Ireland vs Scotland

Ireland vs Scotland

RWC 2023, Pool B

Saturday 7 October, 8pm
Stade de France, Saint-Denis

Referee: Nic Berry
Assistant Referee 1: Wayne Barnes
Assistant Referee 2: Jordan Way
TV Match Official: Brett Cronan

Ireland

15. Hugo Keenan, 14. Mack Hansen, 13. Garry Ringrose, 12. Bundee Aki, 11. James Lowe, 10. Johnny Sexton, 9. Jamison Gibson-Park

1. Andrew Porter, 2. Dan Sheehan, 3. Tadhg Furlong, 4. Tadhg Beirne, 5. Iain Henderson, 6. Peter O’Mahony, 7. Josh van der Flier, 8. Caelan Doris

Replacements:16. Ronan Kelleher, 17. David Kilcoyne, 18. Finlay Bealham, 19. James Ryan, 20. Jack Conan, 21. Conor Murray, 22. Jack Crowley, 23. Stuart McCloskey

Scotland

15. Blair Kinghorn, 14. Darcy Graham, 13. Huw Jones, 12. Sione Tuipulotu, 11. Duhan van der Merwe, 10. Finn Russell, 9. Ali Price; 1. Pierre Schoeman, 2. George Turner, 3. Zander Fagerson, 4. Richie Gray, 5. Grant Gilchrist, 6. Jamie Ritchie (capt), 7. Rory Darge, 8. Jack Dempsey.

Replacements: 16. Ewan Ashman, 17. Rory Sutherland, 18. WP Nel, 19. Scott Cummings, 20. Matt Fagerson, 21. Luke Crosbie, 22. George Horne, 23. Ollie Smith.

Ah jesus - let's just get this one out of the way with so that I can formally start on the sedatives and Guinness chasers.

Some big selection calls here for me.

Front row - we know who the starting 3 are but what about the subs? Bhatti or Sutherland is probably a coin toss. Nel is solid but Sebastian offers more around the park.

Second row - our lineout needs to be flawless against one of the best drilled packs in the world. That tends to mean big Ritchie starting and playing 80. Who joins him and who on the bench? Whoever we pick needs to have lineout security as #1 priority.

Back row - will Ritchie be fit? If not that makes selection easy with Fagerson promoted to 6 and Watson bench. If Ritchie is fit so you make room for Watson?

Scrum half - White then Horne

Standoff - Russell obvs, but Healy is showing himself to be a really usefulness player at international level, with a huge boot. You won't.take Russell off so if you have Healy he'd likely come on at fullback.

Centres - for me the most important decision. Huwopolotu is the safe bet but haven't fired on all cylinders since 6N, and haven't had a consistent run into the Ireland game. Harris is now the form 13.but has barely played with Tuoipolotu this year. Redpath looks all class at 12. Our midfield will be tested relentlessly and we need a settle combo so that likely points to Huwopolotu - sorry Harris.

Back 3 - Duhan, Darcy, Kinghorn. Sorry Steyn.

My squad, which is very much based on experience and time together:

Shoe
Turner
Fagerson
Gray
Gilchrist
Ritchie/Fagerson
Darge
Dempsey

White
Finn
Duhan
Tuoipolotu
Jones
Darcy
Kinghorn

Bhatti, Ashman, Nel, Skinner, Watson/Fagerson, Horne, Healy, Harris

That is, obviously, our best team on paper. But it's also the team that can't beat Ireland. We had a gilt-edged opportunity in the 6 nations to get the monkey off our back, with a good early try from Huw Jones, and with them 2 hookers down and with van der Flier throwing into the lineouts we still managed to lose.

We bottled it. I wouldn't be averse to Townsend mixing things up a bit now, although how and where I do not know.

I tend to think we should mix it up a little as well, plenty players are putting up their hands for selection that's for sure.

