The WRU v RRW Saga - What outcome would you prefere?

Just a poll to see what people think

If there are any options I have missed then feel free to make a suggestion

I know some of the options have a lot of grey areas like what league would a pro-club system have and what would happen to say Cardiff RFC if Cardiff Blues joined the Aviva but its there for discussion

Regards

2 regions moving to AP, with WRU setting up 2 new regions, at least, with players from the remaining 2?

Given that any continuation of the current setup would imply a common ground between the union and the regions I would be for it. What I would say is that if an agreement is reached but the regions still don't seem to appeal to the fans then it's pointless.

Munchkin wrote:2 regions moving to AP, with WRU setting up 2 new regions, at least, with players from the remaining 2?

Hmm thats an idea but which 2 regions (or pro-clubs as I call them) would move to the Aviva and which 2 would agree to be disbanded?

Steffan wrote:

Munchkin wrote:2 regions moving to AP, with WRU setting up 2 new regions, at least, with players from the remaining 2?

Hmm thats an idea but which 2 regions (or pro-clubs as I call them) would move to the Aviva and which 2 would agree to be disbanded?

If WRU can afford to buy out two of the four regions, then I would think they buy out Dragons, and Blues. Ospreys and Scarlets move on to AP as clubs.

This provides a player base for at least two new regions.

another WUM poll. congratulations.

clearly most regions fans preferred choice would be for the regions to play in the Anglo-Welsh league with the backing of WRU, retaining funding, international availability, and still having the chance of playing in HC.

but then you wouldnt want to put that as an option because this is nothing but a WUM, right?

quinsforever wrote:another WUM poll. congratulations.

clearly most regions fans preferred choice would be for the regions to play in the Anglo-Welsh league with the backing of WRU, retaining funding, international availability, and still having the chance of playing in HC.

but then you wouldnt want to put that as an option because this is nothing but a WUM, right?

Please explain in what way this is a WUM?

if the regions sign the new participation agreement it will be because they "have" to not because they "want" to.A recipe for future problems,same amount of funding = loss of players,underperforming in the HC,same old story.pointless imo,let them join the aviva,a decent quality league to play in and form two new well funded regions for the rabo an equally decent league,70centrally contracted players in the rabo and 150 approx playing in the aviva,plenty of tallent for the welsh squad to chose from,best of both worlds aviva games and rabo games for supporters to watch,over to you aviva let the regions/clubs in your supporters will enjoy the diversity.  

Ah ok. I do realise I have missed out an option. My bad. I had to write this a bit quick

Mods...please can you add an option of:

The current pro-clubs to move into the Aviva Premiership with the backing of the WRU

Also add an Other if its possible

Thanks   

mr-bryns-attitude wrote:if the regions sign the new participation agreement it will be because they "have" to not because they "want" to.A recipe for future problems,same amount of funding = loss of players,underperforming in the HC,same old story.pointless imo,let them join the aviva,a decent quality league to play in and form two new well funded regions for the rabo an equally decent league,70centrally contracted players in the rabo and 150 approx playing in the aviva,plenty of tallent for the welsh squad  to chose from,best of both worlds aviva games and rabo games for supporters to watch,over to you aviva let the regions/clubs in your supporters will enjoy the diversity.  

If this did happen then what would happen to Cardiff RFC (and possibly Llanelli and Newport). The WRU could say to them...'Well you decided to leave us so dont expect us to allow you keep a semi-pro team in Wales' therefore possibly Cardiff RFC enter the Aviva but call themselves Cardiff Blues. And if the WRU did allow Cardiff RFC to play in a Welsh semi-pro league would they be a feeder team for the Blues or one of the newly founded Welsh regions? I find it unlikley though that WRU would allow Cardiff PLC to have a club in England (they would no longer be a Welsh region if they joined the Aviva without the WRUs backing) and a club in Wales

quinsforever wrote:another WUM poll. congratulations.

clearly most regions fans preferred choice would be for the regions to play in the Anglo-Welsh league with the backing of WRU, retaining funding, international availability, and still having the chance of playing in HC.

but then you wouldnt want to put that as an option because this is nothing but a WUM, right?

