1872 Cup Thread 2014: Glasgow vs Edinburgh

[George Carlin]

First topic message reminder :


 
It's that time again. The oldest club fixture in world rugby.
Glasgow looking for an unprecedented fifth successive win.
Bring it.
 

 
It's the the social club versus the golf club, the unwashed versus the exfoliators, the heroin users versus the social drinkers, the chips & cheese versus the salt & sauce, the ramraiders versus the online bank hackers, the knock-off Rolecks versus the original Pateks and the cardiac arrest versus the stress-related work sign-off for a fortnight.
 
A. The Fixtures
 
Round 1
Thursday 26 December 2013, 15:05
Edinburgh Rugby v Glasgow Warriors
Murrayfield Library
 
Referee: Neil Paterson (SRU, 57th competition game)
Assistant Referees: David Changleng, Bob Nevins (both SRU)
Citing Commissioner: John Cole (SRU)
TMO: Jim Yuille (SRU)
 
LIVE on BBC ALBA
 
Round 2
Saturday 26 April 2014, 19:05
Glasgow Warriors v Edinburgh Rugby
Scotstoun Stadium
 
Referee: Mathieu Raynal (FFR, 2nd competition game)
Assistant Referees: Neil Paterson, Graeme Marshall (both SRU)
Citing Commissioner: Douglas Hunter (SRU)
TMO: Jim Yuille (SRU)
 
LIVE on BBC ALBA
 
B. Form - head to head
 
20 Played 20
11 Wins 8
8 Losses 11
1 Draws 1
37 Tries 34
22 Conversions 22
53 Penalties 55
11 Drop Goals 5
421 Points 394
26 Avg. Age 26
 
C. Form - last year & this
 
Friday 21 December 2012, 19:35
Glasgow Warriors 23 - 14 Edinburgh Rugby
Scotstoun
 
Saturday 29 December 2012, 16:05
Edinburgh Rugby 17 - 21 Glasgow Warriors
Murrayfield
 
Thursday 26 December 2013, 15:05
Edinburgh Rugby 16 - 20 Glasgow Warriors
Murrayfield

D. Teams
 
Round 1:
 
(i) Edinburgh

15 Jack Cuthbert
14 Dougie Fife
13 Nick De Luca
12 Ben Atiga
11 Tom Brown
10 Greig Tonks
09 Greig Laidlaw (c)
 
01 Wicus Blaauw
02 Ross Ford
03 Willem Nel
04 Grant Gilchrist
05 Ollie Atkins
06 Cornell Du Preez
07 Roddy Grant
08 David Denton
 
16 Aleki Lutui
17 Alex Allan
18 Geoff Cross
19 Izak van der Westhuizen
20 Mike Coman
21 Grayson Hart
22 Tony Fenner
23 Sam Beard
 
(ii) Glasgow

15. Sean Maitland
14. Tommy Seymour
13. Stuart Hogg
12. Alex Dunbar
11. DTH van der Merwe
10. Duncan Weir
09. Chris Cusiter (c)
 
01. Ryan Grant
02. Pat MacArthur
03. Jon Welsh
04. Tim Swinson
05. Tom Ryder
06. Rob Harley
07. Tyrone Holmes
08. Ryan Wilson
 
16. Dougie Hall
17. Gordon Reid
18. Moray Low
19. Leone Nakarawa
20. Josh Strauss
21. Chris Fusaro
22. Henry Pyrgos
23. Ruaridh Jackson
 
Round 2
 
(i) Glasgow
 
15. Peter Murchie
14. Sean Maitland
13. Mark Bennett
12. Finn Russell
11. Tommy Seymour
10. Ruaridh Jackson
09. Chris Cusiter

01. Ryan Grant
02. Dougie Hall
03. Jon Welsh
04. Jonny Gray
05. Al Kellock (Captain)
06. Rob Harley
07. Chris Fusaro
08. Josh Strauss

16. Pat MacArthur
17. Jerry Yanuyanutawa
18. Moray Low
19. Leone Nakarawa
20. Ryan Wilson
21. Niko Matawalu
22. Duncan Weir
23. Richie Vernon
 
(ii) Edinburgh

15 Cuthbert
14 Brown
13 Scott
12 Strauss
11 Visser
10 Bezuidenhout
09 Laidlaw (c)

08 Denton
07 Du Preez
06 Coman
05 van der Westhuizen
04 Gilchrist
03 Nel
02 Ford
01 Dickinson

16 Hilterbrand
17 Blaauw
18 Berghan
19 Toolis
20 Leonardi
21 Hart
22 Francis
23 Beard

[funnyExiledScot]

Very different approaches from Solomons and Toonie, and I suspect the right answer lies somewhere inbetween. I tend to prefer continuity, but at the same time Nel seems to have played just about every minute of every match this season!

