The FA Cup

First topic message reminder :

Well, nothing on here much for discussion so thought this could begin.

At the moment Westisbest is probably pulling his hair out, whilst Wigan are marching on towards there second FA Cup in a row.

Rooney well leave and you won't be able to replace him. Its not about the money. Its about purchasing power

Keep telling yourself that missing the champion's league is no big deal and that 4th place doesn't matter. It represents about 10 percent of United's turnover in terms of TV money alone not to mention the gameday revenue. If United want to sign new players of a world class level both the money and prestige will matter.

http://www.sincearsenallastwonatrophy.co.uk/

Tick tock, tick tock.

Hammersmith harrier wrote:Nobody remembers who comes second, third, fourth, sixth or seventeenth CS so setting a target of champions league qualification is for teams with no aspiration. I see no reason for any Arsenal fan to be smug at the moment when you consider the season is only half way through, if and it's a big huge massive never going to happen if you win the title then try the immature smugness.

Whether it's second or sixth it still isn't first and our main concern isn't money it's success.

But you understand finishing in the champions league generates success because the extra money made available from qualifying for the CL is used to pay for top players. Also top players wil not go to a team that is not playing CL football.

Finishing outside the top 4 will affect united for next season as well aas they will not be able to buy the top players they need to win the league.

mystiroakey wrote:Rooney well leave and you won't be able to replace him. Its not about the money. Its about purchasing power

It's kind of ironic that United didn't want to give him a contract last year and now his on the verge of walking out in top form.

Duty281 wrote:http://www.sincearsenallastwonatrophy.co.uk/

Tick tock, tick tock.

If Moyes stays in a job then you could be having a site like that soon.   


It amuses me that United fans think because he's the "Chosen One" that United have to settle for his mediocrity sometimes things don't work out for a reason in this case his negative style of football. Americans aren't patient people when it comes to losing money.

Fernando wrote:

Duty281 wrote:http://www.sincearsenallastwonatrophy.co.uk/

Tick tock, tick tock.

If Moyes stays in a job then you could be having a site like that soon.


It amuses me that United fans think because he's the "Chosen One" that United have to settle for his mediocrity. Americans aren't patient people when it comes to losing money.  

Not a United fan Fernando.   

I do wonder how long Moyes actually has. I'm surprised at the patience levels of the majority of the United fans.

Don't think anyone thinks he is the chosen one or we have to settle for current form.

The money is off course huge. But a team like united could cope with that problem for one year.

United have got a serious issue in rooney. Because his contract is up in 2015.

If his contact wasn't up until 2016 with rvps contract also being long I wouldn't see it as being as big of an issue.

This January window is the most vital for man u .

There is still in with a chance to get cl footy. So if they sign big now they will have players on long contracts even if they don't get top 4.

Duty281 wrote:

Fernando wrote:

Duty281 wrote:http://www.sincearsenallastwonatrophy.co.uk/

Tick tock, tick tock.

If Moyes stays in a job then you could be having a site like that soon.


It amuses me that United fans think because he's the "Chosen One" that United have to settle for his mediocrity. Americans aren't patient people when it comes to losing money.  

Not a United fan Fernando.   

I do wonder how long Moyes actually has. I'm surprised at the patience levels of the majority of the United fans.

I think you needed jose mourinho instead of moyes.

We won't be making a big signing in the window as in all likelihood their won't be one to be made.

Players aren't available.

Fernando wrote:

Duty281 wrote:http://www.sincearsenallastwonatrophy.co.uk/

Tick tock, tick tock.

If Moyes stays in a job then you could be having a site like that soon.


It amuses me that United fans think because he's the "Chosen One" that United have to settle for his mediocrity. Americans aren't patient people when it comes to losing money.  

I 100% agree.

I am a UTD fan and most fans are deluded if they think he should be given time. Moyes is way out of his depth. Go manage Plymoth or Ipswich, you have no place at UTD.

You can't bring a manager in, who has not won anything and put him in charge of a team of winners. He needs to go, move on. I urge Man Utd fans to bring out the banners and boo this mediocre lame excuse for a manager out of Old Trafford.

Don't you think you could push for Barkley ?

Give then back felani and pay 20 m . cut you losses

Duty281 wrote:http://www.sincearsenallastwonatrophy.co.uk/

Tick tock, tick tock.

OH no not that!!! maybe I should become a ManU gloryhunter now? Oh wait little glory left there.

Hammersmith harrier wrote:If we don't win I couldn't really care less where we finish, unlike some teams we don't see it as an achievement just getting into the champions league. Getting that number one spot is all that matters.

