England Saxons v Irish Wolfhounds - Kingsholm

First topic message reminder :

25th January 2014 - Live on Sky Sports 1 (4:45pm Kick Off)

Saxons XXIII to face Ireland Wolfhounds:

1. A Waller
2. J George
3. T Mercy
4. C Matthews
5. G Kruis
6. C Clarke (c)
7. L Wallace
8. D Ewers
9. J Simpson
10. F Burns
11. C Sharples
12. S Hill
13. M Hopper
14. A Watson
15. E Daly

16. D Ward 17. N Catt 18. S Wilson 19. E Stooke 20. S Dickinson 21. D Lewis 22. H Slade 23. R Miller


Ireland XXIII

15. Felix Jones (Shannon/Munster)
14. Fergus McFadden (Old Belvedere/Leinster)
13. Robbie Henshaw (Buccaneers/Connacht)
12. Darren Cave (Belfast Harlequins/Ulster)
11. Craig Gilroy (Dungannon/Ulster)
10. Ian Madigan (Blackrock College/Leinster)
9. Isaac Boss (Terenure College/Leinster)
1. David Kilcoyne (UL Bohemians/Munster)
2. Rob Herring (Ballynahinch/Ulster)
3. Martin Moore (Lansdowne/Leinster)
4. Iain Henderson (Ballynahinch/Ulster)
5. Dan Tuohy (Ballymena/Ulster)
6. Rhys Ruddock (St. Mary’s College/Leinster) (capt)
7. Tommy O’Donnell (UL Bohemians/Munster)
8. Robin Copeland (Cardiff Blues)

Replacements:

16. Richardt Strauss (Old Wesley/Leinster)
17. Jack McGrath (St. Mary’s College/Leinster)
18. Stephen Archer (Cork Constitution/Munster)
19. Robbie Diack (Malone/Ulster)
20. Jordi Murphy (Lansdowne/Leinster)
21. Kieran Marmion (Corinthians/Connacht)
22. Ian Keatley (Young Munster/Munster)
23. Simon Zebo (Cork Constitution/Munster)

Standulstermen wrote:

pete (buachaill on eirne) wrote:That Irish pack is BIG.

Kilcoyne-known for his carrying
Herring-ok he isn't
Moore-one of the more dynamic tightheads in Ireland
Tuohy-a big carrier
Henderson-a big carrier
Ruddock-a big carrier and tackler
TOD-a big carrier
Copeland-a fairly big carrier

I think this is the strongest Irish wolfhounds pack in many a year

Just a slight correction there Pete but Herring is a damn fine carrier. He isn't so much a tight carrier as he is in the Cronin mould of being very pacy and he has very good hands

It'll be an interesting game up front that's for sure. The Saxons props aren't renowned carriers but Jamie George is good in the tight and loose, likewise Matthews, Kruis, Clark, Wallace and Ewers. There's also some good carriers on the bench in the shape of Catt, Wilson, Stooke and Dickinson. It could be a titanic battle for sure.

I still think the Wolfhounds are slight favourites on paper but at Kingsholm the Saxons have a great shout of winning it if the back-line moves forward well.

Anyone brave enough to put forward a score prediction? Im going for 7-25 to Ireland.

geoff998rugby wrote:Herring is still comparitively young and I think he has  more improvement in him.
He has come a long way since he joined

True, and his inclusion to start this game over Damien Varley and Strauss shows that the coaches probably agree.

To be fair though, Strauss is being managed on his return to the game and is likely to jump up the pecking order as he returns to fitness. Can't believe we haven't mentioned that yet! Just the second game back for Richardt Strauss after heart surgery...

Varley has had injury problems too hasnt he? Herring and Cronin are the only hookers that have had continous game time in the last few months.

Saxons 20-24 Wolfhounds

Notch wrote:Saxons 20-24 Wolfhounds

Saxons 20-15 Wolfhounds - I think we will lose this I'm afraid.

GunsGerms wrote:Anyone brave enough to put forward a score prediction? Im going for 7-25 to Ireland.

Tough call I haven't seen the weather forecast yet.

wolfball wrote:

Notch wrote:Saxons 20-24 Wolfhounds

Saxons 20-15 Wolfhounds - I think we will lose this I'm afraid.

I do not agree with what you have to say, but I'll defend to the death your right to say it.

Saxons 17 - 22 Wolfhounds

wolfball wrote:

Notch wrote:Saxons 20-24 Wolfhounds

Saxons 20-15 Wolfhounds - I think we will lose this I'm afraid.

