Glasgow and Edinburgh: Ongoing Banter Thread II

[George Carlin]

First topic message reminder :

A. Edinburgh
 

 
1. Pre-season
 
Fri 30 Aug 2013, 19:45
Edinburgh Rugby 15 - 5 Newcastle Falcons
 
Fri 23 Aug 2013, 19:30
Northampton Saints 24 - 6 Edinburgh Rugby
 
2. 2013/2014 Season - Played
 
Sat 7 Sep, 19:15
Munster Rugby 34 - 23 Edinburgh Rugby
 
Fri 13 Sep, 19:45
Edinburgh Rugby 16 - 13 Newport Gwent Dragons
 
Sat 21 Sep, 18:30
Ospreys 44 - 10 Edinburgh Rugby
 
Fri 27 Sep, 19:45
Edinburgh Rugby 9 - 22 Scarlets

Sun 6 Oct, 14:05
Cardiff Blues 29 - 12 Edinburgh Rugby

Fri 25 Oct, 19:45
Edinburgh Rugby 20 - 13 Benetton Treviso

Fri 1 Nov 19:45
Edinburgh Rugby 25 - 23 Zebre

Fri 22 Nov 19:05
Ulster Rugby 41 - 17 Edinburgh Rugby

Fri 29 Nov 19:45
Edinburgh Rugby 43 - 10 Connacht

Fri 20 Dec 19:35
Edinburgh Rugby 11 - 6 Leinster

Thu 26 Dec 15:05
Edinburgh Rugby 16 - 20 Glasgow Warriors

Wed 1 Jan 18:05
Glasgow Warriors P - P Edinburgh Rugby

3. 2013/2014 Season - Next 3 Games
 
Sun 9 Feb 13:05
Newport Gwent Dragons  v  Edinburgh Rugby

Sat 15 Feb 17:00
Connacht Rugby v Edinburgh Rugby

Sat 22 Feb 14:30
Scarlets v Edinburgh Rugby

B. Glasgow
 

 
1. Pre-season
 
Sat 31 Aug 2013, 15:00
Exeter Chiefs 26 - 29 Glasgow Warriors
 
2. 2013/2014 Season
 
Fri 6 Sep, 19:35
Glasgow Warriors 22 - 15 Cardiff Blues
 
Fri 13 Sep, 19:05
Ulster Rugby 12 - 13 Glasgow Warriors
 
Fri 20 Sep, 19:35
Glasgow Warriors 12 - 6 Leinster Rugby
 
Fri 27 Sep, 19:30
Zebre 17 - 24 Glasgow Warriors
 
Sat 5 Oct, 18:30
Scarlets 12 - 17 Glasgow Warriors

Fri 25 Oct, 19:35
Glasgow Warriors 6 - 13 Munster Rugby

Sat 2 Nov, 17:00
Connacht Rugby 12 - 19 Glasgow Warriors

Fri 22 Nov, 19:35
Glasgow Warriors 8 - 23 Newport Gwent Dragons

Fri 29 Nov, 19:05
Ospreys 16 - 28 Glasgow Warriors

Fri 20 Dec, 19:35
Glasgow Warriors P - P Benetton Treviso

Thu 26 Dec 15:05
Edinburgh Rugby 16 - 20 Glasgow Warriors

Wed 1 Jan 18:05
Glasgow Warriors P - P Edinburgh Rugby

3. 2013/2014 Season - Next 3 Games
 
Sun 9 Feb 14:00
Glasgow Warriors v Connacht Rugby

Sat 15 Feb 18:30
Cardiff Blues v Glasgow Warriors

Sun 23 Feb 14:30
Newport Gwent Dragons   v   Glasgow Warriors
 
Any and all patter about these teams is welcome.
 
Any jingoism, sledging or graceless kicking of anyone whilst they are up or down will see posts deleted.
 
Be gracious and be constructive.

[George Carlin]

Get the sense that there will be a couple more imports to each Scottish team.

Cannot believe that they won't at least try to get Heathcote to Edinburgh.

Fairly mad not to.

[123456789]

I'm really looking forward to seeing a Glasgow-Edinburgh game on relatively hard turf and hopefully in good weather rather than the low scoring and low skilled forward battles we are usually subjected to.

[IanBru]

Definitely, Numbers.

