The FA Cup

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Well, nothing on here much for discussion so thought this could begin.

At the moment Westisbest is probably pulling his hair out, whilst Wigan are marching on towards there second FA Cup in a row.

I doubt any of that to be honest, one bad season doesn't change who the club are and the prestige we bring to any prospective player. Liverpool signed Suarez without champions league and held on to him without it too, Tottenham hung on to Bale two seasons longer than they possibly should have. Arsenal have lost almost a whole team in the past 7 seasons with champions league.

Hammersmith harrier wrote:I doubt any of that to be honest, one bad season doesn't change who the club are and the prestige we bring to any prospective player. Liverpool signed Suarez without champions league and held on to him without it too, Tottenham hung on to Bale two seasons longer than they possibly should have. Arsenal have lost almost a whole team in the past 7 seasons with champions league.

you are deluded haha   

You're a very immature human being indeed.

It's the benefit of being Manchester United, champions league football doesn't change the name or the club, do explain how you kept hold of Nasri, Adebayor, Henry, Vieira, Fabregas, Toure, Clichy, Hleb and Van Persie?

Hammersmith harrier wrote:You're a very immature human being indeed.

It's the benefit of being Manchester United, champions league football doesn't change the name or the club, do explain how you kept hold of Nasri, Adebayor, Henry, Vieira, Fabregas, Toure, Clichy, Hleb and Van Persie?

the question is how many more players we would have lost without CL.

I find it funny you think united not qualifying for the CL will have no affect whatsoever hahaha you are so deluded.

You lost all your best players even with champions league so i'm failing to see your point.

I find it deluded that you're getting all high and mighty after half a good season, the thing is no one is guaranteed of champions league football this year not even Arsenal, not even City.

Hammersmith harrier wrote:You lost all your best players even with champions league so i'm failing to see your point.

I find it deluded that you're getting all high and mighty after half a good season, the thing is no one is guaranteed of champions league football this year not even Arsenal, not even City.

You are so deluded hahah

Tell me right now do you think that if UTD fail to qualify for the CL do you think it will affect them whatsoever?

Do you think repeating the same line ad nauseam is going to make it any more funny or any more true?

It will effect us for a season but wont be a major hindrance to our long term future, the glamour of playing for Manchester United will still hold a lot of weight.

Hammersmith harrier wrote:Do you think repeating the same line ad nauseam is going to make it any more funny or any more true?

It will effect us for a season but wont be a major hindrance to our long term future, the glamour of playing for Manchester United will still hold a lot of weight.

o Yeh cos every player was running to play for you in the summer of 2013 hahahah.

Why would it only affect you for 1 season? My argument is that failing to qualify for the CL this year will also hinder your chances of qualifying for the CL in future seasons due to world class players choosing other CL clubs over you and also if liverpool finish 4th they will be able to purchase top qulity players with the promise of CL football. That means your job in 2014/2015 will be harder as teams that finished above you in previous seasons will be stronger due to them having european football and you not.

So why will it only affect you for 1 year?

I know what your argument is and i've responded repeatedly as to why it specifically wont affect Man United, we're not a lowly team with aspirations of champions league qualification. A team that has dominated it's domestic league for over 20 years simply wont spiral into decline because of one bad season.

Hammersmith harrier wrote:I know what your argument is and i've responded repeatedly as to why it specifically wont affect Man United, we're not a lowly team with aspirations of champions league qualification. A team that has dominated it's domestic league for over 20 years simply wont spiral into decline because of one bad season.

so your whole argument is the history of united will attract big name players. My response is where were those players in 2013?

Do you think a player would choose man u with no CL football over Chelsea for eg who have CL? The answer is no.

Also why would it only affect UTD for 1 year? surely if chelsea, city, liverpool and arsenal all finish top 4 then they will reinforce their squads and become even better the next year making uniteds job even harder.

I'm sorry but how can people not see that not finishing in the top 4 for Utd won't have an effect. As a Utd fan, I know 4th place is everything this season, its knock on effects are massive. If we don't get top 4:

Rooney is off 100%
RVP will also probably leave

The teams who finish in the top 4 strengthen. Meaning, the players we WANT to sign to improve us will always chose the teams above us in a bidding war as not only can they probably offer more than us, but have the offer of CL football.

