Richard Hibbard to Glaws !!!!!

Another one leaves Wales, Richard Hibbard is going to be playing for Gloucester next season, all the best to him, it looks as though the exodus is going to get worst before it gets better. 

Is this confirmed now or is it still rumour?

Confirmed this morning. Sky News reporting it as a done deal, been rumoured for a few weeks. Guess Glaws had to make a positive announcement after another home loss at the weekend.

Fully confirmed http://www.gloucesterrugby.co.uk/news/9442.php#.Uq64btJdU4h

This season is a total write off, so I look forward to seeing a front row of Wood, Hibbard and Afoa next year

Thats going to be quite a pack...

Wood
Hibbard
Afoa
Stooke
?
Kalama..(SP)
Kvesic / Qera
Morgan

GeordieFalcon wrote:Thats going to be quite a pack...

Wood
Hibbard
Afoa
Stooke
?
Kalama..(SP)
Kvesic / Qera
Morgan

Qera is off to Toulouse in January Geordie. Still a formidable looking pack.

Lord, I would've drove him to Glos myself after his throwing in Fri night! lol. He's been a great player since Bennett left, as shame to lose him but Baldwins played well recently. Good luck rhino...

Ah hadnt seen that news about Qera. But yes still looks a decent pack...better than the shambles it is now...

Is Afoa going there as well? I take it back in that case, Davies looks like he may have SOME clue. Still think Hudson was a poor signing and they need another lock. They'll miss Qera too, may not be a classic 7 but he's been miles better than Kvesic.

Hood83 wrote:Is Afoa going there as well? I take it back in that case, Davies looks like he may have SOME clue. Still think Hudson was a poor signing and they need another lock. They'll miss Qera too, may not be a classic 7 but he's been miles better than Kvesic.

Yes we miss big Jim, but speculation is he may come back from France, Glos will be on his shortlist. He's a Swindon Scot, so Glos is nearer to his home town.

GeordieFalcon wrote:Thats going to be quite a pack...

Wood
Hibbard
Afoa
Stooke
?
Kalama..(SP)
Kvesic / Qera
Morgan

Not sure you can call it a great pack when you can't even name 8 players in a starting pack let alone talk about depth!

I still think they are quite far from the likes of Quins,Bath,Saints,Sarries and Leicester in terms of a pack. Haven't got the strength in depth either.

There's never a guarantee high profile players will perform for their new club - just look at Racing Metro!

I think if Gloucester believe that signing two high profile frontrow players will automatically make their pack one of the best in the AP are sadly mistaken.

Why would he want to play for Glocester? Its a very unambitious move. Its a nice place, a team I like and Im sure a wage rise but really wish some of these Welsh guys would stay in Wales for the good of the domestic game.

Gunsgerms Gloucester have a Welsh coach, plus they are probably paying him a nice salary, also Gloucester isn't that far away from Wales. Perhaps Hibbard wants to try out his efforts in the AP? Different league, new challenge. Gloucester do also have decent levels of support despite not currently doing well.

beshocked wrote:Gunsgerms Gloucester have a Welsh coach, plus they are probably paying him a nice salary, also Gloucester isn't that far away from Wales. Perhaps Hibbard wants to try out his efforts in the AP? Different league, new challenge. Gloucester do also have decent levels of support despite not currently doing well.

I do understand the merits of signing for them. I like the club myself too. If I was to move to England they would be in my top three teams to support because of how close they are to the majority of my cousins in England however, it just in my opinion isnt great for Welsh rugby to see so many good players moving to teams that are no better than the Welsh team they play for but just richer.

beshocked wrote:

GeordieFalcon wrote:Thats going to be quite a pack...

Wood
Hibbard
Afoa
Stooke
?
Kalama..(SP)
Kvesic / Qera
Morgan

Not sure you can call it a great pack when you can't even name 8 players in a starting pack let alone talk about depth!

I still think they are quite far from the likes of Quins,Bath,Saints,Sarries and Leicester in terms of a pack. Haven't got the strength in depth either.

