England squad of 26 announced - Ashton and Ben Youngs dropped

by quinsforever Tue 28 Jan 2014, 8:14 pm

First topic message reminder :

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/rugby-union/25933506

Forwards: David Attwood (Bath Rugby), Dan Cole (Leicester Tigers), Dylan Hartley (Northampton Saints), Joe Launchbury (London Wasps), Courtney Lawes (Northampton Saints), Joe Marler (Harlequins), Ben Morgan (Gloucester Rugby), Matt Mullan (London Wasps), Chris Robshaw (Harlequins), Henry Thomas (Sale Sharks), Billy Vunipola (Saracens), Mako Vunipola (Saracens), Tom Wood (Northampton Saints), Tom Youngs (Leicester Tigers).

Backs: Brad Barritt (Saracens), Mike Brown (Harlequins), Luther Burrell (Northampton Saints), Danny Care (Harlequins), Lee Dickson (Northampton Saints), Owen Farrell (Saracens), George Ford (Bath Rugby), Alex Goode (Saracens), Jonny May (Gloucester Rugby), Jack Nowell (Exeter Chiefs), Billy Twelvetrees (Gloucester Rugby), Anthony Watson (Bath Rugby).

i am very pleased with the stability in the forwards, and the new blood in the backs. would love to see Burrell, May and Watson get gametime against France.

by Chjw131 Wed 29 Jan 2014, 7:10 pm

Scratch wrote:I admire the optimism i really do but would suggest France are not Argentina. With the picking of nowell and may there seems to have been a sudden reinvention of english rugby though it seems to rely on france playing ball and i hope they get the memo - the problems in the centres have now been forgotten because england have picked 2 hotshot wingers, just hope they see the ball.

England seem to remember everything and learn nothing, and it totally goes against everything we know about the way they play.

I imagine that sense will prevail and that in the heat of battle they will revert to type and that we are going to see a lot of pick and drive and then bringing wingers in as 1st/2nd receivers as the english pack drives up the middle....until England have established centres, pace on the wing seems to rely on getting the ball from french kicking and one wonders if hti sis what SL is hoping for.

A bit harsh I must say. England have transformed areas of their play since this coaching group has been together most notably the breakdown, maul and defence.

The point about the centres is valid indeed and I don't know whether I see 36/Burrell working that well but at least Twelvetrees can and will distribute and Burrell has actually shown some neat passing when he's played for Saints.

Pace on the wing was always required for Lancs Classic wing requirements and that's pretty much there now. It's all untested but if it performs well they'll have the whole championship to gel.

by WELL-PAST-IT Wed 29 Jan 2014, 7:30 pm

Do you get sore always scratching yourself.

Point one - No France are not Argentina, they are France and as such a complete unknown quantity. The comment was in reply to your thoughts that France will try and bomb the English wings, not my hopes that they do.

Point two - having two centres that can pass and the nearest thing the AP has to a Manu style 13, albeit he plays most of his rugby at 12 is not to say the problems have been forgotten, it just might be they have been solved. The thread is about Ashton and Youngs being dropped, not the Centre partnership. Stop trying to shift the attention away from your poor wummy arguments. The conditions will dictate how much ball they see the ball and the way the French play, see your thoughts about their kicking.

Surprisingly I sort of agree, we have been slow if not retarded in learning that the game plan of last year doesn't work. Except we have beaten the ABs with it and Australia on a fairly regular basis in the last couple of years. Something no other NH side has done. When it works, it works big time.

In the cold and rain, again you are correct, we will probably play a pragmatic game as would any side not managed by a something you do to an itchy spot. The question is will these new boys do what the old guard didn't and come looking for the pop pass off forwards driving up the middle. Established centres are not the problem, the game plan is and I suspect that someone called Farrell is the problem, just not sure which one.

Point four - you infer that England do not have or cannot make up their minds on and establish centre combo. The English centres are fairly established if it weren't for injuries, 36 and Manu or Barritt and Manu. One could argue the same for the Welsh as they rarely put out the same combo in successive games due to injury. Joseph covered 13, he also is injured, so how are England supposed to play an established centre partnership with 3 of 4 establish centres injured.

