Ireland vs Scotland

by **George Carlin** Mon 27 Jan 2014, 6:34 am

First topic message reminder :

Ireland v Scotland

Aviva Stadium, Dublin
Sunday, 2 Feb 2014
Kick-off: 15:00

Referee: Craig Joubert (SARU)
Assistant referee: Jaco Peyper (SARU)
Assistant referee: Mike Fraser (NZR)
TMO: Carlo Damasco (FIR)

A. Squads

1. Ireland

Backs:
Simon Zebo (Cork Constitution/Munster), Craig Gilroy (Dungannon/Ulster), Isaac Boss (Terenure College/Leinster), Darren Cave (Belfast Harlequins/Ulster), Gordon D'Arcy (Lansdowne/Leinster), Keith Earls (Young Munster/Munster), Luke Fitzgerald (Blackrock College/Leinster), Robbie Henshaw (Buccaneers/Connacht), Paddy Jackson (Dungannon/Ulster), Felix Jones (Shannon/Munster), David Kearney (Lansdowne/Leinster), Rob Kearney (UCD/Leinster), Ian Keatley (Young Munster/Munster), Ian Madigan (Blackrock College/Leinster), Kieran Marmion (Corinthians/Connacht) *, Luke Marshall (Ballynahinch/Ulster), Fergus McFadden (Old Belvedere/Leinster), Conor Murray (Garryowen/Munster), Brian O'Driscoll (UCD/Leinster), Eoin Reddan (Lansdowne/Leinster), Jonathan Sexton (Racing Metro 92), Andrew Trimble (Ballymena/Ulster)

Forwards:
Rodney Ah You (Buccaneers/Connacht) *, Stephen Archer (Cork Constitution/Munster), Rory Best (Banbridge/Ulster), Robin Copeland (Cardiff Blues) *, Sean Cronin (St. Mary's College/Leinster), Robbie Diack (Malone/Ulster) *, Cian Healy (Clontarf/Leinster), Jamie Heaslip (Dublin University/Leinster), Iain Henderson (Ballynahinch/Ulster), Chris Henry (Malone/Ulster), Rob Herring (Ballynahinch/Ulster) *, David Kilcoyne (UL Bohemians/Munster), Mike McCarthy (Leinster), Jack McGrath (St. Mary's College/Leinster), Martin Moore (Lansdowne/Leinster) *, Jordi Murphy (Lansdowne/Leinster) *, Paul O'Connell (Young Munster/Munster), Tommy O'Donnell (UL Bohemians/Munster), Peter O'Mahony (Cork Constitution/Munster), Mike Ross (Clontarf/Leinster), Rhys Ruddock (St. Mary's College/Leinster), Devin Toner (Lansdowne/Leinster), Dan Tuohy (Ballymena/Ulster), Damien Varley (Garryowen/Munster)

* Uncapped player

2. Scotland

Forwards:
John Beattie (Montpellier), Kelly Brown (Saracens), Geoff Cross, David Denton, Alasdair Dickinson, Ross Ford (all Edinburgh Rugby), Chris Fusaro (Glasgow Warriors), Grant Gilchrist (Edinburgh Rugby), Ryan Grant, Jonny Gray (both Glasgow Warriors), Richie Gray (Castres), Jim Hamilton (Montpellier), Robert Harley (Glasgow Warriors), Scott Lawson (Newcastle Falcons), Kieran Low (London Irish), Moray Low, Pat MacArthur (both Glasgow Warriors), Ross Rennie (Edinburgh Rugby) Alasdair Strokosch (Perpignan), Tim Swinson and Ryan Wilson (both Glasgow Warriors).

Backs:
Chris Cusiter (Glasgow Warriors), Nick De Luca (Edinburgh Rugby), Alex Dunbar (Glasgow Warriors), Max Evans (Castres), Dougie Fife (Edinburgh Rugby), Stuart Hogg, Ruaridh Jackson, Sean Lamont (all Glasgow Warriors), Greig Laidlaw (Edinburgh Rugby), Sean Maitland (Glasgow Warriors), Matt Scott (Edinburgh Rugby), Tommy Seymour (Glasgow Warriors), Duncan Taylor (Saracens), Greig Tonks (Edinburgh Rugby) and Duncan Weir (Glasgow Warriors).

