England *EPS 2014* and 6N Squad

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EPS

Forwards (17)
David Attwood (Bath Rugby) Dan Cole (Leicester Tigers) Alex Corbisiero (Northampton Saints) Tom Croft (Leicester Tigers) Dylan Hartley (Northampton Saints) Matt Kvesic (Gloucester Rugby) Joe Launchbury (London Wasps) Courtney Lawes (Northampton Saints) Joe Marler (Harlequins) Ben Morgan (Gloucester Rugby) Geoff Parling (Leicester Tigers) Chris Robshaw (Harlequins) Billy Vunipola (Saracens) Mako Vunipola (Saracens) David Wilson (Bath Rugby) Tom Wood (Northampton Saints) Tom Youngs (Leicester Tigers)

Backs (16)
Chris Ashton (Saracens) Brad Barritt (Saracens) Mike Brown (Harlequins) Freddie Burns (Gloucester Rugby) Danny Care (Harlequins) Lee Dickson (Northampton Saints) Owen Farrell (Saracens) George Ford (Bath Rugby) Ben Foden (Northampton Saints) Alex Goode (Saracens) Kyle Eastmond (Bath Rugby) Manusamoa Tuilagi (Leicester Tigers) Billy Twelvetrees (Gloucester Rugby) Christian Wade (London Wasps) Marland Yarde (London Irish) Ben Youngs (Leicester Tigers)


England RBS 6 Nations squad (35)

Forwards (18)
David Attwood (Bath Rugby) Dan Cole (Leicester Tigers) Dylan Hartley (Northampton Saints) Matt Kvesic (Gloucester Rugby) Tom Johnson (Exeter Chiefs) Joe Launchbury (London Wasps) Courtney Lawes (Northampton Saints) Joe Marler (Harlequins) Ben Morgan (Gloucester Rugby) Matt Mullan (London Wasps) Chris Robshaw (Harlequins) Ed Slater (Leicester Tigers) Henry Thomas (Sale Sharks) Billy Vunipola (Saracens) Mako Vunipola (Saracens) Rob Webber (Bath Rugby) Tom Wood (Northampton Saints) Tom Youngs (Leicester Tigers)

Backs (17)
Chris Ashton (Saracens) Brad Barritt (Saracens) Mike Brown (Harlequins) Luther Burrell (Northampton Saints) Danny Care (Harlequins) Lee Dickson (Northampton Saints) Kyle Eastmond (Bath Rugby) Owen Farrell (Saracens) George Ford (Bath Rugby) Alex Goode (Saracens) Jonny May (Gloucester Rugby) Stephen Myler (Northampton Saints) Jack Nowell (Exeter Chiefs) Billy Twelvetrees (Gloucester Rugby) Anthony Watson (Bath Rugby) Richard Wigglesworth (Saracens) Ben Youngs (Leicester Tigers)


England Saxons squad:
Forwards (17): C Clark (Northampton), J Crane (Leicester), P Doran Jones (Harlequins), W Fraser (Saracens), J Haskell (Wasps), T Johnson (Exeter), G Kitchener (Leicester), G Kruis (Saracens), K Myall (Wasps), D Paice (London Irish), G Robson (Harlequins), E Slater (Leicester), H Thomas (Sale), T Waldrom (Leicester), L Wallace (Harlequins), R Webber (Bath), N Wood (Gloucester).

Backs (15): A Allen (Leicester), L Burrell (Northampton), E Daly (Wasps), G Ford (Bath), J Joseph (Bath), J May (Gloucester), U Monye (Harlequins), S Myler (Northampton), J Nowell (Exeter), C Sharples (Gloucester), J Simpson (Wasps), D Strettle (Saracens), M Tait (Leicester), J Tomkins (Saracens), R Wigglesworth (Saracens).

beshocked wrote:chjw131 what do you suggest then?

Barritt was pretty successful at 13 vs Scotland and Ireland last 6 nations. I think he might be picked there again.

It's a tough one. Barritt has looked back to fitness in the games i've seen for Sarries but not at his best yet. With what's available in the squad I think we have to look at the backline as a whole.

