India in NZ--trundlers and Yuvraj out

actually a new thread might be more appropriate:



ODI Team vs. NZ- MSD (C), Dhawan, Rohit, Virat, Rahane, Rayudu, Raina, Ashwin, Jadeja, Bhuvi, Shami, Ishant, Mishra, Ishwar, Binny, Aaron

Test squad
MS Dhoni (capt), Shikhar Dhawan, M Vijay, Cheteshwar Pujara, Virat Kohli, Rohit Sharma, Ajinkya Rahane, Ravindra Jadeja, Zaheer Khan, Mohammed Shami, Ishant Sharma, Ambati Rayudu, Bhuvneshwar Kumar, R Ashwin, Umesh Yadav, Wriddhiman Saha, Ishwar Pandey
In: Ishwar Pandey

--ODI team...aaron, Pandey and Binny are in.....no room for Puajra...that is shocking on one hand...and on the other kinda guarantees Binny will play.
Having Pujara in could have given him some acclimatization to NZ conditions before test and eventually he will be there in the world cup.

raina is the next one under the radar screen of everyone..


--So instead of a seam bowling allrounder....they went for a batting cum seam bowling allrounder...Binny is a good guy and I have been rooting for him for a long time. He is temperamentally good, hard hitting No.7 with steady medium pacer.
Another Robin Singh for India.

--Aaron has been blistering fast and recovered and hence back..and Pandey has had 2 or 3 good seasons so he had to be rewarded....Mohit sharma and Vinay Kumar are out.....good to see trundlers replaced with genuine fast medium bowlers.
Ishant survives because of his "My-Baap" for now

--Instead of either Ashwin or Mishra I would have liked to see Jalaj Saxena...because he can bat.
In overseas conditions it's better to have spinners that are batsmen also.


Not perfect...but heading in the right direction the team is

Over a period of next few months.....I sense( and hope and wish) that Pandey will push out Ishant for good.

and Rayadu may give a run to Raina...

althouhg raina has been given a Grade-A contract as one of the 3 guys along with MSD and Kohli...because of his obvious closeness to captain...so displacing him won't be easy

How fast is Aaron? When he played England he was rarely much over 140, marginally quicker than Bresnan was.

Peter Seabiscuit Wheeler wrote:How fast is Aaron? When he played England he was rarely much over 140, marginally quicker than Bresnan was.

ohh Bresnan is "assigned " 140kph......how fast are Anderson and Broad on that scale of "assignment"   

Oh sorry I didnt realise the speeds recorded by Hawkeye were assigned by Bresnans dad.
Makes a lot of sense now.

It was an honest question, how quick is he (based on actual evidence rather than wishful thinking)? Because the (limited) evidence Ive seen puts him in the Broad bracket, not the Johnson bracket.
He rarely tops 140 according to hawkeye. Hes described as fast medium by cricinfo.
Not blistering, unless this has changed?

Go and look up his speeds in the game he played vs england, youll see he was barely faster than Bresnan. No wonder BCCI wont touch hawkeye

after returning from his back surgery and rehabilitation and building his peak fitness by the 3rd Ranji game...he was reportedly bowling in the 145-150 kph corridor.

That is blistering fast...for Ranji level...and genuinely fast by international standards.

Aaron and Yadav are routinely 140+ bowlers.......and often times crossing the 144kph ( 90mph) barrier and occasionally going past 150+.......why CI writes them as anything but fast is CI's problem.

if Bresnan bowls anywhere close to 140....WOW....England are so lucky to have him

Im going by the hawkeye stats that are available for the international games hes played, in those he rarely tops 140.

Yes 145 would be fast for Ranji and a capability of hitting 150 would make him genuinely fast (both Finn and Johnson top out around that). Im yet to see anything real that states he can bowl that fast in game with any degree of control though. We will see if he gets to play with it properly measured and published though.

Hes certainly got to be a better punt than Mohit Sharma, was he sleeping with someones uncle to get selected? Any idea what the thinking was with him?

Peter Seabiscuit Wheeler wrote:Im going by the hawkeye stats that are available for the international games hes played, in those he rarely tops 140.

Yes 145 would be fast for Ranji and a capability of hitting 150 would make him genuinely fast (both Finn and Johnson top out around that). Im yet to see anything real that states he can bowl that fast in game with any degree of control though. We will see if he gets to play with it properly measured and published though.