When he does qualify for Scotland, he'll have earned the jersey!

[funnyExiledScot]

15 Jack Cuthbert
14 Dougie Fife
13 Nick De Luca
12 Ben Atiga
11 Tom Brown
10 Greig Tonks
9 Greig Laidlaw CAPTAIN

1 Alasdair Dickinson
2 Ross Ford
3 Willem Nel
4 Grant Gilchrist
5 Ollie Atkins
6 Cornell Du Preez
7 Roddy Grant
8 David Denton

Substitutes

16 Aleki Lutui
17 Wicus Blaauw
18 Geoff Cross
19 Izak van der Westhuizen
20 Mike Coman
21 Grayson Hart
22 Tony Fenner
23 Sam Beard

[George Carlin]

OP updated.

Thoughts:

1. Nel is starting again, the poor barsteward.
2. Is Gilchrist and Atkins the preferred Edinburgh lock pairing now? This suggests it is.
3. Dunbar and Barry in Glasgow's midfield. De Luca should target this.
4. Return of the Schlong, which is good to see. No idea what form he'll be in.
5. Bluto starting, which is correct.
6. Once again, the Toonie half back merry-go-round. How will Scotland ever achieve continuity like this?
7. Never get less than 8 hours sleep.
8. Always take your coat off when you come inside or you won't feel the benefit when you go back outside.

[funnyExiledScot]

I'm just delighted that Bluto has plucked up the courage to come out and face the Edinburgh back row.....

Good to see Hogg back at 15 and Maitland at 14 - both in the best positions.

From an Edinburgh perspective I'm pleased to see McGuigan at 13 - I don't rate him. Niko on the bench worries me though. The ultimate impact sub.

I think Glasgow will shade this one again, they seem to have the greater collective belief allied with the outside backs to convert chances. Edinburgh have certainly improved hugely since last year though, the improvements to our pack are particularly welcome.

[RDW]

Our pack has improved beyond recognition, and what is more pleasing is that we have a forwards bench that for once won't weaken the team if they came on!

Jack gilding and Kyle traynor anyone?

[jimbopip]

RDW, the benches are interesting. There seems to be a bit more grunt in the MFL bench this time and Toonie has gone with two backs again. Ryan Wilson on the wing this week? No Moray Low anywhere, has he fallen out with Toonie? Did he leak the news about moving to the Chiefs? The MFL backs replacements don't fill me with dread but Niko coming onto a tiring field and running riot sounds good.
A rather conservative set of changes for Toonie.

[funnyExiledScot]

I've actually got time for both Hart and Beard on our bench, although I've never seen Fenner play (has anyone?).

Niko is certainly the pick of the impact subs, but I do like having Blaauw, Lutui and VDW on the bench for us. They each bring a bit of nasty to proceedings.

I find the treatment of Murray Low at Glasgow baffling. The sooner he leaves there the better. Scotland needs him playing at tighthead week in week out.

[George Carlin]

Toonie still has some making up to do. Most Glasgow fans remain at a loss to explain the contradictions in the season. The Make Up Sex is yet to be had with Townsend.

Why does a team that went unbeaten at home for a year suddenly lose three at home on the bounce to teams it should have beaten? Why does a team that has now set a Rabo record for consecutive away victories (6) and last season set another record for consecutive try bonus points achieved been unable to achieve more than a single bonus point with half of the season gone? Why on earth are we suddenly turning over so much ball? Not happy.

Edinburgh absolutely could win this. I don't know on what basis anyone would be confident of claiming otherwise.

[George Carlin]

I've actually got time for both Hart and Beard on our bench, although I've never seen Fenner play (has anyone?).

Hart and Beard sounds like an adult toys shop on Old Compton Street.

[funnyExiledScot]

I've actually got time for both Hart and Beard on our bench, although I've never seen Fenner play (has anyone?).

Hart and Beard sounds like an adult toys shop on Old Compton Street.

Always lowering the tone GC...   

[George Carlin]

I've actually got time for both Hart and Beard on our bench, although I've never seen Fenner play (has anyone?).

Hart and Beard sounds like an adult toys shop on Old Compton Street.

Always lowering the tone GC...   