B. Head To Head

127 Played 127
57 Wins 65
65 Losses 57
5 Draws 5
203 Tries 210
104 Conversions 109
111 Penalties 131
17 Drop Goals 38
1,344 Points 1,303

C. Recent Form

24 February 2013
Scotland 12–8 Ireland

10 March 2012
Ireland 32–14 Scotland

27 February 2011
Scotland 18–21 Ireland

D. Teams

1. Ireland

Ireland vs Scotland - Page 16 Van10

15. Rob Kearney (UCD/Leinster) 49
14. Dave Kearney (Lansdowne/Leinster) 2
13. Brian O'Driscoll (UCD/Leinster) 128
12. Luke Marshall (Ballynahinch/Ulster) 4
11. Andrew Trimble (Ballymena/Ulster) 50
10. Jonathan Sexton (Racing Metro 92) 38
9. Conor Murray (Garryowen/Munster) 22
1. Cian Healy (Clontarf/Leinster) 42
2. Rory Best (Banbridge/Ulster) 70
3. Mike Ross (Clontarf/Leinster) 34
4. Devin Toner (Lansdowne/Leinster) 10
5. Paul O'Connell (Young Munster/Munster) (capt) 88
6. Peter O'Mahony (Cork Constitution/Munster) 19
7. Chris Henry (Malone/Ulster) 9
8. Jamie Heaslip (Dublin University/Leinster) 60

Replacements:

16. Sean Cronin (St. Mary's College/Leinster) 30
17. Jack McGrath (St. Mary's College/Leinster) 3
18. Martin Moore (Lansdowne/Leinster) *
19. Dan Tuohy (Ballymena/Ulster) 7
20. Tommy O'Donnell (UL Bohemians/Munster) 2
21. Isaac Boss (Terenure College/Leinster) 17
22. Paddy Jackson (Dungannon/Ulster) 5
23. Fergus McFadden (Old Belvedere/Leinster) 21

* Denotes uncapped player

2. Scotland

Ireland vs Scotland - Page 16 Mark10

15 Stuart Hogg (Glasgow Warriors) 15 caps, 3 tries, 15 points
14 Sean Maitland (Glasgow Warriors) 8 caps, 1 try, 5 points
13 Alex Dunbar (Glasgow Warriors) 3 caps, 1 try, 5 points
12 Duncan Taylor (Saracens) 6 caps
11 Sean Lamont (Glasgow Warriors) 82 caps, 12 tries, 60 points
10 Duncan Weir (Glasgow Warriors) 8 caps, 1 try, 2 conversions, 9 points
9 Greig Laidlaw (Edinburgh Rugby) 24 caps, 3 tries, 23 conversions, 54 penalties, 223 points
1 Ryan Grant (Glasgow Warriors) 13 caps
2 Ross Ford (Edinburgh Rugby) 71 caps, 2 tries, 10 points
3 Moray Low (Glasgow Warriors) 23 caps
4 Tim Swinson (Glasgow Warriors) 3 caps
5 Jim Hamilton (Montpellier) 50 caps, 1 try, 5 points
6 Ryan Wilson (Glasgow Warriors) 4 caps
7 Kelly Brown (Saracens) CAPTAIN 60 caps, 4 tries, 20 points
8 David Denton (Edinburgh Rugby) 17 caps

Replacements:

16 Pat MacArthur (Glasgow Warriors) 3 caps
17 Alasdair Dickinson (Edinburgh Rugby) 30 caps, 2 tries, 10 points
18 Geoff Cross (Edinburgh Rugby) 23 caps, 1 try, 5 points
19 Richie Gray (Castres) 33 caps, 1 try, 5 points
20 Johnnie Beattie (Montpellier) 26 caps, 3 tries, 15 points
21 Chris Cusiter (Glasgow Warriors) 64 caps, 3 tries, 15 points
22 Matt Scott (Edinburgh Rugby) 16 caps, 3 tries, 15 points
23 Max Evans (Castres) 37 caps, 3 tries, 15 points

by SecretFly Thu 06 Feb 2014, 3:01 pm

rodders wrote:
GunsGerms wrote:Marshall was one of our weaker players IMO. Very strong in defense but couldnt cope with ball in hand.