Hes certainly got to be a better punt than Mohit Sharma, was he sleeping with someones uncle to get selected? Any idea what the thinking was with him?

Mohit, Vinay, Kulkarni and before them Praveen and RPS etc are all medium pacers with stock balls 125-130kph and sometime touching 135 ( sounds more like Bresnan) were selected as a Dhoni-strategy to use line / length medium pacers to control.....and batsmen to win ODIs and spinners to win tests.

But SA series has been a rude realization for Dhoni  that you need quality seamers and fast bowlers to win tests and ODIs overseas...hence the return or Aaron and induction of Pandey who is 135+ but a tall  hit the deck hard and gets bounce off a length type of wicket taking bowler.

KP_fan wrote:

Peter Seabiscuit Wheeler wrote:Im going by the hawkeye stats that are available for the international games hes played, in those he rarely tops 140.

Yes 145 would be fast for Ranji and a capability of hitting 150 would make him genuinely fast (both Finn and Johnson top out around that). Im yet to see anything real that states he can bowl that fast in game with any degree of control though. We will see if he gets to play with it properly measured and published though.

Hes certainly got to be a better punt than Mohit Sharma, was he sleeping with someones uncle to get selected? Any idea what the thinking was with him?

Mohit, Vinay, Kulkarni and before them Praveen and RPS etc are all medium pacers with stock balls 125-130kph and sometime touching 135 ( sounds more like Bresnan) were selected as a Dhoni-strategy to use line / length medium pacers to control.....and batsmen to win ODIs and spinners to win tests.

But SA series has been a rude realization for Dhoni  that you need quality seamers and fast bowlers to win tests and ODIs overseas...hence the return or Aaron and induction of Pandey who is 135+ but a tall  hit the deck hard and gets bounce off a length type of wicket taking bowler.

Like Tremlett you mean?   

Weve seen some medium pacers be able to do ok at international level, but Im really thinking of guys who also can bat in the top 5 (Collingwood and Bopara have both at times been treated as front 5 bowlers by England with success) but really that selection was just odd. Its not even like the guy had any real experience playing cricket.
I hate to characterise but you do wonder about the corruption behind this sometimes, Sangakarra outed the Sri Lankan board over just that kind of thing no so long ago.

Whats the deal with Raina? I thought he had a good record in limited overs and a strong fielder, I guess theres just an embarrassment of riches in Indian specialist batsmen now.

PSW, Varun Aaron could be seriously quick on his day. He was ones clocked at 151 KPH in a domestic OD, and usually bowls in the early to mid 140s, certainly quicker than Bresnan is and a bit quicker on average than Broad as well.

No Rishi Dhawan in either squad is disappointing really. As for the ODI squad, they've gone for Stuart Binny, who's neither here nor there as an all-rounder. But Yuvraj had to go after that poor run, and Binny can hit the ball for sure. But how effectively and consistently will he do it in international cricket remains to be seen. Don't really rate his bowling much, don't think he has the pace to trouble international batsman, Dhawan is a way better bowler with a lot more skills and a bit more pace as well though Rishi is not all that quick. Varun Aaron has the pace, he could perhaps show that he has other skills besides valuable pace, and as a project, Aaron is worth more than the likes of Mohit Sharma. Ishwar Pandey had a decent tour of South Africa but they never picked him for the tour despite some early season domestic form. Said that, Pandey showed good form in FC cricket and I feel he's more suited to the longer format. But I do have hopes of Pandey and I hope he gets a run in the side in place of Ishant Sharma who might or might not play his one ODI of the year and Test of the Year during the tour, he's a lottery as ever. Think Cheteshwar Pujara should have been selected for the ODI leg as well, given that they haven't gone that way, I hope Ajinkya Rahane is given a decent run in the ODI side. Suresh Raina will have to deliver in this series, or else have to be replaced. Binny could in fact make a potentially decent replacement for Raina.
On to the test squad. The batsmen did a fine job over all in South Africa, and as expected, there were no changes really. Rohit Sharma gets another chance, New Zealand's batting isn't great, but in Boult and Southee, they have a couple of very fine bowlers and the conditions won't be easy as well. So Sharma has a chance to score some meaningful test runs and establish his credentials. Pandey is quite deserving of his test place as he has a pretty decent First Class record and has done well with the A team. Ojha didn't do much wrong to deserve to be dropped, but then I wouldn't have picked him for the South Africa series, Ravindra Jadeja remains my first choice option for now, and Ashwin's obvious batting abilities, coupled with the expected conditions mean he should be the 2nd in line, at least for now.

