Glasgow and Edinburgh: Ongoing Banter Thread II

[George Carlin]

First topic message reminder :

A. Edinburgh
 

 
1. Pre-season
 
Fri 30 Aug 2013, 19:45
Edinburgh Rugby 15 - 5 Newcastle Falcons
 
Fri 23 Aug 2013, 19:30
Northampton Saints 24 - 6 Edinburgh Rugby
 
2. 2013/2014 Season - Played
 
Sat 7 Sep, 19:15
Munster Rugby 34 - 23 Edinburgh Rugby
 
Fri 13 Sep, 19:45
Edinburgh Rugby 16 - 13 Newport Gwent Dragons
 
Sat 21 Sep, 18:30
Ospreys 44 - 10 Edinburgh Rugby
 
Fri 27 Sep, 19:45
Edinburgh Rugby 9 - 22 Scarlets

Sun 6 Oct, 14:05
Cardiff Blues 29 - 12 Edinburgh Rugby

Fri 25 Oct, 19:45
Edinburgh Rugby 20 - 13 Benetton Treviso

Fri 1 Nov 19:45
Edinburgh Rugby 25 - 23 Zebre

Fri 22 Nov 19:05
Ulster Rugby 41 - 17 Edinburgh Rugby

Fri 29 Nov 19:45
Edinburgh Rugby 43 - 10 Connacht

Fri 20 Dec 19:35
Edinburgh Rugby 11 - 6 Leinster

Thu 26 Dec 15:05
Edinburgh Rugby 16 - 20 Glasgow Warriors

Wed 1 Jan 18:05
Glasgow Warriors P - P Edinburgh Rugby

3. 2013/2014 Season - Next 3 Games
 
Sun 9 Feb 13:05
Newport Gwent Dragons  v  Edinburgh Rugby

Sat 15 Feb 17:00
Connacht Rugby v Edinburgh Rugby

Sat 22 Feb 14:30
Scarlets v Edinburgh Rugby

B. Glasgow
 

 
1. Pre-season
 
Sat 31 Aug 2013, 15:00
Exeter Chiefs 26 - 29 Glasgow Warriors
 
2. 2013/2014 Season
 
Fri 6 Sep, 19:35
Glasgow Warriors 22 - 15 Cardiff Blues
 
Fri 13 Sep, 19:05
Ulster Rugby 12 - 13 Glasgow Warriors
 
Fri 20 Sep, 19:35
Glasgow Warriors 12 - 6 Leinster Rugby
 
Fri 27 Sep, 19:30
Zebre 17 - 24 Glasgow Warriors
 
Sat 5 Oct, 18:30
Scarlets 12 - 17 Glasgow Warriors

Fri 25 Oct, 19:35
Glasgow Warriors 6 - 13 Munster Rugby

Sat 2 Nov, 17:00
Connacht Rugby 12 - 19 Glasgow Warriors

Fri 22 Nov, 19:35
Glasgow Warriors 8 - 23 Newport Gwent Dragons

Fri 29 Nov, 19:05
Ospreys 16 - 28 Glasgow Warriors

Fri 20 Dec, 19:35
Glasgow Warriors P - P Benetton Treviso

Thu 26 Dec 15:05
Edinburgh Rugby 16 - 20 Glasgow Warriors

Wed 1 Jan 18:05
Glasgow Warriors P - P Edinburgh Rugby

3. 2013/2014 Season - Next 3 Games
 
Sun 9 Feb 14:00
Glasgow Warriors v Connacht Rugby

Sat 15 Feb 18:30
Cardiff Blues v Glasgow Warriors

Sun 23 Feb 14:30
Newport Gwent Dragons   v   Glasgow Warriors
 
Any and all patter about these teams is welcome.
 
Any jingoism, sledging or graceless kicking of anyone whilst they are up or down will see posts deleted.
 
Be gracious and be constructive.

[AsLongAsBut100ofUs]

I'm surprised to see Leonard go, but I can see why the other two are being ditched.

Its the harsh reality of turning Edinburgh truly pro in my opinion and part of the reason we have a bloated squad.

