The FA Cup

First topic message reminder :

Well, nothing on here much for discussion so thought this could begin.

At the moment Westisbest is probably pulling his hair out, whilst Wigan are marching on towards there second FA Cup in a row.

socal1976 wrote:

Hammersmith harrier wrote:

FreekShow wrote:

Champagne_Socialist wrote:yeh you are sounding like liverpool fans talking about your history hahaha

We actually don't talk about our history. You guys do and develop a chip on your shoulders over it.

But thanks for reminding us of our 5 European cups anyway.

Strange how opinions change because of half a good season isn't it, I forget we should have set such lofty expectations over the past 10 years just to get into the top four. Mock United all you want CS but I wouldn't change our situation for anyones right now, the 13 premier league titles and two champions league do mean something because I remember each and everyone of them. Whether it be Bruce's double against Wednesday, Solskjaer's winner against Bayern, Van Der Sar saving Anelka's penalty, Rooney scoring against Wigan. I can unlike fans of most clubs say I lived through my club winning 23 major honours, it doesn't alter this season but nor does this season alter the past.

Great, we don't try to take your enjoyment of your team and your memories; why do you take such glee at making a load of BS and nonsense to detract from Arsenal's victory today. All you want to do is rain on Gunner fan's parade, no one claimed we won anything but are we not entitled to enjoy our team only you glorious United Fans are entitled to enjoy your accomplishments. Don't make up a load of nonsense about 10 first team spurs players being out, when you and everyone else knows it is a flat out lie to cheapen our enjoyment of beating our cross town rivals in an FA cup tie. Every time someone says a nice word about ARsenal there you pop up, but they have not won anything in 8 years crap. Or even worse you make up a lot horse dung about 10 missing Spurs starters.

As a neutral, I rather enjoyed the game for its own sake. I'm not committed to either side and therefore have that luxury.

Arsenal deserved to win, in my opinion. They seemed to "want it" more. Spurs weren't disgraced, they were simply second best on the day.

Both Arsenal goals were well taken and Lloris had to make several good saves too, or the score would have been higher.

The only disappointment for me, was Walcott's unnecessary and provocative "2- 0" gesture in front of the Spurs fans. It undoubtedly went down well with Arsenal supporters, and in truth, I quite enjoy a bit of "edge" in a match. But for Arsenal fans to boo Adeboyor throughout the game for his similarly stupid goal celebration when he was a Manchester City player, scoring against Arsenal, and then for them to cheer Walcott for pretty much the same thing doesn't show Arsenal up in a good light.

A good game though, and the best team on the day won. Which is as it should be.

Walcott does have an annoying personality it seems. The gesture was childish to say the least.

FreekShow wrote:

The Fourth Lion wrote:

FreekShow wrote:

Dolphin Ziggler wrote:

The Fourth Lion wrote:

Dolphin Ziggler wrote:

John wrote:No Cabaye, Krul, Coloccini, Remy, Debuchy

What did we expect really. We're never going to win the cup but at least let's have a decent run this year, given our position. We've endured going out to Brighton twice in two years & now Cardiff at home. Pretty poor.

Hello Wigan. More pointedly, you're probably never going to win anything but a cup, so glory first. Shame, Pardew probably has the 2006 FA Cup final as his biggest regret in football, you'd think he would love to put that heartache to bed

Not quite right.  Pardew said when he was a player at Charlton, that his biggest regret in football was losing the cup final with Crystal Palace in 1990.  A sentiment that I'm guessing might not quite have resonated in the same way with his audience at the time.

Of course, that was before he became a manager and took West Ham to the final, so perhaps his feelings may have changed with time, but it is an interesting question:   Would you rather win a cup final as a player or a manager..?   I know what I'd prefer.

It is probably up there joint, I would imagine the West Ham final may be the most painful as we Frak deserved to win it, and for some reason kicked the ball back to them after we had kicked it out for one of their players. To then lose on penalties. Saying that, the 1990 final was very close to with the replay. Guys been bloody unlucky.

You were awesome that day Chris, no doubt. I thought we were dead and buried but then our resident DJ beater pulled a rabbit out of a hat.

I'd say that Pardew leading that Hammers side to a FA Cup final triumph slightly beats the feat as a player.

Losing the final was a triumph?  I bet it didn't feel like one at the time.

No I meant that had Pardew led West Ham to an FA Cup triumph would top winning it as a player. Triumph = win, last time I heard anyway...

I trust you gathered this anyway.

Ahhhh, right. No, actually, I read it a completely different way. But hey... no biggie.

FreekShow wrote:That 4-3 in 1990 was the last time I seriously cried after a football match Myst.

Helluva game mind. We beat you 9-0 earlier that season which makes it even more painful!

and that is what made it so great for us. that loss was the lowest point ever.

The Fourth Lion wrote:

FreekShow wrote:

The Fourth Lion wrote:

FreekShow wrote:

Dolphin Ziggler wrote:

The Fourth Lion wrote:

Dolphin Ziggler wrote:

John wrote:No Cabaye, Krul, Coloccini, Remy, Debuchy

What did we expect really. We're never going to win the cup but at least let's have a decent run this year, given our position. We've endured going out to Brighton twice in two years & now Cardiff at home. Pretty poor.

Hello Wigan. More pointedly, you're probably never going to win anything but a cup, so glory first. Shame, Pardew probably has the 2006 FA Cup final as his biggest regret in football, you'd think he would love to put that heartache to bed

Not quite right.  Pardew said when he was a player at Charlton, that his biggest regret in football was losing the cup final with Crystal Palace in 1990.  A sentiment that I'm guessing might not quite have resonated in the same way with his audience at the time.