There's never a guarantee high profile players will perform for their new club - just look at Racing Metro!

I think if Gloucester believe that signing two high profile frontrow players will automatically make their pack one of the best in the AP are sadly mistaken.

Get out on the wrong side of the bed this morning B?

Im sure i said....thats GOING to be quite a pack...did i not? You can add Savage and a few others.

You've heard the rumours, Guns. The WRU have been whispering in the players' ears.

No it's not good for Welsh rugby but I can see why the players are moving.

Well actually I would say Saints (where North went to) are better than all the Welsh regions.

Gloucester might not be better in terms of current form but they have a longer history, tradition and better attendances than the Welsh regions.

The AP is still perceived as a higher intensity league than the Pro12. It's a desirable league for players to take part in.

The Welsh regions don't have that long term security or backing behind them that makes players feel happy. The emphasis in Wales has always been on the international game not the club game. It's no surprise Welsh players want to go to clubs with greater tradition and bigger support and more money.

I don't think the Welsh players feel that the regions are on an upwards curve which is a shame.

GeordieFalcon wrote:

beshocked wrote:

GeordieFalcon wrote:Thats going to be quite a pack...

Wood
Hibbard
Afoa
Stooke
?
Kalama..(SP)
Kvesic / Qera
Morgan

Not sure you can call it a great pack when you can't even name 8 players in a starting pack let alone talk about depth!

I still think they are quite far from the likes of Quins,Bath,Saints,Sarries and Leicester in terms of a pack. Haven't got the strength in depth either.

There's never a guarantee high profile players will perform for their new club - just look at Racing Metro!

I think if Gloucester believe that signing two high profile frontrow players will automatically make their pack one of the best in the AP are sadly mistaken.

Get out on the wrong side of the bed this morning B?

Im sure i said....thats GOING to be quite a pack...did i not? You can add Savage and a few others.

No geordiefalcon. I just don't adhere to the hype of two decent signings. Case in point it hasn't worked for Racing Metro.

You say that's going to be quite a pack.... well they need to add about 3-4 top class players then you might have a point in my opinion.....

beshocked wrote:
The AP is still perceived as a higher intensity league than the Pro12. It's a desirable league for players to take part in.

Thats the perception in England but not necessarly true of course. Thats not something that can be quantified at all except by looking at how each leagues teams fair against eachother and over time it has been fairly even. Realistically it is only desirable for financial reasons because even if Glocester were good enough to qualify for the Hcup there probably wont be any English teams in it next year anyway.

Gunsgerms you might say it's not necessarily true but if that's the perception with players..... also there is the perception that the bread and butter in Wales are international matches.

Well actually it can be quantified - about 120 players from the Pro12 are missing during the IWs compared to around 30 in the AP.....

I know you seem to be under that view that to move to the AP, it's just about money. It's not. Hibbard will be playing for a club with more history and higher attendance. Regions still struggle to find that sense of identity, Gloucester definitely have a sense of identity.

No geordiefalcon. I just don't adhere to the hype of two decent signings

Two decent signings in positions that they are in dire need...the rest of the pack can be good with a solid front row. Then that will give everyone a chance to finally see if their backs are as good as some think or as bad as you think.

Is anyone major out of contract apart from Burns? Those are two pretty big signings to make without a compromise elsewhere. I assume one of them will be the marquee player, but that will still just bring whoever the current on is into the cap.

beshocked wrote:Gunsgerms you might say it's not necessarily true but if that's the perception with players..... also there is the perception that the bread and butter in Wales are international matches.

Well actually it can be quantified - about 120 players from the Pro12 are missing during the IWs compared to around 30 in the AP.....

I know you seem to be under that view that to move to the AP, it's just about money. It's not. Hibbard will be playing for a club with more history and higher attendance. Regions still struggle to find that sense of identity, Gloucester definitely have a sense of identity.

Having a sense of identity is nice but it isnt Hibbards identity. He is Welsh and would identify more with his own regions no matter how short a history they have. Thats not a factor.

Where did you get the figure of 120 and how does that prove that the AP is more intense a league?