OK I was curious so I checked Aaron's only Test to date. Was clocked at 81.4 to 90.1 ...nippy but a deal slower than Ishant (93+) !! in the same innings...understandably a bit slower in the second innings.
Doesn't immediately suggest an express bowler. But only one match...

Of course pace isn't everything ; but I would caution against getting overexcited in advance. As an example , if you'll pardon my using an English one ; Finn may have been slightly over egged as a fast
bowler when he arrived on the scene. Such that even a slight drop off in pace disappointed people...one could argue that the pressure to live up his billing may have contributed to his current difficulties ? When , say , around 90 coupled with extreme bounce would have been pretty handy...

Whatever : Aaron impressed me when I saw him in ODI against England , though again I see nothing over 90.6 . I certainly think he is worth a go. Just don't demand he be the Indian equivalent of Shoib Akhtar...

msp83 wrote:No Rishi Dhawan in either squad is disappointing really. As for the ODI squad, they've gone for Stuart Binny, who's neither here nor there as an all-rounder. But Yuvraj had to go after that poor run, and Binny can hit the ball for sure. But how effectively and consistently will he do it in international cricket remains to be seen. Don't really rate his bowling much, don't think he has the pace to trouble international batsman, Dhawan is a way better bowler with a lot more skills and a bit more pace as well though Rishi is not all that quick. Varun Aaron has the pace, he could perhaps show that he has other skills besides valuable pace, and as a project, Aaron is worth more than the likes of Mohit Sharma. Ishwar Pandey had a decent tour of South Africa but they never picked him for the tour despite some early season domestic form. Said that, Pandey showed good form in FC cricket and I feel he's more suited to the longer format. But I do have hopes of Pandey and I hope he gets a run in the side in place of Ishant Sharma who might or might not play his one ODI of the year and Test of the Year during the tour, he's a lottery as ever. Think Cheteshwar Pujara should have been selected for the ODI leg as well, given that they haven't gone that way, I hope Ajinkya Rahane is given a decent run in the ODI side. Suresh Raina will have to deliver in this series, or else have to be replaced. Binny could in fact make a potentially decent replacement for Raina.
On to the test squad. The batsmen did a fine job over all in South Africa, and as expected, there were no changes really. Rohit Sharma gets another chance, New Zealand's batting isn't great, but in Boult and Southee, they have a couple of very fine bowlers and the conditions won't be easy as well. So Sharma has a chance to score some meaningful test runs and establish his credentials. Pandey is quite deserving of his test place as he has a pretty decent First Class record and has done well with the A team. Ojha didn't do much wrong to deserve to be dropped, but then I wouldn't have picked him for the South Africa series, Ravindra Jadeja remains my first choice option for now, and Ashwin's obvious batting abilities, coupled with the expected conditions mean he should be the 2nd in line, at least for now.

Really MSP? I mean, REALLYYYYYYYY?? Are you still defending Ashwin? He has failed in 4 overseas Tests in a row now. You want Rohit Sharma dropped after 2 bad Tests (fair enough) but keep defending Ashwin despite awful performances against every decent opposition he has faced. Ojha hasn't even been given a chance overseas. Surely he should be the 2nd choice to Jadeja. It is Ashwin who should have been left out.

Robin Jackman noted late on D5.....Dhoni is bowling zaheer into the ground...how will he bowlin T2. ??
and visibly Zaheer was tired and less potent in T2.

Dhoni was almost call it sadistic...call it insensitive... in using Zaheer in particular and seamers in general with respect to workload.
I also felt he bowled Jadeja too much in T2......if there was a 3rd test......Jadeja also might not be so effective.

How will he manage when he plays a 5 test series in England in 2014 followed by 4 tests in Aus same year ???

Using fast bowlers and keeping them fresh is an art...that Dhoni has not fully understood........because he lacks experience in having too many fast bowlers and using them in overseas conditions.

he has to decide whether he wants to use Zaheer as a stock bowl or an attack bowler.
Ishant is clearly no more than a stock bowler.