Of course, that was before he became a manager and took West Ham to the final, so perhaps his feelings may have changed with time, but it is an interesting question:   Would you rather win a cup final as a player or a manager..?   I know what I'd prefer.

It is probably up there joint, I would imagine the West Ham final may be the most painful as we Frak deserved to win it, and for some reason kicked the ball back to them after we had kicked it out for one of their players. To then lose on penalties. Saying that, the 1990 final was very close to with the replay. Guys been bloody unlucky.

You were awesome that day Chris, no doubt. I thought we were dead and buried but then our resident DJ beater pulled a rabbit out of a hat.

I'd say that Pardew leading that Hammers side to a FA Cup final triumph slightly beats the feat as a player.

Losing the final was a triumph?  I bet it didn't feel like one at the time.

No I meant that had Pardew led West Ham to an FA Cup triumph would top winning it as a player. Triumph = win, last time I heard anyway...

I trust you gathered this anyway.

Ahhhh, right.   No, actually, I read it a completely different way.  But hey... no biggie.  

I forgive you Lion.   

Hammersmith harrier wrote:Kaboul, Vertonghen, Naughton, Paulinho, Townsend, Defo, Lamela, Sigurdsson and Holtby are all injured, so it's 9 first team players out at the moment so hardly a flat out lie. Football being the squad game it is requires rotation so no premier league manager would want to be starting the same 11 in the fa cup he played 3 days earlier in the league.

Me stating that Arsenal haven't won anything in 8 years is no less crap than you pointing out we're currently 7th in the table.

Lamela was not playing when he was healthy. Defoe is a first teamer? see you made up that load of BS. Defoe is now a first teamer and Lamela has platooned with Lennon  So it is a lie? That would be like me claiming Bendtner as a first team. The fact is that there are 11 starters in a football match. Dawson, Soldado, Eriksen, Dembele, Chirches and Lloris would start on any Spurs side regardless of health. So at most generous, even if you include Lamela they have 5 first teamers out. Your 10 first team selections is a flat out myth pulled out of your dirty place. And this make up post is even more laughable when you include a future Toronto FC striker as a first team striker for Spurs. And Arsenal have plenty of injuries of their own.

Not to mention that Adebayor has been a starter since Sherwood took over so they have 5 first teamers out by the most generous count. Last time I checked 10>5.

mystiroakey wrote:

FreekShow wrote:That 4-3 in 1990 was the last time I seriously cried after a football match Myst.

Helluva game mind. We beat you 9-0 earlier that season which makes it even more painful!

and that is what made it so great for us. that loss was the lowest point ever.

Remember the final that year. Ian Wright went into it carrying a slight niggle. Benched, came on and scored a brace (I believe?) and the rest is history.

Damn Lee Martin. Whatever happened to him?

I actually agree with the soccer saturday lads that the FA cup 3rd round should be at the end of january.

More so that they should do away with replays. Extra time, pens if need be.

Less games to worry about then.

westisbest wrote:I actually agree with the soccer saturday lads that the FA cup 3rd round should be at the end of january.

More so that they should do away with replays. Extra time, pens if need be.

Less games to worry about then.

I'd midweek it Westy like the league cup.

Yeah penalty shootouts instead of replays would also work better.

The Fourth Lion wrote:

socal1976 wrote:

Hammersmith harrier wrote:

FreekShow wrote:

Champagne_Socialist wrote:yeh you are sounding like liverpool fans talking about your history hahaha

We actually don't talk about our history. You guys do and develop a chip on your shoulders over it.

But thanks for reminding us of our 5 European cups anyway.

Strange how opinions change because of half a good season isn't it, I forget we should have set such lofty expectations over the past 10 years just to get into the top four. Mock United all you want CS but I wouldn't change our situation for anyones right now, the 13 premier league titles and two champions league do mean something because I remember each and everyone of them. Whether it be Bruce's double against Wednesday, Solskjaer's winner against Bayern, Van Der Sar saving Anelka's penalty, Rooney scoring against Wigan. I can unlike fans of most clubs say I lived through my club winning 23 major honours, it doesn't alter this season but nor does this season alter the past.

Great, we don't try to take your enjoyment of your team and your memories; why do you take such glee at making a load of BS and nonsense to detract from Arsenal's victory today. All you want to do is rain on Gunner fan's parade, no one claimed we won anything but are we not entitled to enjoy our team only you glorious United Fans are entitled to enjoy your accomplishments. Don't make up a load of nonsense about 10 first team spurs players being out, when you and everyone else knows it is a flat out lie to cheapen our enjoyment of beating our cross town rivals in an FA cup tie. Every time someone says a nice word about ARsenal there you pop up, but they have not won anything in 8 years crap. Or even worse you make up a lot horse dung about 10 missing Spurs starters.

As a neutral, I rather enjoyed the game for its own sake.  I'm not committed to either side and therefore have that luxury.

Arsenal deserved to win, in my opinion.  They seemed to "want it" more.  Spurs weren't disgraced, they were simply second best on the day.

Both Arsenal goals were well taken and Lloris had to make several good saves too, or the score would have been higher.