In other news Tomas Francis has signed for ASBO's Chiefs for 2 years.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/rugby-union/26865324

Is he actually SQ?

Don't believe so, nick - Yorkshire lad

[Nematode]

Ashe and McQuillin on the Macphail scholarship

[funnyExiledScot]

I'd have kept Leonard personally, but I'm excited by the idea of Tonks and Jackson seen purely as 10s at Edinburgh next season (particularly Tonks, which makes a lot of sense to me). That's a better outcome than having Leonard, Hunter and Francis, which is where we were not so long ago.

I've still to make up my mind about Bezzy. Doesn't help that he plays 10 one week and 15 the next.

Leonard at Leeds isn't a bad outcome either. I know it's the Championship, but plenty good players have developed in the Championship, and if he's getting regular rugby then he'll keep progressing.

[Majestic83]

from what i am hearing from my contact at Edinburgh, Tonks is going to be viewed purely as a stand off and that Carl B's contract renewal still hasn't been decided. Nick McLenans main positions that he will be used is 15 and 10 and that another stand off will also be on his way, he believes it is going to be Jackson with an announcement soon.

Any other gossip?

Yep he was also telling me that Edinburgh were in for Juan Smith at the start of the season and it was between us and Toulon.
More recently but not sure when Edinburgh were very close to getting Brad Thorn for a season but he chose to stay at the Highlanders.
Hopefully if that is the case Edinburgh might aim high with a couple of summer signings.
A bit of money should be freed up from the budget with Laidlaw and leonard leaving and also the others that are due to follow in the summer exodous.
Would think there will be more leave than arrive as the squad is huge at the moment so needs trimmed but hopefully players that do come in will be good quality!

[George Carlin]

Maj - very difficult to verify those claims, I guess, but I'm very pleased with the ambition it shows, at the very least. Remember that Edinburgh were only a cashflow issue away from siging Larkham at one point.

[VinceWLB]

I would like to see Jackson at Edinburgh as i think he has been hard done by at Glasgow, in my eyes Weir is by no mean a better player.

[MacKnocked-on]

I'd have kept Leonard personally, but I'm excited by the idea of Tonks and Jackson seen purely as 10s at Edinburgh next season (particularly Tonks, which makes a lot of sense to me). That's a better outcome than having Leonard, Hunter and Francis, which is where we were not so long ago.

I've still to make up my mind about Bezzy. Doesn't help that he plays 10 one week and 15 the next.

Leonard at Leeds isn't a bad outcome either. I know it's the Championship, but plenty good players have developed in the Championship, and if he's getting regular rugby then he'll keep progressing.

And then he might end up playing for England having been born there......unlikely I know

[Majestic83]

Maj - very difficult to verify those claims, I guess, but I'm very pleased with the ambition it shows, at the very least. Remember that Edinburgh were only a cashflow issue away from siging Larkham at one point.

Yep it definitely shows ambition if they were going for those calibre players. Apparently what swayed it for Smith going to Toulon was the warm weather would be better for his Achillies and it came down to a family decision for Brad Thorn instead of uprooting for a year abroad.

[funnyExiledScot]

Maj - very difficult to verify those claims, I guess, but I'm very pleased with the ambition it shows, at the very least. Remember that Edinburgh were only a cashflow issue away from siging Larkham at one point.

Yep it definitely shows ambition if they were going for those calibre players. Apparently what swayed it for Smith going to Toulon was the warm weather would be better for his Achillies and it came down to a family decision for Brad Thorn instead of uprooting for a year abroad.

I'm sure there were possibly other factors as well, although I'm not sure Toulon has a tram system......

[RDW]

Toulon or Edinburgh, must have been a tough one!   

As has been said great if we are aiming so high, and I'd have taken 1 Juan Smith's over 5 Leonardis any day.

I'd personally welcome Hines on a 1 year deal with open arms.

[funnyExiledScot]

Well given we've lost VDW for next season we're actually short at lock.

Gilchrist and Atkins will be fine as the first choice pairing, but I haven't seen much to impress from McAlpine so far, and I've neither seen nor heard anything about the Toolis brothers.

