Toby Flood thinking of giving up England ambitions and moving to France.

by **Rugby Fan** Wed Dec 04, 2013 2:11 am

First topic message reminder :

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/rugbyunion/international/england/10492703/Toby-Flood-puts-his-England-World-Cup-place-in-jeopardy-by-looking-at-moving-abroad-next-season.html

Toby Flood, the England and Leicester fly-half, has refused to rule out moving overseas next season, which would almost certainly put him out of consideration for the 2015 Rugby World Cup. Flood, who is out of contract at the end of this season, has been linked with Toulon to follow in the footsteps of Jonny Wilkinson, his former Newcastle team-mate.

Talks are under way on a variety of fronts, and the only element Flood, who has been at Leicester for 5½ years, was able to confirm on Tuesday was that he would not join another club in England. Leicester have asked for a decision within four weeks.

“I would never leave Leicester for another English club but I know I have to make up my mind as it affects other people and their livelihoods. I have spoken to Stuart [Lancaster] and tried to be as open and honest as I can be. But, no, I haven’t been on the phone yet to Jonny. I imagine a move [overseas] would probably rule me out of England. For me, it is no longer about whether a move might further my career. It is about where I feel comfortable, about who I enjoy hanging out with and where I’m living.

"Lifestyle is important. Of course a home World Cup will be amazing but maybe if you flipped memories from the 2007 and 2011 World Cups [marred by England scandal] then I wouldn’t have the same bitter taste. I realise that Stuart can make no guarantees. There is no perfect decision here, no right or wrong. If I stay, then I injure my knee a month before the World Cup, well, that shows there is no ideal scenario. It will be based on my gut instinct. When I signed for Leicester, I came down by train from Newcastle and there was the contract in front of me. It was a no-brainer.”

I suppose he could argue he'd be getting European competition in France.

by maestegmafia Mon Dec 09, 2013 9:23 am

Nachos Jones wrote:I like Flood, always have and feel that he has been let down by England. I actually rate him higher than Farrell.

He will do very well in France because they play the type of rugby that he enjoys. Good luck to him if he does take the move.

Completely agree. It is a far greater concern for opposition when you see Flood on the team sheet.

by No 7&1/2 Mon Dec 09, 2013 9:36 am

Strange isn't it. As an England fan i would much prefer Farrell in the team over Flood. Flood tends to have a great game when he catches the eye then a few where he can't find touch with kicks, runs into trouble and seemingly can't give us a platform to work from.

by Nachos Jones Mon Dec 09, 2013 9:42 am

No 7&1/2 wrote:Strange isn't it. As an England fan i would much prefer Farrell in the team over Flood. Flood tends to have a great game when he catches the eye then a few where he can't find touch with kicks, runs into trouble and seemingly can't give us a platform to work from.

The thing is, with Farrell you know what to expect and can set a fairly easy defensive line for him whereas with Flood, he can be more unpredictable and cause defensive issues. I rate Farrell as long as England are dominating in the forwards but when England are on the backfoot, Flood any day of the week for me.

They both have their strength and weakness' but I think that Flood is the more complete player and will make more things happen than Farrell.

by maestegmafia Mon Dec 09, 2013 9:45 am

No 7&1/2 wrote:Strange isn't it. As an England fan i would much prefer Farrell in the team over Flood. Flood tends to have a great game when he catches the eye then a few where he can't find touch with kicks, runs into trouble and seemingly can't give us a platform to work from.

It is bizarre...?

Farrell has had very few decent games compared to Flood. To be honest he has had few compared to Hodgson let alone Flood

by No 7&1/2 Mon Dec 09, 2013 9:49 am

Well personally I'm glad to have Farrell, Burns and Ford coming through now. Hoping Flood does move to France. Hopefully if Gloucester improve their front 5 with the additions of Afoa and Hibbard or Burns moves to Leicester to replace the departing Flood we will be able to see what a more attacking player can do with a decent platform and help to push Farrell more. Flood can't.

by maestegmafia Mon Dec 09, 2013 10:25 am

Ford looks superb, Burns in patches, both young so plenty of time to progress to fill the roll. England need to give them game time over Farrell, I think they both look to have more chance of succeeding at the top than Farrell.

by Geordie Mon Dec 09, 2013 10:37 am

Lancaster isnt going to drop Farrell anytime soon!