GeordieFalcon wrote:

No geordiefalcon. I just don't adhere to the hype of two decent signings

Two decent signings in positions that they are in dire need...the rest of the pack can be good with a solid front row. Then that will give everyone a chance to finally see if their backs are as good as some think or as bad as you think.

Why does the frontrow have to be good for the rest of the team to perform? The scrum is just one area. What I hear is that Player X is playing badly because player Y is playing badly.... it's just an excuse, pretty poor one too.

Rugby is a squad game. You need good squads to win championships and tournaments.

I don't believe that two players albeit two decent ones will magically fix Gloucester's problems. That's even before you acknowledge that either one or both might get injured at some point.

I feel Gloucester's problems run deeper than just that. It's strength in depth as well as first choice pack players team need too.

Compare Leicester,Sarries or Saints pack depth to Gloucester's pack - big difference.

There are very few successful teams that have poor front rows Beshocked. That's not a coincidence.
j

GunsGerms wrote:

beshocked wrote:Gunsgerms you might say it's not necessarily true but if that's the perception with players..... also there is the perception that the bread and butter in Wales are international matches.

Well actually it can be quantified - about 120 players from the Pro12 are missing during the IWs compared to around 30 in the AP.....

I know you seem to be under that view that to move to the AP, it's just about money. It's not. Hibbard will be playing for a club with more history and higher attendance. Regions still struggle to find that sense of identity, Gloucester definitely have a sense of identity.

Having a sense of identity is nice but it isnt Hibbards identity. He is Welsh and would identify more with his own regions no matter how short a history they have. Thats not a factor.

Where did you get the figure of 120 and how does that prove that the AP is more intense a league?

Of course it's not Hibbard's identity because he hasn't been at the club but I am sure Davies will have given an idea of what to expect at Gloucester. I am not a Gloucester fan you'll have to ask them what the perks are. I know the perks of my own AP team.

Just an estimation of course but Let's say that Ireland lose 30 players to IW, Scotland lose 30 players, Wales lose 30 players and Italy 30 players - that's 120 of their best players not available for their clubs/regions during IWs. This means you have teams shorn of their best players facing off - 2nd or 3rd string sides....

In comparison in the AP because there are 12 teams, they lose 30 players to England, this means that sides like Sale and Exeter will still be at close to full strength during IWs making for tougher matches. Plus the AP has better attendances than the Pro12 which be another perk.

beshocked wrote:

GeordieFalcon wrote:

No geordiefalcon. I just don't adhere to the hype of two decent signings

Two decent signings in positions that they are in dire need...the rest of the pack can be good with a solid front row. Then that will give everyone a chance to finally see if their backs are as good as some think or as bad as you think.

Why does the frontrow have to be good for the rest of the team to perform? The scrum is just one area.  What I hear is that Player X is playing badly because player Y is playing badly.... it's just an excuse, pretty poor one too.

Rugby is a squad game. You need good squads to win championships and tournaments.

I don't believe that two players albeit two decent ones will magically fix Gloucester's problems. That's even before you acknowledge that either one or both might get injured at some point.

I feel Gloucester's problems run deeper than just that. It's strength in depth as well as first choice pack players team need too.

Compare Leicester,Sarries or Saints pack depth to Gloucester's pack - big difference.

In the case of Leicester and Saints the big difference is squad size (your point) and the quality of the front-rows (Geordie's point) I think you're both right. They probably haven't the depth to win anything, but those signings SHOULD improve their first team no end. At the moment their front row is not good enough to compete, the rest of the team is. They can occasional summon a great performance but they are always on the back foot come scrum time. With Afoa and Hibbard this should happen far less, and give them an important platform.

Bathite wrote:There are very few successful teams that have poor front rows Beshocked. That's not a coincidence.
j

When Sarries won the AP final vs Leicester in 2011 we did not have the best frontrow. Our success has not been built upon a particularly strong front row, it's been the defence, lineout and breakdown work.

Wasps frontrow was never really that strong throughout all their success was it?

Having a decent frontrow is of course what you want but if you have other strengths...


