Ulster 2013/2014

First topic message reminder :

One guy I think deserves high praise from these two Treviso games is Sean Doyle.
As you know I reported some doubt about his future and that he needed to put his hand - he has done so big time.

Few more games like that and he will be with us next year for sure.

Just came across a fringe Sharks player called Justin Downey. The surname obviously caught my attention. Certainly doesn't sound Afrikaans. IQ perhaps?

Kankowski is taking the bucks in Japan, I'm sure he would prefer taking the bucks in Europe,

Geoff - you said the 2nd row would definitely be NIQ, any speculation on that? Saffer again?

Other than it will probably be a Saffer nothing more.

To be honest at this stage it is all highly speculative - the more substantial rumours will not come to light until the New Year.

I do not expect to be told anything, even in confidence, till January.

I suggest taking any name heard before then with a large pinch of salt.

Damn, I knew that guy telling me Richie McCaw was coming to Ravenhill was a bit suspect.

 

clivemcl wrote:Just came across a fringe Sharks player called Justin Downey. The surname obviously caught my attention. Certainly doesn't sound Afrikaans. IQ perhaps?

He might be IQ but thats feck all use if he is no good.   

profitius wrote:

clivemcl wrote:Just came across a fringe Sharks player called Justin Downey. The surname obviously caught my attention. Certainly doesn't sound Afrikaans. IQ perhaps?

He might be IQ but thats feck all use if he is no good.   

But who the hell was robbie Diack before we signed him?   

Newsletter claiming its 14000 capacity now which fits with the conversation I had with the ticket office on Tuesday. 1000 extra spots available now on the west terrace(prom) I believe.

Also claiming we will see a Black, Annett, Lutton front row with stevenson benching and Wilson available. Wallace and Payne in midfield it's claiming. Afoa is back in NZ and if all the above is true it looks like we might have a go at Leinster after all

I was told Stevenson was targeting the Leinster game - hopefully he is ok.

My surmise is that Lutton starting means Fitzpatrick is a definite for Leinster

Payne again at 13? - I continue to worry re fitness.

We are having a go against Leinster - front row of Court, Herring, Fitzpatrick and centres of Marshall, Cave not playing this week confirms that

Seems like Pienaer - McKinney this week and Marshall - Jackson next with
Pienaer - Jackson for Munster

Are we running the risk of underestimating zebre? Fitz was reported as being sick Geoff so he may have been in line to start

I think that side should be good enough to get 5 points, I'd be disappointed if it wasn't.

Re: Payne, he's not involved in any internationals so in theory should be ok to keep playing, I'm sure he won't do 80min - is he still having groin trouble though?

I don't think so - Pienaer, McKinney, Wallace, Payne, Trimble/Allen, Gilroy, Andrew is hardly a bad back line.
Also a decent enough front row.

If we are serious about trying to win against Leinster I think we are taking measured changes but retaining a core strength.

Payne was limping at home to Treviso.

I did not see a reoccurrence away but then again I did not see much at all   

geoff999rugby wrote:I don't think so - Pienaer, McKinney, Wallace, Payne, Trimble/Allen, Gilroy, Andrew is hardly a bad back line.

I'll say!

The back line talent we have is outrageous right now, even with Olding and Bowe injured. Luke Marshall has really come of age this year and Gilroy is starting to find his form again. Choosing who to leave out is a nightmare.

If Paynes groin is grand then to be honest gametime isn't the issue. He had a month with no rugby in November. Just hope it is grand as they didn't seem certain in between the treviso games

Someone told me Luke is the top Irish try scorer this season with 5. Is that right?

Wouldn't surprise me, he's on fire right now.

From the BT;

Belfast Telegraph wrote:With the home side's selection already likely to be somewhat altered from last week, Anscombe now looks as if he will also be without tight-head prop Declan Fitzpatrick due to illness and he is unable to call on John Afoa as he has just returned home to New Zealand.

This means a rare start for Ricky Lutton in the number three shirt, while back-up is likely to be provided by Adam Macklin. Lewis Stevenson could be back in the starting side's engine room while Niall Annett is believed to be a likely starter at hooker.

Paddy Wallace is expected to hook up with Jared Payne in midfield, allowing Ricky Andrew to slot in at full-back.

Afoa gone back to NZ- again. Hope there has been a reduction in his pay for this deal.

Luke Marshall is our leading try scorer, pretty sure. Funnily enough 4 out of his 5 tries have been against Treviso. Michael Allen is our top Pro12 try scorer with 3, Luke Marshall is our top HC try scorer with 3 and Marshall top overall with 5.