Could definitely see it going the other way, but I'm being an optimist today

Looks like sun with possibly light rain later. We'll stuff you: England Saxons 20 - 17 Ireland Wolfhounds.

http://www.rugbyworld.com/news/england-saxons-a-glimpse-of-the-future/

Someone picks his Saxons players to watch on rugby world

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FWHqbXZx3o4&feature=youtu.be

IRFU have put up an interview with Tommy O'Donnell and Craig Gilroy- usual press stuff.

It's a far more experienced Wolfhounds starting XV. Only Simpson, Burns and Sharples have played for the seniors, and Simpson's solitary cap was a 10 minute cameo during the last RWC against Georgia.

Despite being called into several England squads, Clarke has yet to be capped.

It will take something special for this Saxons side to beat the Wolfhounds imo.

Hound of Harrow wrote:It's a far more experienced Wolfhounds starting XV. Only Simpson, Burns and Sharples have played for the seniors, and Simpson's solitary cap was a 10 minute cameo during the last RWC against Georgia.

Despite being called into several England squads, Clarke has yet to be capped.

It will take something special for this Saxons side to beat the Wolfhounds imo.

I agree. Saxons have good players but international experience counts for a huge amount in my opinion. Score prediction?

Notch wrote:http://www.rugbyworld.com/news/england-saxons-a-glimpse-of-the-future/

Someone picks his Saxons players to watch on rugby world

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FWHqbXZx3o4&feature=youtu.be

IRFU have put up an interview with Tommy O'Donnell and Craig Gilroy- usual press stuff.

Personally I think the players to watch have in the Saxons have been done much better on here by the likes of chjw131, Bambam and chequeredjersey than the bloke from rugby world.

His ones to watch are 2 warming the bench and one whose woefully out of form. Not exactly awe inspiring.

I thought about that myself beshocked. I also thought about the fact he's making or trying to make a career as a freelance journalist as opposed to our amateur contributions. But, tbh, he's just a fan of rugby and seems like a good bloke so fair play to him for taking the initiative.

GunsGerms wrote:

Hound of Harrow wrote:It's a far more experienced Wolfhounds starting XV. Only Simpson, Burns and Sharples have played for the seniors, and Simpson's solitary cap was a 10 minute cameo during the last RWC against Georgia.

Despite being called into several England squads, Clarke has yet to be capped.

It will take something special for this Saxons side to beat the Wolfhounds imo.

I agree. Saxons have good players but international experience counts for a huge amount in my opinion. Score prediction?

Well, I think the Saxons backline will score tries and Jamie George is lethal from two yards

I'll go for 17-24.

Wolfhounds to win by 27-20

I think the Saxons inexperience will show and with the amount of quality in the Irish backline (and on the bench) it will cost the Saxons, the scoreline could actually be a lot more than 27 but for the Wolfhounds limited time together. Will be an interesting game nonetheless.

Well, both sides have fairly limited time together don't they? Both sides will be keeping things simple.

That Saxons backline is rapid. Not convinced by the tactical kicking skills of Burns or Simpson though. We've seen in previous years that the Wolfhounds adapt better to adverse conditions and I wouldn't be surprised to see the same again.

Saxons to win 10-9. The last two years this game has been deplorable to say the least. I don't mind who wins I'm just hoping for a good game for once!

The wolfhounds have a very strong team but will they gel quick enough? Our pack looks great, a lot of beef up front. I'm really exited about our backrow. Also, I'm glad to see Madigan back working with Schmidt, they trust each other and I think he'll have a big game tomorrow.

Surely Schmidt won't be coaching the Wolfhounds. Keeping an eye on them certainly. Both teams have players who could break through to the seniors next weekend. A good fixture for both teams in that respect

I think it's good for both countries that we're developing (and giving a chance to develop) some potentially good future internationals.

I hope both teams continue this progress.

No, this week Schmidt would be working with the other 20+ players who are not with the Wolfhounds, which is basically going to be the starting XV for Ireland.

Anthony Foley (Assistant Coach/Forwards Coach at Munster) and Neil Doak (Assistant Coach/Backs Coach at Ulster) are looking after the Wolfhounds.

No, Schmidt isn't the coach but he, Foley and Doak all sat down and picked the squad and I'm sure he has imput in how they train and how they will play.

Don't know- to be perfectly honest, he has enough on his plate trying to prepare Ireland's team to play Scotland without having to prepare the A team too. I would say that Foley and Doak would have a large amount of autonomy in this.