I would suggest that you depart to a sport that you know something about, unfortunately they do not have a tiddlywinks forum.

by yappysnap Wed 29 Jan 2014, 7:31 pm

I think we'll keep it tight to start, look to just hit France hard up front and get a few mauls and/or scrums under our belts. Once this has happened depending upon the weather we'll try to spread it wide and see what the new wings can do.

On the other hand last time we were in Paris with new backs Ashton scored his maiden try supplied by a beauty of a backs move inside the first few minutes of the game. Of course that was under the old coaching team who were apparently going backwards, forward orientated and didn't unlock Englands full potential, especially in attack...

by Scratch Wed 29 Jan 2014, 8:06 pm

WELL-PAST-IT wrote:Do you get sore always scratching yourself.

Only when i read this sort of rubbish from an English fan which is quite often this week.

Point one - No France are not Argentina, they are France and as such a complete unknown quantity. The comment was in reply to your thoughts that France will try and bomb the English wings, not my hopes that they do.

France are an unknown quantity. Really? What do we know about them, the cliche that they are mercurial, that if their heads go down up front they fold easily. That they are, ball in hand, absolutely irresistible and that their backs have flair that England can only dream of. If Eng are smart they will destroy their pack. Forwards win games.

Point two - having two centres that can pass and the nearest thing the AP has to a Manu style 13, albeit he plays most of his rugby at 12 is not to say the problems have been forgotten, it just might be they have been solved. The thread is about Ashton and Youngs being dropped, not the Centre partnership. Stop trying to shift the attention away from your poor wummy arguments. The conditions will dictate how much ball they see the ball and the way the French play, see your thoughts about their kicking.

If the thread is about Ashton and Youngs why are you banging on about wingers then?! And the problem is solved is it? England have one established centre in Tuilagi. Barrit shoudl be but now Burrell is Pick of the week. The rest are fill ins or newbies thus far and there is no comparison with Wales who have 3 centres in Roberts, Williams and Davies who are all 1st picks and have been for seasons. This leaves us open to strength and depth problems whereas England are completely different, can't make up their minds and are always trying out new players and their stregth in depth actually wors against them. How many players played for England last year?
Clearly the centre issue has rattled your cage though! Read your reply, i am not trying to shift the attention away from, but with, my argument and this is no WUM. Its cold hard fact that any observer knows is the problem England have faced year upon year, it is the height of ignorance or arrogance, not sure, to think the problems have been solved. And of course conditions dictate the game, except for England who always play a tight forward based game because they have had no real 12/13 axis for so long and have unlearned it. Yes when they get it right they do so in style but in the 6 Nations they get it wrong more often than not.

Surprisingly I sort of agree, we have been slow if not retarded in learning that the game plan of last year doesn't work. Except we have beaten the ABs with it and Australia on a fairly regular basis in the last couple of years. Something no other NH side has done. When it works, it works big time.

Slow and retarded, yep that kind of says it all.

In the cold and rain, again you are correct, we will probably play a pragmatic game as would any side not managed by a something you do to an itchy spot. The question is will these new boys do what the old guard didn't and come looking for the pop pass off forwards driving up the middle. Established centres are not the problem, the game plan is and I suspect that someone called Farrell is the problem, just not sure which one.

Correct? Yes i am. England don't know how to play behind their pack, they haven't since Greenwood. Tuilagi had addressed that to some extent with his power but he is very much a lone wolf in an English back line that lacks creativity at 10 and 12. And lets not hide behind anything, Farrell is the problem this week, England are picking newbies across the board yet England have a superb 10 in Cipriani who cant even get in the Saxons....i wonder why.

Point four - you infer that England do not have or cannot make up their minds on and establish centre combo. The English centres are fairly established if it weren't for injuries, 36 and Manu or Barritt and Manu. One could argue the same for the Welsh as they rarely put out the same combo in successive games due to injury. Joseph covered 13, he also is injured, so how are England supposed to play an established centre partnership with 3 of 4 establish centres injured.

Not the case. Manu is the only centre England know they want to pick. The rest of the time there is constant flux about selection and who shoudl play interspersed with new broom solutions. This week it's Burrell. Next week the selection will be shown up as not the way they want to go blah blah.

I would suggest that you depart to a sport that you know something about, unfortunately they do not have a tiddlywinks forum.