[funnyExiledScot]

Why does a team that went unbeaten at home for a year suddenly lose three at home on the bounce to teams it should have beaten? Why does a team that has now set a Rabo record for consecutive away victories (6) and last season set another record for consecutive try bonus points achieved been unable to achieve more than a single bonus point with half of the season gone? Why on earth are we suddenly turning over so much ball? Not happy.

Agreed - and I think the key question is why does the team get progressively worse the longer Toonie is in charge? He inherited a great side from Lineen and I'm not convinced that Glasgow are moving forwards. Although Glasgow have been winning games this season pretty well, there have been very few (if any) decent performances. Glasgow "points scored" tally this season is utterly dreadful for a side with their firepower. Injuries have played a key role, particularly Cusack and Horne, but there have been some bizarre selection decisions as well.

I'm quite happy to stick with Solomons and Omar thankyou very much. We, despite still being behind the Great Unwashed, are at least moving in the right direction.

[RDW]

We can talk about the relative strengths of the Edinburgh bench all we want, but it won't count for much if Solomons carries on with his refusal to use it!

[funnyExiledScot]

We can talk about the relative strengths of the Edinburgh bench all we want, but it won't count for much if Solomons carries on with his refusal to use it!

Very true. I wouldn't blame Geoff Cross if he sat on the bench in his dressing gown and slippers smoking a pipe!

[EWT Spoons]

On paper this should be a decent game.  Sadly I think it will follow a similar theme to the first leg.  Edinburgh will play well until Glasgow use their bench, at which point the fresh legs will win them the match.

[EWT Spoons]

We can talk about the relative strengths of the Edinburgh bench all we want, but it won't count for much if Solomons carries on with his refusal to use it!

Very true. I wouldn't blame Geoff Cross if he sat on the bench in his dressing gown and slippers smoking a pipe!

I'd love to see this.

[George Carlin]

Would love to see Cross with a sandwich board on the sidelines saying something like "Will Prop For Food".

Terrible to see a quick Glasgow backline on paper with Niko on he bench and not be really hopeful that anyone is going to score any tries.

[funnyExiledScot]

Terrible to see a quick Glasgow backline on paper with Niko on he bench and not be really hopeful that anyone is going to score any tries.

I think Jackson will help in that department. Weir just kicks everything away. At least Jackson will keep the ball in hand more often and open up more possibilities. You also have Hogg coming in from 15 as a second playmaker to test the Edinburgh wide defence which has been porous against sides brave enough to attack the wider channels.

Edinburgh once again need to ramp up the pack and take on Glasgow head on. Our backline currently requires at least 5 gilt-edged opportunities for every try actually scored, so Nel, Atkins and co once again have their work cut out.

[jimbopip]

Very true. I wouldn't blame Geoff Cross if he sat on the bench in his dressing gown and slippers smoking a pipe![/quote]
Thank you for that glimpse into the domestic arrangements chez FES

[RDW]

There's two schools of thought with regards to players playing the full 80 or being told in advance they will be subbed off after 60 mins say.

If the players know they will play the full 80 then the team will not lose any cohesion due to fresh legs coming on, however you'd question whether the likes of nel reall goes 100 % all game if he knows he has to play the full 80.

If players know they are being subbed early then the team might lose a bit of cohesion, but I'd like to think a players that knows he's only playing 60 minutes would run himself ragged, basically needing to be carried off the pitch he's put in so much effort.

My personal preference would be the latter, especially in the forwards - we've really got some big hitters waiting to come off the bench and if the players know they're being subbed on 60 mins they'll sure as hell put a massive effort in.

[RDW]

Just to caveat that by saying if situations change and there's no need to sub players as planned, then dont do it for the sake of it! Need to be flexible.

[justified sinner]

Interestingly Bill Lothian, I know, is quoting Stevie Scott as saying that the management have looked at subs and are considering players fatigue levels. If that's true expect more tomorrow.

[George Carlin]

Interestingly Bill Lothian, I know, is quoting Stevie Scott as saying that the management have looked at subs and are considering players fatigue levels. If that's true expect more tomorrow.

More subs or more fatigue?   

*sound of coat being retreived and door being closed quietly*

[justified sinner]

Dear dear GC, poor, I wouldn't even have thought of that one. Anyway have a good New Year.

[21st Century Schizoid Man]

Where the hell are Holmes, DTH and Cusiter ? This is a bit of gamble by Townsend. I am glad to see the Jedi back in the 23.

[justified sinner]

So your lucky bag picked a different team from Toonie. For what it's worth I agree.

[21st Century Schizoid Man]

Andrew McMenemy refs. Anyone know him ? Cannot possibly be worse than Neil I Can Spoil Any Game Paterson.