Hood83 I agree it will strengthen the first team sure. I am sorry it sounds like I am being really negative. I think it's a step in the right direction for Gloucester but more work is needed. I feel that you focus too much on the frontrow you might fail to acknowledge that the likes of Morgan and Ksevic are underperforming.

Beshocked

Hibbard will be one of the players missing during the IWs, so won't be playing in the AP then anyway. Agree about the leagues, but that stat doesn't have any bearing on Hibbard himself.

Very true actually thomh. What do Gloucester plan to do at hooker when Hibbard is on international duty? That's one of the disadvantages of signing a current international from one of the home nations.

Also think about a side like Saints, they brought in Corbisiero as a high profile scrummager yet he's barely played for them.

Afoa is much handier because he will be available all year round.

It's dangerous to rely on a player or two to be available because if they are not.....

beshocked wrote:

Bathite wrote:There are very few successful teams that have poor front rows Beshocked. That's not a coincidence.
j

When Sarries won the AP final vs Leicester in 2011 we did not have the best frontrow. Our success has not been built upon a particularly strong front row, it's been the defence, lineout and breakdown work.

Wasps frontrow was never really that strong throughout all their success was it?

Having a decent frontrow is of course what you want but if you have other strengths...


Hood83 I agree it will strengthen the first team sure. I am sorry it sounds like I am being really negative. I think it's a step in the right direction for Gloucester but more work is needed. I feel that you focus too much on the frontrow you might fail to acknowledge that the likes of Morgan and Ksevic are underperforming.

Agreed. I'm a Falcons fan anyway so don't pretend to know much about Glos. I thought their pack last year looked well coach in terms of intensity, but lacked quality in the tight-five. This year they seem to have gone backwards, or perhaps others have stepped up?

thomh wrote:Is anyone major out of contract apart from Burns? Those are two pretty big signings to make without a compromise elsewhere. I assume one of them will be the marquee player, but that will still just bring whoever the current on is into the cap.

Hibbard and Afoa joining have almost certainly signalled the end of Edmonds and Cowan. Qera has gone and Olly Morgan has retired; so the 4 of them will free up a huge wedge of cash. Sharples and Sinbad are both out of contract and there is strong speculation that only 1 will be retained, which will be a big mistake in my opinion.

It has been made clear we shall have more signings coming our way. It sounds extremely likely that we will be signing a lock and at least a few more front row players (partly to replace out going, as I'd also expect Harden to leave and James to retire).

Beshocked, I do think 2 big name front row player will make us immeasurably better. Our backrow is very strong, even with Q leaving, but there is only so much they can do when on constant back foot ball. Having a bit of grunt to ensure more front foot ball will make a huge difference. At present, with the exception of yesterday, we've just not had any kind of platform to play from and there is only so much you can rely on broken field tries. Most teams have correctly just not given us any opportunities as they can control territory. This is what made yesterday so disappointing as we finally had the dominant pack and then the backs decide to muck it up!

beshocked wrote: I don't believe that two players albeit two decent ones will magically fix Gloucester's problems. That's even before you acknowledge that either one or both might get injured at some point.

I feel Gloucester's problems run deeper than just that. It's strength in depth as well as first choice pack players team need too.

Bearing in mind the problems with Glocs have been up front, specifically the power game being brought by the front 5 in both t the tight and loose, how can signing 2 of the most dynamic/powerful front row players playing in the NH be considered just decent? And that they wont go well towards fixing Glocs problems? They wont magically fix them, agreed, no 2 players will, but how can that not be one of the best steps in the transfer market that any team has made in the past few seasons towards addressing there problem areas? I think I got hung up on the word decent, its just, if thats only decent, I dont know what 2 signings would be any better?!

Comfort  
Agree.    Glaws need bolstering exactly where Davies is doing it with these signings. For once this season, Davies does something worth applauding, but it will not help our current woes. 

GT, Im not a huge fan of Davies, but if my side (the blues) had made these 2 signings I'd be dancing for joy. I rate both players extremely highly and they both make a big impression in the loose. Very good signings in my eyes, add some decent depth behind those and perhaps another big powerful lock and the pack will be transformed, I'd expect you'd start seeing better performances from the backrow too.