Frankly pathetic and your humour, like your understanding of your own team, is definitely well past it, you're about as funny as that rash you couldn't tell your mum about.

by tatterd Wed 29 Jan 2014, 9:16 pm

And............game Scratch!

by DeludedOptimistorjustDave Wed 29 Jan 2014, 9:30 pm

Brad71090 wrote:
beshocked wrote:
Brad71090 wrote:People are worried about having 2 uncapped wings start or May, but how can they get experience and if they are worried about starting them at that age? what about Farrell he was that young when he first started and hes a 10!

Farrell had won an AP title as the starting fly half. He had a lot more experience than Nowell.

Nowell and Watson, played in the J world cup final, that must count for something? May has been around for a while now, Ford has been in a prem final and played in Europe. They will all be fine they might make one mistake but who doesnt.

A field in ColwynBay is hardly high pressure rugby.

by lostinwales Wed 29 Jan 2014, 9:34 pm

Why is it that there are always more Welsh posters than English on these particular threads? What is the obsession?

by DeludedOptimistorjustDave Wed 29 Jan 2014, 9:37 pm

Maybe because more Welsh posters are on this forum? maybe they enjoy participating in all threads?
Maybe because that is what a forum is for?
You don't seem to be that nationalistic when selection policy is exercised for the England National team?

by gatlandgun Wed 29 Jan 2014, 9:42 pm

England have no familiarity, too many injuries to key players and tiny inexperienced backs.

They need to target Italy and Scotland as possible wins and maybe Ireland too.

6 points this season would be a success IMO.

by BigTrevsbigmac Wed 29 Jan 2014, 9:46 pm

Interesting that a lot of welsh fans acknowledge England probably have the strongest pack in the 6Ns yet we only have 2 Lions compared to Wales 6 in their probable starting 8?

by DeludedOptimistorjustDave Wed 29 Jan 2014, 10:14 pm

BigTrevsbigmac wrote:Interesting that a lot of welsh fans acknowledge England probably have the strongest pack in the 6Ns yet we only have 2 Lions compared to Wales 6 in their probable starting 8?

say it three times it might come true

by kingelderfield Wed 29 Jan 2014, 10:14 pm

Thankfully the weather looks set fare for Paris over the weekend, which should help both sides with it being the games biggest shop window.

I may be piddling in the well, however I am more certain than ever that we should drop the bomber sooner than later and install an RFU that has honest ambition for the success of the English rugby team rather than for their bonus culture profit margin. The RFU is nothing but a money making corporate and has long since left behind its reason.

by Scrumpy Wed 29 Jan 2014, 10:22 pm

Too soon to get rid of bomber just yet, plus it would be crazy to do so the year before the RWC

by kingelderfield Wed 29 Jan 2014, 10:49 pm

See how we go.....if we lose 3 or more games then I think you'll see opinions very quickly begin to change.

by Looseheaded Thu 30 Jan 2014, 4:28 am

beshocked wrote:
GloriousEmpire wrote:
GeordieFalcon wrote:
GloriousEmpire wrote:
GeordieFalcon wrote:
GloriousEmpire wrote:
GeordieFalcon wrote:GE so you think Burns performance on Saturday for the Saxons was worthy of a start for the full team on Saturday...wow. Let's see Farrell playing flat (take it on himself to do so and ignore orders if need be)...and that would improve things.

Twelvtrees missed a bad tackle but he shouldn't be judged only on that.

Farrell isn't capable of playing flat. He's too ponderous in his decision making. Watch him. It's robotic, predetermined stuff all the way and that's why he's so easy to shut down. He distributes when it just isn't on and isolates his inside backs in poor position or he kicks it away when there is space and he needs to go wide. His idea of "going wide" as well, which is all too familiar a problem with English pivots, is to hiff a wide loopy miss-out pass as far as he can reach, rather than allowing his back line to draw and pass to effect a simple overlap.

Of course he is....he does it for his club! ...

Mate i cant be a$$ed with your s$$t today....!

Club schmub. He can't do it at international level.

Can he not? No bother....whatever.

Well if he can, then there is no evidence of it whatsoever, in a quite a large number of tests now.

Still good enough to beat the god like ABs. Plus he was man of the match vs Scotland last year - glorious pass to Parling to score.

