England *EPS 2014* and 6N Squad

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EPS

Forwards (17)
David Attwood (Bath Rugby) Dan Cole (Leicester Tigers) Alex Corbisiero (Northampton Saints) Tom Croft (Leicester Tigers) Dylan Hartley (Northampton Saints) Matt Kvesic (Gloucester Rugby) Joe Launchbury (London Wasps) Courtney Lawes (Northampton Saints) Joe Marler (Harlequins) Ben Morgan (Gloucester Rugby) Geoff Parling (Leicester Tigers) Chris Robshaw (Harlequins) Billy Vunipola (Saracens) Mako Vunipola (Saracens) David Wilson (Bath Rugby) Tom Wood (Northampton Saints) Tom Youngs (Leicester Tigers)

Backs (16)
Chris Ashton (Saracens) Brad Barritt (Saracens) Mike Brown (Harlequins) Freddie Burns (Gloucester Rugby) Danny Care (Harlequins) Lee Dickson (Northampton Saints) Owen Farrell (Saracens) George Ford (Bath Rugby) Ben Foden (Northampton Saints) Alex Goode (Saracens) Kyle Eastmond (Bath Rugby) Manusamoa Tuilagi (Leicester Tigers) Billy Twelvetrees (Gloucester Rugby) Christian Wade (London Wasps) Marland Yarde (London Irish) Ben Youngs (Leicester Tigers)


England RBS 6 Nations squad (35)

Forwards (18)
David Attwood (Bath Rugby) Dan Cole (Leicester Tigers) Dylan Hartley (Northampton Saints) Matt Kvesic (Gloucester Rugby) Tom Johnson (Exeter Chiefs) Joe Launchbury (London Wasps) Courtney Lawes (Northampton Saints) Joe Marler (Harlequins) Ben Morgan (Gloucester Rugby) Matt Mullan (London Wasps) Chris Robshaw (Harlequins) Ed Slater (Leicester Tigers) Henry Thomas (Sale Sharks) Billy Vunipola (Saracens) Mako Vunipola (Saracens) Rob Webber (Bath Rugby) Tom Wood (Northampton Saints) Tom Youngs (Leicester Tigers)

Backs (17)
Chris Ashton (Saracens) Brad Barritt (Saracens) Mike Brown (Harlequins) Luther Burrell (Northampton Saints) Danny Care (Harlequins) Lee Dickson (Northampton Saints) Kyle Eastmond (Bath Rugby) Owen Farrell (Saracens) George Ford (Bath Rugby) Alex Goode (Saracens) Jonny May (Gloucester Rugby) Stephen Myler (Northampton Saints) Jack Nowell (Exeter Chiefs) Billy Twelvetrees (Gloucester Rugby) Anthony Watson (Bath Rugby) Richard Wigglesworth (Saracens) Ben Youngs (Leicester Tigers)


England Saxons squad:
Forwards (17): C Clark (Northampton), J Crane (Leicester), P Doran Jones (Harlequins), W Fraser (Saracens), J Haskell (Wasps), T Johnson (Exeter), G Kitchener (Leicester), G Kruis (Saracens), K Myall (Wasps), D Paice (London Irish), G Robson (Harlequins), E Slater (Leicester), H Thomas (Sale), T Waldrom (Leicester), L Wallace (Harlequins), R Webber (Bath), N Wood (Gloucester).

Backs (15): A Allen (Leicester), L Burrell (Northampton), E Daly (Wasps), G Ford (Bath), J Joseph (Bath), J May (Gloucester), U Monye (Harlequins), S Myler (Northampton), J Nowell (Exeter), C Sharples (Gloucester), J Simpson (Wasps), D Strettle (Saracens), M Tait (Leicester), J Tomkins (Saracens), R Wigglesworth (Saracens).

If Lancaster wants his wingers to score more tries, he should try using them

Perhaps players should think for themselfs sometimes.

