Ulster 2013/2014

First topic message reminder :

One guy I think deserves high praise from these two Treviso games is Sean Doyle.
As you know I reported some doubt about his future and that he needed to put his hand - he has done so big time.

Few more games like that and he will be with us next year for sure.

Simon Mason - now there is a name to remind me of some amazing goal kicking. I am not sure if the % stats exist for that time, but he never missed! Not in a Chris Paterson (I only take the easy ones) kind of way - but from anywhere.

Mrs P - not sure if Andy is involved at Down High any longer - but they certainly have improved. All they need now is pitches that are not under water for most of the season.....

Maybe that is why they have done so well this season?

They are innured to the "Trench Foot" inducing playing conditions we have all suffered.

 

In fairness Afoa could have been a proper Tinkywinky and insisted he get out of the contract. I tell you what living for most of the year away from my children (including a newborn) is a decent enough reason. As it is he stayed on, with reduced terms. Ulster have been very good to him but I don't like Afoa being cast as some sort of pantomime villain.

Hope to see big Nick back soon

I agree, Stand, it's wrong to put this down to Afoa, and it's a very different situation anyway.
News coming out that Ulster had actually turned down Williams request for leave.

Not good...

If Nick has disobeyed I'm pretty certain it's not done in anger. I can hardly claim to know him, but he just seems to me like a big friendly laidback (horizontal) fella who plays rugby because he enjoys it first and foremost. The downside of a character like that is that I can imagine him putting the honour of being his mates best man above what he would call his job. I'm not sure Williams takes much pride in his 'work', and doesn't take it overly seriously - he just happens to be pretty good despite only coasting.

The above is pure speculation on my part. But I just can't imagine he's done it in anger.

If its true he was turned down and went anyway - he will be out of the club in the summer.

No way Humphreys will tolerate that

Don't think that Afoa is necessarily being branded the villian of the piece but what is does illustrate is that the club made a rod for its own back when it gave one player special absence rights but not others from the same part of the world.

I know its all about principles Geoff, but will Ulster go ahead and get rid of him even when if that means adding to what already seems a difficult recruitment process?
I assume we would replace him with another NIQ?

If Williams has disobeyed the club and went AWOL then he has to go, regardless of the implications of replacing him.

Stand I accept what you are saying about Afoa but he signed a contract with Ulster and has let his family/personal circumstance infringe on his performances and commitment to delivering.

The club have been far too accommodating and should have shown him the door - even on a reduced salary I bet he's still on more than a lot of other players and I'm sure the preferential treatment he's been getting can't be good for squad unity.  

Good to see you back on here btw  

Yes. The turn round of the team dates back to having discipline - it will not be compromised imv.

I do think he would be replaced by a NIQ player

Any chance of pinching Neil Best from London Scottish? ....

rodders wrote:If Williams has disobeyed the club and went AWOL then he has to go, regardless of the implications of replacing him.

Stand I accept what you are saying about Afoa but he signed a contract with Ulster and has let his family/personal circumstance infringe on his performances and commitment to delivering.

The club have been far too accommodating and should have shown him the door - even on a reduced salary I bet he's still on more than a lot of other players and I'm sure the preferential treatment he's been getting can't be good for squad unity.  

Good to see you back on here btw  

I understand what you're saying Rodders and I don't disagree. He signed the contract yes, but he has no control over the familial circumstances which seem to have brought about the change. As it is he stuck by Ulster when he would have preferred to be elsewhere. Bear in mind that without him and using Deccie Fitz/Lutton in the HEC we would not be hosting a QF in April. Im not saying he is blameless but I do think he has shown a degree of loyalty in seriously difficult circumstances.

If Big Nick has done that then it would seem likely to me that Humph isn't the sort to take it lightly. Massive shame but at least we have another 8 (who is having a better season than him) on the books. Also if we were in the market for two backrow players I would prefer we try and nab someone off Leinster. They have backrows coming out of their a***

Discipline - Neil Best. Does not compute

The only thing that might mean it is not a NIQ player is if we got one of the Leinster boys - but we have been there without success

I do think that we will not make the same mistake with regard to being so accommodating to a player, as we have with Afoa, in the future. As I mentioned a few months back there was some rumblings of discontent about how Afoa was getting treated differently.
We probably have just about kept a lid on it because he is both hard working and easy going at the same time.

The fear would be let a player get away with ill discipline as well would be a step onto a slippery slope.
For that reason it will not be tolerated

Geoff, is it not a bit late in the day to be suddenly looking round for yet another backrower.

Nick was probably on a fairly cheap contract despite being NIQ - so I wouldn't expect a top quality replacement.

You may well be right but the bottom line is no player is bigger than the club and that is a principle we will maintain

Tommy Bowe back!!!!

To our frustration- McComish is likely to be the main short term beneficiary!

We need Nick Williams until at least the end of the season, certainly for the Heineken Cup games...

Standulstermen wrote:Tommy Bowe back!!!!

Stick him at no8!

Surely Doyle is ahead of McComish now!??