I think you're just bitter because Farrell was part of the England team who gave NZ one of their heaviest ever defeats.

Beshocked blindly defends overrated Sarries player shocker

by bedfordwelsh Thu 30 Jan 2014, 6:41 am

DeludedOptimistorjustDave wrote:
BigTrevsbigmac wrote:Interesting that a lot of welsh fans acknowledge England probably have the strongest pack in the 6Ns yet we only have 2 Lions compared to Wales 6 in their probable starting 8?

say it three times it might come true

England to have a strong pack they always do but for me the only one I would take over their Welsh counterparts is Lawes as he really does seem to be hitting his full potential at last, if Corbs was playing then I would take him as well.

Come the 9th of March I am loking forward to (hopefully) seeing the No8 cousins go head to head and for what its worth I would also play James against Cole but if Jenkins is fit then he will unfortunately start though he s not that bad an unfortunately.

by ChequeredJersey Thu 30 Jan 2014, 8:17 am

bedfordwelsh wrote:
DeludedOptimistorjustDave wrote:
BigTrevsbigmac wrote:Interesting that a lot of welsh fans acknowledge England probably have the strongest pack in the 6Ns yet we only have 2 Lions compared to Wales 6 in their probable starting 8?

say it three times it might come true

England to have a strong pack they always do but for me the only one I would take over their Welsh counterparts is Lawes as he really does seem to be hitting his full potential at last, if Corbs was playing then I would take him as well.

Come the 9th of March I am loking forward to (hopefully) seeing the No8 cousins go head to head and for what its worth I would also play James against Cole but if Jenkins is fit then he will unfortunately start though he s not that bad an unfortunately.

Likewise right now whilst I accept that some of the players are possibly better than ours, the only Welsh forwards I'd bring in would be on the bench.

by Geordie Thu 30 Jan 2014, 8:39 am

Farrell is the problem this week, England are picking newbies across the board yet England have a superb 10 in Cipriani who cant even get in the Saxons....i wonder why.

Scratch...erm because he was more bothered about the glitzy lifestyle than knuckling down and improving the huge part of his game that needed massive work...and hes hardly...SUPERB!

Beshocked blindly defends overrated Sarries player shocker

Looseheaded...im defending him aswell...who else should start at 10?

Cipriani? No thanks has to prove consistancy for a season and that he wont self destruct which hes always capable of doing

Ford? Should be starting in the Saxons to see how he goes.
Burns? Just watch last weeks Saxons game to work that one out!

Plus add in the fact we're playing May, Nowell and Burrell maybe Farrells experience and solidity is the answer.

You never know he might play flatter and show that whilst he's never going to be an exhilerating runner he is still capable of getting teams to attack.

by ChequeredJersey Thu 30 Jan 2014, 8:42 am

If Farrell isn't sparking attacks, let's let Care do that (he's good at it and it will make him more comfortable to play like that) and Farrell can focus on his strengths. The 10 doesn't HAVE to be the playmaker, better if he is but it's not like we have no alternative if he doesn't player flatter

by Geordie Thu 30 Jan 2014, 8:52 am

Very valid point CJ, one i have suggested on previous threads.

by beshocked Thu 30 Jan 2014, 8:58 am

Looseheaded wrote:
beshocked wrote:
GloriousEmpire wrote:
GeordieFalcon wrote:
GloriousEmpire wrote:
GeordieFalcon wrote:
GloriousEmpire wrote:
GeordieFalcon wrote:GE so you think Burns performance on Saturday for the Saxons was worthy of a start for the full team on Saturday...wow. Let's see Farrell playing flat (take it on himself to do so and ignore orders if need be)...and that would improve things.

Twelvtrees missed a bad tackle but he shouldn't be judged only on that.

Farrell isn't capable of playing flat. He's too ponderous in his decision making. Watch him. It's robotic, predetermined stuff all the way and that's why he's so easy to shut down. He distributes when it just isn't on and isolates his inside backs in poor position or he kicks it away when there is space and he needs to go wide. His idea of "going wide" as well, which is all too familiar a problem with English pivots, is to hiff a wide loopy miss-out pass as far as he can reach, rather than allowing his back line to draw and pass to effect a simple overlap.

