step up. Sadly he is fed up of being in and out the squad when in his mind after 2011 he should have been nailed on number 1. If andy farrell stayed at sarries flood probably would be our number 1 at the moment and a decision making backline of Youngs, Flood, Twelvetrees, would at least be more cohesive than the dross we saw over the AI's !!

by No 7&1/2 Wed 04 Dec 2013, 1:07 pm

Sorry referring to Farrell for the Lions not Flood.

by Bathman_in_London Wed 04 Dec 2013, 1:51 pm

If I were him I'd think very seriously about going to be honest. Make a load more money, have a better lifestyle and as Farrell seems to be no.1 choice, he wouldn't really be losing anything international-wise.

I've always thought is a good player, arguably the best all round FH's that England has. But maybe just being pretty good at everything isn't enough for SL.

Burns at Leicester (or so the rumours go) will be interesting.

by lostinwales Wed 04 Dec 2013, 2:07 pm

He has been very good in the past (really very underrated). I dont know if he just hasnt been playing when fully fit, just been out of form or if its just wear and tear but he has done very little in the recent chances he has had.

I always think of him making lots of little half breaks but these days he just seems to get hammered instead

by mystiroakey Wed 04 Dec 2013, 3:03 pm

Good on him,

TBH its farrell, burns or Cipriani for me anyway

by ChequeredJersey Wed 04 Dec 2013, 3:06 pm

It'll be ironic when due to lack of participation in the HEC, the RFU only allow non Premiership players to play for England

by mystiroakey Wed 04 Dec 2013, 3:07 pm

fine by me.

its not ironic- its the way it is

by ScarletSpiderman Wed 04 Dec 2013, 3:33 pm

I think if he does go, especially to Toulon, he will be one of those players people will be screaming to be included in the England squad. I think given the quality of players around him at Toulon, he will shine. After all he may not be a flashy fly half, but he is a good distributer and also a pretty good tactical kicker.

by Hood83 Wed 04 Dec 2013, 3:46 pm

beshocked wrote:Standout performances I would say were vs NZ last year and Scotland in the 6 nations. Can't really argue with that when you look at the scorelines.

He should also get credit for his performance vs France in 2012. The only game I would say he's been really poor was vs Wales but very few players did well in that match.

Most of the time he has performed better than his opposite 10 in my opinion.

Trusty boot might have failed him in the Aus game but he scored a try.

Is Farrell's 100% kicking vs NZ mentioned? Nope, just his poor kicking vs the Aussies.

I thought Farrell was OK against NZ but one of the more average players in a good team performance, he wasn't a stand-out. Scotland were dire, and again he was OK. I'm not sure Flood has shone much more but he's a far more rounded player than Farrell IMO.

Farrell's defence and kicking is excellent, easily international level. Everything else, no. The problem with him starting is the smarter opposition know they don't have to defend him running, everyone fans out and engulfs our centres. I still think Flood is ahead of him and he's been elevated before being allowed to develop.

by majesticimperialman Wed 04 Dec 2013, 4:23 pm

I cannot blame Flood for going to France. If he did choose to go that is.

Regarding playing for England he seems to be on if and when basis. He will get a game if we need him, But now i thinks he as dropped between Farrell and Burns to be honest.
Some one mentioned Cipriani maybe a head of Flood, I dought that.

by beshocked Wed 04 Dec 2013, 4:24 pm

Hood83 wrote:
beshocked wrote:Standout performances I would say were vs NZ last year and Scotland in the 6 nations. Can't really argue with that when you look at the scorelines.

He should also get credit for his performance vs France in 2012. The only game I would say he's been really poor was vs Wales but very few players did well in that match.

Most of the time he has performed better than his opposite 10 in my opinion.

Trusty boot might have failed him in the Aus game but he scored a try.

Is Farrell's 100% kicking vs NZ mentioned? Nope, just his poor kicking vs the Aussies.
I thought Farrell was OK against NZ but one of the more average players in a good team performance, he wasn't a stand-out. Scotland were dire, and again he was OK. I'm not sure Flood has shone much more but he's a far more rounded player than Farrell IMO.