Maybe something like this:

1. Sutherland - the best scrumaging LH we have
2. Turner
3. Fagerson Z
4. Gray
5. Gilchrist
6. Ritchie - the mood music suggests he will be back
7. Watson - he really looked up for it last night (and I do appreciate it was only Romania)
8. Dempsey
9. White
10. Russell
11. DVDM
12. Tuipolotu
13. Harris
14. Graham
15. Kinghorn

Subs

Schoeman
Ashman
Nel - but I think that Sebastian is very very close
Cummings
Fagerson M
Darge
Horne
Redpath


If we go for a 5:3 bench

Schoeman
Ashman
Nel
Cummings
Darge
Horne
Redpath
Steyn


Seems really tough to leave Shuggie out, but he has probably been the least effective of the centres from what we have seen so far.

We know Sione is just as good at 13 as 12 and Redpath is definitely a point of difference, so he has to be on the bench.


This is going to be a really tough selection!

Flounder principal in ahead of Cummings??? That's just crazy talk.

Mcsweens...good point; we know what our "everyone agrees that's the starting XV" is, but it wouldn't be the Tombola without one or two surprises.

Gee's in the right area, but it will be the balance on the bench which is the tricky bit.

I'm not sure why, but my head hurts bigmuch bigly today and the screen pains my eyes.

Maybes later.

From an Ireland point of view, we need to win this so I would say we go out with the same team that faced the boks.

But my concern is we have a few players who have had no or little game time (Conan, McCloskey, O'Brien, O'Toole) and if we pick up a couple of injuries could end up starting against a fired up all blacks, having not played in over a month.

So do we go same team and pray to the Injury Gods that we get through ok?

Or do we play these players and hope they can perform to beat a Scottish team battling for qualification?

It's a right old conundrum that has been plaguing me since the final whistle last week

I think Ireland have to go full strength, Scotland will be up for the game and Ireland still need the win. You can't take chances with a very good Scotland team. If you do that your future planning may be for nothing, you have to just go full strength and whatever comes after that you deal with

Well time has come for the biggn'.

Still don't expect to get through but if we can get a scalp we can consider this WC as successful as it could realistically have been. Get an upset and get through will have surpassed expectations. Genuinely think we can give Ireland a game, or they're going to crush us like they did 4 years ago with nothing in-between. Just very worried about our set piece tbh.

neilthom7 wrote:I think Ireland have to go full strength, Scotland will be up for the game and Ireland still need the win.  You can't take chances with a very good Scotland team.  If you do that your future planning may be for nothing, you have to just go full strength and whatever comes after that you deal with

I think there might be some changes but without loss of quality. Conan might come to 8, Sheehan at 2 and Henshaw to 12. Its possible that Murray and Byrne/Crowley could start too but that would be a gamble. The thing is starting Sexton is also a bit of a gamble.

I see three changes at most though.

neilthom7 wrote:I think Ireland have to go full strength, Scotland will be up for the game and Ireland still need the win.  You can't take chances with a very good Scotland team.  If you do that your future planning may be for nothing, you have to just go full strength and whatever comes after that you deal with

Wow - it didn't occur to me for a second that Ireland might be holding players back for the quarter finals. But you're right Neil - it's possible.

That would be fairly disrespectful and I really don't think it will happen.

Risky too ...

George Carlin wrote:

neilthom7 wrote:I think Ireland have to go full strength, Scotland will be up for the game and Ireland still need the win.  You can't take chances with a very good Scotland team.  If you do that your future planning may be for nothing, you have to just go full strength and whatever comes after that you deal with

Wow - it didn't occur to me for a second that Ireland might be holding players back for the quarter finals. But you're right Neil - it's possible.

That would be fairly disrespectful and I really don't think it will happen.

100% you don't take that chance, that's the kind of decision that blows up in your face. I don't think Andy Farrell would either, he's not that kind of person

So Ireland's selection conundrum is, "Pick a full strength side and risk losing one or two key players for the, inevitable, semi OR rest three or four and run the risk of adding fuel to the fire that is Scotland's motivation."

Oh poor Andy Farrell. What wouldn't Toonie give to have such troubles.Actually if the positions were reversed I would bet the house on Scotland losing and missing out on a QF. It's what we do best.

What exactly did we learn from the Roumania rout? Nothing whatsoever. The only takeaway for me is that anyone who played the full 80 probably won't feature against Ireland. Other than that? ADHD Kid is lethal against a fragmented defence? Given space and tome Ben Healey has a very good kicking game? That's like suddenly having the revelatory insight that the present government is incompetent, greedy and uninterested in anyone but themselves.