I really hope the ERC and Glasgow have this on during the daytime, on a bright and sunny Saturday afternoon, so we can make a real occasion of it.

[Nematode]

Would anyone agree with Scrum V Sunday's questionable assessment that the Ospreys were definitely the better side vs Glasgow? Martyn Williams said they had 2 or 3 clear chances [Ospreys] and either deserved/should have won it.

Think they are a bit presumptuous to be honest. Glasgow's defence was decent and managed to stop the Ospreys scoring, meanwhile Glasgow had 3 opportunities, 1 taken. I would certainly not say Glasgow were by far the better side - it was extremely close - but I would say they were marginally better than the Ospreys.

Sour grapes from Wales at no top 4 teams in Rabo probably and a poor 6N?

[George Carlin]

Nematode - I will doubtless receive brickbats for saying this, but by and large (not all the time) the Scrum V pundits are the most cycloptic around and I wouldn't even hope for impartiality. No team ever beats any Welsh franchise, particularly the Ospreys - either the Ospreys didn't play well, were carrying life threatening injuries or the referee was blatantly on the payroll of the opposition. They also seem to work on the basis of the fantastically limited analysis that if the Scottish national team is tanking then Welsh franchises should automatically beat Scottish ones, although history has shown that to be consistently not the case.

The Ospreys lost that game because they never managed to turn their sustained periods of pressure into points. It will doubtless have escaped their analysis that the difference between teams that do that and those that don't is the difference between 4th place and 5th.

The only thing I can compare it to is the legendary Mr George Hook on RTE who spends the entire time sledging any team who would dare to take points from his beloved Munster and Leinster.

[AsLongAsBut100ofUs]

What GC said

[tigertattie]

So we are saying the Welsh pundits are a bit like Glasgow fans?  

[Majestic83]

I was reading this morning that the ex Edinburgh prop dave young has signed for the dragons for the next 2 years.
Always thought he looked pretty solid when he was at Edinburgh but just didn't get enough game time. Was certainly better than the guy who replaced him, Jack Gilding!
Young is 29 now and been playing in Italy the last couple years but has been one of the stand out props apparently!

[RDW]

Sean Cox confirmed to be leaving Edinburgh for London Irish.

[RDW]

Solomons has now shown that he'd rather pick a scrum half on the wing than a talented young prospect like Farndale or Hoyland

https://www.606v2.com/t52988-dragons-v-edinburgh#2596367

[tigertattie]

Now, don't laugh at me here!

but

I'd rather Edinburgh took Jones back from Glasgow and played him on the wing over Sam H-C

seriously!!!

Although I'd actually put Farndale out there to see what he can do!

Bit of a bonkers decision by grand-pappy

[BigGee]

Farndale has not looked the same player since he broke his leg unfortunately and it still remains to be seen if he can step it up to this level.

Hoyland undoubtedly has potential, maybe more than Farndale, but again has not played any Professional rugby, so to throw him into a must win game would be a bit of a gamble. Let him finish the year in the U20's and then start work on the conditioning he is going to need to play professionally.

Qualification is still a possibility remember, so it is still not the time to just chuck players in willy nilly.

I think you are being a bit harsh on S H-C as well, who is a utility player who has played plenty in the back three. Having just watched the Treviso game he actually looked pretty lively when he came on and I imagine that is why he is starting. He is still a young prospect as well, but is a lot further down the journey than Farndale or Hoyland and is closer to being the finished article. I have the feeling that he will be the Scotland SH of the future, much more so than Kennedy will be.

[VinceWLB]

Solomons has now shown that he'd rather pick a scrum half on the wing than a talented young prospect like Farndale or Hoyland

https://www.606v2.com/t52988-dragons-v-edinburgh#2596367

Baffling, what's up with these coaches playing scrumhalves on the wing?

Slightly sad to see Cox go, i thought he was instrumental to the 2012 HEC campeign.
Hope Perry Parker go as well as i think he is a poor player.

[EWT Spoons]

Sean Cox confirmed to be leaving Edinburgh for London Irish.

have they not also just taken Cross from us as well?

[RDW]

Yes

[funnyExiledScot]

I think LI will be pleased with both Cross and Cox. Good players both.