Farrell's defence and kicking is excellent, easily international level. Everything else, no. The problem with him starting is the smarter opposition know they don't have to defend him running, everyone fans out and engulfs our centres. I still think Flood is ahead of him and he's been elevated before being allowed to develop.

Hood83 you seem to have a very weird definition of the word average. Farrell played well vs the ABs. More so in the 1st match where he was involved in two of the tries (it was his two passes which led to breaks for Barritt and Tuilagi) plus his place kicking was excellent and his drop goal was like clockwork.

2nd game I felt he was let down by Tomkins in particular.

Well Farrell was made man of the match vs Scotland so even if you thought he was average...well....

I know you dislike Farrell but come on man. Give him some credit when it's due.

Elevated before being allowed to develop? If Farrell Jr was Welsh he'll probably be hailed as a deity. That's the problem with many England fans in regards to Farrell and the likes of Robshaw. They love to bash them despite them not actually being that bad at all.

Okay Robshaw is no Neil Back or Richard Hill just yet and Farrell Jr is not Sir Jonny or Dan Carter but let's give them both a chance.

Flood would probably be smart to take the paycheque and chill in the South of France. Would certainly get less criticism. 10 is one of those main positions where players are ripped to pieces by armchair warriors.

by mystiroakey Wed 04 Dec 2013, 4:27 pm

They will love Flood in France.

JW no.2 he will be tagged as.

I like him a lot and hope he does well. WE dont really need him any more.

by maestegmafia Wed 04 Dec 2013, 4:45 pm

Toadfish wrote:. Do you think even more players will be leaving if they don't play?

Definitely...!

Players want to play their best against the best.

That said I don't think the reason they have not signed the next agreement with the WRU is over Europe. It is more them using the possible alternative as a way of raising their demands in leverage.

It won't happen because the PRL will not fund the regions as well as the WRU currently does.

by beshocked Wed 04 Dec 2013, 5:00 pm

maestegmafia wrote:
Toadfish wrote:. Do you think even more players will be leaving if they don't play?
Definitely...!

Players want to play their best against the best.

That said I don't think the reason they have not signed the next agreement with the WRU is over Europe. It is more them using the possible alternative as a way of raising their demands in leverage.

It won't happen because the PRL will not fund the regions as well as the WRU currently does.

It's not the best if it doesn't involve the best. I know you seem to be under the blinkered view point that an European competition without English clubs is just as valuable as it is with them but it's not.

by maestegmafia Wed 04 Dec 2013, 5:21 pm

beshocked wrote:
It's not the best if it doesn't involve the best. I know you seem to be under the blinkered view point that an European competition without English clubs is just as valuable as it is with them but it's not.

I didn't say that. I said that the Heineken Cup even, sadly without the English (by their own malevolence) is a better competition than a Welsh/English amalgamation.

The option of playing five or six good English teams or seven or eight great French teams, the Irish the scots and the Italians. It is a no brainer...!

by thomh Wed 04 Dec 2013, 5:26 pm

beshocked wrote:Hood83 you seem to have a very weird definition of the word average. Farrell played well vs the ABs. More so in the 1st match where he was involved in two of the tries (it was his two passes which led to breaks for Barritt and Tuilagi) plus his place kicking was excellent and his drop goal was like clockwork.

He was good in that game, but let's be honest - the pass to Tuilagi leading to Ashton's try was absolute garbage. Behind the man and causing him to check his run. Not to Farrell's credit that Tuilagi still managed to bust three tackles and make a scoring pass.

by Exiledinborders Wed 04 Dec 2013, 7:10 pm

maestegmafia wrote:
No 7&1/2 wrote:Is it wrong that I'm hoping Burns now ends up behind a good pack at Leicester and we can start to tell how good he really is?
I think Owen Williams will fit in nicely. The coaches at Tigers are huge fans.

Regarding him possibly leaving you may see number of players moving on who want European rugby. The players love the Heineken Cup even if the fans and PRL don't.