The England team is built around strong defence and a little or no risk environment. Farrell fits perfectly into that.

by No 7&1/2 Mon Dec 09, 2013 11:07 am

Like it or not farrell Is already succeeding at the top.

by maestegmafia Mon Dec 09, 2013 11:11 am

GeordieFalcon wrote:Lancaster isnt going to drop Farrell anytime soon!

The England team is built around strong defence and a little or no risk environment. Farrell fits perfectly into that.

Its crazy to think that players as good as Ford and Burn will be second fiddle to a guy who has apparently got a stronger defence....?

Ford has been great in defence, Burn isn't exactly a revolving door either...! The other lads need a chance soon, it is better to have three confident good players with ability rather than one and some lads who fill in when he is unavailable.

If players like Ford and Burns don't feel like Farrell's position is attainable when they demonstrate higher skill and ability, then they will be following Flood to France as well.

by Nachos Jones Mon Dec 09, 2013 11:12 am

I don't say that Farrell is not succeeding, I just don't think that he is a better 10 than Flood.

If England's forwards are placed on the backfoot, he looks poor. He doesn't seem as capable as Flood in organising his backs.

by maestegmafia Mon Dec 09, 2013 11:13 am

No 7&1/2 wrote:Like it or not farrell Is already succeeding at the top.

He has bottled his confidence in many situations when pressure has been applied over the last year or two, England's backline has had no impact since he started playing at flyhalf. I would say he still has a hell of a lot to prove.

by Nachos Jones Mon Dec 09, 2013 11:14 am

maestegmafia wrote:
GeordieFalcon wrote:Lancaster isnt going to drop Farrell anytime soon!

The England team is built around strong defence and a little or no risk environment. Farrell fits perfectly into that.

Its crazy to think that players as good as Ford and Burn will be second fiddle to a guy who has apparently got a stronger defence....?

Ford has been great in defence, Burn isn't exactly a revolving door either...! The other lads need a chance soon, it is better to have three confident good players with ability rather than one and some lads who fill in when he is unavailable.

If players like Ford and Burns don't feel like Farrell's position is attainable when they demonstrate higher skill and ability, then they will be following Flood to France as well.

That there is an excellent point and one that the England management should be very much aware of.

by maestegmafia Mon Dec 09, 2013 11:18 am

Nachos Jones wrote:
maestegmafia wrote:
GeordieFalcon wrote:Lancaster isnt going to drop Farrell anytime soon!

The England team is built around strong defence and a little or no risk environment. Farrell fits perfectly into that.

Its crazy to think that players as good as Ford and Burn will be second fiddle to a guy who has apparently got a stronger defence....?

Ford has been great in defence, Burn isn't exactly a revolving door either...! The other lads need a chance soon, it is better to have three confident good players with ability rather than one and some lads who fill in when he is unavailable.

If players like Ford and Burns don't feel like Farrell's position is attainable when they demonstrate higher skill and ability, then they will be following Flood to France as well.

That there is an excellent point and one that the England management should be very much aware of.

Its happening everywhere, 18 months ago we wouldn't have though Ireland would lose players abroad, but it is happening now and it will effect England too. It is a hell of a lot sadder when it is the young guys that are going than when it is established players who feel undervalued.

by No 7&1/2 Mon Dec 09, 2013 11:20 am

You can talk about higher skill etc but Farrell is Englands best 10 at the moment. I would agree that in the 6Ns we need to see Burns (and no doubt when he's injured, Ford) as we need the younger players to be given a chance to acclimatise. Farrell has very little to prove for me as he's been involved in an improving England for a good while now. Nailed on starter and up to the other 10s to push him consistently, which they haven't so far. And over the last year or 2 maes i would think that Farrell has been the 2nd best 10 out of the home nations.

by Nachos Jones Mon Dec 09, 2013 11:25 am

maestegmafia,

You can see how much the move to Racing Metro has affected Sexton. To me it was very bad business to allow him to leave Ireland.

Farrell is very much England's incumbent 10 but that does not necessarily make him the best option. Its just my opinion (as an Irish fan) that he does not worry me as much when I see his name on the teamsheet as opposed to Floods.

Take out the indiscipline against England and you nullify Farrell to some degree.

by Geordie Mon Dec 09, 2013 11:32 am

Im not sure i would say flood is strong behind a beaten pack. I think he's poor behind one.