Its now available as an option and its the one I have voted for.

Seagultaf wrote:

quinsforever wrote:another WUM poll. congratulations.

clearly most regions fans preferred choice would be for the regions to play in the Anglo-Welsh league with the backing of WRU, retaining funding, international availability, and still having the chance of playing in HC.

but then you wouldnt want to put that as an option because this is nothing but a WUM, right?

Its now available as an option and its the one I have voted for.

Nice one mate. Hopefully this will shut 'quinsforever' up. That guy really has it in for me

Thanks to the mods as well for updating it   

Despite what 'quinsforever' with his vendetta against me says it was just something that I wrote in a rush and didnt cover all the options. Hopefully all the realistic ones are now covered. Personally I would go with option 4 as long as the pro-clubs went into the English Premiership as clubs and not pretend regions and the WRU sets up their own regions in Wales to play in the Rabo. Just my opinion though

Regards

Munchkin made an interesting point above.
It would be interesting to see what would happen if the regions split away form each other e.g. 2 stayed in the Rabo and two went to the Aviva. The two to stay in Wales would probably be Cardiff and Dragons with the Ospreys and Scarlet's either moving on to better or worse things.

Just to add, by all accounts on Scrum V later there is a decent look into the STANDOFF between RRW and WRU.

Gwyn Jones spoke very well and sensibly and thinks that central contracts are the way to go with the WRU running the game

Steven Jones the journalist seems to think rugby in Wales has a huge supporter base just waiting to turn up.

Nigel Davies pointed out how Soccer is taking many children away from rugby and fears it is going to get far worst as we keep on losing our top players

Allty wrote:Gwyn Jones spoke very well and sensibly and thinks that central contracts are the way to go with the WRU running the game

Steven Jones the journalist seems to think rugby in Wales has a huge supporter base just waiting to turn up.

Nigel Davies pointed out how Soccer is taking many children away from rugby and fears it is going to get far worst as we keep on losing our top players

I'll only give a response to 1 of your lines, the Regions ask the WRU for more money, the WRU ask the Regions can we ask the most REPUTABLE FINANCIAL FIRM in the UK, Price Waterhouse Cooper to look into it, the Regions give PWC FULL and Total access to their BOOKS. Some of their report has been leaked, one of their fundamental findings was that there should not be CENTRAL CONTRACTS as it was not the way to go and if they were to go down that route the WRU could NOT afford it and you think the Doc spoke sensibly?

I dont think any of us has seen the full PWC report.

wayne wrote:

Allty wrote:Gwyn Jones spoke very well and sensibly and thinks that central contracts are the way to go with the WRU running the game

Steven Jones the journalist seems to think rugby in Wales has a huge supporter base just waiting to turn up.

Nigel Davies pointed out how Soccer is taking many children away from rugby and fears it is going to get far worst as we keep on losing our top players

I'll only give a response to 1 of your lines, the Regions ask the WRU for more money, the WRU ask the Regions can we ask the most REPUTABLE FINANCIAL FIRM in the UK, Price Waterhouse Cooper to look into it, the Regions give PWC FULL and Total access to their BOOKS. Some of their report has been leaked, one of their fundamental findings was that there should not be CENTRAL CONTRACTS as it was not the way to go and if they were to go down that route the WRU could NOT afford it and you think the Doc spoke sensibly?

Try not to spin this.... It actually (according to the news reports) highly critical of the REGIONS financial acumen, not the WRUs.

The problem is the Regions are still be run in a very amateur way. Considering the money men have successful business empires, the way they run the regions surprises me.

I'm not saying the WRU are flawless, far far from it. But this is getting like children in the playground squabbling over who's gang you can join.

Both parties need to wake up and smell the rises, because between them they are going to totally destroy Welsh rugby.

Steven Jones the journalist seems to think rugby in Wales has a huge supporter base just waiting to turn up.

When? 4 titles in 8 yrs for the national side and crowds have been relatively the same. The players are treated as celebs and loved by the Welsh public yet the very same people cannot be arsed to go to the pro12 games! The bread n butter of the game. Now the big stars are leaving, they're not going to turn up now.