That line of thinking got Brian Ashton fired.

Madness, what do you think we are?

Bathman_in_London wrote:That line of thinking got Brian Ashton fired.

His line of thinking that Ian Balshaw and Cueto were fullbacks didnt help either.

Its funny how we now see England managers obsessed with playing fullbacks on the wing.

Ho hum.

Who was it who played Monye at FB? They should be shot

ChequeredJersey wrote:Who was it who played Monye at FB? They should be shot

Johnson. I've got an idea he had Cueto actually available as well, who was at least competent there!

Not only was it bad for England, and for Quins who had to play him there (and Browny was at the club...) but it was also grossly unfair on Ugo. We are lucky that Brown at wing went somewhat better if not ideally

ChequeredJersey wrote:Not only was it bad for England, and for Quins who had to play him there (and Browny was at the club...) but it was also grossly unfair on Ugo. We are lucky that Brown at wing went somewhat better if not ideally

Got to be the second worst positional switch of all time?

Chjw131 wrote:

ChequeredJersey wrote:Who was it who played Monye at FB? They should be shot

Johnson. I've got an idea he had Cueto actually available as well, who was at least competent there!

Cueto switched there at half time of the Argentina game.

In fairness to Johnson, Monye had been playing very well at full back for Quins while Brown was injured.

Good old Mauro

Chjw131 wrote:

ChequeredJersey wrote:Not only was it bad for England, and for Quins who had to play him there (and Browny was at the club...) but it was also grossly unfair on Ugo. We are lucky that Brown at wing went somewhat better if not ideally

Got to be the second worst positional switch of all time?

Are we counting Henry Paul to Union as a positional switch? ( I assume youre refering to the Bergafiasco!)

Tom Court to tighthead didn't work brilliantly that one time either.

Peter Seabiscuit Wheeler wrote:

Chjw131 wrote:

ChequeredJersey wrote:Not only was it bad for England, and for Quins who had to play him there (and Browny was at the club...) but it was also grossly unfair on Ugo. We are lucky that Brown at wing went somewhat better if not ideally

Got to be the second worst positional switch of all time?

Are we counting Henry Paul to Union as a positional switch? ( I assume youre refering to the Bergafiasco!)

Ha no but i'm sure it should count. Yes Bergagate.

thomh wrote:Tom Court to tighthead didn't work brilliantly that one time either.

Out of the squads altogether seems a touch harsh he's not a bad player.

timhen wrote:

GeordieFalcon wrote:"What we need to look at in terms of selection is who the best guy to defend at 13 will be.

Wouldn't it be nice to hear him actually say....we need to look at who can really ATTACK that 13 channel and cause THEM all sorts of problems!

The bit just before that quote that MBernz has omitted says:

"you use one of the centres as someone who gets you across the gain line, and another who becomes an option to get you across the line but is also a second distributor and ball player."

In conjunction with the rest of his comments he seems to be suggesting that he feels 36 & Burrell fulfill those attacking roles and that getting the best out of them in that regard isn't much affected by which way round they are numbered, but that who best defends the wider 13 channel given neither are currently featuring in it for their clubs could end up finally deciding it.

More comments along those lines today:

"We've got some decisions to make in the centres, but we are pleased with Kyle Eastmond, Billy Twelvetrees, Luther Burrell and Brad. The good thing about Luther is he came to Argentina, he was involved in the QBEs even though he didn't play.

"That concept of inside, outside centre is a slightly outdated one for modern rugby. You need one guy to get you across the gain-line and one to act as a playmaker."

GeordieFalcon wrote:

kingelderfield wrote:Barring Charlie boy there's not a single Saracen back I would select;

Wiggesworth - either Youngs or Care (wiggy can't even get ahead of a 36 year South African at club level so there's no way on earth he is England’s sh).