Hines for one year (and then a coaching role) isn't daft, although I'd also like to see Frazer MacKenzie return. Good player that.

[George Carlin]

Shame Hines went to Sale.

Am very interested in the rumours about Big Jim looking into buying a house in Edinburgh.

[RDW]

Shame Hines went to Sale.

Am very interested in the rumours about Big Jim looking into buying a house in Edinburgh.

Do tell?

[funnyExiledScot]

 

I know a bloke looking to flog a lovely family 5 bed house in NW Edinburgh......

[RDW]

 

[George Carlin]

Shame Hines went to Sale.

Am very interested in the rumours about Big Jim looking into buying a house in Edinburgh.

Do tell?

It was young CraigS1874 who mentioned this on the 'Transfers 2014/15' thread:

Speaking of Jim hamilton, I never know how these rumors start but people have been saying Jim Hamilton could be moving back to Edinburgh as he is looking at buying a house close by. It would be an interesting signing especially with VDW and Cox leaving and he would add a bit of grunt to the pack but surely he is on a big wage out in France.

[CraigS1874]

 

I know a bloke looking to flog a lovely family 5 bed house in NW Edinburgh......

I also know a certain Mr Cotter who is looking for a house...  

Anyone willing to become homeless for the sake of scottish rugby ?  

If I was an estate agent I would have probably lost my job by now   

[RDW]

Not sure what I would make of Jim Hamilton signing. First of all I can't see it happening, but he very much fits the Solomons mould of being a big physical tough bas**rd I just prefer my locks a bit more athletic and less yellow card prone!

Is he out of contract at Montpellier? Thought he only signed last year?

[AsLongAsBut100ofUs]

Another year to go, but MrsH rumoured to be unhappy in the south of France   

[RDW]

Strange woman.

Well on the plus side Hamilton would be a great mentor for Gilchrist and Atkins, teaching them the dark arts (i.e. how to get yellow carded more often) and improving their lineout work.

[jimbopip]

[quote="RDW_Scotland"]Strange woman.
Be serious, she married Big Jim.

[AsLongAsBut100ofUs]

I'd have kept Leonard personally, but I'm excited by the idea of Tonks and Jackson seen purely as 10s at Edinburgh next season (particularly Tonks, which makes a lot of sense to me). That's a better outcome than having Leonard, Hunter and Francis, which is where we were not so long ago.

I've still to make up my mind about Bezzy. Doesn't help that he plays 10 one week and 15 the next.

Leonard at Leeds isn't a bad outcome either. I know it's the Championship, but plenty good players have developed in the Championship, and if he's getting regular rugby then he'll keep progressing.

Actually, I take back what I said earlier in terms of letting Leonard go - if he's not going to be number 1, then a spell in the championship will do him no harm as long as he is getting regular game time - its not different to the Chiefs loaning out our youngsters to the Pirates or Plymouth to be fair, and those guys come back battle-hardened with valuable minutes on the pitch under their belt

[RDW]

Saying he needs more gametime doesn't quite fly after the season he's had, given that he's started the majority of games this year and has had much more games in a season than he has ever had before.

He's obviously looking to next season and seeing that he's not going to get much gametime.

Around December/January time he had played 80 minutes 10 games in a row or something due to injuries!

[AsLongAsBut100ofUs]

Saying he needs more gametime doesn't quite fly after the season he's had, given that he's started the majority of games this year and has had much more games in a season than he has ever had before.  

He's obviously looking to next season and seeing that he's not going to get much gametime.

Around December/January time he had played 80 minutes 10 games in a row or something due to injuries!

Hmm, exactly - think that's what I said or at least implied - he can see that Tonks is likely to be first choice, and may have been told as much

[funnyExiledScot]

I'm very pleased that Tonks is going be given a run at 10 though. He has a great skillset for the position, and is a very dangerous broken field runner.