 F   ks me off no end...

Breadvan wrote:Steven Jones the journalist seems to think rugby in Wales has a huge supporter base just waiting to turn up.

When? 4 titles in 8 yrs for the national side and crowds have been relatively the same. The players are treated as celebs and loved by the Welsh public yet the very same people cannot be arsed to go to the pro12 games! The bread n butter of the game. Now the big stars are leaving, they're not going to turn up now.

 F   ks me off no end...

He also said the Irish haven't a clue about professional rugby and the Rabo needs meritocracy so the Irish sides can't rest their players for a month in between HEC games. That's the top three he means. Man's an idiot nothing more

No9 wrote:............The problem is the Regions are still be run in a very amateur way. Considering the money men have successful business empires, the way they run the regions surprises me.

I'm not saying the WRU are flawless, far far from it. But this is getting like children in the playground squabbling over who's gang you can join.

Both parties need to wake up and smell the rises, because between them they are going to totally destroy Welsh rugby.

From what I have seen, this is the best analysis of the situation that I have read anywhere.  The whole set-up is highly bizarre.  
The WRU sets up the Regions, but decide they do not want to pay for complete control (total central control and contracts), then make the Regions lives difficult when they exercise independent action.  
The Regions bring in decent businessmen who then struggle to manage their teams like businesses.  If the Regions were not going to be financially viable, the owners should have raised that at the beginning.  If they thought the Regions would be successful, and things have changed, then perhaps that is why we see the screaming now?  
In other words, The WRU and Regions are two separate businesses, which inevitably have different goals.  And the WRU and the Regions are surprised at each other's actions?  That is the most bizarre point of all.  

To destroy the Regions now, either quickly at the stroke of a pen, or slowly by strangling the money, will cause the WRU to lose all credibility with anyone they would ever look to for any financial deal in the future.  They would appear unreliable partners if things go awry.  For Welsh Regions to join the Premiership makes no sense because the Regions are supposed to be Welsh, not English.  And that would entail combining different business models in the Premiership, which would eventually fail and would be undermined by the WRU at every step.  It barely works in European Rugby and would be catastrophic in the English club game.  It would significantly damage the Pro12, which is bad for pro Rugby in Europe.  The current set-up is not perfect, but there is a form of balance.  This needs adjustment and strong pressure should be brought on the WRU and the Regions to get this fixed.   Each and every nation and league is guilty of too much short term thinking and are very myopic and parochial in their views and actions.

I watched that, Steven Jones hates the Irish so much! Its actually rather funny   

He thinks we're resting players for a month- imagine how good we'll be once we stop resting players every week! We already have three of the top four teams with that

Its embarrassing notch. He is at it again today apparently. It must hurt him the success of the provinces

Breadvan wrote:Steven Jones the journalist seems to think rugby in Wales has a huge supporter base just waiting to turn up.

When? 4 titles in 8 yrs for the national side and crowds have been relatively the same. The players are treated as celebs and loved by the Welsh public yet the very same people cannot be arsed to go to the pro12 games! The bread n butter of the game. Now the big stars are leaving, they're not going to turn up now.

 F   ks me off no end...

Thats it. I think provincial rugby would be under threat if we were getting the kind of crowds the welsh regions are getting. There's guys staying in Ireland because they turn up to Ravenhill or Thomond Park or the RDS, and its packed every week and they feel part of something. Something that is more than a team, its an integral part of their local community. That is a reason to say and the gate receipts don't hurt us either in terms of being able to pay for it.

So the WRU have to look at the regions and think- we don't have that. The regions have failed to provide it and there is a large fanbase that isn't engaged with regional rugby. How can we change that? I would say new regions will have the same problems as the old, tbh. But at least they can shed any association with the old clubs that makes Cardiff so toxic to Pontypridd etc.

Standulstermen wrote:Its embarrassing notch. He is at it again today apparently. It must hurt him the success of the provinces

The thing is, I looked at this when there was talk of only the top 6 in the Pro12 qualifying each year regardless of country. Since the league went to one table as opposed to provinces, there was just one year out of twelve Munster and Leinster wouldn't have qualified. Four years out of twelve Ulster wouldn't have qualified.