A team needs a minimum of 2, ideally 3 stock bowlers...and 2 attacking bowlers with roles clearly defined.
for example Aus plays Siddle, Lyon and Watson as stock bowlers.... Johnson and Harris are attack bowlers.

SA has Kallis, Peterson as stock bowlers....Steyn and Morkel are clearly strike bowlers

Yadav should be plying and used as an attack bowler.

the 150kph hiting Yadav.....if he's not gonna be played in SA where else would you play him??

Look at this SR?

His exclusion was a clear sign of the muddled thinking oif Dhoni...not having a clear distinction and startegy between stock and attack bowlers.

a sem bowling allrounder would be a good stock bolwer as would be the spinner letting the remaining 3 seamers go flat out in small bursts

ShankyCricket wrote:

msp83 wrote:No Rishi Dhawan in either squad is disappointing really. As for the ODI squad, they've gone for Stuart Binny, who's neither here nor there as an all-rounder. But Yuvraj had to go after that poor run, and Binny can hit the ball for sure. But how effectively and consistently will he do it in international cricket remains to be seen. Don't really rate his bowling much, don't think he has the pace to trouble international batsman, Dhawan is a way better bowler with a lot more skills and a bit more pace as well though Rishi is not all that quick. Varun Aaron has the pace, he could perhaps show that he has other skills besides valuable pace, and as a project, Aaron is worth more than the likes of Mohit Sharma. Ishwar Pandey had a decent tour of South Africa but they never picked him for the tour despite some early season domestic form. Said that, Pandey showed good form in FC cricket and I feel he's more suited to the longer format. But I do have hopes of Pandey and I hope he gets a run in the side in place of Ishant Sharma who might or might not play his one ODI of the year and Test of the Year during the tour, he's a lottery as ever. Think Cheteshwar Pujara should have been selected for the ODI leg as well, given that they haven't gone that way, I hope Ajinkya Rahane is given a decent run in the ODI side. Suresh Raina will have to deliver in this series, or else have to be replaced. Binny could in fact make a potentially decent replacement for Raina.
On to the test squad. The batsmen did a fine job over all in South Africa, and as expected, there were no changes really. Rohit Sharma gets another chance, New Zealand's batting isn't great, but in Boult and Southee, they have a couple of very fine bowlers and the conditions won't be easy as well. So Sharma has a chance to score some meaningful test runs and establish his credentials. Pandey is quite deserving of his test place as he has a pretty decent First Class record and has done well with the A team. Ojha didn't do much wrong to deserve to be dropped, but then I wouldn't have picked him for the South Africa series, Ravindra Jadeja remains my first choice option for now, and Ashwin's obvious batting abilities, coupled with the expected conditions mean he should be the 2nd in line, at least for now.

Really MSP? I mean, REALLYYYYYYYY?? Are you still defending Ashwin? He has failed in 4 overseas Tests in a row now. You want Rohit Sharma dropped after 2 bad Tests (fair enough) but keep defending Ashwin despite awful performances against every decent opposition he has faced. Ojha hasn't even been given a chance overseas. Surely he should be the 2nd choice to Jadeja. It is Ashwin who should have been left out.

Shanky, think Ashwin rightly lost his led spinner role as he bowled poorly in the first test in South Africa. I wouldn't consider his Australian tests as a failure really, he did better than Harbhajan Singh, and hasn't done a lot worse than Graeme Swann and Muttiah Muralitharan. Ojha hasn't shown himself to be capable of running through sides, he can work through lineups in Indian conditions, but I don't see him being seriously superior to Ashwin, though a good case can be made for him being the better bowler of the 2. But in non-subcontinental conditions, the spinners are unlikely to run through lineups, and in such conditions, the batting depth is not insignificant. I know bowlers are to be picked for their bowling basically, but when the bowling output of the contenders aren't vastly different, think their batting abilities also should come into the frame. Between Imran Tahir and Robin Peterson for example, I'd prefer Peterson most of the day as he can bat and as they are both average bowlers.
In NZ India would need only 1 spinner, and Jadeja has earned the position for himself with a very good performance. Ashwin's batting abilities would make him the backup option in my view. But Ashwin has to start delivering more, or else Ojha could overtake him.