Maybe its just me, as a fan of a side with huge weakness up front, who's never seen it remedied, its reassuring to see a side splash out on known quality to solve said problem.

Are we likely to see an all exiles Wales 1st XV come the 6N?

James
Hibbard
Mitchell
Davies
Gough/Charteris
Lydiate
?
Delve

Phillips
Hook
Brew
Roberts
Davies
North
Byrne

With Halfpenny, Warburton, Priestland and Davies also rumoured, i think we can safely say yes!

Bathite wrote:James
Hibbard
Mitchell
Davies
Gough/Charteris
Lydiate
?
Delve

Phillips
Hook
Brew
Roberts
Davies
North
Byrne

I think we can safely say no.

Bathite wrote:James
Hibbard
Mitchell
Davies
Gough/Charteris
Lydiate
?
Delve

Phillips
Hook
Brew
Roberts
Davies
North
Byrne

With Halfpenny, Warburton, Priestland and Davies also rumoured, i think we can safely say yes!

That's scary. The sinking ship?

That's no joke, that can't be good for Welsh rugby to have pretty much every first choice player outside the country, Argentina and Samoa must be the only other top 12 nations in the same boat. Incredible.

London Welsh, back to the future.
It just requires a bunch of wealthy Welsh businessmen to take them over and do an Irish.
Meanwhile Glaws will be happy to sponsor Hibbard.

Bathite wrote:James
Hibbard
MitchellAdam Jones
Ian Evans
Charteris
Lydiate
Warburton
Delve

Phillips
Priestland
1/2p
Roberts
Davies
North
Byrne

Amended this to include the rumours. surely this team would beat those left at home?

I hear Davies is looking to sign his boy Sam from the Ospreys, maybe a prelude to Burns leaving for Leicester as rumoured.

With regard to player leaving Wales, IMO the fact of having four regions limits our ability to allow our youngsters the chance to gain game time if said established player stay`s put.

Someone like J.Davies playing next to Fofana on a regular basis will not reduce his skills but increase, in his place currently we have seen S.Williams thrive at regional and Wales level with the potential to move ahead of both Davies and Roberts by 2015.

Roberts left for Paris, Cory Allen, a strapping 6ft 4 inch, 17 stone, 7`s player stepped up at regional level and also made his debut with some impact for Wales.

If the player ensure`s a full release package, then no issues. Win, Win.

beshocked wrote:Gunsgerms Gloucester have a Welsh coach, plus they are probably paying him a nice salary, also Gloucester isn't that far away from Wales. Perhaps Hibbard wants to try out his efforts in the AP? Different league, new challenge. Gloucester do also have decent levels of support despite not currently doing well.

I think you have made all the valid points. The thing to look with Hibbard is that he has been ten years with the Ospreys region that says a lot about his character, also he is 30, not 25/26 like Jon Davies / Roberts / Lydiate, so that's another major consideration to consider. He would have been looking to renew his contract which could possibly be his last, so the move to Glaws is a sensible and obvious for him. He probably is on a 3 year contract and possibly will be on £25-50k more a season, that's going to take him to 33 yrs old, location wise he is only about 90 mins away from his family home, and with an ambitious and well thought of coach like Nigel Davies who knows him well, he has a new challenge, ambition, but with a safety net there for him.

I think the Ospreys with an average 9,500 home gate (and you have to take in consideration Swansea City FC recent success) compared to Gloucester 13,500.... attendance is not a massive factor.

Well the other way to look at this is that whilst all their big expensive international players are learning new styles in different countries, Wales can continue to develope new starlets in the regions.
Strength in depth.

Comfort wrote:

beshocked wrote: I don't believe that two players albeit two decent ones will magically fix Gloucester's problems. That's even before you acknowledge that either one or both might get injured at some point.

I feel Gloucester's problems run deeper than just that. It's strength in depth as well as first choice pack players team need too.