There's a lot more rotation for Ulster now than when we were out of the Top 6, because in that poor run of three seasons where we were in the wilderness we had very few Irish internationals. We didn't even have 15 decent players at the club so it was the same team every week pretty much. Actually it seems that the more successful a side is, the more international players they have and the more rotation they do. Rotation only happens when you have a lot of internationals and having a lot of internationals only happens when you have a quality academy and environment so thats not a surprise.

Stephen Jones is an utter tool.

He's always got a chip on his shoulder. It used to be Rugby League, then the All-Blacks and all things NZ. Now it seems to be the Irish.

Does anyone ever take anything he says seriously?

I dont think so.

I wonder where he gets his info from.

It was quite funny, in one camera shot S Jones was talking and you could see G Jones' face and I am sure he was thinking what the f... are you on about.

Steven Jones - "Ireland have no idea about professional rugby in my opinion ... "   Muppet!

I did agree with Gwyn on one point "Why can't the regions fill their stadia?"

Scarlets marketing budget - £0. That has a lot to do with it. The other big reasons: Football, games consoles, stupid kick off times, playing weakened teams (yes Ireland, it doesn't help), higgledy piggledy fixture list, parochial enmity towards Llanelli, Cardiff, Newport etc. Not all the regions fault granted but my goodness they have been pants at marketing themselves. Non-existent in many cases.

Big probs in Welsh rugby as PWC pointed out. Regions are dying any which way we look at it. Pull the plaster off quickly - get on with it. The sooner we start rebuilding the better.

What Gwyn said at the end is where I'm coming from. The regions are desperate and their backs are against the wall. An inevitable slide towards union control. Unless the benefactors say OK here's some more money, how can these regions continue? All the WRU have to do if the regions don't sign is say, OK, you're not going to represent wales in the PRO12 or HEC anymore. We're not giving you a penny more when the season ends. We will offer to contract enough players and support staff to put 2 or 3 new teams together. Thank you for all the good times. Bye bye.

I don't like the way this has been done. I'm going to be gutted when the Scarlets are no longer a top tier Welsh team. But I can't see how it is going to be otherwise. In fact if it makes rugby in Wales stronger, then we have to put our personal feelings to one side. I'll still be popping down to PYS to see them whoop Neef   I might even go and watch West Wales play Munster if they put decent sides out - on a saturday at 2.30 so I can have a pint of course   

I think Ulster have shown if you build it and push the region it will grow.

Is the strife between ponty and cardiff anywhere near as bad between comunities in Ulster. Once they started doing well they grew. They are building the fanbase not just the attendance. On all sides of Ulster.

Also many Ulster fans will say that the IRFU giving them less funding as they wouldn't get their financial house in order helped them to be built on a surer footing that is helping them now.

[quote="Totallybiasedscarlet"]Steven Jones - "Ireland have no idea about professional rugby in my opinion ... "   Muppet!


I think thats when Gwyn give him the ' what the f... you talking about' look lol

Brendan wrote:Also many Ulster fans will say that the IRFU giving them less funding as they wouldn't get their financial house in order helped them to be built on a surer footing that is helping them now.

Well, if we had the same funding as we have now when Michael Reid was CEO it would have been pished away, like all our budget was pished away for the entire professional era. It wouldn't have been used as well as it is being now that we have a hard-nosed businessman as CEO and a Director of Rugby with an eye for talent.

If you want to get serious about professional rugby, you get the right people running things first. The CEO is just about the most important person at any side. Leinster have been the top team in Europe over recent years because of Mick Dawson more than anyone else. Leinster always had a massive talent base to potentially tap into but when he came in they were a two-man and a dog operation working out of a portacabin at Donnybrook with limited appeal to rugby fans outside of the old school blazer set. The marketing department at Leinster are geniuses- they've managed to change Leinster from a team perceived as upper-middle class South Dublin snobs playing a game for upper middle class South Dublin snobs into a side where people are flocking to support them from areas of Leinster where rugby wasn't just not played a few years ago, it was actively considered an act of cultural treason to even watch a game!