[jimbopip]

Forgive me if I'm going off on a tangent lads...
Sitting here in sunny Essex, choking on a heady cocktail of Sahara sand, Parisian exhaust fumes and the delightful eau de Canvey I have just discovered that the City of Glasgow plans to blow up the Red Road flats as part of the opening ceremony for the Commonwealth bun fight. Surely this gives a whole new meaning to self-loathing? What shall they do for the closing ceremony?
I imagine a massed rally in Georges Square where around a bonfire made of Orange sashes and Irish tricolours Malky shall embrace Shug and each will pour Hydrochloric acid diluted with Lanliq on the others' King Billy/ John Paul II tattoo with the benediction, "It's fur yer ain good,pal". Meanwhile a children's choir shall sing, "And brothers all the world shall be a bam's a bam for a' that".

p.s. Well done the MFL for toughing it out at the end there last night. You looked just like a rugby team.

[cakeordeath]

Forgive me if I'm going off on a tangent lads...
Sitting here in sunny Essex, choking on a heady cocktail of Sahara sand, Parisian exhaust fumes and the delightful eau de Canvey I have just discovered that the City of Glasgow plans to blow up the Red Road flats as part of the opening ceremony for the Commonwealth bun fight. Surely this gives a whole new meaning to self-loathing? What shall they do for the closing ceremony?
I imagine a massed rally in Georges Square where around a bonfire made of Orange sashes and Irish tricolours Malky shall embrace Shug and each will pour Hydrochloric acid diluted with Lanliq on the others' King Billy/ John Paul II  tattoo with the benediction, "It's fur yer ain good,pal". Meanwhile a children's choir shall sing, "And brothers all the world shall be a bam's a bam for a' that".

p.s. Well done the MFL for toughing it out at the end there last night. You looked just like a rugby team.

I am all for this, only if the mascot (is it called Clyde) knocks them down Godzilla style.

[GLove39]

Maybe the organisers could arrange to have a Clyde V Clyde (coo) mascot fight, make it like Godzilla V King Kong.

[Tattie Scones RRN]

Some interesting news I found out the other week but forgot..

New Team Manager for Glasgow is Graeme Beveridge.


Not C21st.

[21st Century Schizoid Man]

They offered me a run as Clyde the Coo but I think UiG took it artistically as far as it (he) could go.

Anyway back where we should be in the top 4   

[RDW]

I think Alan Massie is one of the best rugby journalists in Scotland, but the past couple of weeks he's just come across as a grumpy old man. He's just trotting out well worn topics without really offering anything new on it, and is well off the mark in some instances.

EDINBURGH gained a much-needed and, in the end, commendable win against the Dragons at Rodney Parade.

That said, it was a pretty poor match. In the first half especially, both teams seemed to prefer that their opponents should have the ball, although the Dragons’ kicking from hand was marginally less awful than Edinburgh’s.

Grayson Hart’s obsession with the box-kick might have been excusable if he had kicked well, but he didn’t. I don’t think Edinburgh had a single three-quarter movement in the first half, certainly not one that saw the ball reach the wings.

Conditions were poor, but the Dragons showed that the ball could be moved wide and, once at least, came very close to scoring, being checked only by a fine piece of defensive work from young Sam Hidalgo-Clyne.

The scrum-half did enough to justify Alan Solomons’ decision to play him on the wing. It was just a pity he didn’t see more of the ball.

Edinburgh did score two good tries, one created, the other scored, by Matt Scott. His eye for space and running ability made Edinburgh’s reluctance to move the ball wide even less comprehensible.

One reason for their failure to do so was their preference for attempting a driving maul from the lineout rather than moving the ball quickly away from the set piece. Few of the mauls were effective. Conversely, however, David Denton twice got himself into a position which enabled him – legally – to disrupt the Dragons’ mauling.

This Edinburgh team is evidently at a crossroads. Some good things have been done.

There has been, generally, a marked improvement in their defence. But all the comings and goings must be disruptive. The latest to depart is the stand-off Harry Leonard, off to Leeds Carnegie in the English championship. One assumes that there is a ready-made replacement lined up, and hopes this will be either Ruaridh Jackson or Tom Heathcote and not yet another Southern Hemisphere import. That would make Leonard’s departure deplorable, just when he is coming to maturity.