Farrell - Either Burns, Cipriani, Flood or Ford (or CH) are ahead of Farrell - Very limited game, lacks creativity, Strong defender and place kicker. It amazes me that playing at the same club as CH he has failed to develop the obviously weak areas of his game. Was shown up against Toulouse....easily worked out and unable to vary his game.

Barritt - Twelvetrees has the shirt and contrary to the tosh written above is playing very well in difficult circumstances (did you watch the last two heiny games?) Burrell and Eastmond are both playing well and are ahead of Barritt who is returning from injury. Barritt is a steady solid player who has shown his hand for England, others now have the opportunity.

Tomkins is injured and not international Union standard. Burrell should be given the OC berth, others; Trinder is injured, Joseph is showing form, are alternatives to MT ahead of Tomkins and Barritt should never be considered for OC ahead of them.

Ashton is Ashton, limited frustrating, brash goal hanger. Not in the world’s top 10. Various wings injured and available deserve the opportunity; I would select Sharples who is showing form. Obviously if Wade can return unscaved from injury then the shirt is his for the next cycle. Wade is his own man but to be fair he is taking the batten from JSD and is the closest I have seen to Billy Wiz.

Strettle must never wear white again. Everyone is hyping May and yes he is a tremendous talent however I believe Watson has the greater rugby brain and though it is a close call would get my selection at this time.
I will remove Bomber from his mortal coil if Goode is selected again - Vaseline Brown deservedly has the shirt. May or Watson can cover fb.

Youngs
Cipriani/Burns
Sharples/Wade
Twelvetrees
Burrell/MT
Watson
Brown

Balls on the table boys!

Firstly if you put lines spaces etc...instead of a block of words people might actually be bothered to read it.

Secondly having done so...most of what you say is utter tosh...so i wish i hadnt.

   happy days

Chjw131 wrote:

thomh wrote:Tom Court to tighthead didn't work brilliantly that one time either.

Out of the squads altogether seems a touch harsh he's not a bad player.

I never said he was a bad player at all. I said that having him as replacement tighthead in the 2012 game at Twickenham was a horrendous positional switch. He's an out and out loosehead and got neatly folded in two that day.

when is england 23 for France going to be named lads?

PSA named his squad yesterday.
since there is no thread yet for the game, am posting it here (but feel free to create one!)

front row (6): Domingo, Forestier, Kayser, Szarzewski, Mas, Slimani
second row (3) : Flanquart, Maestri, Papé
backrow (5!) Burban, Le Roux, Nyanga, Chouly, Picamoles
outhalves (3) Doussain, Machenaud, Tales
centres (3) Bastareaud, Fickou, Fofana
back 3 (3...) Huget, Dulin, Medart

PSA went for experience ousting the young and talented Vahaamahina, Bruni, Buttin, Plisson, Palis and Bonneval.
very heavy on forwards with basically only 2 backs on the bench. only real mystery is who's going to replace Dusautoir (my guess is le roux)

am a bit disapointed although not surprised, wished there were a France 2nd team to play with the saxons and wolfhounds in order to see some of the new faces.

Not the France team I'd have picked

Judging by Lancaster's latest quotes I wouldn't be surprised to see

Marler Hartley Cole
Lawes Launchbury
Wood Vunipola Robshaw
Dickson Farrell
Watson 36 Burrell May Brown

Vunipola Youngs Thomas Attwood Morgan Youngs Goode Eastmond.

Think the pack will be that although Mako could come in. The backs are a complete guess barring Farrell and Brown. (personally would start with ashton as well).

thanks who's the backup 10 then?

Twelvetrees at a guess

I think Goode or 36 will be used as cover. I'll be wrong anyway but just how I can see things going judging by his comments.

36 has played a fair bit at 10 for Glouc this season at the expense of Burns, hasn't he?