The one thing you simply cant knock farrell for is ...hes a winner. He's played the big games and as 7 1/2 said he IS succeeding at the top level.

Ive said it before...i'd like to see Farrell play a bit freer for England. He seems to be under strict orders to stand deep etc..

by maestegmafia Mon Dec 09, 2013 11:36 am

No 7&1/2 wrote:You can talk about higher skill etc but Farrell is Englands best 10 at the moment. I would agree that in the 6Ns we need to see Burns (and no doubt when he's injured, Ford) as we need the younger players to be given a chance to acclimatise. Farrell has very little to prove for me as he's been involved in an improving England for a good while now. Nailed on starter and up to the other 10s to push him consistently, which they haven't so far. And over the last year or 2 maes i would think that Farrell has been the 2nd best 10 out of the home nations.

I can't agree with the last statement whatsoever, he isn't even the best flyhalf at Saracens in my opinion thats by the by, its subjective..!

Thing is as you say it is, "up to the other 10s to push him consistently, which they haven't so far" but they have had no opportunity to.

Watching the English Premiership I would say Ford, Flood and Burns all play a much better, far more rounded game than Farrell who always looks incredibly one dimensional and short on ideas when the others looks instinctive, creative, intelligent and industrious.

by No 7&1/2 Mon Dec 09, 2013 11:40 am

Flood has had chances and never looked more than mediocre over a run of games for England. Ford is in his 1st real season as a guaranteed starter and is impressing. Burns, who I'm a big fan of, is struggling with his kicking somewhat this year. Being a good 10 is more than throwing the ball about and doing flashy stuff.

by Nachos Jones Mon Dec 09, 2013 11:40 am

GeordieFalcon,

I am not saying that Flood is great behind a pack going backwards, I just think that he is better than Farrell when that's the case.

I like Farrell, I really do but I just don't rate him as highly as I do others. I think that he has benefitted a lot more than he would have done if his dad was not in the setup. It certainly appears (as maestegmafia alluded too) that his spot is in no danger and that will not benefit England in the future. Burn's, too me, also seems to be a better option.

I actually think that Farrell would make a better 12 than 10 and would work perfectly with Manu...

by Geordie Mon Dec 09, 2013 11:53 am

Nacho,

Ideally i would like my FH to be a lot more creative ball in hand than Farrell is. However Burns this season hasnt been the player he was last season...(even Glos fans admit that) so hasnt warranted replacing the consitant Farrell. Ford is in his first season with Bath, and by all accounts showing some great stuff.

Lancaster (generally, there have been exceptions) has a policy that players must show a consistently high level of performance for at least 6 months +, before they are considered. Ie A flash in the pan couple of performances wont get you a cap. So if Ford can keep this performance up and Burns can find his form / game then they will definately be considered. Burns kicking is letting him down at the moment.

For me farrell is at 10 or nowhere. At 12 id rather have Twelvetrees, Eastmond, Burrell etc.

by Nachos Jones Mon Dec 09, 2013 12:02 pm

Geordie,

Decent points but these lads do deserve a chance at the highest level. For years Ireland had a problem with ROG being the only 10 in contention and were so dependant on him and wrapped him up in cotton wool because nobody else was given the chance to shine. Now Ireland have bled a few 10's (Jackson and Madigan) so there is no real worry if Sexton gets injured or falls out of form.

I just think that by having Farrell at 10, it stifles a potentially very attacking England backline as he is unable to get his backs into good positions and run good lines. A couple of the young lads (should Flood no longer be considered) is a must now for England before they fall into the same problems that Ireland had in the 00's.

by Geordie Mon Dec 09, 2013 12:14 pm

Oh i agree they both need looked at again. Obviously Burns got a little run out in the Summer tour.

I also dont agree with Lancaster constantly putting Flood on for the last ten mins at 12. Just dont see the point.

by Toadfish Mon Dec 09, 2013 12:15 pm

I'd say we are in great shape at the moment with regards to fly half. Experienced young guy as number 1, very experienced backup as number 2 (Flood), number 3 with a few caps who has been in and around the squad for a while (Burns) and a very young guy in Ford who is up and coming. Pays to remember that Flood hasn't gone anywhere yet so this is the hand Lancaster has been dealt and is playing with. If Flood moves on the situation changes a bit and then he'll probably want to get his number 2 playing a bit but can't see this really being an issue. Any examples of other countries playing their 3rd/4th choice fly half’s just to get them some experience i.e. not because of injury/form etc?