Just have to pick the players carefully, city for one managed to pick up some pretty good players before they made it into the cl.

Rooney is a huge issue though, rvp not so much as he has a longer deal.

Anyway hopefully when rvp is fit he and rooney will fire us to the top 4 and this will all be a academic.

your best bet is catching liverpool wh are only 5 points above you, only issue is that tottenham and everton are trying to catch them too.

That's what we're relying on atm, RVP to come back and him and Rooney to play to their potential. Its the one thing we have over the rest, two world class strikers. Then if we can get a cm in Jan we may be alright but its a long way back from here.

Liam wrote:That's what we're relying on atm, RVP to come back and him and Rooney to play to their potential. Its the one thing we have over the rest, two world class strikers. Then if we can get a cm in Jan we may be alright but its a long way back from here.

You definitely need cm players. Fellani is just not cutting it at the moment.

Why didn't you go for Ozil in the summer when he was made available? or even di maria who has fallen down the starting list?

My personal opinion is that if Rooney does leave the only player that would fit in as well for united would be Ibrahimovic, but you need CL football for him to join you. Ibrahimovic's style would really suit united's playing style.

One season without CL won't massively alter United's pulling power. It's a huge club and it would take more than one season without CL football to change it. They have more financial muscle than the likes of Borussia and will be able to suck players from clubs like that CL or not.

RVP left Arsenal because they weren't winning trophies over many seasons. Provided that Moyes convinces him that United will be challenging next season he won't leave simply because there is no CL next year.

United didn't sign players in the summer because their transfer dealings were utterly inept not because players didn't want to sign for the club. Anyone on earth could see that Fabregas wasn't leaving Barca and they put themselves over a barrel by underbidding for Fellaini/Baines.

Born Slippy wrote:One season without CL won't massively alter United's pulling power. It's a huge club and it would take more than one season without CL football to change it. They have more financial muscle than the likes of Borussia and will be able to suck players from clubs like that CL or not.

RVP left Arsenal because they weren't winning trophies over many seasons. Provided that Moyes convinces him that United will be challenging next season he won't leave simply because there is no CL next year.

United didn't sign players in the summer because their transfer dealings were utterly inept not because players didn't want to sign for the club. Anyone on earth could see that Fabregas wasn't leaving Barca and they put themselves over a barrel by underbidding for Fellaini/Baines.

but not qualyfing for the CL this year will make it harder to qualify in 14/15 andso on etc

Born Slippy wrote:One season without CL won't massively alter United's pulling power. It's a huge club and it would take more than one season without CL football to change it. They have more financial muscle than the likes of Borussia and will be able to suck players from clubs like that CL or not.

RVP left Arsenal because they weren't winning trophies over many seasons. Provided that Moyes convinces him that United will be challenging next season he won't leave simply because there is no CL next year.

United didn't sign players in the summer because their transfer dealings were utterly inept not because players didn't want to sign for the club. Anyone on earth could see that Fabregas wasn't leaving Barca and they put themselves over a barrel by underbidding for Fellaini/Baines.

that is a contradiction. Fabregas rejecting United is a player not wanting to sign for the club.

It will have no impact on qualifying the following season. Why would it? If anything, it makes it less likely they will fail to qualify as they won't be distracted.

Teams as big as United simply aren't affected by one season of failure provided they gave the cash to re-build and sensible management (jury still out on whether that is currently the case with United). It usually just acts as a wake up call with either the manager going or the purse strings being dramatically loosened. See Barca in 2003 as a decent example.

Fabregas rejected United because he is at Barca. CL or not United are not big enough to take players from Barca - no club is. That position, incidentally, would not change were Barca to somehow fail to finish top 4 for one season.

Born Slippy wrote:It will have no impact on qualifying the following season. Why would it? If anything, it makes it less likely they will fail to qualify as they won't be distracted.

Teams as big as United simply aren't affected by one season of failure provided they gave the cash to re-build and sensible management (jury still out on whether that is currently the case with United). It usually just acts as a wake up call with either the manager going or the purse strings being dramatically loosened. See Barca in 2003 as a decent example.

of course it will have an impact. Say liverpool, chelsea, city and arsenal qualify for the CL. The extra money they get from qualifying and the promise of CL football to any new buys means that those 4 teams will be able to reinforce their squads very strongly. United will have less money and will not be able to offer CL football.