Owen Williams has looked very average when I have seen him. I am sure Tigers will bring in a top level fly half. Williams will remain for backup and low priority matches LV etc..

As for Heineken Cup I do not think this is anything to do with it. Flood thinks his career at England Fly Half is just about over and he wants a big pay day. Who can blame him?

by maestegmafia Wed 04 Dec 2013, 7:29 pm

Exiledinborders wrote:
maestegmafia wrote:
No 7&1/2 wrote:Is it wrong that I'm hoping Burns now ends up behind a good pack at Leicester and we can start to tell how good he really is?
I think Owen Williams will fit in nicely. The coaches at Tigers are huge fans.

Regarding him possibly leaving you may see number of players moving on who want European rugby. The players love the Heineken Cup even if the fans and PRL don't.
Owen Williams has looked very average when I have seen him. I am sure Tigers will bring in a top level fly half. Williams will remain for backup and low priority matches LV etc..

As for Heineken Cup I do not think this is anything to do with it. Flood thinks his career at England Fly Half is just about over and he wants a big pay day. Who can blame him?

Are you sure? The Tigers coaches rate him very highly

Richard Cockerill said...!

"Owen has been very good for the Scarlets, he is a very good goal-kicker, and is still a young man.

"Hopefully, in our environment, he will get lots of opportunities. With George Ford moving on, we wanted to try to get another young player in there to try to develop and bring through. Owen will be one of those.

"He played in the Under-20s World Championships 12 months ago, has played at inside-centre too, and is a big lad. He kicks off very well and kicks very well out of hand and, like most Welsh players, he knows how to play.

"We look forward to having Owen here and we think he has a bright future.

From the Mercury

Leicester Tigers fly-half Owen Williams continues to make waves in the LV= Cup.

The Welsh fly-half earned himself a move to Welford Road after a stunning 21-point performance for Llanelli Scarlets against Leicester in last season's competition.

On his first outing for Tigers in the Anglo-Welsh this season, the 21-year-old continued that form, leading his side to a 39-16 win against Ospreys on Friday night with another 19 points from his big boot.

Williams heads to Sixways on Friday to face Worcester and is looking forward to getting more game-time under his belt.

Read more: http://www.leicestermercury.co.uk/Leicester-Tigers-news-Fly-half-Owen-Williams/story-20065510-detail/story.html#ixzz2mXIvM3Kw

by Guest Wed 04 Dec 2013, 7:50 pm

Hood83 wrote:I've said it before and I'll say again, he's still our best all-round 10.

by thomh Wed 04 Dec 2013, 7:51 pm

I read that as him saying (before Williams even joined the club) that Williams has a big future if he develops properly - similar to what he'd have been saying about Ford one or two years ago. That doesn't mean that they'll want him to be their main fly half at the age of 22 after one season of LV= Cup, replacing a 60 cap international in his best years.

Flood has already said that Leicester are talking to potential replacements should he decide to leave.

by maestegmafia Wed 04 Dec 2013, 8:40 pm

thomh wrote:I read that as him saying (before Williams even joined the club) that Williams has a big future if he develops properly - similar to what he'd have been saying about Ford one or two years ago. That doesn't mean that they'll want him to be their main fly half at the age of 22 after one season of LV= Cup, replacing a 60 cap international in his best years.

Possibly

That is why I posted the article below Cockerills comments on how well he is doing for the Tigers this season. Great player, very young and a huge prospect as a future star.

by thomh Wed 04 Dec 2013, 9:18 pm

I'm sure you're right about that, but I just can't see a club like Leicester not replacing Flood with a 22 year old with almost no first team experience, especially if someone like Burns was available.

by maestegmafia Wed 04 Dec 2013, 9:32 pm

thomh wrote:I'm sure you're right about that, but I just can't see a club like Leicester not replacing Flood with a 22 year old with almost no first team experience, especially if someone like Burns was available.

We will have to wait and see.

I was trying to find another article on Williams with Cockerill I read recently but I can't remember where it was published. The guys was that the tigers coaches saw Williams as a player to take them forward.