The only disappointment for me, was Walcott's unnecessary and provocative "2- 0" gesture in front of the Spurs fans.  It undoubtedly went down well with Arsenal supporters, and in truth, I quite enjoy a bit of "edge" in a match.  But for Arsenal fans to boo Adeboyor throughout the game for his similarly stupid goal celebration when he was a Manchester City player, scoring against Arsenal, and then for them to cheer Walcott for pretty much the same thing doesn't show Arsenal up in a good light.

A good game though, and the best team on the day won.  Which is as it should be.

Nice post agree with your assessment. However in regards to Theo, he was getting carted off for an injury and the spurs fans were chucking bottles and coins at him. They showed photos of the stewards with a handfull of coins, to me that justifies his gesture which was done with a smile on his face and was not obscene. Fans should also comport themselves with respect as well, especially when a player is injured and being carted off. I doubt theo would have done that if he was not being abused and pelted with coins.

FreekShow wrote:

mystiroakey wrote:

FreekShow wrote:That 4-3 in 1990 was the last time I seriously cried after a football match Myst.

Helluva game mind. We beat you 9-0 earlier that season which makes it even more painful!

and that is what made it so great for us. that loss was the lowest point ever.

Remember the final that year. Ian Wright went into it carrying a slight niggle. Benched, came on a scored a brace (I believe?) and the rest is history.

Damn Lee Martin. Whatever happened to him?

the final killed me mate. 1990 hurt me in a way not many can understand.Palace and then England losing out the way we did. I cried during both loses.

I think I took up a lot more golf after that year. Infact I didn't go back to any palace games until I was about 16-17

You don't quite understand the squad rotation nature of modern football do you?

All nine players I listed are first team squad players, not all of them would have played but it still limits Sherwood's team choice especially options off of the bench. It's no longer a 11 man sport, it's a squad game of over 20 players so say 9 first team players are injured is a true reflection of the situation.

FreekShow wrote:

mystiroakey wrote:

FreekShow wrote:That 4-3 in 1990 was the last time I seriously cried after a football match Myst.

Helluva game mind. We beat you 9-0 earlier that season which makes it even more painful!

and that is what made it so great for us. that loss was the lowest point ever.

Remember the final that year. Ian Wright went into it carrying a slight niggle. Benched, came on and scored a brace (I believe?) and the rest is history.

Damn Lee Martin. Whatever happened to him?

That 1990 final was truly one of the Wembley greats. Ian Wright did, indeed, score twice and damned near won it for Palace. Palace led 3 - 2 before Mark Hughes scored United's equaliser in the last minute of extra time to take the final to a replay.

In the strange way that these things seems to synchronise (bearing in mind that Alan Pardew is central to this particular thread), Wright came on as a substitute in the final for Alan Pardew who in turn had scored Palace's winning goal in the Semi Final win against Liverpool.

You couldn't make it up, could you..?

"The only disappointment for me, was Walcott's unnecessary and provocative "2- 0" gesture in front of the Spurs fans."

you do realise that he was pelted by coins from the Tottenham fans dont you!!

Hammersmith harrier wrote:You don't quite understand the squad rotation nature of modern football do you?

All nine players I listed are first team squad players, not all of them would have played but it still limits Sherwood's team choice especially options off of the bench. It's no longer a 11 man sport, it's a squad game of over 20 players so say 9 first team players are injured is a true reflection of the situation.

No a large number of the players you chose are not a first choice for Sherwood. That is what a first team player means, when you have to field your best 11. I understand squad rotations and those players are not first choice or first team players because they happen to start in a league cup match or the odd league match. Lets just agree to disagree, because frankly you made a ludicrous statement and are dancing around trying to justify it, I fully understand what a first team player is and Defoe is not it for Tottenham that is why he is leaving. That would be like me calling Bendntner a first teamer for Arsenal. He is their 3rd choice forward.

You're plainly very wrong Socal, most of those players were injured before Sherwood took over so what his actual first team is anyone's guess. At 2-0 Defoe would probably have come in an effort to change the game, there wasn't that option available.

mystiroakey wrote:"The only disappointment for me, was Walcott's unnecessary and provocative "2- 0" gesture in front of the Spurs fans."

you do realise that he was pelted by coins from the Tottenham fans dont you!!

Yes I did and of course I would not attempt to condone such behaviour.

But as I recall seeing the incident unfold, Walcott made his gesture first and that was what provoked the coin throwing. Now, two wrongs don't make a right so there was no excuse for the Spurs fans doing that, but Walcott, who has been a top flight professional for long enough to know better, was immature, irresponsible and.... basically.... behaved like a prat. No excuses.

I'm not going to rabbit about "role models" and all that shtick.... We all know how that goes....... but perhaps if one of the stretcher bearers carrying his poor, wounded body away had had his eye taken out by one of those coins, I wonder how much responsibility for that Theo Walcott would have felt.

Probably none at all.

The Fourth Lion wrote:

mystiroakey wrote:"The only disappointment for me, was Walcott's unnecessary and provocative "2- 0" gesture in front of the Spurs fans."

you do realise that he was pelted by coins from the Tottenham fans dont you!!

Yes I did and of course I would not attempt to condone such behaviour.  

But as I recall seeing the incident unfold, Walcott made his gesture first and that was what provoked the coin throwing.  Now, two wrongs don't make a right so there was no excuse for the Spurs fans doing that, but Walcott, who has been a top flight professional for long enough to know better,  was immature, irresponsible and.... basically.... behaved like a prat.   No excuses.

I'm not going to rabbit about "role models" and all that shtick.... We all know how that goes....... but perhaps if one of the stretcher bearers carrying his poor, wounded body away had had his eye taken out by one of those coins, I wonder how much responsibility for that Theo Walcott would have felt.