Ulster XV and replacements to face Zebre, RaboDirect PRO12, Ravenhill, Friday 20th December (kick off 19:05);

(15-9) R Andrew, C Gilroy, J Payne, P Wallace, M Allen, J McKinney, R Pienaar; (1-8): C Black, N Annett, R Lutton, J Muller (Captain), L Stevenson, M McComish, S Doyle, R Diack; Replacements (16-23): R Herring, T Court, A Macklin, N McComb, C Joyce, M Heaney, P Nelson, D McIlwaine

No Andrew Trimble, Darren Cave, Luke Marshall, Paddy Jackson, Roger Wilson (ankle), Dan Tuohy, John Afoa (NZ  ), Rob Herring or Tom Court.

Add to that the missing Tommy Bowe, Stuart Olding, Nick Williams, Chris Henry, Stephen Ferris, Iain Henderson, Declan Fitzpatrick and Rory Best and its pretty second string.

Looks like

Court, herring, Fitz, Tuohy, Stevenson, Diack, Doyle, Wilson, Marshall, Jackson, Gilroy, Marshall, Cave, Trimble, Payne? 

.... Might head to Leinster, without of course knowing how any injuries go in the meantime

Imagine we had this team out;

1) Tom Court
2) Rory Best
3) John Afoa
4) Iain Henderson
5) Dan Tuohy
6) Roger Wilson
7) Chris Henry
8) Nick Williams
9) Paul Marshall
10) Paddy Jackson
11) Andrew Trimble
12) Luke Marshall
13) Darren Cave
14) Tommy Bowe
15) Stuart Olding

We're getting close to having two good teams- hope this one we have out does the business!

Delighted to see Joyce, Heaney snd Nelson on the bench.

SUFTUM

SUFTCAB

Standulstermen wrote:Looks like

Court, herring, Fitz, Tuohy, Stevenson, Diack, Doyle, Wilson, Marshall, Jackson, Gilroy, Marshall, Cave, Trimble, Payne? 

.... Might head to Leinster, without of course knowing how any injuries go in the meantime

I reckon you are pretty close - hopefully one or more of Hendo, Henry and Williams might make the bench

Also very pleased to see Nelson. Macklin and Joyce on the bench

Nelson is a guy I really want to see kick on. It might be he has suffered from his versatility but he got his debut what seems like an age ago. I don't know if he is a 15, centre or wing but he needs to work on his defence (from the little I have seen in fairness)and decision making. I would start him at wing

Exciting looking backline, decent tight 5 but not a great looking back row, a bit lightweight with no recognised blindside.

Still would expect maximum points though.

Ah come on now. It's less than a week to Christmas. Surely it's reasonable for Afoa to go home to see his kids???

MrsP wrote:Ah come on now. It's less than a week to Christmas. Surely it's reasonable for Afoa to go home to see his kids???

Not to start an argument, but all things that are normally deemed as reasonable go out the window when you earn a salary ten times more than me (more in fact). I would expect that in order to receive such wages, you would have to make certain sacrifices.

I'm not saying he shouldn't get to go home - I'm saying its not a big deal to cut his pay for the times he does so.

Hey, my company expects unreasonable things off me all the time, and I get paid a pittance!

That's true Clive and that will be what has happened. No way ulster are paying the full wedge. Better he misses this game than Munster though

KOTH on the supporters site, who has real contacts, has stated John Afoa had his contract rewritten last summer to allow him to go home regularly - he has taken a big drop in salary

geoff998rugby wrote:KOTH on the supporters site, who has real contacts, has stated John Afoa had his contract rewritten last summer to allow him to go home regularly - he has taken a big drop in salary

Glad to hear it Geoff - getting a bit fed up with his messing around now. He's missed enough of the season already and every time he goes to NZ he seems to come back unfit and takes a few games to get going again.

Bah humbug.

http://www.independent.ie/sport/rugby/wallace-returns-amid-hopes-ferris-also-on-way-back-29854413.html

I still can't believe Ferris is still on the antigravity treadmill. Really worrying.

Great to see Paddy back, is he retiring at the end of the season or might he do another stint?

rodders wrote:I still can't believe Ferris is still on the antigravity treadmill. Really worrying.

Great to see Paddy back, is he retiring at the end of the season or might he do another stint?

I think in a recent interview he stated his personal intention to give a few more years. Depends on whether Ulster feel he is still worth a contract. Surely he knows though that if he renews, he could be third choice 12 next season??

Well yeah he would certainly be a squad player but as he's dropped out of the Irish scene he would be a valuable player still.

I'd like to see him carry on, if fit - maybe revisit the 10 position a bit. No reason he couldn't last into his late 30's like Mike Catt.

He would only be third choice 12 if Olding doesn't find himself 1st choice in another position. I wouldn't put it past him.

Im actually pleased ferris is still on anti gravity rodders. Means they are being extra cautious this time. No rushing him back. If it takes an extra month to do it right so be it

As expected Ferris has got a contract extension.

They would not be doing that unless they saw light at the end of the tunnnel

Nigel Owens the ref for our game against Tigers at Welford Road - happy with that?

I don't think we can complain. We need to hold our own at scrum time and be streetwise at the breakdown. Nige tends to let things slide there which would help Henry and Best if available. 