if you don't have a spinner who can bowl sides out.....then just play the ones who can be steady and bat well...and by that criteria after Jadeja...Ojha doesn't fit even in top-5....it's the likes of Ashwin, Jalaj Saxena, Iqbal Abdulla that will be considered

Think Ojha clearly is a much better bowler then either Jalaj Saxena and Iqbal Abdullah.
Saxena had a pretty good Ranji season with the ball, but his overall record is nothing much to write about. As for Abdullah, he's not even Mumbai's first choice, he has been their 3rd choice spinner behind Dabholkar and Pravin Tambe.
The top 5 contenders in my view are
Ravindra Jadeja
Ravichandran Ashwin
Pragyan Ojha
Amit Mishra
Harbhajan Singh.
I don't favor going back to recently inconsistent, approaching 34 Harbhajan again. The other spin prospects to watchout for are
Vishal Dabholkar of Mumbai, the most consistent Ranji spinner this season.
Akshar Patel of Gujarat, an upcoming 19 player, Patel can bat as well.
Parwez Rasool of Jammu & Kashmir. Rasool hasn't had as good a season as he had last year, still he was there or thereabout, and the guy is a real deal as an all-rounder.
Kuldeep Yadav, the U-19 Chinaman spinner is yet to break into the Uttar Pradesh Ranji side, but he's one to look forward to.

The omission of Yuvraj is a good move but can't quite fathom the continued retention of Raina. Absolutely disgraceful. His recent figures are worse tan Yuvraj I think. Really hope Rayudu plays.'

My XI out of the squad

Shikhar
Rohit (I would've preferred Pujara)
Rahane
Kohli
Rayudu
MSD
Jadeja
Bhuvi
I Pandey/A Mishra
Aaron
Shami

msp83 wrote:Think Ojha clearly is a much better bowler then either Jalaj Saxena and Iqbal Abdullah.
Saxena had a pretty good Ranji season with the ball, but his overall record is nothing much to write about. As for Abdullah, he's not even Mumbai's first choice, he has been their 3rd choice spinner behind Dabholkar and Pravin Tambe.
The top 5 contenders in my view are
Ravindra Jadeja
Ravichandran Ashwin
Pragyan Ojha
Amit Mishra
Harbhajan Singh.
I don't favor going back to recently inconsistent, approaching 34 Harbhajan again. The other spin prospects to watchout for are
Vishal Dabholkar of Mumbai, the most consistent Ranji spinner this season.
Akshar Patel of Gujarat, an upcoming 19 player, Patel can bat as well.
Parwez Rasool of Jammu & Kashmir. Rasool hasn't had as good a season as he had last year, still he was there or thereabout, and the guy is a real deal as an all-rounder.
Kuldeep Yadav, the U-19 Chinaman spinner is yet to break into the Uttar Pradesh Ranji side, but he's one to look forward to.

The underlying basis here is batting skills of the spinner are the guide towards
because overseas whether it's ashwin or Ojha ...successful in Indian conditions are severly reduced overseas.

Therefore we pick spinner sbased on their batting strengths and hence my Hiaerarchy is following:

1) Jadeja
2) Saxena
3) Rasool
4) Mishra
5) Iqbal

Giving additional significance to the batting abilities of spinners in seaming conditions is fair enough, but the spinner has to be able to do a decent job with the ball. Jadeja has proved he can do that. But the likes of Saxena and Abdullah do not have domestic records that suggest they are the real deal.

msp83 wrote:Giving additional significance to the batting abilities of spinners in seaming conditions is fair enough, but the spinner has to be able to do a decent job with the ball. Jadeja has proved he can do that. But the likes of Saxena and Abdullah do not have domestic records that suggest they are the real deal.