My pick would be: 9. R Wigglesworth 10. O Farrell 11. J May 12. L Burrell 13. B Twelvetrees 14. C Ashton 15. M Brown - it's not the best balance but I think it could work well enough with Ashton coming in off the wing. Burrell carries well and provides a target. 36 is good defensively and offers some extra distribution and a secondary kicking game from 13. He'll also be able to help with Basteraud coming down the channel!

For what it's worth, I think we will see Burrell at 12 and Barritt at 13 and i am OK with that.

I think this is the best way to introduce Burell, ie in the position he is familiar with and I think he is the leading candidate.

12T's has not been at his best and that is in his regular position, I doubt he will play better being shunted out to 13.

Barritt has played 13 before, twice I think and neither was a disaster. France are likely to have Fofana or Basteraud(?) at 13, either of whom needs careful attention defensively.

Chjw131 wrote:He'll also be able to help with Basteraud coming down the channel!

That right there is why I think SL & AF will go with Barritt at 13 for the France game. Think SL is a conservative coach in terms of selection and will go for what his feels if his best defender against the big man.

Think the backs will line up against France (injuries permitting)

9- Dickson
10- Farrell
11- May (hopefully, please not Brown with Goode at 15).
12- Twelvetrees
13- Barritt
14- Ashton
15- Brown

Care, Ford & Goode on the bench.

See a few people thinking they may go with Barritt & Burrell in the centers. If that's the case then expect Goode to start at 15. Can't see that SL will not have either Twelvetrees or Goode starting for the second kicker option, and not just place kicking but also also to cover kicks at goal. Points are precious at this level, if Farrell was to pick up a temporary knock or spend 10 minutes in the bin early in the game there is no kicker on the field if it is Barritt & Burrell in the centers and Brown at FB.

  

Armchairexpert wrote:For what it's worth, I think we will see Burrell at 12 and Barritt at 13 and i am OK with that.

I think this is the best way to introduce Burell, ie in the position he is familiar with and I think he is the leading candidate.

12T's has not been at his best and that is in his regular position, I doubt he will play better being shunted out to 13.

Barritt has played 13 before, twice I think and neither was a disaster. France are likely to have Fofana or Basteraud(?) at 13, either of whom needs careful attention defensively.

have only seen a handful of games with burrell recently, but i really like what i see. big, strong, and picks great lines. 12T has really been struggling recently. i think it's definitely time to give Burrell a shot. and i also think its really important for players to feel that if they perform in the AP, they can force their way onto the starting team sheet. especially where there is real competition for places. we have to go with the form players, especially 18 months away from rwc.

Elliott Stooke has been excellent for Gloucester this year, thoroughly deserved.

Young Gloucester Rugby lock Elliott Stooke has been added to the England Saxons squad preparing to face the O2 Ireland Wolfhounds at Kingsholm on Saturday, January 25 (5pm, live on Sky Sports HD1).

Stooke, 20, replaces injured Leicester Tigers lock Graham Kitchener to join fellow Junior World Championship winners Henry Slade and Sam Hill in the 23-man group.

Three further injury replacements see Harlequins centre Matt Hopper, Sale Sharks full back Rob Miller and Northampton Saints prop Tom Mercey take over from Bath Rugby’s Jonathan Joseph, Mathew Tait and Harlequins’ Will Collier.

No replacements have been called up in place of Leicester Tigers wing Miles Benjamin and flanker Jamie Gibson, who will be reassessed at the end of the week with a view to being available for the match against Scotland A in Glasgow on January 31.