Bearing in mind the problems with Glocs have been up front, specifically the power game being brought by the  front 5 in both t the tight and loose, how can signing 2 of the most dynamic/powerful front row players playing in the NH be considered just decent? And that they wont go well towards fixing Glocs problems? They wont magically fix them, agreed, no 2 players will, but how can that not be one of the best steps in the transfer market that any team has made in the past few seasons towards addressing there problem areas? I think I got hung up on the word decent, its just, if thats only decent, I dont know what 2 signings would be any better?!

I suppose it depends whether you think all of Gloucester's problem come from upfront. I don't think it is. I feel like the frontrow have been made scapegoats for the side failing as a whole.

We won't know how truly decent they are in a Gloucester shirt till they play. High profile signings does not mean they'll deliver. Jimmy Cowan for example is Gloucester's marquee signing yet has not delivered.

Ospreys average attendance is less than 8k. That's poor. Mind you, that's the Crapo league for you

What's the matter Toast? Give up of the Quins treads with them winning the last three games? Deciding to branch out? Good idea.

beshocked wrote:

Comfort wrote:

beshocked wrote: I don't believe that two players albeit two decent ones will magically fix Gloucester's problems. That's even before you acknowledge that either one or both might get injured at some point.

I feel Gloucester's problems run deeper than just that. It's strength in depth as well as first choice pack players team need too.

Bearing in mind the problems with Glocs have been up front, specifically the power game being brought by the  front 5 in both t the tight and loose, how can signing 2 of the most dynamic/powerful front row players playing in the NH be considered just decent? And that they wont go well towards fixing Glocs problems? They wont magically fix them, agreed, no 2 players will, but how can that not be one of the best steps in the transfer market that any team has made in the past few seasons towards addressing there problem areas? I think I got hung up on the word decent, its just, if thats only decent, I dont know what 2 signings would be any better?!

I suppose it depends whether you think all of Gloucester's problem come from upfront. I don't think it is. I feel like the frontrow have been made scapegoats for the side failing as a whole.

We won't know how truly decent they are in a Gloucester shirt till they play. High profile signings does not mean they'll deliver. Jimmy Cowan for example is Gloucester's marquee signing yet has not delivered.

This is curate's egg stuff... partly true. The front 5 got shoved around mercilessly early season, but whether through fitness or coaching have noticeably improved. Most fans agreed it was a problem, albeit oner that is slowly getting fixed. Cowan: his class shows, his enthusiasm maybe less evident. I like it when he is on the park, has some lovely quick smooth deftly timed & deliverd short passes. His box kicking is often less impressive.Vs Edinburh Sunday we had pack dominance, a Scots prop saw yellow, but we seemed clueless behind and out wide. Weather may have been marginally more Scottish than English, but there was no holistic teamwork by Glaws. Having 'fixed' the front 5 for now, we seem to have 1/2 back problems. Cowan wasn't playing, Tavis Knoyle ditheredm and Burns ? not sure he was playing although he was out on the paddock. Yes we still have problems to fix, but I am looking forward to the arrival of Hibbard and Afoa. Sadly I have less to look forward to thsi season.

gregortree wrote:This is curate's egg stuff... partly true. The front 5 got shoved around mercilessly early season, but whether through fitness or coaching have noticeably improved. Most fans agreed it was a problem, albeit oner that is slowly getting fixed. Cowan: his class shows, his enthusiasm maybe less evident. I like it when he is on the park, has some lovely quick smooth deftly timed & deliverd short passes.  His box kicking is often less impressive.Vs Edinburh Sunday we had pack dominance, a Scots prop saw yellow, but we seemed clueless behind and out wide. Weather may have been marginally more Scottish than English, but there was no holistic teamwork by Glaws. Having 'fixed' the front 5 for now, we seem to have 1/2 back problems. Cowan wasn't playing, Tavis Knoyle ditheredm  and Burns ? not sure he was playing although he was out on the paddock.  Yes we still have problems to fix, but I am looking forward to the arrival of Hibbard and Afoa. Sadly I have less to look forward to thsi season.

Relegation? Look at Saints and Quins.