Look at Saxena's A record

anmd Look at Saxena's record this season

Look at Rasool's A record and this season record

Abdullah is low on my list at No.5

Saxena doesn't even average 2 wickets per match. A batting average of 36 and a bowling average of 33 doesn't suggest international class for me. Said that, he has had a fine season this year.
I certainly rate Rasool, not just as a stop-gap arrangement in overseas conditions. An average of 32 with the ball and 39 with the bat suggests there is further room for improvement, But Rasool is a bowler in the classical mode of an offspinner, and his batting has been coming along, And he's only 24.

msp83 wrote:Saxena doesn't even average 2 wickets per match. A batting average of 36 and a bowling average of 33 doesn't suggest international class for me. Said that, he has had a fine season this year.
I certainly rate Rasool, not just as  a stop-gap arrangement in overseas conditions. An average of 32 with the ball and 39 with the bat suggests there is further room for improvement, But Rasool is a bowler in the classical mode of an offspinner, and his batting has been coming along, And he's only 24.

so Saxena has delivered last year when he was played in A games...and he has been delivering now.

between last one year and career average I would go for the last one year which is better because to me that shows he is a much improved performer now.

so we have a pool of 4 guys ( Iqbal being lat in the queue) who can step in to give us back-up spinners.
Midn you we are only looking for back-ups for Jadeja should he be injured or should one or two of the next 10 overseas tests needs a 2nd spinner

If India need a 2nd spinner in these away tests, it has to be because the tracks would have something for the spinner. In such a situation, there is no need for a bits and pieces spinner, they need a proper one. In that situation, I won't look beyond Ashwin and Ojha who are proven performers in proper spinning conditions. But if it is a case of nonavailability of Jadeja on a seaming track, Ashwin remains my first option, followed by Ojha, and then Rasool. Among Rasool, Saxena and Abdullah, I feel Rasool is the better bowler, and as it happens, the better batsman as well.

Mat Inns Balls Runs Wkts BBI BBM Ave Econ SR 4w 5w 10
First-class 39 63 7822 3482 122 6/42 11/86 28.54 2.67 64.1 5 4 1

actually Iqbal abdulla's bowling record is not bad...and given that he is a handy fighting lower order bat also...he should get to play some A cricket..and he is only 24

He should first get some regular opportunities with Mumbai, or move to another Ranji side. Need to put in some consistent performances to get into the selectorial frame.

msp83 wrote:He should first get some regular opportunities with Mumbai, or move to another Ranji side. Need to put in some consistent performances to get into the selectorial frame.

Mumbai's selections are weird.........they had a great seam bowler Balwinder singh Sadhu.......young and very good.....and now they don't pick him...even when Zaheer and Kulkarni are not availbale.


Dhabolkar has played all games so seemingly their first choice spinner......2nd spinner is a bit of a musical chair between Tambhe and Iqbal who has 15 wkts in 2 games.

let's see how he does in knock outs

Mumbai are different beast ones they are into the knockouts, and now they have Zaheer back from international duties, and Nayar returning from injury to further strengthen the lineup. Who can stop them now?

Mumbai , Kolkata and Bangalore have been awarded home games as QF much to the protest of others.
because this was an in principle decision before the starts that knock outs will be on neutral venues.

Kolkata, Bangalore, Mumbai and Punjab are looking like the top-4

well these Kiwis are showing good batting form vs. WI......and their bowling ain't bad either...India has a tough task at and especially if they make the mistake of underestimating the NZ side

Raina under the scanner feel aakash chopra talking to Mid-Day

http://www.mid-day.com/sports/2014/jan/040114-sports-cricket-suresh-raina-mush-bare-his-claws-in-kiwiland.htm

The churning that began in Indian cricket with the exclusion of senior pros like Virender Sehwag, Gautam Gambhir and Harbhajan Singh last year carries on in 2014, and the first player to be left out of the side was Yuvraj Singh, who didn’t make the cut in the 16-member ODI squad that will begin battle in the cool climes of New Zealand in a five-match ODI series later this month

It remains to be seen what the future holds for the above-mentioned stalwarts, but there’s another player in the New Zealand-bound squad whose performance will be followed closely. Yes, Suresh Raina is under pressure after a succession of indifferent performances in the year gone by, and it would be interesting to observe how he responds to this lean patch. Thirty nine, DNB, 17, DNB, 16, 28, 0, 23, 34, 14, 36 and DNB is the sequence of scores Raina has strung together since the first ODI against Australia in Pune on October 13.

Unimpressive
They amount to 207 runs off nine innings at an average of 23.00 against the Aussies, the West Indies and South Africa. These statistics surely don’t point to anything spectacular. If anything, they suggest that it’s time Raina finds the groove, lest he meets the fate of some of his more illustrious former teammates.