England Saxons squad to face O2 Ireland Wolfhounds

Forwards (13)


Nathan Catt (Bath Rugby)
Calum Clark (Northampton Saints)
Sam Dickinson (Northampton Saints)
Dave Ewers (Exeter Chiefs)
Jamie George (Saracens)
George Kruis (Saracens)
Charlie Matthews (Harlequins)
Tom Mercey (Northampton Saints)
Elliott Stooke (Gloucester Rugby)
Luke Wallace (Harlequins)
Alex Waller (Northampton Saints)
Dave Ward (Harlequins)
Scott Wilson (Newcastle Falcons)



Backs (10)


Freddie Burns (Gloucester Rugby)
Elliot Daly (London Wasps)
Sam Hill (Exeter Chiefs)
Matt Hopper (Harlequins)
Dave Lewis (Exeter Chiefs)
Rob Miller (Sale Sharks)
Joe Simpson (London Wasps)
Henry Slade (Exeter Chiefs)
Semesa Rokoduguni (Bath Rugby)
Tom Varndell (London Wasps)

I think Burrell at 13 is the most sensible choice. He's 26yo and the majority of his career from 2006-2012 was spent at 13 for Leeds and Sale (something Lancaster would be well aware of from his time at Leeds in charge of the academy and then DOR). In terms of general gameplan, given whoever is at 13 will just be keeping the spot warm for Manu, Burrell is also the most likely of the selected centres to emulate what Manu brings. Plus there is the precedent that Lancaster played Burrell at 13 outside Eastmond for the match against CONSUR XV on last year's Argentina tour.

Maybe it's because of the lean years England had in the second row, but I'm loving the production line of young locks. Joe Launchbury, Courtney Lawes, Elliott Stooke, Graham Kitchener, George Kruis, Charlie Matthews and Dom Barrow and not one of them over 25!

That's not even mentioning 'oldies' like Dave Attwood and Ed Slater.

I think some of the posters on this thread must have missed Lancaster's comments regarding the centres a couple of weeks ago.

England coach Stuart Lancaster believes new boy Luther Burrell can form an exciting centre partnership with Billy Twelvetrees.

...

"I could easily see a scenario when Luther and Billy paired up," he said.

...

"What we need to look at in terms of selection is who the best guy to defend at 13 will be.

"Luther's had plenty of experience doing that at Sale. So that's the bit we're going to have to look at during the first few days of the camp.

"But I could definitely see that combination playing together. I think Kyle Eastmond and Brad Barritt will have something to say about that.

"And Brad's obviously played in that position consistently at Saracens, he's been an outstanding defender in the 13 channel.

"But obviously he's only just coming back to full form and fitness."

http://www1.skysports.com/rugby-union/news/12504/9108646/stuart-lancaster-backs-luther-burrell-to-thrive-in-englands-midfield

"What we need to look at in terms of selection is who the best guy to defend at 13 will be.

Wouldn't it be nice to hear him actually say....we need to look at who can really ATTACK that 13 channel and cause THEM all sorts of problems!

100% agree with that.

Other question...is everyone agreed that Johnny May should start on the wing?

Pleaaaaase play Daly at 13 in the Saxons

The other option of course is that Kyle Eastmond has played a lot of rugby on the wing and at 13...

9 - Whoever
10 - Farrell
11 - May
12 - Burrell
13 - Eastmond / Daly
14 - Ashton
15 - Brown

Its highly inexperienced but you've got power, defence, strike runners, creativity..people who can create things from nothing....

Though you could easily swap Eastmond for Daly...

ChequeredJersey wrote:Pleaaaaase play Daly at 13 in the Saxons

Looking at the Saxons list it's a shoot-out between him and Hopper. Then either Daly or Miller will cover FB with the other on the bench. Hopper has played a lot of 13 for Quins this year. I'm keeping everything crossed for you.   

GeordieFalcon wrote:"What we need to look at in terms of selection is who the best guy to defend at 13 will be.

Wouldn't it be nice to hear him actually say....we need to look at who can really ATTACK that 13 channel and cause THEM all sorts of problems!

The bit just before that quote that MBernz has omitted says:

"you use one of the centres as someone who gets you across the gain line, and another who becomes an option to get you across the line but is also a second distributor and ball player."

In conjunction with the rest of his comments he seems to be suggesting that he feels 36 & Burrell fulfill those attacking roles and that getting the best out of them in that regard isn't much affected by which way round they are numbered, but that who best defends the wider 13 channel given neither are currently featuring in it for their clubs could end up finally deciding it.