Ulster XV and replacements to face Newport Gwent Dragons, RaboDirect PRO12, Ravenhill, Friday 28th February (kick off 19:05)

(15-9): J Payne, T Bowe, D Cave, L Marshall, R Scholes, P Jackson, R Pienaar; (1-8): C Black, R Herring, R Lutton, J Muller (Captain), I Henderson, R Diack, S Doyle, R Wilson

Replacements (16-23): N Annett, T Court, A Macklin, L Stevenson, M McComish, P Marshall, S McCloskey, D McIlwaine.

Gilroy and Allen both dropped? Neither even on the bench? Still pleased to see Rory Scholes starting, bit surprised that neither of them are in the match day squad. Obviously we know about the Williams farce. I really hope Paddy J is given license to take the place kicks, Sexton is an injury doubt with his thumb so he really needs that.

I hope the exclusion of the other two doesn't point to even more dressing room unrest  

I'm a little bit disappointed Henderson is playing lock not back row. Ireland could use him getting some minutes in the 6 jersey...

Man, I'd really rather not lose him. I think he's our best 8, but I also kind of like his big grin on the pitch.

Surely this could be sorted out? If it were any other workplace, you wouldn't have grounds to get rid of someone on a single offence, would you?

A stern word, a hefty fine, an apology to fans in the paper, then get on with rugby.

No need to sidetrack our potential success because the boss men are peed off that they were disobeyed...

(15-9): J Payne, T Bowe, D Cave, L Marshall, R Scholes, P Jackson, R Pienaar; (1-8): C Black, R Herring, R Lutton, J Muller (Captain), I Henderson, R Diack, S Doyle, R Wilson; Replacements (16-23): N Annett, T Court, A Macklin, L Stevenson, M McComish, P Marshall, S McCloskey, D McIlwaine.


Tommy back, Scholes gets a start, Hendo in the 2nd row, Paddy back, Black starting - all good news for me
McCormish McIlwaine on the bench - both bad news for me

Three other observation - Fitzpatrick is out again, it is concussion related I do wonder if he has a future.
McCloskey on the bench - that to me means McKinney might as well pack his bags now. If cant make the 23 last week or this he never will
Marshall P was very close to being completely dropped

clivemcl wrote:Man, I'd really rather not lose him. I think he's our best 8, but I also kind of like his big grin on the pitch.

Surely this could be sorted out? If it were any other workplace, you wouldn't have grounds to get rid of someone on a single offence, would you?

A stern word, a hefty fine, an apology to fans in the paper, then get on with rugby.

No need to sidetrack our potential success because the boss men are peed off that they were disobeyed...

I'd say in most work places not turning up would be classed as gross misconduct and immediate dismissal unless there were some exceptional mitigating circumstances involved.

clivemcl wrote:Man, I'd really rather not lose him. I think he's our best 8, but I also kind of like his big grin on the pitch.

Surely this could be sorted out? If it were any other workplace, you wouldn't have grounds to get rid of someone on a single offence, would you?

A stern word, a hefty fine, an apology to fans in the paper, then get on with rugby.

No need to sidetrack our potential success because the boss men are peed off that they were disobeyed...

Have to disagree.
We have improved in large part because we now have discipline.
Its a slippery slope - someone misses a week of training, some pees in a taxi, someone assaults a bouncer - where is the line drawn.

Keep him this year and then ship him out -IF and ONLY IF the story is true as reported.

To be perfectly honest his performances this year have not been anywhere near as good as last anyway but that would not be justification to get rid.

Is it not more probable that Gilroy is having a rest?

I have no idea really but does he need a break?

Gilroy and Allen have not been dropped - Tommy has returned and we want to take a look at Scholes nothing more than that.

I suspect McIlwaine is in because he is another running out of time to justify himself and this is an opportunity to do so

clivemcl wrote:Man, I'd really rather not lose him. I think he's our best 8, but I also kind of like his big grin on the pitch.

Surely this could be sorted out? If it were any other workplace, you wouldn't have grounds to get rid of someone on a single offence, would you?

A stern word, a hefty fine, an apology to fans in the paper, then get on with rugby.

No need to sidetrack our potential success because the boss men are peed off that they were disobeyed...

After his antics at the Christmas party (allegedly he punched the owner of Love & Death after his brother was asked to stop dancing on a table), I fear this may be the final straw.

As I have said before, I occasionally work as a doorman in a bar that the ulster team frequent. I don't work in love and death, but this is the first I am hearing of that incident. But any in counters i have had or that my work mates have had with big nick have been fine, it's like most of the players, if they start getting out of hand you have a quiet word and they tend to listen and sort themselves out, with one or two exceptions. I would be surprised if Nick did assault the owner of a night club and it wasn't reported in the press, or at least that the police didn't get involved.

Worcester Warriors have announced the signing of Neill Annett

The fact Herring has been so good and we have 3 youngsters pushing for contracts means it doesn't surprise me he is off

I understand that the owner is a friend of Robbie Diack's and therefore didn't want to make a fuss about it. I was surprised to hear it as well, as he does come across as the archetypal gentle giant.

geoff999rugby wrote:Worcester Warriors have announced the signing of Neill Annett

The fact Herring has been so good and we have 3 youngsters pushing for contracts means it doesn't surprise me he is off

Bah! Who's next up at hooker?