My selection process?  I have a sneaky feeling that Toonie will want to stay in the game for an hour then up the pace with the replacements.

1. Sutherland is the best scrummager, Shooey the best carrier, Bhatti is probably midway between both. Sutherland to start, in an attempt to limit the number of scrum penalties. Shooey to take the battle to them in the last quarter.

2. Turner is way ahead of the others. i wouldn't be surprised if Scouse Jonny gets on the bench.

3. Ragnar is a nailed on starter. WP's big strength is his solidity in the scrum; Javan carries better, if Toonie is committed to upping the pace then it may well be Javan.

4. Ritchie simples

5. GG for the more pugilistic attitude or Cummings for the dynamism? I think Toonie starts the scrapper and brings on Cummings to take the game away from a tiring Irish pack/ chase the game. delete as appropriate

6. Mbawza

7.Darge or Hamish? The old warrior gave it a real lash against the Roumanians but Darge has been very, very good.

8. Dempsey.   Replacement: Hamish or Fagerson. I think it's Fagerson who can cover 6 & 8.

9.White, if he's fit. Hornito for the last 30.

10. Dancer

11. Duhan

12. &13 Huipoluto

14. Seaman ADHD to bench. If it's a 6/2 split then Seaman can cover the centres.

15. Blarehorn. If it's a 6/2 bench we have the doomsday scenario of Blarehorn moving to 10   I would be tempted to go 5/3 with Healey covering 10 and 15.

So, that's the Boks on 15 points. We need to win.

I predict we bin by 6points, after scoring three tries and being held up over the line on five separate occasions.

I think one of our mistakes continues to be not using a 6:2 bench. We are not winning with an hour of Healy at 10 if Russell comes off early and Kinghorn can survive 20 minutes at FH if it happens late and we are ahead. What is the point having our last backs sub coming on with 10 minutes to go to make little impact?

A 6:2 bench with Horne and Harris (best defensive player in case someone gets crocked early). Huw Jones covers 12/15, Harris covers wing and Kinghorn covers 10.

I also want the forwards to be told they have 50-55 minutes. Empty the tank. No slow starts or 10 minute switch offs. The cavalry will arrive like the Rohirrim at Minas Tirith...

After they got to 15 it would have been better for Scotland if SA had got another converted try ...

jimbopip wrote:So Ireland's selection conundrum is, "Pick a full strength side and risk losing one or two key players for the, inevitable, semi OR rest three or four and run the risk of adding fuel to the fire that is Scotland's motivation.

The quarter final comes first and thats an over simplification of the selection question. It is very hard to play three big games in a row with the same team, Tonga, SA and Scotland. Ireland may need to rotate a bit to keep the team fresh too. Bringing guys like Conan, Sheehan and Henshaw into the team does that without a loss of quality.

The only guy they may hold back for a quarter final is Sexton and that would be a big gamble to not play him but also a bit of a gamble to play him.

I think its fair to say Ireland are in a stronger position going into the game than Scotland because Ireland don't need to win and Scotland do but Ireland will definitely be treating the game as must win.

Well the Irish seem to think theyre in the Qtrs already so i seriously hope Scotland smash them over the park.

I doubt the Irish are that arrogant, pundits and fans doesn't depict the mind set of the team. Ireland is on a 16 match winning streak, you don't often get there, as close as they are to another milestone they won't lack in motivation

I see some French journalists have asked Neinebar if he is worried about an agreed match fix between Ireland and Scotland to ensure SA do not progress through to the QF.

So, SA points diff of +117, Ire +122, Sco +97

Is there a scenario where all teams are on 15 points and Ireland + Scotland PD is better than SA? To my mind it seems like Scotland needs to win by +20 but surely that just punts Ireland out?

That is pretty far fetched speculation!

If Scotland got the required PD to go top then the decider between SA and Ireland would be the head to head, so SA would go out ...

BigGee wrote:That is pretty far fetched speculation!

Definitely well into the tinfoil hat stuff that!

Geordie wrote:Well the Irish seem to think theyre in the Qtrs already so i seriously hope Scotland smash them over the park.

Not sure where you got that from. Can you point to a source?