Of course he is....he does it for his club! ...

Mate i cant be a$$ed with your s$$t today....!

Club schmub. He can't do it at international level.

Can he not? No bother....whatever.

Well if he can, then there is no evidence of it whatsoever, in a quite a large number of tests now.

Still good enough to beat the god like ABs. Plus he was man of the match vs Scotland last year - glorious pass to Parling to score.

I think you're just bitter because Farrell was part of the England team who gave NZ one of their heaviest ever defeats.

Beshocked blindly defends overrated Sarries player shocker

Do you even know what overrated means? More like underrated and underappreciated because they are not your flashy style over substance types.

Blindly defend? Not at all. I resent that comment. I know the strengths and flaws of all Saracens players. At least I actually acknowledge their positive points.

I know exactly why certain players are unpopular. Farrell is criticised for not getting a backline running properly and not being a running threat. There is of course some justifiable criticism deserved but some ignorant armchair pundits fail to acknowledge that Farrell is not the only factor in the backline misfiring. Plus they ignore Farrell's strengths like his goal kicking, his powerful defence and his tenacity/strength of character.

Goode is perceived as too slow and doesn't make enough impact in attack. Again there is some credibility to that thought process but it's not as simple as that. Goode is still one of the best full backs in England - he has a good rugby brain. He's been in good club form this season. Shouldn't be ahead of Brown at the moment but doesn't mean he should be labelled as rubbish as some people see him.

Ashton is perceived as a defensive liability - fair enough comment but his high try strike rate is generally ignored. Try strike rate is still higher than George North at international level for example. At club level he is secondly only to his club mate in total tries scored this season in all competitions with 11. Plus when you compare him to Nowell, there is no contest - Ashton is far more experienced with far more tries. Okay he doesn't beat men like Nowell does but when the two men faced in the AP - Ashton won the battle of the wingers by setting up the decisive try in the game. Ashton has scored key try tries like vs Leicester and Quins for example too.

by Brad71090 Thu 30 Jan 2014, 9:06 am

DeludedOptimistorjustDave wrote:
Brad71090 wrote:
beshocked wrote:
Brad71090 wrote:People are worried about having 2 uncapped wings start or May, but how can they get experience and if they are worried about starting them at that age? what about Farrell he was that young when he first started and hes a 10!

Farrell had won an AP title as the starting fly half. He had a lot more experience than Nowell.

Nowell and Watson, played in the J world cup final, that must count for something? May has been around for a while now, Ford has been in a prem final and played in Europe. They will all be fine they might make one mistake but who doesnt.
A field in ColwynBay is hardly high pressure rugby.

Yes it is. A world cup is a high pressure game.

by Dubbelyew L Overate Thu 30 Jan 2014, 9:13 am

Brad71090 wrote:
DeludedOptimistorjustDave wrote:
Brad71090 wrote:
beshocked wrote:
Brad71090 wrote:People are worried about having 2 uncapped wings start or May, but how can they get experience and if they are worried about starting them at that age? what about Farrell he was that young when he first started and hes a 10!

Farrell had won an AP title as the starting fly half. He had a lot more experience than Nowell.

Nowell and Watson, played in the J world cup final, that must count for something? May has been around for a while now, Ford has been in a prem final and played in Europe. They will all be fine they might make one mistake but who doesnt.
A field in ColwynBay is hardly high pressure rugby.

Yes it is. A world cup is a high pressure game.

It also wasn't a World Cup in Colwyn Bay, that was J6N decider - JWC was held in France..

by beshocked Thu 30 Jan 2014, 9:21 am

Dubbelyew L Overate wrote:
Brad71090 wrote:
DeludedOptimistorjustDave wrote:
Brad71090 wrote:
beshocked wrote:
Brad71090 wrote:People are worried about having 2 uncapped wings start or May, but how can they get experience and if they are worried about starting them at that age? what about Farrell he was that young when he first started and hes a 10!

Farrell had won an AP title as the starting fly half. He had a lot more experience than Nowell.

Nowell and Watson, played in the J world cup final, that must count for something? May has been around for a while now, Ford has been in a prem final and played in Europe. They will all be fine they might make one mistake but who doesnt.
A field in ColwynBay is hardly high pressure rugby.