Interestingly, Raina’s poor form has put paid to the Indian think-tank’s strategy wherein he was to be the man they would turn to fill the crucial No 4 slot in case of Yuvraj’s failure in the run up to the 2015 World Cup in Australia and New Zealand. But this plan, which was initiated against the Australians late last year, has clearly gone haywire and skipper MS Dhoni and coach Duncan Fletcher have been left searching for a Plan B. “Obviously, the debate surrounding Raina’s place in the Indian squad is logical, given his indifferent form. I would like to say that he is fortunate to still be part of the XI,” former India opener Aakash Chopra told MiD DAY yesterday.

Raina in his last 12 ODIs:
Matches: 12
Innings: 9
Runs: 207
Highest: 39
Average: 23.00

“Raina’s numbers are not too impressive and he will clearly have to start scoring because the New Zealand series could prove to be a make-or-break tour for him,” he added. Chopra, however, insisted that there is no point dissecting Raina’s performance to the last shred and the only way he can still stay in contention for a place in the 2015 World Cup squad is by performing consistently over the coming months.

Try Rahane out
Chopra believes Ajinjya Rahane, who was impressive in the two Test matches against SA, should be given an extended run at No 4. “I feel Rahane should occupy that place now that he is in brilliant form. He has waited in the wings too long to be missing out on these opportunities.

Rahane should be the number 4. And Raina will certainly have to deliver during this tour, or else Rayudu or Binny might come in. And I would also like Pujara to come into the ODI framework as well, could come in for some established flat track bullies.

msp83 wrote:Rahane should be the number 4. And Raina will certainly have to deliver during this tour, or else Rayudu or Binny might come in. And I would also like Pujara to come into the ODI framework as well, could come in for some established flat track bullies.

I believe selectors did not want to bring Pujara if he wasn't gonna play.

because Rahane and Rayadu are ahead of him.

if Raina was to drop from 15...then Pujara would be in

Not sure Rahane is suited to batting at 4 in ODIs. If he plays, which he should, he should open and throw Nohit back down to 4 or Rahane at 3 and Virat at 4. Ideally, Pujara should come in for the "Talented" Nohit and Rayudu for Raina. Raina's continued selection due to his CSK connect is absolutely disgraceful. He is an awful batsman against fast bowling and has been performing poorly even at home of late. Its disgraceful that he is still a part of the squad. Ashwin needs to be shown the door only. His supporters may argue that he has had only 1 bad Test but as far as the limited overs formats are concerned, he has been consistently poor for a while now.

The less said about Ishant the better.

My XI :

S Dhawan
Pujara
Rahane/Kohli
Kohli/Rahane
Rayudu
Dhoni (c-wk)
Jadeja
R Dhawan
Bhuvi
Aaron
Shami

Backups

Rohit Sharma/ (alternatives?)
Sanju Samson (backup WK)
Ojha/Mishra/Bhajji/Rasool
I Pandey/Sandeep Sharma/D Kulkarni/ ANother

Would love to know your thoughts, chaps!

Now that they've selected Stuart Binny, (I wouldn't have) they should give him a few opportunities. Think MSD should now bat 5 and use Binny at 6. If Pujara is to play, think he should bat in the top 3. Virat Kohli has been India's best ever Number 3 ODI batsman but he can do a terrific job at 4 as well. I would give 'Tallented' Sharma one more go as ODI opener after his performances in 2013, and if he fails, would be done with him. No way should he be brought back to the middle order, he'll only destabilize it and add nothing of value.
Think Rahane could be a very handy bet at 4, though Kohli could be more destructive latter in the innings. But as I said, Kohli has been the best ever number 3 and it is a difficult call to move him down.
As for the bowling, the only thing they can do is to do away with Ishant 'Potential' Sharma, but for India, its the batting that's going to win more games. Jadeja, Shami and Bhuvneshwar should play for sure. As for the rest, they can give opportunities to Rishi Dhawan and Ishwar Pandey, and also look at Varun Aaron, Irfan Pathan when he restarts bowling and if he finds some form, Praveen Kumar when fit, Amit Mishra and R Ashwin.
I won't go back to Harbhajan, and I won't consider Samson as yet, needs to develop his game more at the domestic level, and the lad doesn't keep in Ranji games.