Collapse2005 wrote:

Geordie wrote:Well the Irish seem to think theyre in the Qtrs already so i seriously hope Scotland smash them over the park.

Not sure where you got that from. Can you point to a source?

I think it comes from media outlets asking ireland players or coaches about potential quarter final match ups - they obviously get an answer but the headline becomes "Irish expecting tough ask from all blacks in quarters". In conjunction all the non-irish pundits are expecting ireland to win so have moved on already. People hear this and go "how arrogant of the Irish" despite none of them actually thinking like this. All the chat from the players has been "Scotland are blo0dy dangerous, we arent getting ahead of ourselves" - See sexton being interviewed by the bbc recently.

So, its the non-irish medias fault. Even Matt Williams was complimentary of Scotland!

RDW wrote:

BigGee wrote:That is pretty far fetched speculation!

Definitely well into the tinfoil hat stuff that!

Especially as no-one is likely to get a red card to affect the result based on the standard now being used ...

Heaf wrote:If Scotland got the required PD to go top then the decider between SA and Ireland would be the head to head, so SA would go out ...

So if all teams are on 15 points then it becomes "who won the head to head" which would be shared equally - then the teams get ranked by PD?

Tramptastic wrote:I see some French journalists have asked Neinebar if he is worried about an agreed match fix between Ireland and Scotland to ensure SA do not progress through to the QF.

So, SA points diff of +117, Ire +122, Sco +97

Is there a scenario where all teams are on 15 points and Ireland + Scotland PD is better than SA? To my mind it seems like Scotland needs to win by +20 but surely that just punts Ireland out?

Yes SA will be knocked out if Scotland and Ireland both get try bonus points and Scotland win by 21 points because in a three way tie points difference decides 1st place and head to head decides second place.

Tramptastic wrote:

Heaf wrote:If Scotland got the required PD to go top then the decider between SA and Ireland would be the head to head, so SA would go out ...

So if all teams are on 15 points then it becomes "who won the head to head" which would be shared equally - then the teams get ranked by PD?

In a three way tie only 1st place is decided by points difference, 2nd place decided by head to head.

Tramptastic wrote:

Collapse2005 wrote:

Geordie wrote:Well the Irish seem to think theyre in the Qtrs already so i seriously hope Scotland smash them over the park.

Not sure where you got that from. Can you point to a source?

I think it comes from media outlets asking ireland players or coaches about potential quarter final match ups - they obviously get an answer but the headline becomes "Irish expecting tough ask from all blacks in quarters". In conjunction all the non-irish pundits are expecting ireland to win so have moved on already. People hear this and go "how arrogant of the Irish" despite none of them actually thinking like this. All the chat from the players has been "Scotland are blo0dy dangerous, we arent getting ahead of ourselves" - See sexton being interviewed by the bbc recently.

So, its the non-irish medias fault. Even Matt Williams was complimentary of Scotland!

Thats a bit like saying Jacques Nienabar clamed Ireland and Scotland could team up a match fix the group because he was asked about whether it was possible for them to do that.

Everyone knows that Scotland is a bloody tough game and they could conceivably win. This is a knock out match.

Collapse2005 wrote:

Tramptastic wrote:

Collapse2005 wrote:

Geordie wrote:Well the Irish seem to think theyre in the Qtrs already so i seriously hope Scotland smash them over the park.

Not sure where you got that from. Can you point to a source?

I think it comes from media outlets asking ireland players or coaches about potential quarter final match ups - they obviously get an answer but the headline becomes "Irish expecting tough ask from all blacks in quarters". In conjunction all the non-irish pundits are expecting ireland to win so have moved on already. People hear this and go "how arrogant of the Irish" despite none of them actually thinking like this. All the chat from the players has been "Scotland are blo0dy dangerous, we arent getting ahead of ourselves" - See sexton being interviewed by the bbc recently.

So, its the non-irish medias fault. Even Matt Williams was complimentary of Scotland!

Thats a bit like saying Jacques Nienabar clamed Ireland and Scotland could team up a match fix the group because he was asked about whether it was possible for them to do that.

Everyone knows that Scotland is a bloody tough game and they could conceivably win. This is a knock out match.