Is no one a little concern that the following backline looks really frak slow for International rugby?

9. Dickson/Wigglesworth - Never run the ball
10. Farrell - Slow runner when he does run (not often)
12. Twelvetrees - Power runner but not quick
13. Burrell or Barrett - Same as 36, picks good lines but not quick
14. Ashton - A fairly slow winger comparitively
15. Brown - A fairly slow fullback comparitively

So that leaves 11 to be a pace merchant! Pray that May is picked because if we go with a second full back or Strettle it'll be even worse!

Compare those guys to other teams players and I think we're losing out a lot here. France have Fofana, Rougerie, Medard or a host of other electric fb's. Ireland have Earles, Fitz and Kearney, Wales have Cuthbert, North and 1/2P.

I can see already that this 6N's is going to be ugly. How many tries were scored last year? Perhaps we'll set a new record low...

Yappysnap Ashton is not a slow winger. Agree with the rest though.

Pace is not Ashton's problem, it's his tackling and his inability to make an impact for England (because the gameplan doesn't bring the back three into the game).

Geordiefalcon I would be really worried defensively if Eastmond starts at 13 as a new centre partnership with Burrell.

You need to balance it though beshocked. I think we all agree that the back three aren't seeing enough of the ball and mostly agree it's because of the midfield. The pack are securing a lot of possession is it time to roll the dice on some spark?

beshocked wrote:Pace is not Ashton's problem, it's his tackling and his inability to make an impact for England (because the gameplan doesn't bring the back three into the game).

But Brown gets into the game!
I think we'll just have to accept that Ashton isn't as good as we/He thought he was going to be at this level.

So lets stop making excuses for him please!   

Beshocked is right, Ashton has some issues, but pace is definitely not one of them

Thank you BamBam.

Scrumpy Brown only gets into the game when the ball is kicked to him by the opposition. I doubt he gets the ball often from his team mates!

no 7 and 1/2 I agree balance is important but how does one do that with the current players at England's disposal?

beshocked wrote:Thank you BamBam.

Scrumpy Brown only gets into the game when the ball is kicked to him by the opposition. I doubt he gets the ball often from his team mates!

no 7 and 1/2 I agree balance is important but how does one do that with the current players at England's disposal?

Beshocked, certainly true at Int level, very untrue at AP and HEC level re Brown!

Yet no one is making excuses for Brown   

beshocked wrote:Thank you BamBam.

Scrumpy Brown only gets into the game when the ball is kicked to him by the opposition. I doubt he gets the ball often from his team mates!

no 7 and 1/2 I agree balance is important but how does one do that with the current players at England's disposal?

Pick players on offensive intent then worry about defense rather than the other way around.

No 7&1/2 wrote:

beshocked wrote:Thank you BamBam.

Scrumpy Brown only gets into the game when the ball is kicked to him by the opposition. I doubt he gets the ball often from his team mates!

no 7 and 1/2 I agree balance is important but how does one do that with the current players at England's disposal?

Pick players on offensive intent then worry about defense rather than the other way around.

How ironic then that people want to see the top try scorer in the HC dropped, the top try scorer in the AP isn't even deemed as good enough for the Saxons etc.

Instead fans want to see wingers who are supposedly better defenders yet struggle to score tries for their clubs like Watson and Nowell.

You talk about offense intent - who in your opinion fills that role?

I feel that when people talk about England selection they are sometimes believe that pace and dancing feet = good attack.

Eastmond is seen as a good option at centre - supposedly creative, really attacking etc yet he and the Bath backline don't score many tries.

Maybe thats down to the weather or a muddy pitch in Bath?

Bath are 4th for tries scored this year so far, not that bad

Sarries =38
Saints =36
Tigers =26
Bath =24

I think the problem Beshocked is that we really dont seem to have anyone who can break a defence down with skill, a quick side step, a subtle pass etc etc.

Hence why we're looking for players who show potential to do that like Wade, May, Eastmond etc etc. Hopefully Twelvetrees can pick up and start doing this. Its only early days for him, and needs more games, but at the moment he isnt flying.