What do you mean by couldn't cope? As in made no mistakes - 100% pass completion, no handling errors and 18 metres with the ball in heavy traffic.... coincidently the same number of metres D'arcy made against NZ with twice as much possession when he apparently had his best ever game for Ireland...

Em...but Scotland isn't New Zealand though, Rodders. Is it? Really now, is it?

I'm not down on Marshall but I think it's right to mix that position and d'Arcy's experience is, in my opinion, best option for wales - I might be proved wrong but we all go with our instincts. But comparing and contrasting Scotland and New Zeland really won't work. Indeed, only my opinion again, but comparing Scotland and wales won't work either - unless Wales come in dramatically below their best we're going to have acres of more pain to suck up when they come to town.

by **rodders** Thu 06 Feb 2014, 4:25 pm

The problem Fly is that D'arcy "experience", in recent times, against the Welsh and Roberts specifically is to get trampled,knocked backwards and outclassed.

It seems people in Ireland see experience as this omnipotent attribute, which trumps all others, unfortunately bad experience can be worse than none at all. Marshall has no baggage here, nor inferiority complex against the Welsh the way some of his older compatriots have....he doesn't need to have because he's got youth and strength on his side, he can play his own game rather than go in and try and negate his opposite number.

by SecretFly Thu 06 Feb 2014, 4:51 pm

rodders wrote:The problem Fly is that D'arcy "experience", in recent times, against the Welsh and Roberts specifically is to get trampled,knocked backwards and outclassed.

It seems people in Ireland see experience as this omnipotent attribute, which trumps all others, unfortunately bad experience can be worse than none at all. Marshall has no baggage here, nor inferiority complex against the Welsh the way some of his older compatriots have....he doesn't need to have because he's got youth and strength on his side, he can play his own game rather than go in and try and negate his opposite number.

With respect again, Rodders - Marshall played against Scotland. A player on his way but with still much to prove at International level (like Madigan and a few others) No, I couldn't say Marshall is the go-to man yet for a team of the calibre of Wales. Hopefully he'll get a few more games this 6N but I do think you gotta plan to develop the team but also keep us as competitive as possible.

There is no way D'arcy has complexes and fears about Wales, anymore than he has complexes about some of the seriously heavy duty sides he's already faced in his career - at International level and Provincial/European level. There is just no way he's a liabilty and a fragile mind going into the Wales game - and certainly not under the guidance of Schmidt's coaching team who after all plays (or is predicted to play) much more sympathetically to a Leinster blueprint than Kidney ever managed.

Marshall, more chances this 6N season? Wouldn't be against it at all. D'arcy for Wales...my instincts say yes.

by Rory_Gallagher Thu 06 Feb 2014, 4:59 pm

GunsGerms wrote:Marshall was one of our weaker players IMO. Very strong in defense but couldnt cope with ball in hand.

Based on what? This is a very bizarre statement. Headscratch

by GunsGerms Thu 06 Feb 2014, 5:01 pm

Rory_Gallagher wrote:
GunsGerms wrote:Marshall was one of our weaker players IMO. Very strong in defense but couldnt cope with ball in hand.

Based on what? This is a very bizarre statement.

Based on my observation that he didn't really contribute much to our attack. Very few line breaks or meters gained.

by **rodders** Thu 06 Feb 2014, 5:03 pm

Fair enough fly, I have a lot of respect for D'arcy and what he's achieved and am all for the auld warhorse rolling back the years...... however I think we are reaching the stage were we've enough young bucks straining at the leash that we don't need to send these old hands out and hope they have something left in the tank.

by asoreleftshoulder Thu 06 Feb 2014, 5:06 pm

rodders wrote:The problem Fly is that D'arcy "experience", in recent times, against the Welsh and Roberts specifically is to get trampled,knocked backwards and outclassed.