Aye thats what im saying, its entirely possible for opinion to be misconstrued intentionally by media keen to sell headlines. Outrage creates commentary, creates clicks, creates network traffic, draws in advertising money blah blah blah.

I dont think the irish are arrogant. I also dont believe they have a world cup curse. But a well drilled, professional, rank 1 Irish outfit who are taking the game seriously doesnt sell well.

On a slight tangent, i got into a chat with a journalist based in london who writes for the telegraph and the daily mail. A couple of pints in I asked "do you guys manufacture headlines, is that a thing or in the realms of conspiracy nuts?". Now, she reports on politics, her response was "absolutely". Ask a leading question of an MP who knows what response is required. Having recieved the required response our journalist goes to the opposition and asks "can you comment on this statement?" the headline THEN becomes "opposition MP forced to deny allegations". Story out of nothing. The journos and editors apparently work in conjunction with political leaders to manufacture narratives at the correct time.

So, is it out the realms of possibility for a rugby journo to attempt to create a match fixing discussion in the name of website traffic?

I suspect the team we'll see for this game, will be the same 15 that started against SA.  Toonie obviously believes that to be his strongest side.  I know Watson, Harris etc had good games in their last run out, but with the greatest of respect it was Romania, so all performances need to be viewed through that prism.

We will probably see some changes to the bench, not least because Cherry has gone home, but we might see a 6/2 split, or Horne might come onto the bench ahead of Price.  Although I think Price might get the bench nod, as in the highly unlikely scenario we've got what we need to qualify, then Toonie will want to see the game out and will see Price as a safe pair of hands.  If we need to chase the game, then it's likely already too late.

All of this is largely irrelevant anyway, Ireland aren't the number one team in the world by fluke, they've repeatedly beaten the top teams to get to this position.  Across the side they don't have any obvious weaknesses and have a coach who is amongst the best in the world.  

The chances of Scotland getting a win while not letting Ireland get a LBP/TBP is the stuff of fantasy.  Look at the 6n, Ireland lost player after player and still got the better of us.  I know this is going to seem really negative, but I think we can give Ireland a game, we're just not at the level currently where we can win and beat the number one side in the world by a margin.  Just getting a win would be a huge result (and do wonders for our world ranking), but sadly not quite enough.

I hope we at least run Ireland close and make them work for their inevitable qualification.  Also, for the record I have no issue with Irish fans (although they largely haven't) taking about who they might face in the qtrs.  They would have to mess up significantly to let this slip away from them, and having faith in their team and coaches to not let that happen isn't so much as them writing us off, but more a confidence in their side, which given how they have performed over the last few years is more than justified.

EWT Spoons wrote:I suspect the team we'll see for this game, will be the same 15 that started against SA.  Toonie obviously believes that to be his strongest side.  I know Watson, Harris etc had good games in their last run out, but with the greatest of respect it was Romania, so all performances need to be viewed through that prism.

We will probably see some changes to the bench, not least because Cherry has gone home, but we might see a 6/2 split, or Horne might come onto the bench ahead of Price.  Although I think Price might get the bench nod, as in the highly unlikely scenario we've got what we need to qualify, then Toonie will want to see the game out and will see Price as a safe pair of hands.  If we need to chase the game, then it's likely already too late.

All of this is largely irrelevant anyway, Ireland aren't the number one team in the world by fluke, they've repeatedly beaten the top teams to get to this position.  Across the side they don't have any obvious weaknesses and have a coach who is amongst the best in the world.  

The chances of Scotland getting a win while not letting Ireland get a LBP/TBP is the stuff of fantasy.  Look at the 6n, Ireland lost player after player and still got the better of us.  I know this is going to seem really negative, but I think we can give Ireland a game, we're just not at the level currently where we can win and beat the number one side in the world by a margin.  Just getting a win would be a huge result (and do wonders for our world ranking), but sadly not quite enough.

I hope we at least run Ireland close and make them work for their inevitable qualification.  Also, for the record I have no issue with Irish fans (although they largely haven't) taking about who they might face in the qtrs.  They would have to mess up significantly to let this slip away from them, and having faith in their team and coaches to not let that happen isn't so much as them writing us off, but more a confidence in their side, which given how they have performed over the last few years is more than justified.