It will be:

Goode
Brown
Barritt
36
Ashton/May
Farrell
Dickson

The pack

England Saxons

15 Elliot Daly (London Wasps)
14 Anthony Watson (Bath Rugby)
13 Matt Hopper (Harlequins)
12 Sam Hill (Exeter Chiefs)
11 Charlie Sharples (Gloucester Rugby)
10 Freddie Burns (Gloucester Rugby)
9 Joe Simpson (London Wasps)

1 Alex Waller (Northampton Saints)
2 Jamie George (Saracens)
3 Tom Mercey (Northampton Saints)
4 Charlie Matthews (Harlequins)
5 George Kruis (Saracens)
6 Calum Clark (Northampton Saints, captain)
7 Luke Wallace (Harlequins)
8 Dave Ewers (Exeter Chiefs)

Replacements
16 Dave Ward (Harlequins)
17 Nathan Catt (Bath Rugby)
18 Scott Wilson (Newcastle Falcons)
19 Elliott Stooke (Gloucester Rugby)
20 Sam Dickinson (Northampton Saints)
21 Dave Lewis (Exeter Chiefs)
22 Henry Slade (Exeter Chiefs)
23 Rob Miller (Sale Sharks)

SL taking a look at Watson on wing maybe?

36 would have to be back up kicker unless Goode takes over. Could be fun if they brought Eastmond on at 10

ChequeredJersey wrote:It will be:

Goode
Brown
Barritt
36
Ashton/May
Farrell
Dickson

The pack

  

Now I might be completely imaging this but perhaps SL sees Nowell's future more at fullback and Watson on the wing? As such he's giving Watson more wing experience.

I think this does point to them looking seriously at Watson for a wing spot against France or the 23 shirt.

little_badger wrote:Now I might be completely imaging this but perhaps SL sees Nowell's future more at fullback and Watson on the wing? As such he's giving Watson more wing experience.

I think this does point to them looking seriously at Watson for a wing spot against France or the 23 shirt.

I think Watson is in pole to usurp Asthon on the right wing. Sharples has been moved from 14 to 11 for the Saxons game. If Watson puts in a good performance defensively I can see him starting with May at 11.

Not the France team i'd have selected either and if I were PSA picking 6 forwards on the bench to try and bludgeon England doesn't seem like the way to go. With the pack pretty settled so far, Marler's srumaging having come on and possibly the most powerful bench we've ever selected, with the likes of Mako V, Youngs, Attwood and Morgan to come on, I don't see the bludgeon working.

Chjw131

You're right it is an "interesting" looking selection by PSA if it is indeed his selection.

A 6-2 split is usually to as you say "bludgeon" the opposition forward pack i think.

Correct me if i am wrong but hasnt PSA always been a bit "heavy metal" when it comes to selecting teams and forward packs.

I think he was at Sale. Really went for these collosal packs and sacrificed mobility?

Personally i dont think that will work. It might have done vs our unbalanced pack in the last match of last year's 6N vs Wales but not now. He is too late.

England by 3

I know the centers are causing us English supporters plenty of issues and discussions but for me 9 is another conundrum.

Dickson is the man in possession but was unconvincing during the AI's and his form hasn't been as good at club level since (as a Saints fan thanks England!). He does get the ball away the quickest out of the 4 in the squad I guess but really hasn't convinced at international level.

Youngs for me probably is the best of the bunch when on top form but he hasn't seemed that way for a while now. Wasn't great for the Tigers against Ulster and feel he is a confidence player and doesn't seem that full of it at the moment. Never convinced me when playing with Farrell at 10. In fact it was the same with Wilko during the WC in 2011, he seems more effective with a flat 10 but Farrell plays deeper than that (for England anyway).

Care's style doesn't seem to fit with the current game plan in wanting a Stringer type 9 and not a decision maker. Stuart Barnes said the other day on commentary that he kicks too long. Now SB usually talks grade 'A' bull plop but if it's remotely true then you don't want to be doing that to Picamoles, Huget or Medart. Like Dickson also wonder that maybe he's not as effective at the very top level with improved defenses etc. Also not sure how well he would go with Farrell, he always strikes me as a 9 that a 10 would take a while to get used to playing with.