  

You do understand the importance of champions league football surely??

If not from a financial point of view you have to at least take into account the playing squad. Not only will RVP and Rooney want out but you also lose a lot of sway in the transfer market as well

But if youre ok with watching crap like cleverley, young, welbeck, smalling etc then thats your choice. Guarentee it wont be an opinion echoed by the rest of us though

I can't imagine we'd struggle to buy the top players if we miss out on the champions league, you only have to look at someone like Suarez to realise that money talks. A team with self sustainable resources can manage without the champions league for a season, Tottenham didn't exactly struggle to buy some of the best young talent available in Europe without it.

gazzyD wrote:

Hammersmith harrier wrote:If we don't win I couldn't really care less where we finish, unlike some teams we don't see it as an achievement just getting into the champions league. Getting that number one spot is all that matters.

  

You do understand the importance of champions league football surely??

If not from a financial point of view you have to at least take into account the playing squad. Not only will RVP and Rooney want out but you also lose a lot of sway in the transfer market as well

But if youre ok with watching crap like cleverley, young, welbeck, smalling etc then thats your choice. Guarentee it wont be an opinion echoed by the rest of us though

I think you misunderstand my comment Gazzy, I wont be happy with merely qualifying for the champions league and premier league success is the ultimate goal, some teams get stuck in a rut where CL qualification becomes their sole ambition.

The players they bought were not very good. They got mugged off.

Does anyone remember soldado stating that he only went to Tottenham as he thought bale was staying..

He isnt even good enough to lace defoes boots yet still wanted the world and cost 30 million.

Fair enough. Must admit given the transition at the beginning of the year I wanted top 4 minimum, especially given that awful transfer window

David Moyes has shown how inept he is at managing players.

Take Zaha for example. Do you think SAF spent £15 million on a bench warmer? Why is Moyes not playing him?

If Zaha is not mentally strong enough to make it in the first team then is it not the managers job to convince him that he is?

They said you can't win anything with kids yet SAF broaught in Giggs, Scholes, Beckham, Butt and the Neviles when they were all very young and that is the difference between a great manager like SAF and an avarage manager like Moyes.

The players they bought are actually very good, Tottenham have the problem it takes a while for so many new players to gel.

Hmmm...this thread's all very interesting.  

Hammersmith harrier wrote:I can't imagine we'd struggle to buy the top players if we miss out on the champions league, you only have to look at someone like Suarez to realise that money talks. A team with self sustainable resources can manage without the champions league for a season, Tottenham didn't exactly struggle to buy some of the best young talent available in Europe without it.

You struggled to buy players in the summer of 2013 when you had CL football in the bank and you were the EPL champions. Imagine how hard it would be to buy top players with no CL football and after finishing 6th.

You are deluded if you think it doesn't make any difference to your buying power if you finish outside the top 4.

Not sure mate. I think they had to overpay due to everyone knowing they had 100m to spend.

Just like when Liverpool bought Carroll.

If you are a top club you don't pay over the odds and don't have to sell your best players( Liverpool had to sell Torres/ titenham had to sell bale and united will have to sell Rooney. Yet there replacements won't be half as good yet cist twice as much as any other team wwould spend.)

United need a clearout like Arsenal did over the summer.

Personally id boot these lot out to begin then do some serious re-investing the best business United can do is tie Rooney down.

Evra/Ferdinand/Anderson/Nani/Young/Fabio/Cleverley/Valencia/Kagawa (not using him), Give serious consideration on Fellaini as well.

--------------De Gea
Rafael -- Jones -- Vidic -- Coentrao/Baines/Shaw
Di Maria/Zaha -- Carrick - Gundogan/Vidal? -- Januzaj
-----------------Rooney
----------------------RVP

* All the players ive mentioned being linked with moves from their clubs.

Champagne_Socialist wrote:

Hammersmith harrier wrote:I can't imagine we'd struggle to buy the top players if we miss out on the champions league, you only have to look at someone like Suarez to realise that money talks. A team with self sustainable resources can manage without the champions league for a season, Tottenham didn't exactly struggle to buy some of the best young talent available in Europe without it.

You struggled to buy players in the summer of 2013 when you had CL football in the bank and you were the EPL champions. Imagine how hard it would be to buy top players with no CL football and after finishing 6th.

You are deluded if you think it doesn't make any difference to your buying power if you finish outside the top 4.

In fairness, United would still be United. Still one of the best-known and best-supported clubs in the world. It wouldn't hurt United as much as it would Tottenham, but they would have to return to Europe's elite pretty sharpish.

They need to give us Zaha back as well!