Yes it is. A world cup is a high pressure game.

It also wasn't a World Cup in Colwyn Bay, that was J6N decider - JWC was held in France..

I wouldn't quite compare it to playing France in France in a 6 nations opener! This is not U20s anymore. I would say that a LV match involving two of the stronger sides is higher quality than an U20s final.

by No 7&1/2 Thu 30 Jan 2014, 9:47 am

Well France are giving a debut to a 22 year old at fly half and another 22 year old who made his debut in the full world cup final. Surely those worried about our new starters are now favouring England again?

by beshocked Thu 30 Jan 2014, 10:09 am

After seeing Jean-Marc Doussain playing very well against Sarries and being in a winning side I am not so sure. Plus both those youngsters will have home advantage.

by WELL-PAST-IT Thu 30 Jan 2014, 10:15 am

Team confirmed, Torygraph correct again.

England: Brown (Harlequins); Nowell (Exeter Chiefs), Burrell (Northampton), Twelvetrees (Gloucester), May (Gloucester); Farrell (Saracens), Care (Harlequins); Marler (Harlequins), Hartley (Northampton), Cole (Leicester), Launchbury (Wasps), Lawes (Northampton), Wood (Northampton), Robshaw (Harlequins), B Vunipola (Saracens). Reps: T Youngs (Leicester), M Vunipola (Saracens), Thomas (Sale), Attwood (Bath), Morgan (Gloucester), Dickson (Northampton), Barritt, Goode (both Saracens)

Now let the wumming start in ernest

by No 7&1/2 Thu 30 Jan 2014, 10:18 am

They're probably saying the same thing about Nowell and Toulon.

by Peter Seabiscuit Wheeler Thu 30 Jan 2014, 10:31 am

No 7&1/2 wrote:They're probably saying the same thing about Nowell and Toulon.

More likely " why Nowell who missed loads of tackles and not Arscott who did far more in both games"

by No 7&1/2 Thu 30 Jan 2014, 10:55 am

You rate Arscott more highly than Nowell? Think you're probably in the minority.

by yappysnap Thu 30 Jan 2014, 11:02 am

Did Nowell miss loads of tackles?

by Bathman_in_London Thu 30 Jan 2014, 11:03 am

One has been a contender for a premiership XV for the last few years and one has only just started playing 1st team rugby. Nowell will probably end up being better than Arscott, but the latter is hardly a bad player.

I think Arscott should have been capped on the Argie tour, but that's another story...

by Peter Seabiscuit Wheeler Thu 30 Jan 2014, 11:03 am

Look if we are judging a players readiness for competitive test rugby solely on the basis that hes twice been on the losing side to Toulon then yes.

by Peter Seabiscuit Wheeler Thu 30 Jan 2014, 11:06 am

yappysnap wrote:Did Nowell miss loads of tackles?

*checks espn stats*

3 ...although to be fair he did make quite a few. But thats plenty enough to get Ashton dropped (who has a better scoring record for England during his slump than Nowell does at club level)

by No 7&1/2 Thu 30 Jan 2014, 11:17 am

I've said plenty of times I'd have started with Ashton in this game but I don't hold this fear of Nowell having a shocker. If applying the same standards against the French choices we should be confident.

by Dubbelyew L Overate Thu 30 Jan 2014, 11:18 am

No 7&1/2 wrote:You rate Arscott more highly than Nowell? Think you're probably in the minority.

As a Chiefs fan, I must be in the minority too, but, at the grand old age of 29, Luke's time has passed, unfortunately, and he doesn't play wing (may have done for Bris or Albion in the past, though). To be fair, though, Jack was outstanding in the first Toulon game, Luke in the second and despite missing 2 tackles in each game, Jack still made 5 times as many as did Luke. Both games were lost, though, and that's the stat that matters.

by LuvSports! Thu 30 Jan 2014, 11:23 am

I haven't seen much of nowell, bar a few clips, but he is yet to score a try this season correct?

by Cumbrian Thu 30 Jan 2014, 11:27 am

Did I read that right? France are playing a DEBUTANT at flyhalf? Are they mad? They're doomed! Very Happy

by Dubbelyew L Overate Thu 30 Jan 2014, 11:29 am

Yep, he was injured till late November so has played only 6, perhaps 7 games. Chiefs don't let their backs score, though, they're only there to give a scoring pass to a forward.