It seems people in Ireland see experience as this omnipotent attribute, which trumps all others, unfortunately bad experience can be worse than none at all. Marshall has no baggage here, nor inferiority complex against the Welsh the way some of his older compatriots have....he doesn't need to have because he's got youth and strength on his side, he can play his own game rather than go in and try and negate his opposite number.

D'Arcy's last experience against Wales was nothing of the sort,in fact it was only when he went off that Wales got on top.Now obviously I'm not saying the dip in Irelands performance was solely down to losing D'Arcy but he won't be having any nightmares about that game.

by **rodders** Thu 06 Feb 2014, 5:10 pm

The dip in Irelands performance came because Wales decided to actually play.

D'arcy has had a torrid time against Roberts in their last few meetings.

by asoreleftshoulder Thu 06 Feb 2014, 5:32 pm

rodders wrote:The dip in Irelands performance came because Wales decided to actually play.

D'arcy has had a torrid time against Roberts in their last few meetings.

The bolded is just conjecture,you can just as easily say Wales only started to come back because Ireland stopped playing.
You have to go back to the World Cup to find a match D'Arcy has struggled against Roberts,he hasn't been outstanding in the matches since but that was due to him being in poor to average form,it was nothing unique to Wales or Roberts.

by **Notch** Thu 06 Feb 2014, 6:26 pm

Argument from 606v4, 2025;

rodderney wrote:
LeinsterGoy wrote:
Notch2.0 wrote:I know Luke Marshall has been playing fairly averagely, but he should be in the team because of his relationship with Paddy Jackson. They know each others games inside out, they've won European Super League titles together, they've been on a winning Lions tour together in Argentina, they've been the fulcrum of the Ireland side ever since Sexton retired! As talented an inside centre as Jean-Baptiste O'Carroll-Kelly is and as impressive as he's been in his cameos for Ireland, Luke Marshall just has that experience with Jackson. Jackson clearly trusts him, they defend and attack as a unit and that familiarity is why they keep getting picked together!

Yeah but Luke Marshall has been exposed for his lack of vision a few times in the last few tests... he hasn't been the same since his brain was replaced with a sentient metal ball due to repeated concussions. The 'JBOCK' has been dominating the RDS in the Pro4 in the run-up to the 6N, and his AMC is OTC so when I see Marshall still ahead of him I don't know whether to SMFH or ROFL. Isn't it time Neil Doak started looking to build a squad for the 2027 RWC... or at least stop the obvious Ulster bias!

God man, would you give over with that old-fashioned lingo?

We may not know what competitions we're playing in next season... but some things will just never change!

by Nachos Jones Thu 06 Feb 2014, 6:33 pm

As much as I really don't want to agree with the Earl's hating rodders ( Wink

), Marshall is truly the better option than D'Arcy, even against Wales. Time to let the older boys leave and develop the side for the future, sadly D'Arcy is not in those plans.

by The Boss Thu 06 Feb 2014, 6:34 pm

Mods shouldn't be advertising other boards Notch...

In all seriousness, I'd have picked Luke (Hope you're paying heed, Joe). But I can understand why Darce has been picked. I like the look if the team but on the bench I don't see any game changers in the backs. Boss is solid and a good defender. Paddy is a great prospect but similar enough to sexton without being as good and Ferg works his balls off without having any real zip.

If it's not going right in the backs I don't see anything there to change it except if Paddy comes on and Sexton goes to 12.

by Golden Thu 06 Feb 2014, 6:46 pm

Notch wrote:Argument from 606v4, 2025;

rodderney wrote:
LeinsterGoy wrote:
Notch2.0 wrote:I know Luke Marshall has been playing fairly averagely, but he should be in the team because of his relationship with Paddy Jackson. They know each others games inside out, they've won European Super League titles together, they've been on a winning Lions tour together in Argentina, they've been the fulcrum of the Ireland side ever since Sexton retired! As talented an inside centre as Jean-Baptiste O'Carroll-Kelly is and as impressive as he's been in his cameos for Ireland, Luke Marshall just has that experience with Jackson. Jackson clearly trusts him, they defend and attack as a unit and that familiarity is why they keep getting picked together!