[BigGee]

Good to see Cox get another contract, he will be a good squad player for LI as he has been for Edinburgh. A good solid professional even if he did not quite have enough to cut it at the highest levels.

[Nematode]

Edinburgh's like an overgrown, abandoned bush needing pruning and maybe a bit of fertiliser to get it back into pristine condition. We need to get rid of the guff first to get some money together and get some youngsters or some more SAs.

I like how Solomons is going about it with recent Scottish youngsters being signed and I hope he maybe cuts these players over the Summer:

Atiga
Walker
Francis
Leck
Basilia
Parker
Toolis
Toolis

Then sign...
Heathcote
Steve MacColl
John Hardie

^^ Surely we could, with the trimmings, get a good package for these two? Also, Hardie might allow Rennie to move to the Premiership/Bristol?

[RDW]

Edinburgh's like an overgrown, abandoned bush needing pruning and maybe a bit of fertiliser to get it back into pristine condition. We need to get rid of the guff first to get some money together and get some youngsters or some more SAs.

I like how Solomons is going about it with recent Scottish youngsters being signed and I hope he maybe cuts these players over the Summer:

Atiga
Walker
Francis
Leck
Basilia
Parker
Toolis
Toolis

Then sign...
Heathcote
Steve MacColl
John Hardie

^^ Surely we could, with the trimmings, get a good package for these two? Also, Hardie might allow Rennie to move to the Premiership/Bristol?

I made a list of the potential dead wood earlier in the thread

Francis
PJP
Cox
McAlpine (maybe)
VDV
Basalaia
Leck
Black
Walker
Atiga

The Toolis brothers are big young SQ second rows - they ain't going nowhere!

[Majestic83]

Just been reading a bit on an australian rugby league website about James McManus who is a winger for Newcastle Knights and NSW. Finished last season as joint top try scorer and was going to play for Scotland in the league world cup until he damaged his ankle.
He is from Banff and was raised there until he was about 8 before moving to oz. In the article I was reading he was saying how he considers himself Scottish still and loves visiting his homeland.
Instead of signing some of the journeymen players Edinburgh have signed over the last 2/3 years we should be looking at players of this quality.
The wages in league aren't massive unless it is someone of SBW or Greg Inglis stature so i am sure a decent offer would attract a player like McManus.

[RDW]

Straight onto Youtube

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vi7AUU4ahHU

Hard to tell much from that since he's just finishing off a move in a lot of the clips, but he looks a decent finisher.

He's 28, so if we're to sign him it should be now!

[BigGee]

Straight onto Youtube

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vi7AUU4ahHU

Hard to tell much from that since he's just finishing off a move in a lot of the clips, but he looks a decent finisher.

He's 28, so if we're to sign him it should be now!

To old to make the change, if you are going to get them from league then they need to be young. Farrell Snr did not really cut it and even Benji Marshall signed with a big fanfare supposedly to play for NZ in the next world cup looks like he is heading back to league on the quiet!

[RDW]

Plus as a winger he's only really got a couple of years left at his prime.

[Majestic83]

Straight onto Youtube

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vi7AUU4ahHU

Hard to tell much from that since he's just finishing off a move in a lot of the clips, but he looks a decent finisher.

He's 28, so if we're to sign him it should be now!

To old to make the change, if you are going to get them from league then they need to be young. Farrell Snr did not really cut it and even Benji Marshall signed with a big fanfare supposedly to play for NZ in the next world cup looks like he is heading back to league on the quiet!

I think playing on the wing is a much smoother transition for him to make the switch than what Marshall is trying to do which is play at fly half which is a far more technical position.
Remember Jason Robinson wasn't much younger than what McManus is just now when he made the switch, think he was 27.
Think it is probably a long shot to get McManus but my point is that instead of signing some of these journeyman from South Africa and wherever there are players of very high quality who are Scottish born or with Scottish parents playing NRL or super rugby. Sean Lineen has brought over Sean Maitland but most people knew about his Scottish roots. He hasn't really unearthed too many other quality players so far and think the scouting job could and should be done a lot better.

The other obvious league player Scotland should be getting on board now is Matty Russell, only 22 and is a fantastic player already. At Warrington and won't be on decent money.

[Tattie Scones RRN]

Straight onto Youtube

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vi7AUU4ahHU

Hard to tell much from that since he's just finishing off a move in a lot of the clips, but he looks a decent finisher.

