Scotland v England, Murrayfield, Sat 8th Feb, 17:00

First topic message reminder :

Thought I'd start a thread to discuss next weeks game.

ENGLAND

England head coach Stuart Lancaster has kept faith with the side which lost to France and named an unchanged line-up for Saturday's match against Scotland.
Gloucester's Jonny May starts on the wing despite breaking his nose nine minutes into the 26-24 loss in Paris.
Courtney Lawes will be in the second row after his cheekbone bruising eased, while Danny Care and Owen Farrell form the half-back partnership.
"They're determined to put last week's result behind them," said Lancaster.
England will be hoping to avoid a third successive Test defeat, having lost to New Zealand in the autumn and France in the opening weekend of the Six Nations.
Scotland, however, were well beaten by Ireland on Sunday have not prevailed in the Calcutta Cup since their 15-9 win at Murrayfield in 2008.
"Scotland will be hugely motivated by their defeat in Dublin and, as we found two years ago, Murrayfield is a tough place to play," added Lancaster, who began his England reign with a 13-6 win against Scotland in 2012.
May is not expected to wear a protective face mask when he wins his third cap in Edinburgh.
Luther Burrell, who scored on his debut at the Stade de France, will make his second Test appearance at centre, while Jack Nowell takes up the right-wing spot for what will also be his second cap.
Wasps prop Matt Mullan will travel as the 24th man.

England XI v Scotland: Mike Brown (Harlequins, 22 caps), Jack Nowell (Exeter Chiefs, 1 cap), Luther Burrell (Northampton Saints, 1 cap), Billy Twelvetrees (Gloucester Rugby, 9 caps), Jonny May (Gloucester Rugby, 2 caps), Owen Farrell (Saracens, 20 caps), Danny Care (Harlequins, 43 caps), Joe Marler (Harlequins, 16 caps), Dylan Hartley (Northampton Saints, 51 caps), Dan Cole (Leicester Tigers, 44 caps), Joe Launchbury (London Wasps, 15 caps), Courtney Lawes (Northampton Saints, 26 caps), Tom Wood (Northampton Saints, 24 caps), Chris Robshaw (Harlequins, capt, 21 caps), Billy Vunipola (Saracens, 6 caps)
Replacements: Tom Youngs (Leicester Tigers, 13 caps), Mako Vunipola (Saracens, 11 caps), Henry Thomas (Sale Sharks, 2 caps), Dave Attwood (Bath Rugby, 6 caps), Ben Morgan (Gloucester Rugby, 16 caps), Lee Dickson (Northampton Saints, 13 caps), Brad Barritt (Saracens, 17 caps), Alex Goode (Saracens, 14 caps)

Scotland

Scots team:

1.grant
2.ford
3.low
4.swinson
5.hamilton
6.wilson
7.fusaro
8.denton
9.laidlaw
10.weir
11.lamont
12.scott
13.dunbar
14.seymor
15 hogg

Rather than replacing May on the wing, just give him a slightly more aerodynamic version of Harinordoquy's mask and tell him to suck it up and get on with it, see what he's really made of.

The last two games for England, both losses, have followed a pattern:

First quarter is dreadful and England fall way behind.
Second and third quarters are magnificent and England inch their way into a lead after a herculean effort.
Fourth quarter is rather disappointing. England run out of steam and lose.

Come on England - let's start from the first whistle, as opposed to waiting until we're 16-3 down!

Jonny May is apparently cleared to play

hugehandoff wrote:I hope that SL and his coaches learn from Paris and stop this automatic use of the subs. I agree that Webber should be on the bench, but obviosly there will be no changes and we can only hope that Youngs throws his darts a bit better this time. The combo with Mako Vunipola does not work. We keep losing the scrums as we saw in the Lions series as well. Even more reason for Webber to be there. Last yeasr we all agreed that Farrell, Barrit and Manu were just not creative enough and that 36 had to come in. I have been hugely disappointed in 36 as has everyone else and now think that Barrit may be the better option. He has come back looking fit and has played well for Sarries. However, there is something to say for continuity so I won't complain too much if 36 has another crack. If it is not working out then take him off and move on. I would probably prefer Eastmond in there with Burrell and later with Manu, but I know that his defence would be questioned. But I would at least like to see Eastmond on the bench. Give Nowell another crack as he showed character to come back into it and start Watson if May unfit. The reasons for dropping Ashton are still valid.

As for Scotland.....pray for wind and rain and just smash into us with all your hearts. You have turned us over before and with real desire you can do it again. A scrappy arm wrestle could just see you home.

Hugeh,
thanks for that encouragement but I fear it will take more than that - we are sliding away into complete and utter mediocrity at best. A succession of awful coaches have done it and spoiled some decent players in the process. Now Maitland is out that takes 50% of our attack away, leaving Stuart Hogg to do his best - he always gives that at least. Very dark days for rugby in Scotland.