I'm with Spoons on this alas

I'll make a call on the team before i get it passed to me tomorrow.

I agree with EWT regarding an unchanged starting side from the SA game with the exception of Sutherland in for Schoe. Sutherlands loose play has actually been sharper than schoe recently and he's a better scrummager. Looking good against Romania doesn't mean much. Harris looked very good ball in hand but so would Jones. Toonie likes a fast wide game, this is not Harris' strengths.

I think we'll see a 5-3 bench split with the backs being Horne, Redpath and Steyn. If Graham or Duhan are having a mare under the high ball then Steyn can come on and bolster the back 3.

Horne as replacement scrum half is key to Scotlands last 20-30 minute gameplan. Whether they are behind or infront Toonies team like to back their fitness and increase the tempo in the last half - see France warm up games. Horne is so fast to the breakdown that the tempo increases just by him getting there half a second quicker than Price and knowing what he's doing faster. Toonie wont change this.

bench to be:

Matthews
Schoeman
WP Nel
Cummings
Fagerson
Horne
Redpath
Steyn

Mathews over Ashman?

That's a big call!

I can see the logic for Mathews ahead of Ashman, given Mathews for spells last season was keeping Turner and Brown out the side, whereas Ashman was struggling for game time at Sale. With his move to Edinburgh I think Ashman goes in as 1st choice and will develop and likely surpass some/all of the other potential hookers Scotland has, but he's possibly not quite there yet.

It would be a bold call by Toonie and I hope he's got them actually competing for that bench slot, rather than just going with Ashman because he was part of the original squad

Tramptastic wrote:bench to be:

Matthews
Schoeman
WP Nel
Cummings
Fagerson
Horne
Redpath
Steyn

I'd be happy enough with that bench, also with Suz starting.

It is more than Mathews, for all his credits, has only played 20 mins of international rugby v Romania and that is not a lot.

JM had a pretty good case to be included in the squad, but at the end of the dsy Toonie went with experience. I don't see him moving away from that.

Ashman and Mathews are actually quite similar players, both very dynamic hookers in the loose. The main thing that seperates them is thd extra international experience that Ashman now has.

tramp, Tramp no...

I thought Spoons had set the party line; you know, we're doomed! No chance! Ireland must win.
we'd have been happy with that all week and then secretly hoped we were wrong.
But no! You have to give us a logical, sensible selection which could actually win.
Stop raising our hopes.

Scouse Jonny has shown up much better in the hooker stakes; he's a genuine fat boy and looks like a nutter unsupervised.

I’m just putting this out there

Imagine the video Rassie will produce if Scotland beat Ireland by 21 points and both teams score 4 tries

BigGee wrote:It is more than Mathews, for all his credits, has only played 20 mins of international rugby v Romania and that is not a lot.

JM had a pretty good case to be included in the squad, but at the end of the dsy Toonie went with experience. I don't see him moving away from that.

Ashman and Mathews are actually quite similar players, both very dynamic hookers in the loose. The main thing that seperates them is thd extra international experience that Ashman now has.

Oh I agree that Mathews would be a massive outsider to get the nod, but it would be hard to argue that Ashman has set the heather alight. In an ideal world neither of them would be in contention to play this weekend, as one is massively inexperienced internationally (as you call out) and the other isn't really in form or potentially up to the standard required (yet). As I said in my earlier post, I hope Toonie has them throwing lineout after lineout in training and will judge who is best suited, rather than just going on rep. I don't mind who it is between them, we just need to make sure our lineout doesn't go to pot if/when Turner is replaced.

tigertattie wrote:I’m just putting this out there

Imagine the video Rassie will produce if Scotland beat Ireland by 21 points and both teams score 4 tries

Can you imagine the sheer mass of salt produced by south african facebook commenters?

The trouble with throwing lineout in training is that it does not replicate doing it under pressure in a match and all of our hookers bar none seem to get the yips on occasikns in those big moments.

Think Fraser Brown 8 years ago!

I would not have any great issue if he did pick JM over Ashman I love what he brings to Glasgow as a player but I don't think he will. If there really is nothing between them, then he should stick with Ashman, he may well be our future and it could be pretty devastating to him to be dropped now, he may need to bank these experiences for gsmes to come.