The door out of Edinburgh seems to be revolving fast, and most of those leaving are Scots. Greig Laidlaw and Geoff Cross are heading for the Aviva Premiership. Ross Rennie, Stuart McInally and Lee Jones are all now out on loan, and seem unlikely to be called back. None of the imports, not even Cornel du Preez, seems markedly better, if better at all, than the Scots whose places they have taken. Solomons has consistently preferred Willem Nel to Cross at tighthead. Nel is qualifying for Scotland by residence, and some seem to assume he will walk straight into the Scotland side.

He does a lot of good things, but on Thursday he collapsed like a sack of potatoes in scrum after scrum. He was penalised at least three times. No doubt the Dragons’ loosehead was a sinner too. A less indulgent referee would surely have given both ten minutes in the bin.

Edinburgh have two young and more than promising home-reared scrum-halves in Hidalgo-Clyne and Sean Kennedy, but both are apparently behind Hart in the pecking-order. Hart is of course Scottish-qualified and has indeed already played for our A team, but he is not discernibly better than the other two.

Kennedy has been given ten minutes at the end of the last two matches, which is fairly futile.

Alan Solomons will be judged on results next season, and this is fair enough. But he won’t be judged only on results. He will, quite rightly, be judged also on his success in developing native talent. Achieving a respectable position in the top six of the league, or, even better, in the top four, and meeting with success in the second tier of the new European cup competitions, would all be welcome. Yet if this is done with a side half of whose members are foreigners, its value for the future of Scottish rugby would be questionable.

So it will be interesting to see who is added to the squad this summer to replace the Scottish internationalists who have departed or will not be recalled from the clubs where they are at present on loan.

Meanwhile, we have the Heineken quarter-finals to delight us this weekend, even though, yet again, without either of our clubs involved.

Leicester go to the Stade Marcel Michelin where the new Scotland coach Vern Cotter’s Clermont-Auvergne haven’t been beaten since 2009. They are on a remarkable 74-game winning run. No doubt it will end sometime, but one rather hopes not in the last weeks of Cotter’s reign. If he can make Murrayfield the same impregnable fortress, he will be worth whatever the SRU is paying him. Our three home Six Nations matches next year against Ireland, Italy and Wales are all winnable, and that must be the aim, for chances of victory at Twickenham and the Stade de France are slim. Indeed, given the strength of Stuart Lancaster’s young England team, those of us who were already middle-aged when Scotland last claimed victory at Twickenham in 1983 are wondering if we will live long enough to taste victory there again.

With regards to all the kicking against the Dragons, the conditions did look very poor and given that Hart doens't kick so much normally it was obviously a tactic from the coaches.

Where I think he is well of the mark though is claiming that Du Preez hasn't added any more that a Scottish player in the squad could have. I think the last Scottish born player that brought the same level of physicality and power as the likes of Du Preez and Strauss was Jason White, and he never even played for Edinburgh!

Who are these Scottish born players in the squad that would do a better job than them?

Likewise Grayson Hart - yes we have two good Scottish scrum halfs in reserve but he has definitely warranted the starting spot. His performances have been good and he also looks to be a real positive influence on the squad and the greater community. An example being him approaching a children's autism charity and offering them to auction 4 tickets to the Ulster game and dinner with himself and David Denton - they raised £525 for the charity!

The jury is perhaps still out with Nel, but looking at the quality of props the likes of the Blues and Dragons have to make do with he has definitely been an asset for Edinburgh. Whether he should have given so much game time over Cross is a different matter, and he does have his wobbles in the scrum, but he is still relatively young and always puts a massive shift in the loose.

So Mr Massie - stop being a broken record and start coming up with some insightful journalism that you are known for!

[funnyExiledScot]

Agree, his comment about Du Preez is utterly ridiculous. He's the best back rower we've had since Simon Taylor.

Whilst the exodus of Scots is concerning, and in the case of Cross and Rennie somewhat baffling, I'm willing to have a bit of faith. As Massie correctly points out, good things have been done, particularly in defence (the priority from the outset), and we still have a strong group of SQ players at the club.