[George Carlin]

Looking forward to tomorrow - off to bed now.

Happy hogmanay to all of my brethren of the beautiful sport.

[jimbopip]

Boys, boys let's have a partial truce until after the bells (or Bells) so I'll wish you all a Happy New Year in advance.
Let's hope we maintain the standard next year.       

[EWT Spoons]

Happy new year when it comes wherever you all are.

Looking forward to starting the year with the 1872 cup back at MF

[RDW]

Happy new year everyone!

Also, game day!!

[21st Century Schizoid Man]

Happy New Year to all.

Game day and conditions very tricky esp for kickers. Take it game is still on ? Well scarf on and off to the Scout Hall for a wee shandy then the main event.

WARRIORS - WHATEVER IT TAKES

[GLove39]

Happy New Year chaps. May this year be a prosperous one for all Scottish teams.

Onto today's game, heard its chucking it down in Glasgow at the moment, so looks as though it'll be a slow, territory based affair, just the sort of game for Jackson to exploit with his tactical kicking nous...

[George Carlin]

Does anyone know whether these artificial pitches really do make a difference to the surface on days like this? Is the point that all water drains through and out rather than siting embedded in the turf? Seems to be the way ahead in Scotland as long as this remains a winter sport (ie one played in any month except June).

Happy new year to everyone. I hope no unwise shot was left undrunk last night.

[justified sinner]

Happy New Year everyone.

Looking forward to a fun game tonight with a Gunners win.

[jimbopip]

Does anyone know whether these artificial pitches really do make a difference to the surface on days like this? Is the point that all water drains through and out rather than siting embedded in the turf? Seems to be the way ahead in Scotland as long as this remains a winter sport (ie one played in any month except June).

Happy new year to everyone. I hope no unwise shot was left undrunk last night.

Two points George. Once while working in a Glasgow pub frequented by sports journalists much merriment was had from a serious question from a visiting Japanese scribe to the Open at St Andrews, " Why don't you hold it in the summer?". After long discussion we all agreed that the only answer was to direct them to Peter Ustinov's, " Ah, summer in Scotland! The mildest winter I know."
Secondly, even for a member of the legal fraternity your final sentence contains more equivocation than a politician's promise.
If it's wet and slippy at Scotstoun will Jackson stab the ball in behind Atiga just to watch him turn?
Will the conditions suit Velcro fingers DeLuca more than other mere mortals?
Will Strauss batter it up the middle till the hour mark then Wilson and Jedi come on to do more of the same?
Warriors by 14 points.   

[GLove39]

Game called OFF due to waterlogged pitch  

[justified sinner]

FFS

[GLove39]

Are Glasgow actually going to play any more home games this season!? Also where do they fit the Treviso & Edinburgh games into the calendar?

[justified sinner]

Treviso is easy, just pick an international weekend, Embra ditto, but may be some issues around players availability.

[jimbopip]

This is ridiculous, just over an hour ago the club website was saying no problems. If I was travelling to the game from Edinburgh I would       not be pleased.

[RDW]

Well that is really crap - suspect it will have to be played during an international weekend.

Real problems for Glasgow now having to fit in 2 extra games.

Bloody glaswegian weather!

[GLove39]

Makes sense, but a shame, since that'll devalue the final party of the 1872.

[RDW]

Surely could be played tomorrow or Friday?

The next games aren't until the following weekend!

[justified sinner]

Think logistics might dictate that's not possible, but Saturday May be a possibility?

[George Carlin]

This is ridiculous. They must have known this morning that the pitch was more sodden than Schiz's liver. Really not what our title aspirations need.

[RDW]

Think logistics might dictate that's not possible, but Saturday May be a possibility?

Surely logistics wise it would be easier to leave all the infrastructure in place for a couple of days than take it all down for a later date?

[justified sinner]

Stewarding, catering, TV deal with Alba, etc. Can't be done overnight.

[tigertattie]

Glasgow are sooooo scared of the mighty burgh that they've called off. Bunch of wimps. I'd have thought they'd have recovered from the physical smashing they got last week.

Spineless soap dodgers.

[21st Century Schizoid Man]

This is ridiculous, just over an hour ago the club website was saying no problems. If I was travelling to the game from Edinburgh I would       not be pleased.

Just back. Saw 2 MFLs in the Scout Hall. Otherwise mobbed with Warriors. Got 3 pints and a quick Mr S curry and announced game aff! Felt we had the team for these conditions too. Ah well - is the Great Escape on the telly ?

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