He's 28, so if we're to sign him it should be now!

To old to make the change, if you are going to get them from league then they need to be young. Farrell Snr did not really cut it and even Benji Marshall signed with a big fanfare supposedly to play for NZ in the next world cup looks like he is heading back to league on the quiet!

I think playing on the wing is a much smoother transition for him to make the switch than what Marshall is trying to do which is play at fly half which is a far more technical position.
Remember Jason Robinson wasn't much younger than what McManus is just now when he made the switch, think he was 27.
Think it is probably a long shot to get McManus but my point is that instead of signing some of these journeyman from South Africa and wherever there are players of very high quality who are Scottish born or with Scottish parents playing NRL or super rugby. Sean Lineen has brought over Sean Maitland but most people knew about his Scottish roots. He hasn't really unearthed too many other quality players so far and think the scouting job could and should be done a lot better.

The other obvious league player Scotland should be getting on board now is Matty Russell, only 22 and is a fantastic player already. At Warrington and won't be on decent money.

He scored at the weekend too.

[funnyExiledScot]

Straight onto Youtube

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vi7AUU4ahHU

Hard to tell much from that since he's just finishing off a move in a lot of the clips, but he looks a decent finisher.

He's 28, so if we're to sign him it should be now!

I love the optimism, but that just wouldn't be the "Edinburgh" thing to do. Far better to wait until he loses all his pace, can't see properly and wets himself involuntarily three times a day before signing him, and only then make sure it's an unbreakable 5 year deal.

[AsLongAsBut100ofUs]

Straight onto Youtube

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vi7AUU4ahHU

Hard to tell much from that since he's just finishing off a move in a lot of the clips, but he looks a decent finisher.

He's 28, so if we're to sign him it should be now!

I love the optimism, but that just wouldn't be the "Edinburgh" thing to do. Far better to wait until he loses all his pace, can't see properly and wets himself involuntarily three times a day before signing him, and only then make sure it's an unbreakable 5 year deal.

There's hope for me yet then?

[funnyExiledScot]

 

After your canoeing exploits you'll be well ahead of much of the Edinburgh squad in the fitness stakes. You'd never fit Ben Atiga in a canoe!

[tigertattie]

Straight onto Youtube

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vi7AUU4ahHU

Hard to tell much from that since he's just finishing off a move in a lot of the clips, but he looks a decent finisher.

He's 28, so if we're to sign him it should be now!

I love the optimism, but that just wouldn't be the "Edinburgh" thing to do. Far better to wait until he loses all his pace, can't see properly and wets himself involuntarily three times a day before signing him, and only then make sure it's an unbreakable 5 year deal.

There's hope for me yet then?

Alas no Mr ASBO.  The mandate clearly states that the player is to wet himself three times a day. Not keek his breechs three times a day!

[AsLongAsBut100ofUs]

Straight onto Youtube

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vi7AUU4ahHU

Hard to tell much from that since he's just finishing off a move in a lot of the clips, but he looks a decent finisher.

He's 28, so if we're to sign him it should be now!

I love the optimism, but that just wouldn't be the "Edinburgh" thing to do. Far better to wait until he loses all his pace, can't see properly and wets himself involuntarily three times a day before signing him, and only then make sure it's an unbreakable 5 year deal.

There's hope for me yet then?

Alas no Mr ASBO.  The mandate clearly states that the player is to wet himself three times a day. Not keek his breechs three times a day!

Tis difficult to tell them apart sometimes on ma bucky diet

[EWT Spoons]

According to the official site, Francis, Hunter & Leonard are all leaving Edinburgh.

Does leave us a bit short at 10, wonder in that means Tonks and Bezy are going to be our stand offs next season or if we're going to be signing someone. Think it probably needs to be the latter.

[RDW]

 

Leonard is a bit of a shock.

Not great PR again for Edinburgh - won't go down well if they replace two young Scottish 10s with 2 nsq journeyman 10s

[George Carlin]

Really does suggest tha Edinburgh are bringing in a new SQ 10. I'll change the record shortly but that would have to be someone like Heathcote or Jackson (whose new club has not yet been announced).

Harsh on Leonard, as he was progressing fine for a youngfeller.

[RDW]

Also why announce it on the day Leonard is starting a game at 10?