The failure of the Welsh regions to sell the concept of professional rugby in a supposedly rugby mad country is atrocious compared to the job the Irish provinces have done in selling the game to a country where rugby was reviled outside certain small enclaves.

Gwyn Jones is one of the only pundits who seems smart enough to grasp the current situation and is able to speak anything approaching sense on the subject. I hope/wish to God there are at least some level heads like his on the administration side of things right now. Why the hell was Stephen Jones even on the show?! Never been on Scrum V as far as I know, and clearly wheeled out to sprout reactionary nonsense. The man is a poorly informed arse and having him on just seemed to discredit the RRW side of things.

MarcusHalberstram wrote:Gwyn Jones is one of the only pundits who seems smart enough to grasp the current situation and is able to speak anything approaching sense on the subject. I hope/wish to God there are at least some level heads like his on the administration side of things right now. Why the hell was Stephen Jones even on the show?! Never been on Scrum V as far as I know, and clearly wheeled out to sprout reactionary nonsense. The man is a poorly informed arse and having him on just seemed to discredit the RRW side of things.

It's the BBC's idea of 'balance'.

Brendan wrote:I think Ulster have shown if you build it and push the region it will grow.

Is the strife between ponty and cardiff anywhere near as bad between comunities in Ulster.  Once they started doing well they grew.  They are building the fanbase not just the attendance.  On all sides of Ulster.

Exactly if Ulster:
Can now have support that includes 25% Catholics (by a recent survey)
Can have East Belfast lads quite happy to fly a flag with Republican associations (the one with yellow in the corners)
Can double support in 5 years or so
Can go from fight Connacht for last place in the Pro12 to a top side in Europe in a similar period

Then surely to god the Welsh can get their act together.
Stop blaming others, get off your backside and work together

To follow up on the above the big missing of course is working together

The Regions and WRU don't get on and internal rivalries within the regions have never been resolved.
At the heart of this is the mistakes made when they were first set up.
Neath and Bridgend were prepared to set up together but were not allowed to.
Llanelli didn't want to share with anyone else and Cardiff only played lip service to sharing.

The WRU didn't have the balls to stare Llanelli and Cardiff down and the result was a dogs breakfast

geoff999rugby wrote:To follow up on the above the big missing of course is working together

The Regions and WRU don't get on and internal rivalries within the regions have never been resolved.
At the heart of this is the mistakes made when they were first set up.
Neath and Bridgend were prepared to set up together but were not allowed to.
Llanelli didn't want to share with anyone else and Cardiff only played lip service to sharing.

The WRU didn't have the balls to stare Llanelli and Cardiff down and the result was a dogs breakfast

Should never have been based on the clubs. The minute that was on the cards Cardiff said "stand alone" and WRU said "join Swansea." Scarlets had been bailed out, Swansea were bust, Scarlets said no thanks. WRU tried to force it - Scarlets forced the issue. I get why they did it and before anyone starts shooting me down 1. of course I'm going to back my club 2. they were all culpable for the mess (clubs and union).

Like I said, should never have been based on the clubs but I do remember the feeling at the time. We'd gone from 12 to 10 to 8 then 9 then 8 clubs in the prem. We were going down to 5. People were panicking about pro rugby. We all thought you needed more teams. We should have just looked at the Super 10/12 (whatever it was back then). If that was good enough for the best teams in the world, why wasn't it good enough for us?

We have to make the regional idea work. Our best fit is with Ireland and Scotland - that is the financial reality. Three nations who can afford a few regions each pooling together. I don't believe clubs and regions fit well together. That's at the heart of the mess in welsh rugby - it is also the cause of the tension in europe. Time to stop faffing about and put things right and everyone needs to agree and get behind it. Much negotiation and consultation needed methinks.

TBS, I think you're right there. I've got a feeling the WRU wanted to wait until 2020 before shaking things up massively. Pretty paid off the MS, the participation agreement runs out 2019 (if extended, not blocked). That would give them 5 years to plan.