I also think we have a problem with the whole team tactics aswell. Its not just the personnel...ie bar Morgan...and now Billy and Mako...who has been crashing through making the hard yards, sucking in defenders and offloading...for the backs (like Ashton) to capitalise on the space?

I wouldnt drop Ashton...hes a major weapon...but we're just not using him at all. Oh and i dont think he has a problem with pace either...but yes the rest of the backline is not exactly rapid.

First off do you think Strettle is a good option on the wing with all our wingers fit? I think he's had his chances for England and hasn't taken them. Even when scoring against Argentina in the summer he still managed to look under par. I think it's time to see what some new players can do like Nowell and Watson.

The centres are a difficult choice but I would like Lancaster to choose the combo because of what they can do going forward, or at least half a mind on it. I think Eastmond could offer something more in attack even if Bath don't score as many as saracens do.

no 7 and 1/2 Yarde and Wade are unfit so it's irrelevant. Without Wade and Yarde the cupboard on the wing looks bare.

You can pick Nowell and Watson but it's not for their attack, it's for their defence. Attack would be for someone like Rokodiguini and May who have actually scored more than 1 try this season.

I wouldn't be against seeing those two.

In regards to Eastmond, I hope he can live up to the hype.

I think we're agree that Ashton, May and Brown is the way forward currently? I don't think Nowell and Watson are there for their defence though.

I'm not hyping Eastmond as the saviour either just putting his name forward whose strengths lie in more attacking work than in stopping the opposition.

Ah I love a good debate about England's backline!

I won't go over my reasons again for the younger wingers, I have long championed their inclusion. One of my main reasons for not picking Ashton is not his AP/HEC try record (which is good), nor his work rate off the ball (also good). It's his decision making and effectiveness or lack thereof in an England shirt.

Case in point Argentina game (of the top of my head), one utterly dire kick chase, one missed chance when he hesitated, one try which actually shouldn't probably have been a try because he didn't put the sodding ball down (how hard is it to do that, ball over line, ground it). For me these were just too obvious mistakes from someone who is one of the most experienced players in the backline.

In regards to Eastmond, I hope he can live up to the hype

Again, its not just him...Daly, Watson, May, Wade, Yarde...they're all being hyped up becausse we're so desperate for some attacking quality / skills in there.

None of them might make the grade...but in reality we only need one or two of them two...becuase we know the majority of the team will be defence based big powerhouses....

Ashton's faults become highlighted more and more when he's not performing for England. He's a good player with a top work-rate but he's unconventional as wingers go. If you're not going to have a gameplan which utilises his strengths it's pointless selecting him.

At present he seems to be obsessed with grubber kicks for England and I don't think i've ever seen him score from that.

What Lancs wants are traditional wingers who are quick. Well some say he might actually want FBs who are quick across the back three but the point stands. At the moment the best fit for that type is May on the left wing and probably Watson on the right. They both offer an individual threat in the classic position.

Ashton on the other hand offers threat through the middle, coming across from one wing to another and latching on to offloads. He has pace but not to the same level as the likes of May, Wade, Sharples etc..

Guscott has spoken! (on BBC)

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/rugby-union/

Its time to drop Ashton.

little badger you make some fair points but does that mean you permanently wave goodbye to Ashton's international career?

You'll have to convince me why you think Watson and Nowell should start for England.

chjw131 who cares how wingers score as long as they do it?

I want wingers who score tries - if Nowell and Watson are so ineffectual at a lower level who do we expect them to do better at international level?

Geordiefalcon what is attacking?

Personally I think Burrell is far more attacking than Eastmond. 3 tries in 12 AP games. Compared to 1 in 8.

Would love to see the stats like line breaks, defenders beaten etc.

I am sure Burrell would beat Eastmond. I am sure Goode beats Watson.

Picking a team on stats alone is a dangerous game Beshocked.

If only it was that easy!   

Scrumpy I am not suggesting picking a side on stats alone. I am saying that they should not just be ignored.