United not qualifying for the CL lets their rivals gain more ground on them ], thus it will be harder for United to qualify for the CL the next season.

Born Slippy wrote:Fabregas rejected United because he is at Barca. CL or not United are not big enough to take players from Barca - no club is. That position, incidentally, would not change were Barca to somehow fail to finish top 4 for one season.

So he rejected United in favour of another club.......

Its impossible to predict how United will cope if they fail a top four finish since it will be the first time for a generation that it has occurred.
It could just be a minor blip that is rectified the following season, or it could be the start of a general decline.
United are a big team with a rich history and global fan base. However, so are Liverpool and they have struggled to attract big players to their club in recent years due to the lack CL football.
United aren’t also blessed with having a sugar daddy like City, Monaco or Chelsea who can lure in big players in by dazzling them with ridiculous wages.
With regards to Rooney, I think he'll go whether United get CL football or not.

I think it's more a case of players not choosing Moyes. Even with such a poor squad, under Ferguson I think they'd still have attracted some decent players. Sadly Moyes doesn't have anywhere near the same level of respect as Fergie ans that's as instrumental as anything in why players aren't going to Utd

I think regardless of whether they finish top 4 or not, United need a Chelsea/City style spending spree. The gap between United and the top teams now is talent. Players like Cleverley shouldn't be regulars, Young should've been gone last summer. United failed David Moyes last window and now they're paying the price.

I'm not so sure one season out of the CL will affect Utd's pulling power, certainly not domestically (they don't really buy too many from abroad, big time players).

If they miss out for more than one season that could be a problem, something like Liverpool are having to deal with. Then they'd have to be clever in the market picking up players like Liverpool have with Suarez/Coutinho/Sturridge

Bizarrely BT Sport have decided to bore their viewers to death on the 14th of January, as they will be showing the Fulham vs Norwich cup replay

Hammersmith harrier wrote:I know what your argument is and i've responded repeatedly as to why it specifically wont affect Man United, we're not a lowly team with aspirations of champions league qualification. A team that has dominated it's domestic league for over 20 years simply wont spiral into decline because of one bad season.

I wonder if these were the same arguments Liverpool fans were making in the late 80s and early 90s? Liverpool was every bit as dominant domestically and even more so on the European stage. I think United has more to worry about than one bad season. Their massive debt, their relatively bare cupboard of talent, a manager who has not adjusted to his first giant club, and their best player who does not seem to want to be there for the long haul.  And most importantly an ownership group that does not seem to back the club financially to the level where they can compete for the world class players they need. Most of these issues existed when SAF was there but he was the one guy who could keep all the balls in the air at the same time. United might finally start paying the price for the Glazer's leverage buyout and the financial strain it has put on the club.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/25628803

Do be prepared - the FA show some common sense!

No sanction or punishment of any kind against Theo.

It would of been particularly harsh in light of disgraceful actions of spurs fans abusing a player and throwing things at him while he is down on the ground and injured. A good decision.

Duty281 wrote:http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/25628803

Do be prepared - the FA show some common sense!

No sanction or punishment of any kind against Theo.

Oh nooooooo

  

socal1976 wrote:

Hammersmith harrier wrote:I know what your argument is and i've responded repeatedly as to why it specifically wont affect Man United, we're not a lowly team with aspirations of champions league qualification. A team that has dominated it's domestic league for over 20 years simply wont spiral into decline because of one bad season.

I wonder if these were the same arguments Liverpool fans were making in the late 80s and early 90s? Liverpool was every bit as dominant domestically and even more so on the European stage. I think United has more to worry about than one bad season. Their massive debt, their relatively bare cupboard of talent, a manager who has not adjusted to his first giant club, and their best player who does not seem to want to be there for the long haul.  And most importantly an ownership group that does not seem to back the club financially to the level where they can compete for the world class players they need. Most of these issues existed when SAF was there but he was the one guy who could keep all the balls in the air at the same time. United might finally start paying the price for the Glazer's leverage buyout and the financial strain it has put on the club.

There's no financial strain on the club in the slightest, you do talk out your arse sometimes.