Yeah but Luke Marshall has been exposed for his lack of vision a few times in the last few tests... he hasn't been the same since his brain was replaced with a sentient metal ball due to repeated concussions. The 'JBOCK' has been dominating the RDS in the Pro4 in the run-up to the 6N, and his AMC is OTC so when I see Marshall still ahead of him I don't know whether to SMFH or ROFL. Isn't it time Neil Doak started looking to build a squad for the 2027 RWC... or at least stop the obvious Ulster bias!

God man, would you give over with that old-fashioned lingo?

We may not know what competitions we're playing in next season... but some things will just never change!

Hes not South African or kiwi sounding enough to get on the 2025 Irish team.

by **Notch** Thu 06 Feb 2014, 7:07 pm

He's actually not Irish at all Golden. Only qualifies for Ireland through having a granny from Johannesburg (the IRB relaxing the qualification laws in time for the 2023 World Cup is an ongoing source of controversy)

by **rodders** Thu 06 Feb 2014, 9:14 pm

Nachos Jones wrote:As much as I really don't want to agree with the Earl's hating rodders ( ), Marshall is truly the better option than D'Arcy, even against Wales. Time to let the older boys leave and develop the side for the future, sadly D'Arcy is not in those plans.

Gees I forgot about Earlsy ... anyways this week its Gordon and McFadden in the firing line.... I haven't give Murray a good slagging in a while so maybe him next week.... angel

by SecretFly Thu 06 Feb 2014, 9:33 pm

If you're of a mind to slag Murray next week...it probably means we've lost and he was too slow (and looking around him and chatting as Phillips does one of his flash harry quick breaks from the back of a scrum)

by SecretFly Thu 06 Feb 2014, 9:34 pm

We miss Earls in a Schmidt team. I believe Schmidt could work wonders with steading Earl's ballast tanks and making him a much more potent unit.

by **rodders** Thu 06 Feb 2014, 9:38 pm

Fly I tell you Murray and Phillips are so slow they might have to serve the post match meals during the match.

by SecretFly Thu 06 Feb 2014, 10:06 pm

Murray seems to be a clockwork player. You can't actually tell him to keep the pace up...he just unwinds over time (through the course of four or five games) and there is just nothing anyone can do about it until the key goes back into his back and his spring is tightened again.

I just can't understand 9s who almost willfully play slow even as I'm bloody sure their coaches are screaming at them in training "Faster..... F**K it! Faster!!!!!" "Yeah, boss...I'll go faster in me own f**kin' time, right"

by ME-109 Thu 06 Feb 2014, 10:21 pm

Oh jebus...zig and zag on the intricacies of Scrum half play. You are both better off with the little amusing if brainless soundbites and waffle filled prose....stick to it.

by SecretFly Thu 06 Feb 2014, 10:33 pm

ME-109 wrote:Oh jebus...zig and zag on the intricacies of Scrum half play. You are both better off with the little amusing if brainless soundbites and waffle filled prose....stick to it.

Thanks for the vote of confidence ME...always nice to know you're rearguarding me.... Wink

Of course, as always...I did say I speak my mind...and in amongst all the little cute and silly soundbites,I stick to my story on Murray and his relationship with time. I act the clown but I'm no clown when I get angry watching him operate at a pace he has the skill to exceed. More consistency Murray...just like most of your team-mates (who need to up their pace more consistently that is). Good man.

by **rodders** Fri 07 Feb 2014, 9:32 am

ME-109 wrote:Oh jebus...zig and zag on the intricacies of Scrum half play. You are both better off with the little amusing if brainless soundbites and waffle filled prose....stick to it.