He's going to be getting lots of messages on social media all day, which can't help his concentration tonight.

[RDW]

Just seen that Leonard is moving to Leeds Carnegie in the championship.

It's good he's got another team, but can't see them getting promoted any time soon so he's probably going to be a championship player for a while.

[AsLongAsBut100ofUs]

I really don't understand the Leonard move - is he being ruled out at the grand old age of 21?

[RDW]

That's the thing ASBO - yes Leonard and Hunter are no Dan Carter, but they have at least proved to be competent at Rabo level and given the lack of talent at 10 in Scotland it is quite early to ditch them.

Rumours are that Leonard signed a fairly lucrative contract two years ago, so Solomons is maybe thinking he isn't worth the money to be a 3rd or 4th choice 10.

Given that Bezzy is only on a trial for this season (which I'm sure will be turned into a long term contract), this only leaves us with Tonks, who is a converted 15 who only has 7 games at standoff for us.

This has got to mean that a new 10 or two are coming in, and I really hope they are buying Heathcoat out of his final year of his contract.

Even if Heathcoat does come we could do with a young Scottish 10 to be 4th choice, providing cover should we get injuries.  Not quite sure who that could be?

The ideal situation would be:

Heathcoat and Tonks fighting it out for a starting spot
Bezzy providing squad cover and a secure option during the International windows
A young SQ 10 to get the odd game.

If we aren't signing Heathcoat, and the likes of Robbie Robinson prove to not be a viable option, then I really don't have a clue who they might sign.

Also worth remembering we've signed a 'half back' in Nick McLennan - a New Zealander with absolutely no rugby pedigree to speak of whatsoever.   

[AsLongAsBut100ofUs]

Heathcote isn't really that much more proven than Leonard - he's spent most of this season as 2nd/3rd choice at Barf behind Ford and the Orange One. Admittedly he did show a fair amount of potential the previous season, filling in for Donald Duck when he was injured, but at bet that makes him proven AP calibre, nothing more - what's the difference to Leonard being proven Rabo calibre? I have to say that altho Scotland may not be basking in riches of standoffs, our treatment of the younger ones coming thru is pretty poor - Weir, Jackson, Leonard, Alex Blair - how long before Finn Russell has a bad game and is consigned to the scrapheap?

[RDW]

It's a fair point on Heathcoat, but from what I've seen of him he is a more competent player than Leonard or Hunter.  And getting regular gametime last year when world cup winner Donald was on the scene was no mean feat.

It is just a shame for him that Ford is seen as the next big thing for England.  Heathcoat choosing to play for Scotland probably didn't help his case either.

We've got to be realistic with him if he does sign though - he is just a young stand off - but he has shown he can put in good displays in the AP and for Scotland A.

[George Carlin]

Heathcote isn't really that much more proven than Leonard - he's spent most of this season as 2nd/3rd choice at Barf behind Ford and the Orange One.  Admittedly he did show a fair amount of potential the previous season, filling in for Donald Duck when he was injured, but at bet that makes him proven AP calibre, nothing more - what's the difference to Leonard being proven Rabo calibre?  I have to say that altho Scotland may not be basking in riches of standoffs, our treatment of the younger ones coming thru is pretty poor - Weir, Jackson, Leonard, Alex Blair - how long before Finn Russell has a bad game and is consigned to the scrapheap?

Would have to disagree with this one Asbo. There was a thread about him earlier in the month and in comparison I noticed that Leonard has about 35 Edinburgh caps and has represented Scotland at U20 level, whereas Heathcote has played for Bath 53 times and has 3 Scotland caps. That has to be 'marginally more proven' and Heathcote would have to be the next cab off the rank.

Am in two minds about this. It's an exciting time to be associated with Leeds as McGeechan has been given the green light to greatly expand the franchise and facilities (for those who didn't see this earlier - http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/rugbyunion/club/10629415/Sir-Ian-McGeechan-to-launch-Yorkshire-Carnegie-rugby-club.html). It's true that this season it became obvious 2 clubs in the Championship were miles better than the others (Bristol and London Welsh) but I wouldn't go so far as to say that Leeds have no imminent prospect of promotion.