Probably none at all.

Apparently Walcott is known to be intelligent and articulate but his antics force me to beg to differ.

Don't like the bloke.

The Fourth Lion wrote:

mystiroakey wrote:"The only disappointment for me, was Walcott's unnecessary and provocative "2- 0" gesture in front of the Spurs fans."

you do realise that he was pelted by coins from the Tottenham fans dont you!!

Yes I did and of course I would not attempt to condone such behaviour.  

But as I recall seeing the incident unfold, Walcott made his gesture first and that was what provoked the coin throwing.  Now, two wrongs don't make a right so there was no excuse for the Spurs fans doing that, but Walcott, who has been a top flight professional for long enough to know better,  was immature, irresponsible and.... basically.... behaved like a prat.   No excuses.

I'm not going to rabbit about "role models" and all that shtick.... We all know how that goes....... but perhaps if one of the stretcher bearers carrying his poor, wounded body away had had his eye taken out by one of those coins, I wonder how much responsibility for that Theo Walcott would have felt.

Probably none at all.

I think it was before and after

mystiroakey wrote:

The Fourth Lion wrote:

mystiroakey wrote:"The only disappointment for me, was Walcott's unnecessary and provocative "2- 0" gesture in front of the Spurs fans."

you do realise that he was pelted by coins from the Tottenham fans dont you!!

Yes I did and of course I would not attempt to condone such behaviour.  

But as I recall seeing the incident unfold, Walcott made his gesture first and that was what provoked the coin throwing.  Now, two wrongs don't make a right so there was no excuse for the Spurs fans doing that, but Walcott, who has been a top flight professional for long enough to know better,  was immature, irresponsible and.... basically.... behaved like a prat.   No excuses.

I'm not going to rabbit about "role models" and all that shtick.... We all know how that goes....... but perhaps if one of the stretcher bearers carrying his poor, wounded body away had had his eye taken out by one of those coins, I wonder how much responsibility for that Theo Walcott would have felt.

Probably none at all.

I think it was before and after

I don't recall seeing any coins thrown beforehand, although it may be possible that I simply didn't see them. It would be pointless asking Arsene Wenger if he saw anything. (Or would it..?)

But I think you would agree that when all is said and done it was an act of stupidity that detracted from what was otherwise a good game.

I call this sort of thing the "Dead Cat Syndrome". We have a good game of football and an incident occurs that is like somebody throwing a dead cat on the pitch. Everybody talks about the cat and forgets everything else that happened in the game.

It also cannot be denied that the stretcher bearers were put at risk of injury by Walcott's actions. Seriously.... any one of them could have been affected by a missile from the crowd. Did Theo give a moment's thought for their safety..? I don't think so.

Hammersmith harrier wrote:You're plainly very wrong Socal, most of those players were injured before Sherwood took over so what his actual first team is anyone's guess. At 2-0 Defoe would probably have come in an effort to change the game, there wasn't that option available.

If it is anyone's guess then stop making assumptions that they are first teamers.

The facts are that sherwood has played certain players in all 5 games he has been in charge and the players he played at Arsenal were the same players that played in all 4 previous games under him.

It's not an assumption, are they or are they not first team players, I'll give you a helping hand there's a list on the premier league website.

"But I think you would agree that when all is said and done it was an act of stupidity that detracted from what was otherwise a good game."

no i cant mate- the Tottenham fans threw coins at him and he retaliated in a pretty non aggressive way. A funny way. All the reports suggest he did it after they launched an attack on him. fair play.

The Fourth Lion wrote:

socal1976 wrote:

Hammersmith harrier wrote:

FreekShow wrote:

Champagne_Socialist wrote:yeh you are sounding like liverpool fans talking about your history hahaha

We actually don't talk about our history. You guys do and develop a chip on your shoulders over it.

But thanks for reminding us of our 5 European cups anyway.

Strange how opinions change because of half a good season isn't it, I forget we should have set such lofty expectations over the past 10 years just to get into the top four. Mock United all you want CS but I wouldn't change our situation for anyones right now, the 13 premier league titles and two champions league do mean something because I remember each and everyone of them. Whether it be Bruce's double against Wednesday, Solskjaer's winner against Bayern, Van Der Sar saving Anelka's penalty, Rooney scoring against Wigan. I can unlike fans of most clubs say I lived through my club winning 23 major honours, it doesn't alter this season but nor does this season alter the past.

Great, we don't try to take your enjoyment of your team and your memories; why do you take such glee at making a load of BS and nonsense to detract from Arsenal's victory today. All you want to do is rain on Gunner fan's parade, no one claimed we won anything but are we not entitled to enjoy our team only you glorious United Fans are entitled to enjoy your accomplishments. Don't make up a load of nonsense about 10 first team spurs players being out, when you and everyone else knows it is a flat out lie to cheapen our enjoyment of beating our cross town rivals in an FA cup tie. Every time someone says a nice word about ARsenal there you pop up, but they have not won anything in 8 years crap. Or even worse you make up a lot horse dung about 10 missing Spurs starters.

As a neutral, I rather enjoyed the game for its own sake.  I'm not committed to either side and therefore have that luxury.