Foley said that all three picked the squad, but as far as having some imput in how they train, I'm only guessing, so you could well be right.

The basic techniques and methods used in the England side are filtered down through the RFU coaching courses. Hence there's a lot of emphasis on Rowntree's tower of power methodology which is all about positioning yourself so that you are stable in contact situations and can use all of your power when required etc and then the pendulum defence is now adopted as well. As such the autonomy within the English structure will be down to the individual player coaching and specific match tactics. I'd assume Ireland is similar.

Mickado wrote:

wolfball wrote:

Notch wrote:Saxons 20-24 Wolfhounds

Saxons 20-15 Wolfhounds - I think we will lose this I'm afraid.

I do not agree with what you have to say, but I'll defend to the death your right to say it.

Saxons 17 - 22 Wolfhounds

Funny comment, that.  And not aimed at you Mick, but when people disagree with me I usually encourage them to follow through with their promise.  Instead they usually slink away then come back and disagree some more.  
What do I have to do????????

Just read in the indo that the wolfhounds have had "intense exchanges" against the A-listers in training all week. Delighted to hear this as no player will be taking any thing for granted, there are still places up for grabs in the 23 for the opening round of the 6 nations, so I expect a huge game from Ireland today.

I think that's a key point...both England and Ireland have 6n places for grabs. A good performance from either team and they could well see themselves promoted. That's a big incentive to really play well.

How many of the Saxons might realistically make the England 23 if they play well?

For the wolfhounds the following would all be hopeful of a place in the match day squad.

McFadden
Henshaw
Gilroy
Madigan 
Boss
Moore
Tuohy
Henderson
Zebo 
Strauss (probably would need more game time)

Could be a stormer.

I don't think many of the forwards realistically would be promoted straight away...our pack is looking in pretty good shape well apart from Thomas who im still not conviced on as the back up TH.

But truthfully speaking any of the backs having a blinder could put their hand up for a bench spot maybe even more...and positions like wing etc are there for the taking...

Golden wrote:How many of the Saxons might realistically make the England 23 if they play well?

One. Anthony Watson.

Golden, do you not think Ruddock might have a realistic chance? He covers a lot of positions and he's one of Ireland form players. Is he in direct competition with Henderson for the 23?

Would say Burns as well.

No way given his appalling recent form. He can't even hold the Gloucester shirt. How is he going to get past Ford?

Wing spots are massively up for grabs for Ireland because there are guys that are coming back from injury in the next week or two or guys that haven't had much game time like Zebo, Bowe, McFadden, Gilroy who are down the pecking order but could move up it very quickly. I think the likelihood is that the starting wings for Scotland will be two out of Andrew Trimble, Luke Fitzgerald and David Kearney- none of whom were very involved last year and thats because they've been playing, they're fit and they're in decent form.

Gretgael1 wrote:Golden, do you not think Ruddock might have a realistic chance? He covers a lot of positions and he's one of Ireland form players. Is he in direct competition with Henderson for the 23?

I don't think the fact we've named five back rows in our 23 is an accident.

I dont think Trimble will play against Scotland (or in the 6 nations at all) Notch. Zebo and Gilroy should have enough game time under their belts by then. 

Ye suppose Ruddock has a chance too and O Donnell actually. Such a strong Wolfhound team. Why arent we playing Scotland As as well? Not enough time in the calendar?

DaveM wrote:No way given his appalling recent form. He can't even hold the Gloucester shirt. How is he going to get past Ford?

Because Lancaster has seen him up close a number of times and obviously rated him enough to be involved in several squads. If he returns to form in this match he can push himself ahead again.

I don't know, I think Schmidt is a guy who is will 'pick on form, not reputation' and will need players to prove themselves at provincial level before they get back into the mix internationally.

I think the wingers will be Fitzgerald and D. Kearney but I wouldn't be surprised to see Trimble in the mix.

Not that much pace in a back three of Fitzgerald and the two Kearneys. I think Zebo will start against Scotland, he looks very sharp on his return.

Man that Wolfhounds coach makes drying paint look entertaining!

Excited for the game now, if Sky will just relax from their Ireland love-in for a moment or two!   

Herrings only 23? Thought he was a good bit older.

worst rendition of irelands call in history

That was atrocious

So easy from Boss. Good start

IRB need to start to take a look at the sheet quantity of sub standard pitches rolled out in the nh.

Today is another disgrace.

Bad weather GE. Pitch isnt that bad.

Why are Englands backs so bad?