Quite touched at how concerned you are about our fly half situation, really warms the heart. Have to say though that when a Welsh and Irishman are trying to talk you out of playing Farrell at 10 it's probably all the evidence I need that we've got the right man!

by yappysnap Mon Dec 09, 2013 12:28 pm

Not sure why so many people are getting excited about Ford currently. He kicks more then Farrell and now doesn't make any breaks with that pace of his. You think that'll suddenly change playing for England?!

Stick with Mr dependable at 10 and get some more x factor outside him. That's what'll make us stronger.

by Geordie Mon Dec 09, 2013 12:37 pm

yappysnap wrote:Not sure why so many people are getting excited about Ford currently. He kicks more then Farrell and now doesn't make any breaks with that pace of his. You think that'll suddenly change playing for England?!

Stick with Mr dependable at 10 and get some more x factor outside him. That's what'll make us stronger.

I think you've pretty much summed up the ideas of the England coaching team there Yappy...

by yappysnap Mon Dec 09, 2013 12:42 pm

Nothing wrong with it though Geordie. Guys like 36 and Brown are already having a positive effect. Get a better 13 in there and another dangerous wing and we'll look a whole lot more threatening.

by Geordie Mon Dec 09, 2013 12:45 pm

No nothing wrong at all. He's the solid consistant player to control the game. And he does have a little bit more skill than i often give him credit for. His passing is not bad.

Add in those creative players, and get farrell standing a little flatter and things might happen..

by maestegmafia Mon Dec 09, 2013 4:59 pm

Toadfish wrote:I'd say we are in great shape at the moment with regards to fly half. Experienced young guy as number 1, very experienced backup as number 2 (Flood), number 3 with a few caps who has been in and around the squad for a while (Burns) and a very young guy in Ford who is up and coming. Pays to remember that Flood hasn't gone anywhere yet so this is the hand Lancaster has been dealt and is playing with. If Flood moves on the situation changes a bit and then he'll probably want to get his number 2 playing a bit but can't see this really being an issue. Any examples of other countries playing their 3rd/4th choice fly half’s just to get them some experience i.e. not because of injury/form etc?

Quite touched at how concerned you are about our fly half situation, really warms the heart. Have to say though that when a Welsh and Irishman are trying to talk you out of playing Farrell at 10 it's probably all the evidence I need that we've got the right man!

Trust me if you are playing Wales we are very happy to see you pick Farrell over Flood, Burns, Ford, Hodgson or Wilkinson, I would rate all of those as far more worrying players for an opposition fan.

by Toadfish Mon Dec 09, 2013 5:28 pm

maestegmafia wrote:
Toadfish wrote:I'd say we are in great shape at the moment with regards to fly half. Experienced young guy as number 1, very experienced backup as number 2 (Flood), number 3 with a few caps who has been in and around the squad for a while (Burns) and a very young guy in Ford who is up and coming. Pays to remember that Flood hasn't gone anywhere yet so this is the hand Lancaster has been dealt and is playing with. If Flood moves on the situation changes a bit and then he'll probably want to get his number 2 playing a bit but can't see this really being an issue. Any examples of other countries playing their 3rd/4th choice fly half’s just to get them some experience i.e. not because of injury/form etc?

Quite touched at how concerned you are about our fly half situation, really warms the heart. Have to say though that when a Welsh and Irishman are trying to talk you out of playing Farrell at 10 it's probably all the evidence I need that we've got the right man!

Trust me if you are playing Wales we are very happy to see you pick Farrell over Flood, Burns, Ford, Hodgson or Wilkinson, I would rate all of those as far more worrying players for an opposition fan.

Fair enough. Your coach on the other hand would rather pick Farrell over all those and your own incumbent fly half though so I'll tale your opinion with a pinch of salt.

by yappysnap Mon Dec 09, 2013 5:28 pm

maestegmafia wrote:
Toadfish wrote:I'd say we are in great shape at the moment with regards to fly half. Experienced young guy as number 1, very experienced backup as number 2 (Flood), number 3 with a few caps who has been in and around the squad for a while (Burns) and a very young guy in Ford who is up and coming. Pays to remember that Flood hasn't gone anywhere yet so this is the hand Lancaster has been dealt and is playing with. If Flood moves on the situation changes a bit and then he'll probably want to get his number 2 playing a bit but can't see this really being an issue. Any examples of other countries playing their 3rd/4th choice fly half’s just to get them some experience i.e. not because of injury/form etc?

