England *EPS 2014* and 6N Squad

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EPS

Forwards (17)
David Attwood (Bath Rugby) Dan Cole (Leicester Tigers) Alex Corbisiero (Northampton Saints) Tom Croft (Leicester Tigers) Dylan Hartley (Northampton Saints) Matt Kvesic (Gloucester Rugby) Joe Launchbury (London Wasps) Courtney Lawes (Northampton Saints) Joe Marler (Harlequins) Ben Morgan (Gloucester Rugby) Geoff Parling (Leicester Tigers) Chris Robshaw (Harlequins) Billy Vunipola (Saracens) Mako Vunipola (Saracens) David Wilson (Bath Rugby) Tom Wood (Northampton Saints) Tom Youngs (Leicester Tigers)

Backs (16)
Chris Ashton (Saracens) Brad Barritt (Saracens) Mike Brown (Harlequins) Freddie Burns (Gloucester Rugby) Danny Care (Harlequins) Lee Dickson (Northampton Saints) Owen Farrell (Saracens) George Ford (Bath Rugby) Ben Foden (Northampton Saints) Alex Goode (Saracens) Kyle Eastmond (Bath Rugby) Manusamoa Tuilagi (Leicester Tigers) Billy Twelvetrees (Gloucester Rugby) Christian Wade (London Wasps) Marland Yarde (London Irish) Ben Youngs (Leicester Tigers)


England RBS 6 Nations squad (35)

Forwards (18)
David Attwood (Bath Rugby) Dan Cole (Leicester Tigers) Dylan Hartley (Northampton Saints) Matt Kvesic (Gloucester Rugby) Tom Johnson (Exeter Chiefs) Joe Launchbury (London Wasps) Courtney Lawes (Northampton Saints) Joe Marler (Harlequins) Ben Morgan (Gloucester Rugby) Matt Mullan (London Wasps) Chris Robshaw (Harlequins) Ed Slater (Leicester Tigers) Henry Thomas (Sale Sharks) Billy Vunipola (Saracens) Mako Vunipola (Saracens) Rob Webber (Bath Rugby) Tom Wood (Northampton Saints) Tom Youngs (Leicester Tigers)

Backs (17)
Chris Ashton (Saracens) Brad Barritt (Saracens) Mike Brown (Harlequins) Luther Burrell (Northampton Saints) Danny Care (Harlequins) Lee Dickson (Northampton Saints) Kyle Eastmond (Bath Rugby) Owen Farrell (Saracens) George Ford (Bath Rugby) Alex Goode (Saracens) Jonny May (Gloucester Rugby) Stephen Myler (Northampton Saints) Jack Nowell (Exeter Chiefs) Billy Twelvetrees (Gloucester Rugby) Anthony Watson (Bath Rugby) Richard Wigglesworth (Saracens) Ben Youngs (Leicester Tigers)


England Saxons squad:
Forwards (17): C Clark (Northampton), J Crane (Leicester), P Doran Jones (Harlequins), W Fraser (Saracens), J Haskell (Wasps), T Johnson (Exeter), G Kitchener (Leicester), G Kruis (Saracens), K Myall (Wasps), D Paice (London Irish), G Robson (Harlequins), E Slater (Leicester), H Thomas (Sale), T Waldrom (Leicester), L Wallace (Harlequins), R Webber (Bath), N Wood (Gloucester).

Backs (15): A Allen (Leicester), L Burrell (Northampton), E Daly (Wasps), G Ford (Bath), J Joseph (Bath), J May (Gloucester), U Monye (Harlequins), S Myler (Northampton), J Nowell (Exeter), C Sharples (Gloucester), J Simpson (Wasps), D Strettle (Saracens), M Tait (Leicester), J Tomkins (Saracens), R Wigglesworth (Saracens).

That's alright then.

Who can I moan about now?

Webber?

Garvey still isn't included anywhere either.. those who think that this is a bit personal between Lancaster and Garvey are looking more and more likely to be correct

Especially as Slater, a very similar player to Garvey, is straight in there after showing a similar amount of form.

Where is Phil Vickery?

That is what I'd like to know.

Cumbrian wrote:Where is Phil Vickery?

That is what I'd like to know.

What disappoints me is the lack of "You might not be the first" topics on here.

RE Watson not scoring many tries bath game plan has been conservative lately, remember there was a whole game where eastmond playing @ 12 didn't touch the game once.