Hammersmith harrier wrote:The players they bought are actually very good, Tottenham have the problem it takes a while for so many new players to gel.

They bought a guy from the dutch league (eriksen), the brazillan league (paulinho), the romanian league (chirachles), Hardly proving your point that finishing outside the top 4 has no effect on purchasing power against the top teams.

Rooney needs to go.

Every season problems with his contract. P*ss off else where you scouse rat and take your fat bird with you..

ONETWOFOREVER wrote:Rooney needs to go.

Every season problems with his contract. P*ss off else where you scouse rat and take your fat bird with you..

What an incredibly thoughtful opinion for one of United's greatest goalscorers.

Is this the gloryhunter you were referring to socal?

ONETWOFOREVER wrote:Rooney needs to go.

Every season problems with his contract. P*ss off else where you scouse rat and take your fat bird with you..

  

well be careful what you wish for mate!

Wasn't Rooney only not signing due to you not spending big on other players. Hasn't he been proved right(still i laughed at your comment)

Duty281 wrote:

Champagne_Socialist wrote:

Hammersmith harrier wrote:I can't imagine we'd struggle to buy the top players if we miss out on the champions league, you only have to look at someone like Suarez to realise that money talks. A team with self sustainable resources can manage without the champions league for a season, Tottenham didn't exactly struggle to buy some of the best young talent available in Europe without it.

You struggled to buy players in the summer of 2013 when you had CL football in the bank and you were the EPL champions. Imagine how hard it would be to buy top players with no CL football and after finishing 6th.

You are deluded if you think it doesn't make any difference to your buying power if you finish outside the top 4.

In fairness, United would still be United. Still one of the best-known and best-supported clubs in the world. It wouldn't hurt United as much as it would Tottenham, but they would have to return to Europe's elite pretty sharpish.

if united finish outside the top 4 I full expect Rooney to leave and to join Chelsea or another big team. Van persie will leave as well. replacing them will be united's biggest issue as they won't have CL football and will be seen as a club spiraling downwards. Failing to replace roone and Van Persie will determine how fast united bounce back.

Duty281 wrote:

ONETWOFOREVER wrote:Rooney needs to go.

Every season problems with his contract. P*ss off else where you scouse rat and take your fat bird with you..

What an incredibly thoughtful opinion for one of United's greatest goalscorers.

Is this the gloryhunter you were referring to socal?

Utd fan since the days of Blackmore, Reme Moses, Mclair and Stracham so don't you dare call me a glory hunter I have seen avarage Man Utd before and I have seen the glory years.

Rooney is playing well but he does not play for Utd he plays for other clubs who are watching.

ONETWOFOREVER wrote:

Duty281 wrote:

ONETWOFOREVER wrote:Rooney needs to go.

Every season problems with his contract. P*ss off else where you scouse rat and take your fat bird with you..

What an incredibly thoughtful opinion for one of United's greatest goalscorers.

Is this the gloryhunter you were referring to socal?

Utd fan since the days of Blackmore, Reme Moses, Mclair and Stracham so don't you dare call me a glory hunter I have seen avarage Man Utd before and I have seen the glory years.

Rooney is playing well but he does not play for Utd he plays for other clubs who are watching.

I wouldn't want to play for United if the fans are all like you, that's for sure.

Why does it matter where players come from, Barca bought Neymar from Brazil. The best foreign players don't just suddenly appear in the top leagues, they are often bought from their home countries.

You're seriously overselling the effect one bad season will have on a team of Uniteds stature, we're the third richest club in the world with a huge global fan base.

ONETWOFOREVER wrote:

Duty281 wrote:

ONETWOFOREVER wrote:Rooney needs to go.

Every season problems with his contract. P*ss off else where you scouse rat and take your fat bird with you..

What an incredibly thoughtful opinion for one of United's greatest goalscorers.

Is this the gloryhunter you were referring to socal?

Utd fan since the days of Blackmore, Reme Moses, Mclair and Stracham so don't you dare call me a glory hunter I have seen avarage Man Utd before and I have seen the glory years.

Rooney is playing well but he does not play for Utd he plays for other clubs who are watching.

top in PL assits

top in work rate.

If he isn't playing for the team i cant imagine how good he would be if he actually did!

mystiroakey wrote:

ONETWOFOREVER wrote:

Duty281 wrote:

ONETWOFOREVER wrote:Rooney needs to go.

Every season problems with his contract. P*ss off else where you scouse rat and take your fat bird with you..

What an incredibly thoughtful opinion for one of United's greatest goalscorers.

Is this the gloryhunter you were referring to socal?