The Liverpool comparisons would only be relevant if this became a long running problem which with our financial capabilities is very unlikely, we are after all the third richest club in the world. Huge debt is only ever a problem if it is unsustainable paying which ours is not and is actually far less than a club like say Real Madrid and it doesn't seem to harm them too much in the transfer market. Everyone keeps banging on about our inability to compete for the worlds best players when last season we bought your best god damn player who rejected one of the money boys to join us. I can take constructive criticism of my club but not the mindless crap you and Dior come out with, neither of you have a clue what you're talking about.

Harsh as it is to say the long term effects of Heysel had quite a damaging effect on Liverpool as a football club which took quite a few years to repair, we also have to consider football was a bit different back in the 80's and early 90's. It wasn't until Sky came about that english teams started to spend such a vast amount.

Hammersmith harrier wrote:

socal1976 wrote:

Hammersmith harrier wrote:I know what your argument is and i've responded repeatedly as to why it specifically wont affect Man United, we're not a lowly team with aspirations of champions league qualification. A team that has dominated it's domestic league for over 20 years simply wont spiral into decline because of one bad season.

I wonder if these were the same arguments Liverpool fans were making in the late 80s and early 90s? Liverpool was every bit as dominant domestically and even more so on the European stage. I think United has more to worry about than one bad season. Their massive debt, their relatively bare cupboard of talent, a manager who has not adjusted to his first giant club, and their best player who does not seem to want to be there for the long haul.  And most importantly an ownership group that does not seem to back the club financially to the level where they can compete for the world class players they need. Most of these issues existed when SAF was there but he was the one guy who could keep all the balls in the air at the same time. United might finally start paying the price for the Glazer's leverage buyout and the financial strain it has put on the club.

There's no financial strain on the club in the slightest, you do talk out your arse sometimes.

The Liverpool comparisons would only be relevant if this became a long running problem which with our financial capabilities is very unlikely, we are after all the third richest club in the world. Huge debt is only ever a problem if it is unsustainable paying which ours is not and is actually far less than a club like say Real Madrid and it doesn't seem to harm them too much in the transfer market. Everyone keeps banging on about our inability to compete for the worlds best players when last season we bought your best god damn player who rejected one of the money boys to join us. I can take constructive criticism of my club but not the mindless crap you and Dior come out with, neither of you have a clue what you're talking about.

Harsh as it is to say the long term effects of Heysel had quite a damaging effect on Liverpool as a football club which took quite a few years to repair, we also have to consider football was a bit different back in the 80's and early 90's. It wasn't until Sky came about that english teams started to spend such a vast amount.

Yeh you had CL football that is why van persie went to united instead of city. Do you think he would choose united over city if united finished 6th, had no CL football and Rooney had left? of course not.

That is the reason qualifiying for the CL is so important and I am struggling to see why you can't see it is important.

Liam wrote:That's what we're relying on atm, RVP to come back and him and Rooney to play to their potential. Its the one thing we have over the rest, two world class strikers. Then if we can get a cm in Jan we may be alright but its a long way back from here.

We won't sign anyone in January.

It's a pity liverpool and arsenal have had such a good 6 months as these are the 2 that will fall away, city and Chelsea won't.

We will need something ridiculous like 14 wins to make the cl, it's very unlikely.

Ent wrote:

Liam wrote:That's what we're relying on atm, RVP to come back and him and Rooney to play to their potential. Its the one thing we have over the rest, two world class strikers. Then if we can get a cm in Jan we may be alright but its a long way back from here.

We won't sign anyone in January.

It's a pity liverpool and arsenal have had such a good 6 months as these are the 2 that will fall away, city and Chelsea won't.

We will need something ridiculous like 14 wins to make the cl, it's very unlikely.

The best United will get is 4th and there are 3 other teams (liverpool,everton and tottenham) all competing with United for 4th.

20 games left in the season and united have to travel to Chelsea, Liverpool, Everton and Arsenal which are games that will be very tough for United to win.

It will be a struggle for United to finish 4th and they are really hoping Liverpool explode and tottenham and everton self-destruct as well.

Hammersmith harrier wrote:

socal1976 wrote:

Hammersmith harrier wrote:I know what your argument is and i've responded repeatedly as to why it specifically wont affect Man United, we're not a lowly team with aspirations of champions league qualification. A team that has dominated it's domestic league for over 20 years simply wont spiral into decline because of one bad season.