I didnt watch that Gerrard goal for over two years. Still hurts, I left the pitch of a cup final of my own to watch it, refused to take a penalty when I was on in case it jinxed the game.   

mystiroakey wrote:"But I think you would agree that when all is said and done it was an act of stupidity that detracted from what was otherwise a good game."

no i cant mate- the Tottenham fans threw coins at him and he retaliated in a pretty non aggressive way. A funny way. All the reports suggest he did it after they launched an attack on him. fair play.

Hmmmm.... well, I'll take your word for the coins being thrown beforehand.   Or perhaps we should agree to disagree.  

As for the humour of the situation, I'm not quite sure that the Spurs fans were splitting their sides laughing at Walcott's jest.  I can hear them now  "Oh, look... there's that Walcott chap shoving the scoreline down our throats.  What a wag, eh..?"

I could just see Chamakh getting away with that at, say, The Den.

Champagne_Socialist wrote:

Duty281 wrote:

Champagne_Socialist wrote:

Duty281 wrote:

Champagne_Socialist wrote:

Duty281 wrote:

Champagne_Socialist wrote:

Duty281 wrote:

Champagne_Socialist wrote:is everyone finally accepting that Arsenal are the real deal this season?

Steady on lad. These four consecutive fixtures in the PL will let us know if Arsenal are the real deal or not:

Tottenham v Arsenal Sat 15 Mar
Chelsea v Arsenal Sat 22 Mar
Arsenal v Man City Sat 29 Mar
Everton v Arsenal Sat 5 Apr

I'd echo Freek in that I'd rather Arsenal win the league than either Chelsea or City, but I simply don't think they will. Lack of depth in defence and attack will cost them. 3rd place I reckon.

people were saying we would falter on december when we hd to oplat city, chelsea and everton and united and we are still top.

City 6-3 Arsenal
Arsenal 0-0 Chelsea
Arsenal 1-1 Everton
Manchester United 1-0 Arsenal

Bit of faltering there. Still top...but how long for?

lets look at United's results in corresponding fixtures.

man u 1-2 tottenham
man u 0-0 chelsea
man u 1-0 arsenal
man cit 4-1 man u
man u 0-1 everton

You're competing with Citeh and Chelsea for the title, possibly Liverpool as well, but not United.

And that is faltering by Arsenal - it's 10 points dropped.

i wouldn't call it faltering as they were all top teams, faltering would be losing to mid table teams.

Well...you've lost to United in that context then. And Villa.

You can never expect to win the title unless you beat the big teams, something Arsenal haven't done with the possible exception of Liverpool.

what do ou mean possible exception of liverpool? You just said we were competing with them for the league so of course they are a big team we have beaten. We have also beaten tottenham twice.

United are not a mid table team, they are just having a bad patch. and Villa beat us before we had ozil and flamini who are the 2 major reasons why we are top of the league.

I mean possible exception. I said they were possibly competing for the title, so not definitely a big team.

Maybe a bit harsh to call United a mid-table side, but they're certainly not a team (in this form at least) that potential title winners should be losing to. And you still lost to Villa.

The Fourth Lion wrote:

mystiroakey wrote:"But I think you would agree that when all is said and done it was an act of stupidity that detracted from what was otherwise a good game."

no i cant mate- the Tottenham fans threw coins at him and he retaliated in a pretty non aggressive way. A funny way. All the reports suggest he did it after they launched an attack on him. fair play.

Hmmmm.... well, I'll take your word for the coins being thrown beforehand.   Or perhaps we should agree to disagree.  

As for the humour of the situation, I'm not quite sure that the Spurs fans were splitting their sides laughing at Walcott's jest.  I can hear them now  "Oh, look... there's that Walcott chap shoving the scoreline down our throats.  What a wag, eh..?"

I could just see Chamakh getting away with that at, say, The Den.

Hardly a vicious jest. Just two fingers to indicate the score.

Disappointingly, Theo didn't get the two fingers the right way round.   

you cant start blaming a player for laughing at fans that are pelting him with missiles. You cant blame Walcott if match official's get caught in the crossfire.

And its not about agreeing to disagree its what is being reported. and understanding the problem. Banter is not comparable to violence.!!

read the below from the independent and even Sherwood agrees

“The doctor said coins were raining over his head while he was treating Theo [on the pitch] and he had to protect him,” said Arsene Wenger, “maybe that is why he did that.” The Arsenal manager added: “If the FA judge is it offensive what can I do but I don't think he will be in trouble. What he did was not offensive. He does not look aggressive, he is smiling.”

Tottenham's head coach Tim Sherwood said he had not seen the incident but he condemned any Tottenham fans who threw coins. “If they did that it is a problem.” As for Walcott's gesture Sherwood said it was “maybe it was a bit of banter.”

Consequences aside I'd still fine Walcott for the gesticulation.

Part of the job I'm afraid. It was inciting.

I'd give Walcott a warm handshake and a pat on the back for not reacting any further.

Two fingers and a smile, after he could have easily got his head cut open.

Duty281 wrote:

The Fourth Lion wrote:

mystiroakey wrote:"But I think you would agree that when all is said and done it was an act of stupidity that detracted from what was otherwise a good game."

no i cant mate- the Tottenham fans threw coins at him and he retaliated in a pretty non aggressive way. A funny way. All the reports suggest he did it after they launched an attack on him. fair play.

Hmmmm.... well, I'll take your word for the coins being thrown beforehand.   Or perhaps we should agree to disagree.  

As for the humour of the situation, I'm not quite sure that the Spurs fans were splitting their sides laughing at Walcott's jest.  I can hear them now  "Oh, look... there's that Walcott chap shoving the scoreline down our throats.  What a wag, eh..?"