Ah, Bath have been getting their backs ready for the England gameplan then. Perfect

Adding Watson and Nowell to the squad means we are one step closer to realising SL's dream of fielding a team entirely consisting of full backs...

Fullbacks, fullbacks....everywhere

May can play fullback too

At least we'll never have a fullback crisis going into a game.

No point in having wings who'll never see the ball anyway

Scrumpy wrote:At least we'll never have a fullback crisis going into a game.

Unless Goode plays...

Welly wrote:RE Watson not scoring many tries bath game plan has been conservative lately, remember there was a whole game where eastmond playing @ 12 didn't touch the game once.

Seriously? That's insane.

Was that with Ford the messiah at 10?

Yep, was the Worcester game a while ago.

http://www.planetrugby.co.uk/story/0,25883,3551_9003615,00.html

That was reputedly a big part in Eastmond's "I'm leaving" hissy for, right?

beshocked wrote:

Welly wrote:RE Watson not scoring many tries bath game plan has been conservative lately, remember there was a whole game where eastmond playing @ 12 didn't touch the game once.

Seriously? That's insane.

As was the conditions!

One of my PE teachers said 'always play the conditions!'

Yes with Ford on the bench he should offer a nice distributing alternative to Farrell. Oh no wait...!

Still at least with all the fullbacks we should be good at fielding returned kicks.


It was very wet in the Worcester game in Fords defence, but still, pretty shocking.

Nice and dry tomorrow, can't wait to be thrilled by one of the top Aviva team's display of running rugby   

munkian wrote:Nice and dry tomorrow, can't wait to be thrilled by one of the top Aviva team's display of running rugby   

It won't be under foot!

It's Ok, 9 man rugby is my absolute fave

It will be home from home for your Newport boys.

Yeah, cos we love a scrum...

Cumbrian wrote:Where is Phil Vickery?

That is what I'd like to know.

Punditting for BT like all the other retired England RWC players, wait till Wilco retires, he will be another

Dayglow
Daws
Kay
Vicks


Guest have included Balshaw, Lewsey.

" fkaS doesn't rate Wood at international level so no surprise to see him pick Slater at 6!"

Bit delayed I know but thought I'd chip in. I do rate Wood but I don't rate the combination of Wood and Robshaw particularly against teams that will bring a big pack to the party I think we need more bulk and in particular an additional big ball carrier. Slater isn't the ideal option but given that our 8s aren't able to last 80 mins you can't really move one to six and Kvesic is in no kind of form. Slater adds a great jumping option so compensates for Wood in that regard and against the bigger scrum of France there's the option to put him behind Mako to help the young loosehead.

Against the likes of Ireland who are more into their breakdown gamesmanship I'd bring back Wood to start and move Slater to their bench.

I'd look at a similar horses for courses approach to the centres with us utilising the brilliance of Eastmond against the iron defence and the awkward Irish. Use Burrell for added bosh against the French with their big runners and the abrasive Scots with Twelvetrees remaining a constant.

And against Wales ?

Should have been against the iron defence of Wales. No point using a battering ram against the Welsh, need guile to penetrate that defence.

Shucks

Do you have any battering rams ? I guess Morgan and Youngs can be explosive. Mako ? Billy ?

Could target Cuthbert I reckon

formerly known as Sam wrote:" fkaS doesn't rate Wood at international level so no surprise to see him pick Slater at 6!"

Bit delayed I know but thought I'd chip in. I do rate Wood but I don't rate the combination of Wood and Robshaw particularly against teams that will bring a big pack to the party I think we need more bulk and in particular an additional big ball carrier. Slater isn't the ideal option but given that our 8s aren't able to last 80 mins you can't really move one to six and Kvesic is in no kind of form. Slater adds a great jumping option so compensates for Wood in that regard and against the bigger scrum of France there's the option to put him behind Mako to help the young loosehead.

Against the likes of Ireland who are more into their breakdown gamesmanship I'd bring back Wood to start and move Slater to their bench.

I'd look at a similar horses for courses approach to the centres with us utilising the brilliance of Eastmond against the iron defence and the awkward Irish. Use Burrell for added bosh against the French with their big runners and the abrasive Scots with Twelvetrees remaining a constant.

Fair response fkaS although for me Robshaw & Wood are our best flankers and along with Billy V or Morgan offer a decent enough combo as long as we have another carrier in the front 5. I would be wary of playing a lock at 6 again at international level, remember Lawes looked good at 6 in the prem and then against France struggled with some of basics. Although I don't agree with all your selections I do like the concept of certain combinations for different opponents.