Didn't Annett have a spell at Bristol too? but we called him back when Andy K was sacked and Brady was winding down to retirement? Was that a good move for him to come back to us as he hasn't been given that many caps. I actually like him as a player, he is in bests mould of a hard working hooker who has great leadership potential.

Hope he goes well over with the warriors and doesn't end up like Neil best after he left ulster for them.

Monkeyan wrote:I understand that the owner is a friend of Robbie Diack's and therefore didn't want to make a fuss about it.  I was surprised to hear it as well, as he does come across as the archetypal gentle giant.

Fair enough mate, I don't even know any of the boys who work there, different company to us. I am just surprised as I think it would be completely out of character to the man I have met in similar environments, but hey alcohol makes devils of us all.

As usual I completely agree with Geoff, no one player is bigger than the club, and if the reports are true then he should be disciplined accordingly, if that means he is asked to move on then, sadly, so be it!

NG Dragons: Rhys Jones; Matthew Pewtner, Pat Leach, Ashley Smith (Capt.), Ross Wardle; Steffan Jones, Richie Rees; Owen Evans, T. Rhys Thomas, Bruce Douglas; Matthew Screech, Cory Hill; Jevon Groves, Nic Cudd, Lewis Evans.

Replacements: Nathan Williams, Hugh Gustafson, Duncan Bell, Rob Sidoli, Ieuan Jones, Wayne Evans, Jason Tovey, Jack Dixon.

Thats the Dragons team, they are a bit threadbare in the front row and Coombs is a big loss for them up front. Bruce Douglas at tight head is ancient, was playing for Bristol and Duncan Bell on the bench has actually been retired for a couple of years now and is making a short term comeback. Ashley Smith is their danger man at 12.

Regarding Annett, it's massively frustrating that Munster and Leinster can hold onto players like that and we can't. If we had been able to hold onto the fringe players who have left to get more game time can you imagine how much better our depth would be? Faloon over McComish, Tommy Seymour over Allen, Whitten over McCloskey, Humphreys over McKinney etc. We always say 'Oh, we can afford to lose such and such' every summer but we bemoan our lack of this mythical Strength In Depth all season long.

We won't get someone to play third hooker who is as good as Annett. Good luck to him but its very disappointing news.

BelfastDickVet wrote:Didn't Annett have a spell at Bristol too? but we called him back when Andy K was sacked and Brady was winding down to retirement? Was that a good move for him to come back to us as he hasn't been given that many caps. I actually like him as a player, he is in bests mould of a hard working hooker who has great leadership potential.

Hope he goes well over with the warriors and doesn't end up like Neil best after he left ulster for them.

no danger of that Neil A has a brain

Notch wrote:

geoff999rugby wrote:Worcester Warriors have announced the signing of Neill Annett

The fact Herring has been so good and we have 3 youngsters pushing for contracts means it doesn't surprise me he is off

Bah! Who's next up at hooker?

We have Murphy (who looks promising), Andrew (who I am not sure about) but over and above that Jackson mark 2 seems to be on his way to surpassing both

Surely Gilroy and Allen could use a bit of a boot up the ass to improve performances anyway though Geoff. Certainly the former has been very poor

Just seen Glasgow have signed Isles! Most dangerous attacker in the world, but probably has weaknesses in most other aspects of the game. Still though, I'd be surprised if he isn't the league top scorer or something next year.

Isles is that fast bloke? Lets see how quick he is on the muddy scottish turf .....

Wouldn't argue with that Stand but I think Bowe and Scholes would have played regardless of how Allen and Gilroy have performed

Gilroy will come good when the pitches harden. It
hasn't really been the kind of winter for fleet footed wingers to excel in.

I think Gilroy has been trying too hard and been a bit anxious.

If Schmidt is smart he'll take him on tour because of his potential

anyone have any joy getting tickets today? I didn't and I see there is much wailing and gnashing of teeth on uafc  

Great to see Bowe back.

clivemcl wrote:Just seen Glasgow have signed Isles! Most dangerous attacker in the world

How is he the most dangerous attacker in the world? Has he even played a game of professional 15 man rugby?

Matthew Screech

Matthew Screech

Matthew Screech

From saved by the bell ?
Great name.

Yer man Isles is fast, of that there's no doubt but it takes a lot more than speed to make a modern winger.
Mind you......get the ball to him in space or go for a cross fielder....... 




Happy with that Ulster selection although if they play collectively like they did last week I am switching channels. Perhaps to reruns of saved by the bell

Didn't realise the Ireland squad were training at Newforge today, were some of the Academy players working with them?

http://www.ulsterrugby.com/News/LatestNews/TabId/149/ArtMID/793/ArticleID/1260/Heineken-Cup-Quarter-Final-Tickets-Sold-Out.aspx

Real shame that less tickets for the quarter-final are available to Ulster fans than tonights game... but hopefully we'll have wormed our way into the Sarries allocation. 3000 tickets for ERC and Corporate Sponsors! I suppose its just the nature of the beast.

Anyway, the atmosphere should be unreal.