I could just see Chamakh getting away with that at, say, The Den.

Hardly a vicious jest. Just two fingers to indicate the score.

Disappointingly, Theo didn't get the two fingers the right way round.   

As I said before, Duty, I'm all for a bit of edge in a match and local rivalry is local rivalry. Long may it thrive.

But on this specific occasion, I personally feel his behaviour was immature and irresponsible and potentially dangerous to others who could have been affected.

If Walcott wants to take on the Tottenham supporters, then fine. He's a handsome young man and I'm sure some of them would love to re-arrange his features for him. If he wants to get involved in something, then fine. Good luck to him.

But there were others involved who could have been affected. It may have escaped your baleful gaze, but at the time, Walcott was on a stretcher being carried by a medical team who I'm quite sure did not want to get in the way of any objects thrown at Citizen Walcott.

I will ask you a direct question: Would you think it was funny if one of the medical crew had been injured by a coin or any other missile intended for Walcott..?

Or to put it another way.... if medics came to your aid, would you, out of gratitude for the help and care they have given you, deliberately put them at risk of injury..?

Duty281 wrote:I'd give Walcott a warm handshake .

You'd have given him more than that Duty you broken hearted book title alphabetical ordering motha phucka!

Bless ya   

Now back to business. Did Truro keep another clean sheet today? We was waterlogged..

mystiroakey wrote:you cant start blaming a player for laughing at fans that are pelting him with missiles. You cant blame Walcott if match official's get caught in the crossfire.

And its not about agreeing to disagree its what is being reported. and understanding the problem. Banter is not comparable to violence.!!

read the below from the independent and even Sherwood agrees

“The doctor said coins were raining over his head while he was treating Theo [on the pitch] and he had to protect him,” said Arsene Wenger, “maybe that is why he did that.” The Arsenal manager added: “If the FA judge is it offensive what can I do but I don't think he will be in trouble. What he did was not offensive. He does not look aggressive, he is smiling.”

Tottenham's head coach Tim Sherwood said he had not seen the incident but he condemned any Tottenham fans who threw coins. “If they did that it is a problem.” As for Walcott's gesture Sherwood said it was “maybe it was a bit of banter.”

I refer you to the question I have asked Duty in my previous post.  

Firstly, medical teams are not match officials, they are there to provide first aid to injured players, something that Walcott clearly wasn't taking his obvious ability to perform certain actions without harm or pain. And if they were, I cannot believe that you think match officials are fair game for inter club violence.

Thankfully, nobody was injured in this incident and it can be passed off blithely as just a laugh with nobody hurt.  Wenger and Sherwood playing it down so it doesn't become a major issue.  

Lucky.  On this occasion.

Let's see what transpires on another day.   Which is bound to come.  Sooner or later.

The Fourth Lion wrote:

Duty281 wrote:

The Fourth Lion wrote:

mystiroakey wrote:"But I think you would agree that when all is said and done it was an act of stupidity that detracted from what was otherwise a good game."

no i cant mate- the Tottenham fans threw coins at him and he retaliated in a pretty non aggressive way. A funny way. All the reports suggest he did it after they launched an attack on him. fair play.

Hmmmm.... well, I'll take your word for the coins being thrown beforehand.   Or perhaps we should agree to disagree.  

As for the humour of the situation, I'm not quite sure that the Spurs fans were splitting their sides laughing at Walcott's jest.  I can hear them now  "Oh, look... there's that Walcott chap shoving the scoreline down our throats.  What a wag, eh..?"

I could just see Chamakh getting away with that at, say, The Den.

Hardly a vicious jest. Just two fingers to indicate the score.

Disappointingly, Theo didn't get the two fingers the right way round.   

As I said before, Duty, I'm all for a bit of edge in a match and local rivalry is local rivalry.  Long may it thrive.

But on this specific occasion, I personally feel his behaviour was immature and irresponsible and potentially dangerous to others who could have been affected.

If Walcott wants to take on the Tottenham supporters, then fine.  He's a handsome young man and I'm sure some of them would love to re-arrange his features for him.  If he wants to get involved in something, then fine.  Good luck to him.

But there were others involved who could have been affected.  It may have escaped your baleful gaze, but at the time, Walcott was on a stretcher being carried by a medical team who I'm quite sure did not want to get in the way of any objects thrown at Citizen Walcott.  

I will ask you a direct question:   Would you think it was funny if one of the medical crew had been injured by a coin or any other missile intended for Walcott..?

Or to put it another way.... if medics came to your aid, would you, out of gratitude for the help and care they have given you,  deliberately put them at risk of injury..?

Gorgeous Theo is not to blame for the coins being lobbed in his direction. He was having plenty of coins lobbed in his direction before he made his cheerful gesture.

And, let's be honest here, if you get so incensed by a gesture like that to the extent that you throw coins, then you have some severe problems.

The only people to blame, surely, are the senseless minority in the Tottenham end who hurled objects with the intent to harm. Ban them for life from grounds, I would, and preferably civilization. Back to the cave for them.

"But on this specific occasion, I personally feel his behaviour was immature and irresponsible and potentially dangerous to others who could have been affected.

If Walcott wants to take on the Tottenham supporters, then fine. He's a handsome young man and I'm sure some of them would love to re-arrange his features for him. If he wants to get involved in something, then fine. Good luck to him."

IMO that's a really bad attitude for someone that makes some really decent posts mate.