Having seen him for a few seasons now I can see why they rate him so highly, Burns doesn't offer anything Williams can't already offer in equal amount. He has great composure. Did a great job covering for injured Priestland in the closing stages of the RP12 last season.

by **Rugby Fan** Thu 05 Dec 2013, 5:05 am

maestegmafia wrote:...Burns doesn't offer anything Williams can't already offer in equal amount...

Williams isn't England-qualified, so Leicester can't get any RFU money for him. They currently do with Flood and would with Burns. That's a separate issue from pure playing ability but, for a professional club, it's a consideration.

by maestegmafia Thu 05 Dec 2013, 8:59 am

Rugby Fan wrote:
maestegmafia wrote:...Burns doesn't offer anything Williams can't already offer in equal amount...
Williams isn't England-qualified, so Leicester can't get any RFU money for him. They currently do with Flood and would with Burns. That's a separate issue from pure playing ability but, for a professional club, it's a consideration.

Nick Evans is NEQ, so are Sweeney, Botica, Humphreys, O'Conner, Macleod or Mieres to name a few. Bar Nick Evans, Owen Williams is the better payer at flyhalf.

by **Rugby Fan** Thu 05 Dec 2013, 12:24 pm

maestegmafia wrote:
Rugby Fan wrote:
maestegmafia wrote:...Burns doesn't offer anything Williams can't already offer in equal amount...
Williams isn't England-qualified, so Leicester can't get any RFU money for him. They currently do with Flood and would with Burns. That's a separate issue from pure playing ability but, for a professional club, it's a consideration.
Nick Evans is NEQ, so are Sweeney, Botica, Humphreys, O'Conner, Macleod or Mieres to name a few. Bar Nick Evans, Owen Williams is the better payer at flyhalf.

Not sure what that's got to do with it since no-one is saying Leicester have only England-qualified players. The club does take it into account when recruiting players, however. Consequently, it's not true when you say that, Burns (or any other England qualified player) can't offer anything more than Williams.

by No 7&1/2 Thu 05 Dec 2013, 12:31 pm

With Hibbard off and Afoa going to an unnamed English club could Gloucester be strengthening their pack to try and keep their better backs. Interesting that these 2 players obviously don't love the Heineken Cup!

by BamBam Thu 05 Dec 2013, 12:42 pm

If its true that Burns is off to Leicester, I want to see him get a good solid run of games behind that pack. It could be the making of him in England terms.

Williams should not be given a shot ahead of Burns, Leicester have a good history with England players and I have no doubt that they could do the same with Burns. May also help if he can form a good partnership with Ben Youngs.

I would be very surprised if given non EQ and English players of the same age and quality, Leicester went with the non EQ player

by Peter Seabiscuit Wheeler Thu 05 Dec 2013, 1:40 pm

Rugby Fan wrote:
maestegmafia wrote:...Burns doesn't offer anything Williams can't already offer in equal amount...
Williams isn't England-qualified, so Leicester can't get any RFU money for him. They currently do with Flood and would with Burns. That's a separate issue from pure playing ability but, for a professional club, it's a consideration.

Having to pay him about a fifth of what Floods agent is angling for with this story would also be a consideration?

Tigers wont be held to ransom. If they cant meet Floods wage demands without losing other players he will go.
Looking at his injury record over the past few seasons it might not be such a bad thing, the odd time he is fit hes getting called up for England and broken again. Hes a player I highly rate when he can get a run of games together be Tigers have seen relatively little of him in the last few seasons. Why not go with the guys who arent getting capped (although Burns becomes a problem in that regard if Flood does fail to get release clauses in his contract).

It does stink of a cooked up story though both to the slap Tigers into paying more and from Tigers side to prod the RFU about salary caps and payments for England players.

by flankertye Sun 08 Dec 2013, 5:22 pm

If Brock James can manage a decent career in france then Flood will tear it up!

by Nachos Jones Mon 09 Dec 2013, 8:51 am

I like Flood, always have and feel that he has been let down by England. I actually rate him higher than Farrell.

He will do very well in France because they play the type of rugby that he enjoys. Good luck to him if he does take the move.

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