Slater was a 6 when he joined Tigers but due to his size and and Tigers injury woes at the time he ended up playing lock. He's played 6 and 8 for Tigers and played 6 for a good run of games this season.

He's certainly no slouch:

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=b2fDqyXR5UM

Lawes was made to look out of place because of his lack of agility but Slater and Launchbury don't really have that problem.

Nice to see you agree we need another ball carrier in the pack but who do you drop to accommodate that extra carrier? Lawes or Hartley? Mako is already a big carrier, there's no English tighthead in Cole's league (with no Corbs at loosehead he is even more valuable now) and Launchbury is far too instrumental in attack and defence.

Gd points, I actually think Wood is a decent carrier as a 6, he's certainly no Alberts or SOB, but he is almost never driven backwards.

Billy/Morgan, Marler/Mako, Launchbury and Hartley/Youngs give us 4 good carriers IMO, with Launchbury in particular impressing me with his improvement here, he looks to have bulked up, and I don't think he has played 6 this season which is good.

Add that to Lawes, Robshaw/Wood and Cole's breakdown work and I think we have a good balance.

If we have Slater, Morgan, Youngs and Mako coming off the bench that is also excellent impact

But Phil Vickery?

This 6 nations is make or break for Lancaster

After last years empty vessel, he has to impress prior to NZ or his detractors will get their collective teeth in

Indeed Lancaster's tenure may well be defined by the next match. If England defeat France away post Lions they must feel set to win the tourney. Though we know that historically England always seem to fail to produce after a good start, so that is by no means guaranteed

In fact if they lose Scotland will target them and must feel that if they can keep their heads whil everyone else is losing theirs, that a win is on the cards.

England have not sorted their centre crisis and their is uncertainty in selection from 9-15. Flood is gone so Farrell must now step up. The pack must prove that they are able to carry the game because the back division does not stand up right now.

If Lancaster is successful in the 6 Nations - a hard earned 2nd seems to be the least that is acceptable, then a mess in NZ is tolerable, but if he doesn't do better than that I fear that he will have a horrible bum in 2014.

Scratch wrote:This 6 nations is make or break for Lancaster

After last years empty vessel, he has to impress prior to NZ or his detractors will get their collective teeth in

Indeed Lancaster's tenure may well be defined by the next match. If England defeat France away post Lions they must feel set to win the tourney. Though we know that historically England always seem to fail to produce after a good start, so that is by no means guaranteed

In fact if they lose Scotland will target them and must feel that if they can keep their heads whil everyone else is losing theirs, that a win is on the cards.

England have not sorted their centre crisis and their is uncertainty in selection from 9-15. Flood is gone so Farrell must now step up. The pack must prove that they are able to carry the game because the back division does not stand up right now.

If Lancaster is successful in the 6 Nations - a hard earned 2nd seems to be the least that is acceptable, then a mess in NZ is tolerable, but if he doesn't do better than that I fear that he will have a horrible bum in 2014.

Well I am sure if Lancaster was a truly great coach there would be a couple of 4th places in there...

formerly known as Sam wrote:" fkaS doesn't rate Wood at international level so no surprise to see him pick Slater at 6!"

Bit delayed I know but thought I'd chip in. I do rate Wood but I don't rate the combination of Wood and Robshaw particularly against teams that will bring a big pack to the party I think we need more bulk and in particular an additional big ball carrier. Slater isn't the ideal option but given that our 8s aren't able to last 80 mins you can't really move one to six and Kvesic is in no kind of form. Slater adds a great jumping option so compensates for Wood in that regard and against the bigger scrum of France there's the option to put him behind Mako to help the young loosehead.

Against the likes of Ireland who are more into their breakdown gamesmanship I'd bring back Wood to start and move Slater to their bench.

I'd look at a similar horses for courses approach to the centres with us utilising the brilliance of Eastmond against the iron defence and the awkward Irish. Use Burrell for added bosh against the French with their big runners and the abrasive Scots with Twelvetrees remaining a constant.

I think that's a fair point and for that reason it would've been nice to see Garvey or Fearns at least in the Saxons to see what playing with a physical 6 and 8 would be like for England.

Dave Ewers has played 6 for Exeter but I don't think I can see him there for England. Wood is a truly top player and isn't as under-powered or some people think but as you say his combination with Robshaw who isn't the best carrier either doesn't flood me with confidence against a side like SA.