Lads, lads
Let's all put a quid in each...send Gee (he's the only Saint amongst us so we can trust him with the cash) along to his local bookies and put it on a Scotland 41-Ireland 20 with 5pts and 4 pts respectively.
If it comes in we either go to Oz en-mass for the next Lions tour or we all pay this winter's leccy bills.

jimbopip wrote:Lads, lads
Let's all put a quid in each...send Gee (he's the only Saint amongst us so we can trust him with the cash) along to his local bookies and put it on a Scotland 41-Ireland 20 with 5pts and 4 pts respectively.
If it comes in we either go to Oz en-mass for the next Lions tour or we all pay this winter's leccy bills.

Confession - I did once get lost at the Middlesex sevens carrying the beer float.

By the time we got back to the club that night, most of it seemed to have been spent.

Fortunately no-one seem to have much memory of events the next day

I know it was only Romania, but I would be very tempted to start Watson after the weekend - he looked really powerful and still showed his old ability of breaking through tackles, we don't really have anyone else like him in the whole squad. If our lineout wasnt quite as shambolic as it is, id be tempted to play him and Darge together, but think we need Ritchie at 6 to give us another option.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Disgrace_of_Gij%C3%B3n


This is why at the Football World Cup the last fixtures are always played at the same time. Obviously not particularly feasible with 5 team groups.

RDW wrote:

EWT Spoons wrote:

All of this is largely irrelevant anyway, Ireland aren't the number one team in the world by fluke, they've repeatedly beaten the top teams to get to this position.  Across the side they don't have any obvious weaknesses and have a coach who is amongst the best in the world.  

The chances of Scotland getting a win while not letting Ireland get a LBP/TBP is the stuff of fantasy.  Look at the 6n, Ireland lost player after player and still got the better of us.  I know this is going to seem really negative, but I think we can give Ireland a game, we're just not at the level currently where we can win and beat the number one side in the world by a margin.  Just getting a win would be a huge result (and do wonders for our world ranking), but sadly not quite enough.

I hope we at least run Ireland close and make them work for their inevitable qualification.  Also, for the record I have no issue with Irish fans (although they largely haven't) taking about who they might face in the qtrs.  They would have to mess up significantly to let this slip away from them, and having faith in their team and coaches to not let that happen isn't so much as them writing us off, but more a confidence in their side, which given how they have performed over the last few years is more than justified.

I'm with Spoons on this alas

Just to clarify for the benefit of all Irish posters here, all Scotland fans who know anything about the game and are currently sober share this opinion. There are currently 10 full WR ranking points between the two sides in the world rankings table. That is a huge gap. Nothing about recent forms suggests that Scotland will win - nothing.

Scotland has a puncher's chance and that's it. The press will talk up the contest because they have to and there are links which need to be clicked but I don't think anyone is expecting much other than Ireland by 2 scores and some daylight.

On the arrogant point, I do want to say a few things, as someone who has been following the sport seriously for nearly 40 years: 1. All Irish supporters that I know personally are an absolute joy. 2. I have met at least half of the current Irish squad in person and have no problems with any of them. 3. Over the past 5 years, it has become so painful to read the crowing, jingoistic, condescending nonsense which the mainstream Irish sports TV and mainstream rugby press has come to produce that it has become unsufferable. I cannot read these articles in the Independent and Times any more which is a real shame because I used to love them.

I remember when Scotland 5 Nations games against Ireland used to be almost guaranteed wins. I enjoyed those wins but never thought that we were just 'better' automatically before we took the field. Unfortunately, the current mob of Irish rugby writers seem to have forgotten this and are behaving like the bitter school nerd who has just become a hedge fund manager and realises that female sportswear models are now interested in dating him and he really has to let the whole world know it. I am so pleased for the Irish team's success - it's lovely to see, truly.

Just that your press really need to stop talking down to everyone who isn't NZ and South Africa.

Tramptastic wrote:

tigertattie wrote:I’m just putting this out there

Imagine the video Rassie will produce if Scotland beat Ireland by 21 points and both teams score 4 tries

Can you imagine the sheer mass of salt produced by south african facebook commenters?

I would put that video out myself