I think that ultimately, I just want Leonard to get regular gametime. If that's each week in Championship, then that's fine, particularly if the alternative is that he vanishes like Alex Blair seemed to for a while.

[EWT Spoons]

I don’t think Leonard will improve much beyond where he is now, I would only have kept him as a back up to the squad to cover for injuries.  This probably isn’t really what he wants and if he’s on a fair wedge salary wise then it’s probably for the best he moves on.

Hunter I have no idea about, he’s only played 16 times for us, with only 9 starts.  He was sent on the Macphail scholarship so clearly someone rated him at some point, but I think injury has badly affected his chances.  With any luck he can get fit and find a club.

Piers Francis, no surprise he’s going.  Nothing against the lad, I just don’t think he was any better than Hunter of Leonard when he was brought in.  He occasionally looked half decent, but not worth keeping, especially as he’s NSQ.

As said though, weird time to announce it.

[Majestic83]

Not surprised to see Francis and Hunter go, was never impressed with Hunter even at club level and was surprised he got as long a stint at Edinburgh.
Leonard I am a little more surprised at being let go by Edinburgh. Mostly because there are limited options at stand off at Edinburgh and out of the 3 that are being released he is the best.
However I haven't been overly convinced by Leonard at 10 as I don't think he controls or stamps his authority on a game when I have seen him play. He is ok at Rabo but don't seem him developing much further. He is also on quite a big salary at Edinburgh for a player of his level so will free up a bit of money.

I think next season Carl B and Tonks are obviously going to be the main 2 stand offs with a 3rd one brought in.

I would be extremely surprised if we see Robbie Robinson over here. As I said a few weeks ago he is crocked at the moment and for the foreseeable future to with a hip injury. He hasn't even really trained with the Chiefs this season because he has been that crippled by it.

I can't see it being Heathcote either since he is still contracted to another year at Bath unless they loan him out to Edinburgh.

I think the most likely option is that Jackson is coming to Edinburgh or it will be another South African option or this kiwi guy that is going to be used as back up 10.

[nickj]

I'm surprised to see Leonard go, but I can see why the other two are being ditched.

Its the harsh reality of turning Edinburgh truly pro in my opinion and part of the reason we have a bloated squad.

In other news Tomas Francis has signed for ASBO's Chiefs for 2 years.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/rugby-union/26865324

Is he actually SQ?

[George Carlin]

Couldn't actually find any history about him Nick but received wisdom (always a dangerous thing) has it that his mum is Scottish.

[CraigS1874]

Cant say I am disappointed at that, Harry needs a new start in my opinion. Good player but he is only 21 so a few seasons in a lower division with less pressure will be good for him.

Glad to see Hunter and Francis go though as they were a waste of a wage, now they need to sign a stand off and stick with him for a couple of years so we can gain some consistency. I think we will buy some experienced 10 ie heathcote/jackson and an other youngster. I would like to see george horne from currie given a chance because he has always impressed me but he could be a bit lightweight.

[Majestic83]

from what i am hearing from my contact at Edinburgh, Tonks is going to be viewed purely as a stand off and that Carl B's contract renewal still hasn't been decided. Nick McLenans main positions that he will be used is 15 and 10 and that another stand off will also be on his way, he believes it is going to be Jackson with an announcement soon.

[RDW]

I hope bezzy does get a contract, he's looked a good player so far and a good kicker.

Really dont think Jackson is the right player for Edinburgh.

[George Carlin]

So what are we saying for Edinburgh's backline next year, then?:

09 Hart
10 Tonks/Rhubarb
11 Visser
12 Scott
13 Fife
14 Brown
15 Cuthbert/Bezzmeister

[nickj]

Well, well, well Maj. I wouldn't be too disappointed with that scenario, but I thought Jacko would be heading south with another Sean Lineen 'gem' coming in.

I think Jacko could have done with a complete change of scene to be honest, Bezzy also looks like a good player but I'd have loved to see another SQ option like a fit Robbie Robinson or even a Danny Brough come in to widen Cotter's playing base.

[RDW]

from what i am hearing from my contact at Edinburgh, Tonks is going to be viewed purely as a stand off and that Carl B's contract renewal still hasn't been decided. Nick McLenans main positions that he will be used is 15 and 10 and that another stand off will also be on his way, he believes it is going to be Jackson with an announcement soon.

Any other gossip?

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