Whats wrong in Harbhajan for ODIs? Even at his worst, he was at least economical even though the wickets had dried up. Ashwin is neither picking wkts nor keeping the runs down.

Agree about Samson but I don't see any options as backup keepers. Maybe just ask Rayudu to take the gloves in emergency. Won't go back to DK surely?

Rayudu has been in the ODI squad for the last 5 series now. Surely he deserves a go at number 5 ahead of the likes of Binny?

Binny was an absolute dud on the 'A' Tour to SA, whereas Rayudu did very well. Binny IMO is not a top 6 batsman at int'l level. 7 is about as high as he can bat and he is not a 10 overs bowler now. So I really don't see how he fits into an ODI side.

ShankyCricket wrote:Rayudu has been in the ODI squad for the last 5 series now. Surely he deserves a go at number 5 ahead of the likes of Binny?

Binny was an absolute dud on the 'A' Tour to SA, whereas Rayudu did very well. Binny IMO is not a top 6 batsman at int'l level. 7 is about as high as he can bat and he is not a 10 overs bowler now. So I really don't see how he fits into an ODI side.

Yeah, Binny's selection doesn't fill me with confidence either. But Rayudu somehow hasn't fully convinced me really. I know he hasn't had a fair run yet, but perhaps it is the indiscretions from his past or the middling performances in First Class cricket, despite a good technique, he somehow hasn't got me too excited. And on a more cricketing front, is he the one to smash a 20 ball 40 at 6?

Trust me msp, he's top quality.

I also wish you would stop defending Ashwin at least in ODIs. His ODI form ATM is far worse than Harbhajan's when the latter was dropped.

ShankyCricket wrote:Whats wrong in Harbhajan for ODIs? Even at his worst, he was at least economical even though the wickets had dried up. Ashwin is neither picking wkts nor keeping the runs down.

Harbhajan presented no wickettaking threat in ODIs for some time leading up to his delayed dropping. Don't think his darts would present the batsman with too many problems in the 4 fielder era on flat roads in India, just as Ashwin wasn't able to have much of an impact either. Said that, Ashwin was the better of India's many death over bowlers even on these roads. Ashwin doesn't offer a satisfactory option in my view, but don't think going back to the 34 year old Harbhajan who hasn't done much of note for the last 2 years is the answer. Jadeja for now should be India's number 1 spinner in all conditions, and they should bring in Rishi Dhawan or another all-rounder into the mix soon to perhaps offer a 4th seamer option besides Bhuvneshwar and Shami, and one of Aaron, Yadav, Pandey, Unadkat and PK. Ashwin and Mishra will remain in my squad, though I am not really satisfied with both of them. Wish they give Rasool a bit of a run with the ODI side to start with, to see whether he can fill in that void

ShankyCricket wrote:Trust me msp, he's top quality.

I also wish you would stop defending Ashwin at least in ODIs. His ODI form ATM is far worse than Harbhajan's when the latter was dropped.

I also feel more or less the same though I have my serious doubts about his finisher role strongpoints, but he has given me this sense of being a serious underachiever. The lad is very talented, and unlike some other FTBs, can perform in tough conditions in domestic cricket, but his overall record should have been a lot better for a player of his ability. Perhaps he's one in the Michael Vaughan-Marcus Trescothick mode, international cricket might bring the best out of him.

Rasool has a golden chance to impress in Ranji quarters.

Tiwary can start his comeback if he does well in Ranji and Bengal goes further,
Zol, Nayar, punjab seamers, Iqbal can stand up and be noticed.
especially keep and eye on Imtiaz of UP and Sharath of Karantaka lead bowlers for their sides so far

KPF, don't think Imtiaz or Sharath are really quick though anyone in Karnataka would be quicker than Vinay!.

msp83 wrote:KPF, don't think Imtiaz or Sharath are really quick though anyone in Karnataka would be quicker than Vinay!.

these two are 130-135kph
as is sandeep Warrier on the higher end and Sandeep sharma at the lower end of the range

I know that's not fast...but if they are exceptionally good swing bowlers..then they are better than the neither fast nor swing type Ishant Sharma.

Sandeep can certainly swing it. Don't think the others are standouts in that regard.

Sandeep Warrier is fast 140+ reportedly at his best.
Sandeep sharma is the swing bowler and one of the best in trade......may make sense as a horses for courses to take him to England