Quite touched at how concerned you are about our fly half situation, really warms the heart. Have to say though that when a Welsh and Irishman are trying to talk you out of playing Farrell at 10 it's probably all the evidence I need that we've got the right man!

Trust me if you are playing Wales we are very happy to see you pick Farrell over Flood, Burns, Ford, Hodgson or Wilkinson, I would rate all of those as far more worrying players for an opposition fan.

by sirtidychris Mon Dec 09, 2013 5:45 pm

yappysnap wrote:Not sure why so many people are getting excited about Ford currently. He kicks more then Farrell and now doesn't make any breaks with that pace of his. You think that'll suddenly change playing for England?!

Stick with Mr dependable at 10 and get some more x factor outside him. That's what'll make us stronger.

Bath have been blighted by horrible, horrible playing conditions this year, where kicking the leather off the ball for a big pack to play territorial rugby with is the best gameplan and has resulted in us winning ugly. Ford has however been immense meaning he has been nominated for AP player of the month in september and now again in November, he has been nailing his kicks and in the november we have had some better conditions and he's shown what he can do with ball in hand. He's a versitile little git and he's getting better with every game, with pundits and coaches from all over the sport lauding him.

by broadlandboy Mon Dec 09, 2013 5:58 pm

Flood is hindered because his style doesn't suit the way Lancaster has chosen for England. He tends to release his backs, playing at the gain line, he needs someone on his shoulder when he makes half breaks. It isn't strange that Ashton had his better games with Flood at 10 as he came off his wing onto Floods half breaks.

by yappysnap Mon Dec 09, 2013 6:46 pm

sirtidychris wrote:
yappysnap wrote:Not sure why so many people are getting excited about Ford currently. He kicks more then Farrell and now doesn't make any breaks with that pace of his. You think that'll suddenly change playing for England?!

Stick with Mr dependable at 10 and get some more x factor outside him. That's what'll make us stronger.

Bath have been blighted by horrible, horrible playing conditions this year, where kicking the leather off the ball for a big pack to play territorial rugby with is the best gameplan and has resulted in us winning ugly. Ford has however been immense meaning he has been nominated for AP player of the month in september and now again in November, he has been nailing his kicks and in the november we have had some better conditions and he's shown what he can do with ball in hand. He's a versitile little git and he's getting better with every game, with pundits and coaches from all over the sport lauding him.

Cheers for the info Chris. Is the pitch in bad nick then at the Rec? Can't disagree with how Ford plays for Bath as it is def working. I just find it odd all the calls for him when he's playing pretty much straight out of the Farrell play book (although that would make it easy for him to slot in to the Eng 10 position).

by Nachos Jones Mon Dec 09, 2013 6:50 pm

broadlandboy wrote:Flood is hindered because his style doesn't suit the way Lancaster has chosen for England. He tends to release his backs, playing at the gain line, he needs someone on his shoulder when he makes half breaks. It isn't strange that Ashton had his better games with Flood at 10 as he came off his wing onto Floods half breaks.

Really agree with this. Its why I said that Flood has been a little let down by England. I really do believe that England have a strong pack that easily get on the front foot and if they had a more dynamic 10 that could organise his backs better then they would be one hell of a side.

by yappysnap Mon Dec 09, 2013 6:54 pm

Nachos Jones wrote:
broadlandboy wrote:Flood is hindered because his style doesn't suit the way Lancaster has chosen for England. He tends to release his backs, playing at the gain line, he needs someone on his shoulder when he makes half breaks. It isn't strange that Ashton had his better games with Flood at 10 as he came off his wing onto Floods half breaks.

Really agree with this. Its why I said that Flood has been a little let down by England. I really do believe that England have a strong pack that easily get on the front foot and if they had a more dynamic 10 that could organise his backs better then they would be one hell of a side.