by munkian Thu 30 Jan 2014, 11:32 am

#AngloFrenchConspiracy

by Brad71090 Thu 30 Jan 2014, 12:27 pm

Are the people against Nowell England fans? Aston has been poor for so long, missed many tackles that have led to tries so what have we got to lose?

by Peter Seabiscuit Wheeler Thu 30 Jan 2014, 12:33 pm

Brad71090 wrote:Are the people against Nowell England fans? Aston has been poor for so long, missed many tackles that have led to tries so what have we got to lose?

The game?

Our best try scoring back since Robinson retired?

by Alex_Germany Thu 30 Jan 2014, 12:35 pm

Brad71090 wrote:Are the people against Nowell England fans? Aston has been poor for so long, missed many tackles that have led to tries so what have we got to lose?

Tricky one.

On the one hand, he seems to have found his club form this season - top try scorer in the Heineken Cup so far.

On the other hand, he's been too average for England too long, and had his last chance in the Autumn.

What probably swung it was that Nowell looks good. And Watson looks really promising. And that's even before Yarde and Wade come back from injury.

Given England were playing a full back at wing last year, one could say the situation is a lot better now.

by lostinwales Thu 30 Jan 2014, 12:36 pm

Ashton is very good at scoring tries, but not with the current version of England.

by nobbled Thu 30 Jan 2014, 1:19 pm

Not sorry that Ashton isn't starting. Sorry he never achieved his potential for whatever reason.
I'm confident that the new boys will do just fine. After all - Ashton started very well...

by Chjw131 Thu 30 Jan 2014, 2:19 pm

quinsforever wrote:
Chjw131 wrote:All the talk is Nowell to start at 14. Also looks like Care will start at 9.

Can we roll this thread into the France v England one?
nowell at 14 would be okay. he loves to counterattack. and care does deserve his shot at 9 the way he's been playing for us.

this thread is about england only. just like there is one about the french squad. not sure they should both be merged onto the matchday soon-to-be-bunfight threads

Sad to say it looks like this one has gone that way.

by belovedfrosties Thu 30 Jan 2014, 2:20 pm

Ashton has been rubbish in an england shirt for the last 2 seasons. Everyone appears to be worried that Nowell might be rubbish, he also might not be, whereas we know that Ashton will be. It's a no brainer for me, stick with the guy who is crap (for england) or go with the guy who might be crap but who also might be a wonder kid.

PSW is right that no-one is ever happy, SL has started picking on form and a bunch of you are in uproar that he's capping exciting young players playing well. For his his lack of tries Nowell does a hell of a lot more, he consistently makes breaks, makes his tackles and beats defenders, just because he doesn't goal hang and stroll in easy tries doesn't make him a bad player.

by Chjw131 Thu 30 Jan 2014, 2:24 pm

belovedfrosties wrote:Ashton has been rubbish in an england shirt for the last 2 seasons. Everyone appears to be worried that Nowell might be rubbish, he also might not be, whereas we know that Ashton will be. It's a no brainer for me, stick with the guy who is crap (for england) or go with the guy who might be crap but who also might be a wonder kid.

PSW is right that no-one is ever happy, SL has started picking on form and a bunch of you are in uproar that he's capping exciting young players playing well. For his his lack of tries Nowell does a hell of a lot more, he consistently makes breaks, makes his tackles and beats defenders, just because he doesn't goal hang and stroll in easy tries doesn't make him a bad player.

Agree. Ultimately the controversy is over one selection, the others were all inevitable. Were this three years ago under MJ we'd have been slating the whole team. I still recall Tindall/Hape etc..

by ChequeredJersey Thu 30 Jan 2014, 2:27 pm

Sorry for some awful music

15- https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0wEeKJaJPpA&list=LLOQ-Bf5hiMl4zl4BPL9EOWA
14- https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IOgA2CO4u-w
13- https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oygCzx7OzlU
12- No highlights that I can find...
11- https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A4NARSk-Fgk
10- https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=au2oPkP1bgA
9- https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qXsLosJyIUc&list=LLOQ-Bf5hiMl4zl4BPL9EOWA

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