I cant believe how you are exonerating the violent fans and blaming this on Walcott that made a non violent gesture- Its ridiculous.

and you still dont get it- THE COINS WERE ALREADY BEING THROWN!!

FreekShow wrote:

Duty281 wrote:I'd give Walcott a warm handshake .

You'd have given him more than that Duty you broken hearted book title alphabetical ordering motha phucka!

Bless ya   

Now back to business. Did Truro keep another clean sheet today? We was waterlogged..

Oh I certainly would given half the chance.

And no, Truro's game waterlogged as well. Two in a row now.

Duty281 wrote:

FreekShow wrote:

Duty281 wrote:I'd give Walcott a warm handshake .

You'd have given him more than that Duty you broken hearted book title alphabetical ordering motha phucka!

Bless ya   

Now back to business. Did Truro keep another clean sheet today? We was waterlogged..

Oh I certainly would given half the chance.

And no, Truro's game waterlogged as well. Two in a row now.

A technical clean sheet. They all add up.

mystiroakey wrote:"But on this specific occasion, I personally feel his behaviour was immature and irresponsible and potentially dangerous to others who could have been affected.

If Walcott wants to take on the Tottenham supporters, then fine. He's a handsome young man and I'm sure some of them would love to re-arrange his features for him. If he wants to get involved in something, then fine. Good luck to him."

IMO that's a really bad attitude for someone that makes some really decent posts mate.

I cant believe how you are exonerating the violent fans and blaming this on Walcott that made a non violent gesture- Its ridiculous.

and you still dont get it- THE COINS WERE ALREADY BEING THROWN!!

Oh, I get it alright. I understand your position entirely.  Two wrongs make a right.  I understand you entirely.  I just don't agree with you, that's all.


I am not exonerating violent fans, and indeed, I said so several posts back.    Please do try to read the entire thread and not pick out the bits you want to single out and ignore the rest.

The Tottenham fans were quite stupid and should be identified and sanctioned if that is possible.  However, Walcott should know better.   The fact that he did what he did with a smile on his face is no excuse.   I'll offer you two quotations from Shakespeare that can say things far better than I:

"One may smile, and yet smile and be a villain"  (from Hamlet)

"if the enemy is a fool, and an ass, and a prating coxcomb, is it meet that we too should be an ass, and a fool, and a prating coxcomb?  (from Henry V)

From your answer, I can only deduce that you think it is entirely ok for medical staff to be injured in inter club violence as long as it gives you a good laugh.   Perhaps one day you may need them yourself. Good luck.

I'm tired now and this isn't going anywhere. It's just degenerating into an undignified squabble. I learned long ago not to bandy words with fools as their tactic is always to drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience. You have the floor, sir. Do with it what you will. Good night.

The Fourth Lion wrote:

mystiroakey wrote:"But on this specific occasion, I personally feel his behaviour was immature and irresponsible and potentially dangerous to others who could have been affected.

If Walcott wants to take on the Tottenham supporters, then fine. He's a handsome young man and I'm sure some of them would love to re-arrange his features for him. If he wants to get involved in something, then fine. Good luck to him."

IMO that's a really bad attitude for someone that makes some really decent posts mate.

I cant believe how you are exonerating the violent fans and blaming this on Walcott that made a non violent gesture- Its ridiculous.

and you still dont get it- THE COINS WERE ALREADY BEING THROWN!!

Oh, I get it alright. I understand your position entirely.  Two wrongs make a right.  I understand you entirely.  I just don't agree with you, that's all.


I am not exonerating violent fans, and indeed, I said so several posts back.    Please do try to read the entire thread and not pick out the bits you want to single out and ignore the rest.

The Tottenham fans were quite stupid and should be identified and sanctioned if that is possible.  However, Walcott should know better.   The fact that he did what he did with a smile on his face is no excuse.   I'll offer you two quotations from Shakespeare that can say things far better than I:

"One may smile, and yet smile and be a villain"  (from Hamlet)

"if the enemy is a fool, and an ass, and a prating coxcomb, is it meet that we too should be an ass, and a fool, and a prating coxcomb?  (from Henry V)

From your answer, I can only deduce that you think it is entirely ok for medical staff to be injured in inter club violence as long as it gives you a good laugh.   Perhaps one day you may need them yourself. Good luck.

Your powers of deduction need a slight tweak.

The Fourth Lion wrote:

mystiroakey wrote:"But on this specific occasion, I personally feel his behaviour was immature and irresponsible and potentially dangerous to others who could have been affected.

If Walcott wants to take on the Tottenham supporters, then fine. He's a handsome young man and I'm sure some of them would love to re-arrange his features for him. If he wants to get involved in something, then fine. Good luck to him."

IMO that's a really bad attitude for someone that makes some really decent posts mate.

I cant believe how you are exonerating the violent fans and blaming this on Walcott that made a non violent gesture- Its ridiculous.

and you still dont get it- THE COINS WERE ALREADY BEING THROWN!!

Oh, I get it alright. I understand your position entirely.  Two wrongs make a right.  I understand you entirely.  I just don't agree with you, that's all.


I am not exonerating violent fans, and indeed, I said so several posts back.    Please do try to read the entire thread and not pick out the bits you want to single out and ignore the rest.