I always though of myself more as the Dustin the turkey type of scrum half analyst.

by SecretFly Fri 07 Feb 2014, 11:51 am

I'm the Pig builder (Dustin's mate)...he was my favourite: Forget his name but he had a lovely deep Dub accent, spoken in a high pitched squeal.

by Mickado Fri 07 Feb 2014, 11:53 am

Snotser Galligan.

by **rodders** Fri 07 Feb 2014, 11:56 am

Mickado wrote:Snotser Galligan.

Sounds like a guy who'd get the heads up on the team selections and write a column in the IT.

by ME-109 Fri 07 Feb 2014, 11:56 am

Podge and Rodge maybe

by Mickado Fri 07 Feb 2014, 12:07 pm

Spoiler:

by **profitius** Fri 07 Feb 2014, 12:09 pm

rodders wrote:The dip in Irelands performance came because Wales decided to actually play.

D'arcy has had a torrid time against Roberts in their last few meetings.

Funny how every team decided to play against Ireland in the second half. Nothing to do with Ireland going into their famous defensive mode?

by SecretFly Fri 07 Feb 2014, 12:42 pm

ME-109 wrote:Podge and Rodge maybe

Nope..they're muck men from the Midlands or the Westh... or the South.

by SecretFly Fri 07 Feb 2014, 12:44 pm

profitius wrote:
rodders wrote:The dip in Irelands performance came because Wales decided to actually play.

D'arcy has had a torrid time against Roberts in their last few meetings.

Funny how every team decided to play against Ireland in the second half. Nothing to do with Ireland going into their famous defensive mode?

Correct. The 'constant' is ireland being a one half team (when at their best...!!!) not that the other team suddenly comes alive. New Zealand kept at us because they have the abilty to - but also because they were familiar with the Ireland one-half 'policy'. They knew we'd collapse as time wore on.

by SecretFly Fri 07 Feb 2014, 12:45 pm

Mickado wrote:

Spoiler:

yep...that's me - the Fly.

by TJ Fri 07 Feb 2014, 12:54 pm

GloriousEmpire wrote:
SecretFly wrote:Has 606v2 censored/modded itself out of existence? This is the deadest 6N I've ever witnessed on a 606 forum (old BEEB one or this one). There are less people contributing to the 'ye ancient old yearly war of muck and attrition' than contributes to a Connacht v Zebre Pro12 encounter.

The wheel has well and truly fell off the axle as regards rugby enthusiasm on this site.

Yes, it's all become a bit sterile. It's like a forum for old ladies discussing lawn bowling or croquet, politely.

The problem is that the voice of the most conservative posters has been elevated over those who like to speak the truth, which is seen as "too controversial" to be heard.

Or - we are bored of folk deliberately being controversial for the sake of it and are not responding to their trolls?

by **rodders** Fri 07 Feb 2014, 2:04 pm

profitius wrote:
rodders wrote:The dip in Irelands performance came because Wales decided to actually play.

D'arcy has had a torrid time against Roberts in their last few meetings.

Funny how every team decided to play against Ireland in the second half. Nothing to do with Ireland going into their famous defensive mode?

Well actually Scotland decided to play in the first last week.

Dear Gordon, sorry for the abuse - look forward to you and your beard showing Roberts and that other fella a clean pair of heals.... just don't stretch you hamstrings, you're no spring chicken these days, unlike when you got those 2 jammy tries against the scots.

Rodders.

by SecretFly Fri 07 Feb 2014, 2:25 pm

D'arcy- I wonder will the Welsh players abuse his beard when up close and personal and hidden from the ref?

If it gets patchy during the game I'll be up in arms calling for a TMO close look at any whiskaphobia offences by the Welsh.

by Taffineastbourne Fri 07 Feb 2014, 2:30 pm

SecretFly wrote:D'arcy- I wonder will the Welsh players abuse his beard when up close and personal and hidden from the ref?

If it gets patchy during the game I'll be up in arms calling for a TMO close look at any whiskaphobia offences by the Welsh.

One of the Welsh pack has concealed one of those amazing gizmos that remove unwanted hair.After the first ruck in which he is caught up do not be surprised to see a Colonel Sanders lookalikes emerge!

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