Wigglesworth looks in decent form at the moment and seems to me to have upped his urgency and speed this season in reflection of the Sarries game plan. However I've read on here that he is only around to train with the squad? Seems strange to me if that is the case. At least he plays with Farrell on a regular basis as with the other 3 has had chances in the past without taking them.

I really do not know who I want at scrum half in Paris for England.

With such indecision on selection behind the pack you have to assume a somewhat conservative game plan and a forward orientated 10 man game to get the win. I think Wrigglesworth might get the nod.

Scratch wrote:With such indecision on selection behind the pack you have to assume a somewhat conservative game plan and a forward orientated 10 man game to get the win. I think Wrigglesworth might get the nod.

I can see your point, agree it could be a way to get the win in this particular game but it's hardly the best tactics for a team who want to be number 1 and beat NZ and SA on a regular basis.

B91212 wrote:

Scratch wrote:With such indecision on selection behind the pack you have to assume a somewhat conservative game plan and a forward orientated 10 man game to get the win. I think Wrigglesworth might get the nod.

I can see your point, agree it could be a way to get the win in this particular game but it's hardly the best tactics for a team who want to be number 1 and beat NZ and SA on a regular basis.

england just can't afford to let this slip, one game at a time for SL and his biggest banana skin is next weekend…stuff it and you watch Scotland come out of their shells!

SL's biggest game of his career to date

when do they announce final team?

IMagine it will be on the Thursday before the game, that's usually the day as Lancaster likes to leave it as late as possible.

Yeah probably, gives us less time to moan about it too

The Telgraph reckon the back line is going to be:

09. Lee Dickson
10. Owen Farrell
11. Jonny May
12. Billy Twelvetrees
13. Luther Burrell
14. Jack Nowell
15. Mike Brown

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/rugbyunion/international/sixnations/10597413/Six-Nations-2014-England-head-coach-Stuart-Lancaster-to-unleash-rookie-back-line-for-France-debut.html

I don't tend to read it, are they usually right?

Yea,they're usually spot on and let's face it...bar Daly not one Saxon back put his hand up.

Saints no 8 Dickenson looked made for this level though.

Does SL releasing Wiggy for the game against The Sharks signify anything about his not including him in the match day squad?

If it was his intention to pick him, would he risk injury for a "friendly" against a Saffer team that do not know the meaning of the word; on the pitch anyway?

GeordieFalcon wrote:Yea,they're usually spot on and let's face it...bar Daly not one Saxon back put his hand up.

Saints no 8 Dickenson looked made for this level though.

I didn't see the Saxons-Wolfhounds match.  Dickinson did all right?  Would really like to know more.........

doctor_grey wrote:

GeordieFalcon wrote:Yea,they're usually spot on and let's face it...bar Daly not one Saxon back put his hand up.

Saints no 8 Dickenson looked made for this level though.

I didn't see the Saxons-Wolfhounds match.  Dickinson did all right?  Would really like to know more.........

I watched the game, in the first half the Saxons just looked like they were trying to hard to ship it wide off every ball, the Irish defence was far far too good for that and England created next to nothing. No one was really putting their hand up in the first 40, though a couple looked busy (George, Kruis). Burns errrr well the less said about him the better I think.   

Second half, Dickinson and Miller came on and really made an impact. Daly switched to 13 and looked good. I also thought Henry Slade looked far more comfortable than Burns. Simpson didn't really have a good game and I was surprised he stayed on so long. The Saxons played a lot better in the last 10 minutes but were ultimately not good enough for a very strong Irish defence who looked very organised.

Dickinson in particular carried well and Miller did a good job at fullback. I'd start him there and put Daly at 13 for the Scotland game.

Burns missed two pretty straight forward kicks, ok the wind was difficult but he should have adapted and punted them low and hard.