Utd fan since the days of Blackmore, Reme Moses, Mclair and Stracham so don't you dare call me a glory hunter I have seen avarage Man Utd before and I have seen the glory years.

Rooney is playing well but he does not play for Utd he plays for other clubs who are watching.

top in PL assits

top in work rate.

If he isn't playing for the team i cant imagine how good he would be if he actually did!

Top pain in my a*se as well, you forgot that one.

Look why bother with a player who is always looking for a way out. Get rid and find another striker who wants to play for the team.

rooney is supposedly happy under moyes onetwo.

I would try and do the best business possible in jan and try and keep him happy. the best players are like that. Do you think the other top 20 or so players are any different to rooney!

Hammersmith harrier wrote:Why does it matter where players come from, Barca bought Neymar from Brazil. The best foreign players don't just suddenly appear in the top leagues, they are often bought from their home countries.

You're seriously overselling the effect one bad season will have on a team of Uniteds stature, we're the third richest club in the world with a huge global fan base.

United always buy top players at their peak from the top teams eg Veron, Berbatov, carrick, Van Persie, Ferdinand, de gea, kagawa etc etc

Saing you would be happy to start buying players from the romanian league or dutch league is a lie, Tottenham have done it and it hasn't helped them very much.

Where did we buy Vidic from? That didn't turn out to be a bad signing did it, we very rarely buy players from the elite teams it's not out MO. Quality is what matters not where they came from plus Chriches has been a very good buy for Tottenham.

I'd probably argue that Rio, Kagawa, Carrick, De Gea weren't/aren't at their peak.

man u is a team many probably respected more than they confess Hammersmith.

Your top players came from you bringing them up through your youth system. and then the odd good buy

The best way

Hammersmith harrier wrote:Where did we buy Vidic from? That didn't turn out to be a bad signing did it, we very rarely buy players from the elite teams it's not out MO. Quality is what matters not where they came from plus Chriches has been a very good buy for Tottenham.

Keep telling yourself that   

If there is any decent player from a smaller team eg neymar from the brazillan league, United will be outmuscled by a team in the CL when trying to buy that said player.

Walcott has been a good buy from Arsenal (southampton in the championship) but that doesn't mean I want Arsenal to buy all its players from the championship.....

Look we have problems, we failed to improve the squad in the summer and its well and truly bitten us on the bottom. We have a good group of good to very good players: RVP, Rooney, De Gea, Jones, Evans, Carrick, Januzaj, Welbeck and Hernandez. Apart from those, the rest are either past it or not up to Utd's standard. At the moment we are where we belong, a top 7 side trying to fight for 4th place. We desperately need investment this Jan otherwise 4th place is gone. Moyes has to take some of the responsibility but he can't take the blame for the failings in the summer. For me, we will make signings this Jan as I feel Moyes has done the opposite to the summer, play down people coming in so people don't get their expectations up only to be let down if we fail to get our targets. Coentrao should be our first piece of business.

You want your team to buy quality regardless of where they come from, Van Persie is the only player we have bought from an elite club.

Hammersmith harrier wrote:You want your team to buy quality regardless of where they come from, Van Persie is the only player we have bought from an elite club.

But it is obvious the best players in the world are at the best teams 95% of the time. And what makes you think you can get a player like neymar from a smaller team? A team like Real madrid or Barcelona or Man city will outmuslce you as they can offer CL football.

Nothing has changed then has it CS, with or without CL we wouldn't be able to compete with the big money clubs. The majority of the players we've bought have come from clubs outside of the elite and buying established is not our thing.

Hammersmith harrier wrote:Nothing has changed then has it CS, with or without CL we wouldn't be able to compete with the big money clubs. The majority of the players we've bought have come from clubs outside of the elite and buying established is not our thing.

de gea left a CL club to join united, he wouldn't have joined if you had no CL football.

Kagawa left Borissa dortmund who won the German league and had Cl football, he wouldnt have left if united didnt have CL football.

Berbatov and Carrick left tottenham, they wouldnt have joined you if you didnt have CL football.

VP wouldnt have joined you without CL football.

If you lose rooney and VP you will struggle next season as well because you cant attract big names who are as good as them to replace them.

You don't actually know any of that, it's just pure baseless speculation, wouldn't have had anything to do with a huge pay rise for each and every one.

Hammersmith harrier wrote:You don't actually know any of that, it's just pure baseless speculation, wouldn't have had anything to do with a huge pay rise for each and every one.

if united do not get CL football they will struggle to hold onto rooney and VP and will struggle to replace them with players of an equal standard.