The Tottenham fans were quite stupid and should be identified and sanctioned if that is possible.  However, Walcott should know better.   The fact that he did what he did with a smile on his face is no excuse.   I'll offer you two quotations from Shakespeare that can say things far better than I:

"One may smile, and yet smile and be a villain"  (from Hamlet)

"if the enemy is a fool, and an ass, and a prating coxcomb, is it meet that we too should be an ass, and a fool, and a prating coxcomb?  (from Henry V)

From your answer, I can only deduce that you think it is entirely ok for medical staff to be injured in inter club violence as long as it gives you a good laugh.   Perhaps one day you may need them yourself. Good luck.

I'm tired now and this isn't going anywhere.  It's just degenerating into an undignified squabble.   I learned long ago not to bandy words with fools as their tactic is always to drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience.   You have the floor, sir.  Do with it what you will.  Good night.

No its OK I won't reduce myself to your pathetic level and put words in your mouth. I am astonished by your accusations against me and your view on violence. We will leave it at that.

Hammersmith harrier wrote:It's not an assumption, are they or are they not first team players, I'll give you a helping hand there's a list on the premier league website.

sergio gnarby is a 'first team player' at Arsenal but if he was inured I wouldn't start crying that we only lost because we had first team players missing.

There is a difference between squad players and first team starters. If you are arguing that squad players are injured then fair enough but that doesn't mean much when the squad players wouldn't have started the game anyway because they were not first team starters.

And once again the team that beat united at old trafford 2-1 lost to Arsenal 2-0

Champagne_Socialist wrote:

Hammersmith harrier wrote:It's not an assumption, are they or are they not first team players, I'll give you a helping hand there's a list on the premier league website.

sergio gnarby is a 'first team player' at Arsenal but if he was inured I wouldn't start crying that we only lost because we had first team players missing.

There is a difference between squad players and first team starters. If you are arguing that squad players are injured then fair enough but that doesn't mean much when the squad players wouldn't have started the game anyway because they were not first team starters.

And once again the team that beat united at old trafford 2-1 lost to Arsenal 2-0

And Manchester United beat Arsenal directly.

Duty281 wrote:

Champagne_Socialist wrote:

Hammersmith harrier wrote:It's not an assumption, are they or are they not first team players, I'll give you a helping hand there's a list on the premier league website.

sergio gnarby is a 'first team player' at Arsenal but if he was inured I wouldn't start crying that we only lost because we had first team players missing.

There is a difference between squad players and first team starters. If you are arguing that squad players are injured then fair enough but that doesn't mean much when the squad players wouldn't have started the game anyway because they were not first team starters.

And once again the team that beat united at old trafford 2-1 lost to Arsenal 2-0

And Manchester United beat Arsenal directly.

you understand the debate is about how tough the victory over tottenham was?? It is not a debate about Arsenal v man u......

Arsenal beat a tottenham team who managed to beat man u at old trafford 2-1. Some people are not giving Arsenal credit for the victory and coming out with nonsense that 10 first team tottenham players ere out injured even though the majority of those injured are not starting players and the 11 players that tottenham fielded against Arsenal were the same 11 players that beat man u 2-1 at old trafford.

Champagne_Socialist wrote:

Duty281 wrote:

Champagne_Socialist wrote:

Hammersmith harrier wrote:It's not an assumption, are they or are they not first team players, I'll give you a helping hand there's a list on the premier league website.

sergio gnarby is a 'first team player' at Arsenal but if he was inured I wouldn't start crying that we only lost because we had first team players missing.

There is a difference between squad players and first team starters. If you are arguing that squad players are injured then fair enough but that doesn't mean much when the squad players wouldn't have started the game anyway because they were not first team starters.

And once again the team that beat united at old trafford 2-1 lost to Arsenal 2-0

And Manchester United beat Arsenal directly.

you understand the debate is about how tough the victory over tottenham was?? It is not a debate about Arsenal v man u......

Arsenal beat a tottenham team who managed to beat man u at old trafford 2-1. Some people are not giving Arsenal credit for the victory and coming out with nonsense that 10 first team tottenham players ere out injured even though the majority of those injured are not starting players and the 11 players that tottenham fielded against Arsenal were the same 11 players that beat man u 2-1 at old trafford.

Well...I've haven't gone to bed for the last couple of days so...no.

I duly apologise.

Although beating United at Old Trafford doesn't seem to be too taxing these days - just ask Everton, Newcastle, or West Brom.

The Spurs fans brought it on first by pelting and abusing an injured player. To me that is the real classless thing, Walcott smiling and giving them the 2-0 in response was the perfect way to make them look bitter and classless. If the medical people or medical crew were injured by idiots lobbing missiles its the idiots lobbing missiles that are to blame not Theo Walcott. Especially, in light of his actions being pretty benign.

For someone to state that the game was good but ruined by arsenal fans and Theo Walcott and not even touch on the violence from the Tottenham fans is alien to me.

I mean 4th lion lost it last night IMO. Good poster normally.

I can kind of understand what he means. Say you were on a safari and you wondered out on your own and meet a lion. If you wind it up you are a fool but its on you. if you did this with your party its dangerous to others as well.

However we are talking about humans not wild beasts..

Banter is a huge part of this game. And that is all arsenal fans and players carried out.

Thankfully English football is moving forward and social media banter seems to be replacing hooliganism and violence . long may that continue.

The irony is he quoted Shakespeare. Not his own words off course. That's to much for him . but yes stick to words and gestures and have a smile on your face. Violence needs to be stamped out. Banter is great and part of the game.

To suggest there are two wrongs here is grossly misinterpreting the situation. There is one wrong and one that is so minor in comparison that it doesn't touch the sides.

Time for some real football

You sure? This is a Development game