No9 wrote:

wayne wrote:

Allty wrote:Gwyn Jones spoke very well and sensibly and thinks that central contracts are the way to go with the WRU running the game

Steven Jones the journalist seems to think rugby in Wales has a huge supporter base just waiting to turn up.

Nigel Davies pointed out how Soccer is taking many children away from rugby and fears it is going to get far worst as we keep on losing our top players

I'll only give a response to 1 of your lines, the Regions ask the WRU for more money, the WRU ask the Regions can we ask the most REPUTABLE FINANCIAL FIRM in the UK, Price Waterhouse Cooper to look into it, the Regions give PWC FULL and Total access to their BOOKS. Some of their report has been leaked, one of their fundamental findings was that there should not be CENTRAL CONTRACTS as it was not the way to go and if they were to go down that route the WRU could NOT afford it and you think the Doc spoke sensibly?

Try not to spin this.... It actually (according to the news reports) highly critical of the REGIONS financial acumen, not the WRUs.

The problem is the Regions are still be run in a very amateur way. Considering the money men have successful business empires, the way they run the regions surprises me.

I'm not saying the WRU are flawless, far far from it. But this is getting like children in the playground squabbling over who's gang you can join.

Both parties need to wake up and smell the rises, because between them they are going to totally destroy Welsh rugby.

The PWC report was commissioned and paid for by the WRU. He who pays the piper calls the tune, don't expect a balanced unbiased view. PWC will put a slant on any report to support their client, the WRU. I for one, am not at all surprised that it has not been published in full.

I said on another article that I do not think its totally fair to compare the provinces attendance growth with the regions.

In Ireland rugby was a minority sport and most fans at now at provincial games are new to rugby, recently converted, and wouldn't really have followed a club team. In Wales rugby was a popular sport and most fans already had a club, therefore to convince these fans to follow there club less and region more was always going to be more difficult.

For the regions to grow its not the club fans they need to be targeting but the masses of fans that follow the national team but don't attend regional or club games, as these are the fans that used to be in Ireland that are currently filling the provincial grounds.

But its very difficult to get them to attend when the perception in Wales is that the Pro 12 is a poor league, when Blues got to the semi's of the H-cup and won the Almin, I believe their crowds started growing, if this success had continued they may have grown to match the Provinces by now. Personally I don't think success in the Pro 12 appeals to the Welsh, as Ospreys attendance didn't grow as much as Blues did, and they won 3 League titles.

Wales need to follow NZ. Rugby mad country who had to join rivals together often looking similliar to the biggrr team. SA kind of did it too.

They should look how they did it and follow suit. They don't need a plan fake teams have been done before.

On attendances as there was only about 12 teams affected by region of which 4 were similar to the region its a non issue. Limerick with 60k has about 5 teams that are bitter rivals that have lost out to munster. And thats not even adding in the cork limerick hatred you get from being in school.

Kingshu wrote:I said on another article that I do not think its totally fair to compare the provinces attendance growth with the regions.

In Ireland rugby was a minority sport and most fans at now at provincial games are new to rugby, recently converted, and wouldn't really have followed a club team. In Wales rugby was a popular sport and most fans already had a club, therefore to convince these fans to follow there club less and region more was always going to be more difficult.

For the regions to grow its not the club fans they need to be targeting but the masses of fans that follow the national team but don't attend regional or club games, as these are the fans that used to be in Ireland that are currently filling the provincial grounds.

But its very difficult to get them to attend when the perception in Wales is that the Pro 12 is a poor league, when Blues got to the semi's of the H-cup and won the Almin, I believe their crowds started growing, if this success had continued they may have grown to match the Provinces by now. Personally I don't think success in the Pro 12 appeals to the Welsh, as Ospreys attendance didn't grow as much as Blues did, and they won 3 League titles.

To be fair attendances started getting better a couple of seasons ago. They've fallen again now ... I wonder why   

Get the grassroots on board by involving the fans and feeder clubs in a board of trustees or governors or something on those lines. Let them set the rugby direction of the regional team. Recruit decent financial & business managers to sort out the money side and market the teams around the regions. Let them simply be the representative side our local lads aspire to play for as pro players, the last step before playing for Wales. Don't paint them up in club colours.