Ask and ye shall receive beshocked.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/rugbyunion/results/6501976/Rugby-Union-Results.html

Who knows if its 100% accurate but Watson beats Goode on meters made and defenders beaten here.

beshocked wrote:little badger you make some fair points but does that mean you permanently wave goodbye to Ashton's international career?

You'll have to convince me why you think Watson and Nowell should start for England.

chjw131 who cares how wingers score as long as they do it?

I want wingers who score tries - if Nowell and Watson are so ineffectual at a lower level who do we expect them to do better at international level?

Geordiefalcon what is attacking?

Personally I think Burrell is far more attacking than Eastmond. 3 tries in 12 AP games. Compared to 1 in 8.

Would love to see the stats like line breaks, defenders beaten etc.

I am sure Burrell would beat Eastmond. I am sure Goode beats Watson.

Well that's really the whole point Beshocked and if we want to move on in the world we need to be a little more circumspect than to adopt your philosophy of stats telling the whole story.

If you don't care how the winger scores his tries how are you ever to understand how to get the best out of him or the team as a whole. My point was actually in part, a defence of Ashton.

Bathman_in_London wrote:Ask and ye shall receive beshocked.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/rugbyunion/results/6501976/Rugby-Union-Results.html

Who knows if its 100% accurate but Watson beats Goode on meters made and defenders beaten here.

Fair enough. Thanks for the link.

According to it - Strettle has the most line breaks - 14. May,Yarde,Cueto and Goode - 9, Banahan,James, North,Ashton and Wade on 8.

Interestingly none of the Sarries guys are on the defenders beaten list but 3 make the most breaks list plus try list.


Some of these stats are interesting. Saracens have the lowest tackling %.


Well it explains why Lancaster has gone for Nowell and Watson in his squad. It's for beating defenders.

Goode has beaten the 3rd most amount of defenders in the HC. 3rd most metres too.

Barring Charlie boy there's not a single Saracen back I would select;

Wiggesworth - either Youngs or Care (wiggy can't even get ahead of a 36 year South African at club level so there's no way on earth he is England’s sh).
Farrell - Either Burns, Cipriani, Flood or Ford (or CH) are ahead of Farrell - Very limited game, lacks creativity, Strong defender and place kicker. It amazes me that playing at the same club as CH he has failed to develop the obviously weak areas of his game. Was shown up against Toulouse....easily worked out and unable to vary his game.
Barritt - Twelvetrees has the shirt and contrary to the tosh written above is playing very well in difficult circumstances (did you watch the last two heiny games?) Burrell and Eastmond are both playing well and are ahead of Barritt who is returning from injury. Barritt is a steady solid player who has shown his hand for England, others now have the opportunity.
Tomkins is injured and not international Union standard. Burrell should be given the OC berth, others; Trinder is injured, Joseph is showing form, are alternatives to MT ahead of Tomkins and Barritt should never be considered for OC ahead of them.
Ashton is Ashton, limited frustrating, brash goal hanger. Not in the world’s top 10. Various wings injured and available deserve the opportunity; I would select Sharples who is showing form. Obviously if Wade can return unscaved from injury then the shirt is his for the next cycle. Wade is his own man but to be fair he is taking the batten from JSD and is the closest I have seen to Billy Wiz.
Strettle must never wear white again. Everyone is hyping May and yes he is a tremendous talent however I believe Watson has the greater rugby brain and though it is a close call would get my selection at this time.
I will remove Bomber from his mortal coil if Goode is selected again - Vaseline Brown deservedly has the shirt. May or Watson can cover fb.

Youngs
Cipriani/Burns
Sharples/Wade
Twelvetrees
Burrell/MT
Watson
Brown

Balls on the table boys!

Yarde looks like he may be available towards the back of the tournament.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/rugby-union/25826994

Hopefully we have some settled wingers by then so we don't rush him back.

kingelderfield wrote:Barring Charlie boy there's not a single Saracen back I would select;

Wiggesworth - either Youngs or Care (wiggy can't even get ahead of a 36 year South African at club level so there's no way on earth he is England’s sh).