Who is our Montpellier ref?

I'm not liking the reporting on this game. Read an indo report there basically guaranteeing 5 points. We may well win and get the bonus but only if the attitude is right. I'm slightly nervous approaching it to be honest although I do think zebre might be focusing on their upcoming double header with treviso.

Hopefully Mark has them raring to go

Agreed StandUlsterman. Zebre have been the better of the Italian sides this year, as far as I can tell - and while the team we are putting out is not bad, it is not as strong as it could be. This sends a message to both sides - Zebre will feel we don't rate them, and the Ulster squad may feel the same.
That said - I expect players like McKinney to do what he did on his last outing, and play out of his skin to make a point. Hopefully the other squad players feel the same, and the support will be great.

McKinney was appalling, we really missed the control and organisation of Jackson. McComish also offers little. It was a poor performance but I knew when we turned around ahead at half-time we would win. To not score a try in the second half was very disappointing.

Would change most of that team for Leinster tbh, hopefully we'll see a better performance; we'll need it.

I'd hope to see

1. Tom Court
2. Rob Herring
3. Declan Fitzpatrick
4. Lewis Stevenson
5. Dan Tuohy
6. Robbie Diack
7. Sean Doyle
8. Roger Wilson
9. Paul Marshall
10. Paddy Jackson
11. Michael Allen
12. Luke Marshall
13. Darren Cave
14. Andrew Trimble
15. David McIlwaine

With Pienaar, Muller and Payne getting a rest ahead of 3 must-win games.

My brother is back for Christmas and he's going on about how he played schools rugby with Mike McComish- should have brought his boots he'd have about the same impact!   

McComish, McKinney and Allen were the worst. Appalling truth be told. I am a tad sorry for Allen because commitment and courage is there in abundance, decision making and skill levels aren't. He could improve but I cAnt see him being more than a good Ulster player. 

I worried about the selection first and if we get nothing from Leinster from a Rabo perspective it's a mistake. Hopefully Robbie is alright. Was comfortably motm for me although that doesn't say much

Also if Payne I carrying his groin he is hiding it well

Don't think there was anyone in that game who didn't make bad mistakes, but equally there was no one who didn't do something good. Ulster won, and despite what Maurice Field said, it was never going to be a 5-point game in those conditions.

Ulster managed to rest players and also use to game to sharpen returning options with hopefully no new injuries - job done.

Standulstermen wrote:Also if Payne I carrying his groin he is hiding it well

He was limping again last night

Standulstermen wrote:McComish, McKinney and Allen were the worst. Appalling truth be told. I am a tad sorry for Allen because commitment and courage is there in abundance, decision making and skill levels aren't. He could improve but I cAnt see him being more than a good Ulster player. 

I worried about the selection first and if we get nothing from Leinster from a Rabo perspective it's a mistake. Hopefully Robbie is alright. Was comfortably motm for me although that doesn't say much

Diack was not MOTM for me it was Stevenson whose counter rucking was outstanding.
Also unfair to single Allen out Gilroy was at least as bad - worse game he has played in a long long time

A lot of players showed why they are not first teamers tonight
McKinney and Andrew were both awful
Black and Annett were poor in the front row and as for McCormish really what is the point he does nothing.
He fills a hole - he gets the worst player of the match award and did nothing to alter the observation he a waste of a squad salary - give the kids games rather than him.

Very disappointing.

Been wondering about this type of performance and I have an opinion that key players make us tick and if we don't have at least 4 of them on the pitch our performances fall off a cliff.
They are - Best, Muller, Tuohy, Henry in the forwards and Pienaer, Jackson, Cave and Payne (at 15 only)

Last night we had 2 of those

Next week - Court, Herring, Fitzpatrick, Tuohy, Stevenson, Diack, Wilson, Doyle.
                  Marshall, Jackson, Trimble, Marshall, Cave, Gilroy, Payne

Bench: Black, Annett, Lutton, Henderson (if fit otherwise McComb), Henry (if fit otherwise Joyce), Heaney, Wallace, Allen

Rest Muller and Pienaer

I thought it was a decent win given the conditions and context. Our breakdown work was poor but then the ref was too quick to blow the whistle on the attacking side and allow the defending team to infringe. McComish had a good game considering he's an openside but agree that McKinney was a weak link - Paddy Wallace forced too many passes too, but looked fit and quick on his feet which is good.

Overall I'm happy enough to win ugly in a scrappy game - 5 points would have been preferable but hey ho.... merry xmas all. SUFTUM.

I would rest Payne as well, he'll have to play Munster, Montpellier and Leicester after that.

Given the conditions I didn't really expect a bonus point, but we had enough chances to get it which we didn't take.

If we rest Payne though Andrew plays and on that performance Leinster will destroy him.
No point going to Leinster with a strong team and playing a week 15
Maybe put him on the bench rather than Allen though so we can get Payne off as soon as possible in the 2nd half.