If we do get new teams I see it as an opportunity to go to the Irish and Scots and look at the celtic league anew. Not that I think we should rip it up. I mean look at renewing commitments. Lets make sure we all put our strongest sides out in every game. Perhaps we could look at expanding it into 2 tiers of 8 and putting the development sides (Connacht, Zebre & N.Wales?) into the 2nd tier and invite some of the minor european nations to participate. That way we can argue the HEC gets the PRO12's (pro8+8?   ) strongest teams and put an end to the nonsense coming from the PRL. With just 14 games a season there's no excuses for resting players and many could turn out for clubs in the Welsh prem.

Ospreys season ticket holder here.

The current pro-clubs totally scrapped and new WRU regions to be brought in

That's my choice. I'm sick and tired of the ongoing and never ending war in Welsh rugby. It's a power struggle between who runs the Welsh game, and frankly the WRU have to be in control. Benefactors can only be allowed to have a say in the running of Welsh rugby providing they are bankrolling it, they aren't anymore so they aren't required and neither is their influence.

As a fan, if someone said to me you could support a single team representing South Wales at the Millenium stadium next season I would be there. With another professional team up North and a semi pro Welsh Premiership, I would be very happy.

Shifty wrote:Ospreys season ticket holder here.

The current pro-clubs totally scrapped and new WRU regions to be brought in

That's my choice.  I'm sick and tired of the ongoing and never ending war in Welsh rugby.  It's a power struggle between who runs the Welsh game, and frankly the WRU have to be in control.  Benefactors can only be allowed to have a say in the running of Welsh rugby providing they are bankrolling it, they aren't anymore so they aren't required and neither is their influence.

As a fan, if someone said to me you could support a single team representing South Wales at the Millenium stadium next season I would be there.  With another professional team up North and a semi pro Welsh Premiership, I would be very happy.

Professional rugby is all about money, it comes from; the money the regions earn from TV, advertising and competitions, team Wales TV money advertising and competition receipts and the generosity of the benefactors. Pro rugby is struggling desperately to survive in Wales at present, remove any one of these income streams and it will die. Welsh pro rugby (and pro rugby in England and France) relies in the generosity of the benefactors for it to survive.

If the WRU did relaunch new regions, would it make more sense to have only 3 teams instead of 4?

The 3 teams would be better funded, and therefore more likely to be successful, and as new identities, its success that will draw in supporters?

Well they're unlikely to have independent benefactors. The WRU can't afford much more of their own money until the MS is paid off. They'll get less TV money for three sides instead of 4. Overall it's unlikely they'll be better funded that the regions were with private backing. And that 'success' hardly drew massive crowds. Starting up 3 new regions would have the same problems the current ones have AND have disgruntalled regional supporters. It's going to take years to build up the required support, and I'm talking decades. Certainly not an easy fix.

HammerofThunor wrote:Well they're unlikely to have independent benefactors. The WRU can't afford much more of their own money until the MS is paid off. They'll get less TV money for three sides instead of 4. Overall it's unlikely they'll be better funded that the regions were with private backing. And that 'success' hardly drew massive crowds. Starting up 3 new regions would have the same problems the current ones have AND have disgruntalled regional supporters. It's going to take years to build up the required support, and I'm talking decades. Certainly not an easy fix.

Agreed and new regions would still suffer from the emphasis being on the national team with regards to player access, the 4th AI, 13 day rule etc.
(and paying off the MS earlier than is necessary, of course. Let us not forget this beaut.).

Seagultaf wrote:Professional rugby is all about money, it comes from; the money the regions earn from TV, advertising and competitions, team Wales TV money advertising and competition receipts and the generosity of the benefactors. Pro rugby is struggling desperately to survive in Wales at present, remove any one of these income streams and it will die. Welsh pro rugby (and pro rugby in England and France) relies in the generosity of the benefactors for it to survive.

It doesnt need benefactors in Ireland and the game is doing fine there!
The more I think about it the more it makes sense to have 2 regons North and South, with the South playing at the Millenium stadium. While you fund a properly semi pro Welsh premiership.