The problem is that Flood is almost as easy to defend as Farrell, he isn't quick but attacks the line directly and is pretty easily man handled by the defence. His best games were where Youngs was on fire and had already torn up the opposition defence, then Floods flat positional play really helped. Also he doesn't organise his backs too well or kick from hand well. Really it's an on form Youngs we want thinking about it.

by ChequeredJersey Mon Dec 09, 2013 7:12 pm

Plus you can pretty much guarantee Flood will pop the inside pass once per half, I'm surprised he doesn't have many international interceptions. It's great because Ashton etc (or Wade. Or Brown. It's a nice weapon to have) can run onto it, but it's predictable and you can call when it's going to be used. Though it may have been more a Johnsonism than a Floodism I suppose

by yappysnap Mon Dec 09, 2013 7:36 pm

I was just thinking about that inside pass too. I think he tries it quite a lot for Tigers as well. Although the opposition have usually been brutally man shamed by the Leic pack before he gets the ball so the results may be different.

by maestegmafia Fri Dec 20, 2013 1:31 pm

The Telegraph

"England fly-half Toby Flood seals move to Toulouse from Leicester Tigers at end of the season"

BBC

"Flood denies he has signed for Toulouse"
"Leicester's England fly-half Toby Flood says he will make a decision on his future in January following speculation he is joining Toulouse."

by Geordie Fri Dec 20, 2013 1:43 pm

So the deal is done then...presumably announced once Burns deal to Tigers is confirmed...

by Scrumpy Fri Dec 20, 2013 1:47 pm

Done deal then.

Nice move for him hope it works out.

by maestegmafia Fri Dec 20, 2013 3:05 pm

GeordieFalcon wrote:So the deal is done then...presumably announced once Burns deal to Tigers is confirmed...

Considering his path to more caps seems blocked by the average at best Owen Farrell the move is an obvious one, but very sad to see. He has been a Tiger through and through and a much revered competitor for us rival fans.

Good luck to him.

by Scrumpy Fri Dec 20, 2013 3:09 pm

maestegmafia wrote:
GeordieFalcon wrote:So the deal is done then...presumably announced once Burns deal to Tigers is confirmed...

Considering his path to more caps seems blocked by the average at best Owen Farrell

Unnecessary cheap shot Mae!

Owen has an AB victory under his belt something many people have tried to get and failed. Wink

by maestegmafia Fri Dec 20, 2013 3:14 pm

Scrumpy wrote:
maestegmafia wrote:
GeordieFalcon wrote:So the deal is done then...presumably announced once Burns deal to Tigers is confirmed...

Considering his path to more caps seems blocked by the average at best Owen Farrell

Unnecessary cheap shot Mae!

Owen has an AB victory under his belt something many people have tried to get and failed.

So do 22 other players from the same team.

Why is that a cheap shot and at who....? I don't rate the player neither do a lot of others, of all nations including many many Englishmen.

by Scrumpy Fri Dec 20, 2013 3:18 pm

Or are you just Anti English and saw a chance to knock one of our young players?

It was unnecessary.

Merry Crimbo Toby Flood thinking of giving up England ambitions and moving to France. - Page 2 3513163098

Toby Flood thinking of giving up England ambitions and moving to France. - Page 2 3513163098

by beshocked Fri Dec 20, 2013 4:19 pm

Scrumpy I completely understand you being frustated with maestegmafia. Don't forget he's an anti-English WUM.

He's still upset that his beloved Ospreys 10 Biggar didn't make it on the Lions tour, instead he was part of the humiliating loss to Japan.

by yappysnap Fri Dec 20, 2013 6:29 pm

Funny and true.

All the best to Flood. Hopefully he'll tear it up at Toulouse for the next few seasons, what a fantastic club to go to.

by maestegmafia Fri Dec 20, 2013 11:50 pm

You lot are pathetic. All you want to do is stir everyone up...!

About time you grew up...!

by lostinwales Sat Dec 21, 2013 12:32 am

There was another thread recently where MM repeatedly asked an english poster why he was posting on a welsh thread.

I think the irony goes flying way way above his head

by maestegmafia Sat Dec 21, 2013 12:20 pm

lostinwales wrote:There was another thread recently where MM repeatedly asked an english poster why he was posting on a welsh thread.

I think the irony goes flying way way above his head

Makes me wonder how many user ids that poster is now using.

by Scrumpy Sat Dec 21, 2013 1:46 pm

I don't know why people respond to this joker, it's very clear he has another agenda.
steam

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