Farrell - Either Burns, Cipriani, Flood or Ford (or CH) are ahead of Farrell - Very limited game, lacks creativity, Strong defender and place kicker. It amazes me that playing at the same club as CH he has failed to develop the obviously weak areas of his game. Was shown up against Toulouse....easily worked out and unable to vary his game.

Barritt - Twelvetrees has the shirt and contrary to the tosh written above is playing very well in difficult circumstances (did you watch the last two heiny games?) Burrell and Eastmond are both playing well and are ahead of Barritt who is returning from injury. Barritt is a steady solid player who has shown his hand for England, others now have the opportunity.

Tomkins is injured and not international Union standard. Burrell should be given the OC berth, others; Trinder is injured, Joseph is showing form, are alternatives to MT ahead of Tomkins and Barritt should never be considered for OC ahead of them.

Ashton is Ashton, limited frustrating, brash goal hanger. Not in the world’s top 10. Various wings injured and available deserve the opportunity; I would select Sharples who is showing form. Obviously if Wade can return unscaved from injury then the shirt is his for the next cycle. Wade is his own man but to be fair he is taking the batten from JSD and is the closest I have seen to Billy Wiz.

Strettle must never wear white again. Everyone is hyping May and yes he is a tremendous talent however I believe Watson has the greater rugby brain and though it is a close call would get my selection at this time.
I will remove Bomber from his mortal coil if Goode is selected again - Vaseline Brown deservedly has the shirt. May or Watson can cover fb.

Youngs
Cipriani/Burns
Sharples/Wade
Twelvetrees
Burrell/MT
Watson
Brown

Balls on the table boys!

Firstly if you put lines spaces etc...instead of a block of words people might actually be bothered to read it.

Secondly having done so...most of what you say is utter tosh...so i wish i hadnt.

Theres talk on the Quins' board that Lancaster is trying to convert Marler to tighthead to cover Cole.....

Marler struggles to scrummage at LH never mind TH.

Glad you said it, I'd be chased out with pitchforks   

Good luck with that one bomber!   

Bit harsh Sgt Pooly. Marler was decent in the AIs.

Kingelderfield   

Wigglesworth - have you ever heard of a thing called rotation? Wigglesworth and De Kock share 9 duties. Both get plenty of game time. Rugby is about the squad not just the first XV. Plus De Kock didn't have a problem scoring vs Gloucester.

Farrell - seriously Burns ahead of Farrell based on current form? Flood has burnt his bridges by signing for Toulouse. Cipriani - remains to be seen if he has the bottle. Ford - throwing him in vs France away would be foolish. CH has retired from international rugby.

Barritt- well it's a fight between 36-Burrell and Barritt for the 12 and 13 shirts in my opinion.

Tomkins - I agree he played poorly when given chance internationally but if he can play well at club level when back from injury.....

Ashton - you completely ruin your argument by mentioning Sharples, a player who was shown up to be inadequate at international level, yet another of the overrated Gloucester backline who has done very little this season.

So many more wingers are ahead of him - the likes of Elliott,Cueto,Rokodiguini,Banahan,Walker,Nowell,Watson,Ashton,Strettle,Benjamin,Thompstone,Varndell,May - pretty much any other winger in the AP!

Ashton is surprisingly underrated. Top try scorer in the HC - 7 in 6 games. 4 in 8 AP games.

If a winger had those kind of try scoring stats and played for anyone but Sarries people would be shouting from the rooftops.

Goode - perhaps you haven't watched any rugby this season but he's been very goode indeed. On the long list for HC player of 2014 and deservedly so - 3rd in defenders beaten and most metres made. In terms of full backs him and Brown are heads and shoulders above the rest at the moment - don't count Foden because he is injured.


More sensible argument would be:

Wanting to see Watson and Nowell instead of Ashton because they beat more defenders and they should be stronger defensively. They suit Lancaster's gameplan more. Neither score tries but that's not what Lancaster's wingers are for.

I think Lancaster wants his wingers to score tries! Wish you would get away from looking purely in terms of stats though, all the wingers included have their good and bad points and looking purely at tries scored is not the way to go.

How do they score tries when they rarely get the ball ? You need centres that pass