[BigGee]

I still think the main reason Rennie moved is that he wanted to and you can't blame him for that, he just did not seem to have much luck at Edinburgh.

Cross I am sure would have stayed, but I don't think a move will do him any harm either. He is at the age where it was now or never. He is a good player who has the ability to prove himself in the AP but like it or not he was a part of the malaise at Edinburgh over the past few years. I can see why a coach feels the need to move some of the older players on and bring in new faces. Remember there are new younger TH's to come through, McQuillan and Dell certainly seem promising.

I thought it was a pretty poor article as well!

[VinceWLB]

Where I think he is well of the mark though is claiming that Du Preez hasn't added any more that a Scottish player in the squad could have.  I think the last Scottish born player that brought the same level of physicality and power as the likes of Du Preez and Strauss was Jason White, and he never even played for Edinburgh!

At Edinburgh could it be the unlucky David Callam? looked powerfull to me. At Glasgow i reckon Beattie when he was in his best form was a hell of a player.

[justified sinner]

NDL off to Biarritz

http://sport24.lefigaro.fr/rugby/top-14/fil-info/nick-de-luca-a-biarritz-688375

[GLove39]

NDL off to Biarritz

So he'll be playing in proD2 next season then.

[justified sinner]

Eh, they're 7th with a realistic chance of pipping RM92 to 6th

[BigGee]

NDL off to Biarritz

http://sport24.lefigaro.fr/rugby/top-14/fil-info/nick-de-luca-a-biarritz-688375

Good move for De Luca, a chance to rediscover himself down there playing in the sunshine. Not currently one of the strongest French sides but lots of history and great support down there, a real rugby hotbed.

[GLove39]

Really? I thought they were for the chop?

[GLove39]

Biarritz are bottom of the top14...

13. Oyonnax 22 10 0 12 382 490 -108 4 44
14. Biarritz 23 4 1 18 328 552 -224 8 26

[justified sinner]

Biarritz are bottom of the top14...

13. Oyonnax 22 10 0 12 382 490 -108 4 44
14. Biarritz 23 4 1 18 328 552 -224 8 26

Sorry my bad, picked up last year's table somehow.

[George Carlin]

Just saw the Munster-Toulouse scoreline.

If Glasgow makes the playoffs, I genuinely think that we'd be more likely to beat Leinster at the RDS than Munster at Thomond.

[RDW]

Biarritz are a big club in freefall - interesting choice from de Luca.

Will playing in the 2nd division effectively end his Scotland career?

[123456789]

Biarritz are a big club in freefall - interesting choice from de Luca.

Will playing in the 2nd division effectively end his Scotland career?

I think the rise of Bennett, Dunbar, Russell, Scott and Taylor may have done that

[RDW]

True, but this has nailed it in a coffin!

[BigGee]

Just saw the Munster-Toulouse scoreline.

If Glasgow makes the playoffs, I genuinely think that we'd be more likely to beat Leinster at the RDS than Munster at Thomond.

Toulouse threw in the towel well before the end. It was a bit of the old case of French sides not travelling well!

I'd be very happy if all of Munster, Leinster and Ulster go through. It could play to our advantage if their eyes are on bigger prizes. It has always been very hard to play on 2 fronts, even for these giants of the game. I guess we will see how focused Munster are next weekend

[123456789]

I think we can take on and beat whoever we get, we seem to be hitting form all of our best players are on form or on their way back from injury, Stuart Hogg was on form and has now had a "break", I'm very confident; this could be our year.

[RDW]

Pretty sure Ulster are going to show Scotland how you're meant to play when your fullback gets sent off - I'm sure they won't ship 50 points!

[123456789]

To be fair they're playing Ashton and Strettle not North and Cuthbert, very different situation

[123456789]

Also Scotland had to chase the game with 14 men, so had to play open rugby and were away from home whereas Ulster were even and have their crowd behind them.

Having said that Scotland were pathetic but they are pretty different situations

[Sponsored content]