I wonder if these were the same arguments Liverpool fans were making in the late 80s and early 90s? Liverpool was every bit as dominant domestically and even more so on the European stage. I think United has more to worry about than one bad season. Their massive debt, their relatively bare cupboard of talent, a manager who has not adjusted to his first giant club, and their best player who does not seem to want to be there for the long haul.  And most importantly an ownership group that does not seem to back the club financially to the level where they can compete for the world class players they need. Most of these issues existed when SAF was there but he was the one guy who could keep all the balls in the air at the same time. United might finally start paying the price for the Glazer's leverage buyout and the financial strain it has put on the club.

There's no financial strain on the club in the slightest, you do talk out your arse sometimes.

The Liverpool comparisons would only be relevant if this became a long running problem which with our financial capabilities is very unlikely, we are after all the third richest club in the world. Huge debt is only ever a problem if it is unsustainable paying which ours is not and is actually far less than a club like say Real Madrid and it doesn't seem to harm them too much in the transfer market. Everyone keeps banging on about our inability to compete for the worlds best players when last season we bought your best god damn player who rejected one of the money boys to join us. I can take constructive criticism of my club but not the mindless crap you and Dior come out with, neither of you have a clue what you're talking about.

Harsh as it is to say the long term effects of Heysel had quite a damaging effect on Liverpool as a football club which took quite a few years to repair, we also have to consider football was a bit different back in the 80's and early 90's. It wasn't until Sky came about that english teams started to spend such a vast amount.

You do kibuki theatre out of your arse sometimes, like your nonsensical Ozil was a benchwarmer at Madrid and 10 first team spurs players were missing for the Arsenal game, and of course Arsenal had no injuries either I just imagined them finishing the match with 10 players. Man Utd is 3rd biggest club in the world because they win, their champion's league money represents 10 plus percent of their turnover. Without CL football they aren't the 3rd biggest club in the world. I have simply repeated what a lot of people have said that it will be tough to sign new talent without CL football and tough to retain it. Hardly an illogical or controversial statement. RVP joined you because of SAF's unprecedented history of winning major trophies, you don't have that anymore now do you?

Half time Replay scores

Birmingham City 1-0 Bristol Rovers

Bournemouth 2-1 Burton Albion

Charlton Athletic 0-2 Oxford United

Fulham 2-0 Norwich City

Milton Keynes Dons 1-0 Wigan Athletic

Peterborough United 1-0 Kidderminster Harriers

Plymouth Argyle 2-1 Port Vale

Preston North End 0-0 Ipswich Town

Sheffield Wednesday 1-0 Macclesfield Town

Watford 1-0 Bristol City

Congrats to Kidderminster Harriers. Non league team in round 4. Brilliant win at Peterborough. 

Also shout out to Preston for beating Ipswich town and in particular Joe Garner who scored a quick hatrick. 

Fulham 3-0 Norwich. Can't imagine that will please Olly and Tooze.

NickisBHAFC wrote:Congrats to Kidderminster Harriers. Non league team in round 4. Brilliant win at Peterborough. 

Also shout out to Preston for beating Ipswich town and in particular Joe Garner who scored a quick hatrick. 

Fulham 3-0 Norwich. Can't imagine that will please Olly and Tooze.

I bet it upset Delia too..!! I bet her old man didn't get a romantic, candle lit supper last night. Or any "afters" either.

Bournemouth v Liverpool is live.

Should be a good game.

Blackburn more than holding there own as far

Lobed a £5 on at 20/1 for a laugh.

Congratulations you've just lost a fiver

1-0 Negredo

City 1-0 up

Negredo

ffs

Ud have to be mentally special or a blackburn fan to waste money on them winning tonight   

Dunno 20/1 a fiver is nothing 100 quid back, fancied a laugh, its the magic of the cup. Tbf up to the goal, they were doing fine. Its game over now though.

Everyone else finding of orange boots on show off-putting Ha!

4-0 Aguero on his first couple of touches.

What a player.

VDT wrote:Everyone else finding of orange boots on show off-putting Ha!

^^^ 

City have some serious firepower no doubt.