I think it's harsh on Attwood to bring Slater straight on to the bench and whilst Slater has gone well I think Attwood is the better player in the tight. If we want to have a shift around re: a bigger Blindside what about:

4. D Attwood
5. C Lawes
6. J Launchbury

19. E Slater

i would really really like to see Sheridan and Steffon Armitage get included in the plans for RWC 2015. Especially if there is a chance English clubs dont play in europe next season. Sheridan had an absolute blinder for Toulon today. wouldnt surprise me if he gets MoM.

I think Sheridans time has passed.

LH isn't a problem position with the likes of Corbs, Marler, Mako, Mullen, Waller.

Without being a reactionist todays Clermont game really highlighted the dual facets of full back play.

Mike Brown was tenacious, strong carrying into contact and a rock in defense but he was comfortably dealt with by the Clermont defense and didn't join the line to threaten on attack. All in all did a lot but made no massive impact.

The French 15 on the other hand was a little wakes all round but silky smooth in attack, glided through the first up tacklers and gave us no end of panics.

I'm not saying drop Brown. He's been quality for England and has a lot to offer. But I'd love May or Nowell to have the 23 shirt to hopefully come on and show something different.

Brown has been fantastic but he's essentially a solid option who's slight lack of world class talent is made up for by his general determination and commitment.

He's a fine stop gap but I can see Daly at Wasps eventually ousting him, he's got everything.

Spot on Sgt. Brown is right for England currently but for us to be able to threaten across the park we will need more pace and vision at 15. Daily is a good shout but he's far down the pecking order at the moment for what ever reason.

I think in the summer we'll see May and Tait come in to the team a bit more.

Not sure I'll agree on that, Brown is struggling now that he's marked though, he'll need to find away around that. Like drawing the man and passing to the winger, who will now have space because of the marking!

Hmmm... given Brown has been our best back for some time, replacing him really fills me with excitement. Whilst we're at it why not bring back Hape and Tindall (lets face it, they were better than 12T and Tomkins).

Firstly, someone new will probably get to play on the wing. We can't make too many changes to the starting 15 in one go, and we will definitely change Tomkins as he's out of the squad (Barritt isn't new though if he comes in). We can probably afford to change max 2-3 backs I'd imagine, and 2 are Certs, so I expect we'll see

Brown, Ashton, Burrell, 36, May, Farrell, Dickson

Against France

Just to clarify I wasn't saying drop Brown. I was just pointing out that the game had shown what he needs to work on. Namely attacking space and developing a good step.

Or as CJ say's drawing and passing to the man outside him a little more.

He's still the best 15 around but not the best attacking 15.

ChequeredJersey wrote:Firstly, someone new will probably get to play on the wing. We can't make too many changes to the starting 15 in one go, and we will definitely change Tomkins as he's out of the squad (Barritt isn't new though if he comes in). We can probably afford to change max 2-3 backs I'd imagine, and 2 are Certs, so I expect we'll see

Brown, Ashton, Burrell, 36, May, Farrell, Dickson

Against France

Charlie Sharples looked pretty good yesterday. Is he in the squad for the 6ns?

No Sharples missed two tackles and dropped a pass on his debut so had to be purged from the EPS. It's lucky none of our other wings are known to miss tackles and have dodgy hands...

Couple of articles in the papers today that caught the eye.

First off SL will definitely confirm Robshaw as captain for the 6N's and that seems to now have total approval from the press (how quickly they change!).

Secondly the Indie have an article and interview with A Goode and coaches chatting about changes to the way England attack post AI's. Lots of talk about multiple play makers and scoring more tries and the new in phrase seems to be 'two pronged attack'. With this in mind there's apparently a strong possibility of A Goode starting a few 6N's games to see if he can help impliment this. Post AI's Brown was told he needed to work on his attack in the opposition 22 which doesn't seem to have happened so we'll see where SL goes with that.

Lastly one of the reasons Cips was dropped seems to be down to the new way we're looking to attack and apparently as well as defensive issues he's 'too lateral in attack'. Honestly just sounds like catt hasn't got over the handshake/disrespect thing.

yappysnap wrote:No Sharples missed two tackles and dropped a pass on his debut so had to be purged from the EPS. It's lucky none of our other wings are known to miss tackles and have dodgy hands...

Yes. But of course different rules apply if you play for Saints, Tigers or Saracens.