Good news about May. You would expect him to play and he deserves his chance.

Very dark days for rugby in Scotland.

In my opinion its mostly selection issues though.

Hamilton and Swinson should not be together.
Swinson and Gray would be better

The back row..you have some class players...and as mentioned a back row of say Brown, Barclay and Denton would be far better, balanced and competitive.

You must have a better hooker than Ford. How has it become that so many hookers this day cant throw!!!!!

You have some very good props ...just need to pick the right ones.

Aye Geordie but he will not pick them or the 3 Bs. Johnson is another in the long line of dunces who have just about destroyed Scotland as a rugby nation. There are 4 hookers at Glasgow (MacArthur, Hall, Brown and Bryce) all better than Ford but, no he will be in the 23 on Saturday you can put your wages on that.
I'm ashamed to say I gave my tickets away today to 2 wendyball fans (one Sellik and the other Govannedyboys to put it in the ahem ...vernacular) who have never been to a rugby match before. I did warn them it will be a doing we get but they are going along to join in the Mexican wave, which 60% of the Murrayfield crowd like performing on a regular basis. I suppose it beats watching the dross on the field !

Gave your tickets away and never thought of ASBO or TTRRN or FES or RDW or dare I say it my own humble self. You better hope that my serotonin levels are high next time we're in the Scout hut. Actually forget all the other feckers, bar ASBO, they're luvvies and would be too busy comparing Burberries with stockbrokers from Cheam to watch the game. Yes I know it will be 80 minutes of watching kittens being barbecued but still...

Jonny May available for Scots game, get in. I'd start Barritt and have Watson on the bench.

Well two 'burds' at work got them and I am thinking of your health and wellbeing - ASBO met one at the Hydro.

very pleased May can have another shot. 6 mins and a broken nose would have been a pretty poor return for his efforts!

He loves Murrayfield https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RGajryagpQ8#t=44

that pitch looked really soft and cut up. is that going to be the case on sunday? given scotlands loss of maitland and inability to capitalise on possession on sunday in the first half, wouldnt surprise me if they let it get a bit soggy underfoot. i would.

May's fine? I hope Lancaster persists with the same selection as Saturday.

quinsforever wrote:that pitch looked really soft and cut up. is that going to be the case on sunday? given scotlands loss of maitland and inability to capitalise on possession on sunday in the first half, wouldnt surprise me if they let it get a bit soggy underfoot. i would.

I don't think that would necessarily work against us. We've got a big set of players in midfield as well as the Vunipolas of the world. So long as it's not tipping it down on the actual day.

“If we do stick with a largely unchanged side, which I think would be the right thing to do, then I need all those other players to go back and play well for their clubs this weekend because everything will be up for grabs against Ireland in the next match,” Lancaster said.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/rugbyunion/international/england/10615647/Six-Nations-2014-England-boost-as-Jonny-May-is-passed-fit-to-face-Scotland-in-Calcutta-Cup.html


I wonder if the essential message in the EPS since before the weekend has been that they wanted to give those selected back-to-back games to make their case but they might consider something different for the third after the break and double week of training.

Bring back the B's

The pitch is going to be dreadful on Saturday. About as robust as the skin on a rice pudding. Also looking at the forecast it's meant to rain all day in Edinburgh on Saturday. Mud wrestling here we come!

I'm really not posting much here any more, but thought I'd drop in my two cents about the France game and our selection policy for the Scotland game.

Overall, as most people have said, there are more positives to take away than negatives. The most frustrating issue is England's slow start again, just as we saw against New Zealand in the Autumn. I believe that you create your own luck, so France deserved their two tries however fortuitous the bounces may have been. I think 36 was incredibly unlucky regarding the first try seeing as he got a hand to the ball, but sometimes the small margins go against you. I thought England looked excellent between about the 20 and 70 minute mark, but it wasn't enough to overcome the stagnant start. Strong carries from all the players were moving the ball over the gain line every time, and Care's quick service was just what we needed. The defence got better throughout the game despite being too narrow in the early stages, and the quick line speed shut out danger players like Fofana and Bastareaud.

Goode's pretty pathetic attempted tackle on Huget for the second try isn't good enough for an international fullback, and to be honest bar one or two decent moments, I found him underwhelming the entire game and I didn't have much confidence in him coming off the bench to replace the unfortunate May.

The pack performed excellently around the park, and really took it to the French the entire game. Even against the 6 forward replacements I think we gained parity. NB, I thought Nyanga and Burban we superb in the French back row. Cole struggled in the scrum greatly, and this is a real concern because of the absence of Wilson. However, his breakdown work was decent as we've all come to expect. Marler struggled less, and I actually thought he had probably his best game in the loose for England. His carrying was really good, but his defence was on another level- he put some huge hits in.

Lawes and Launchbury did what they do. Lineout was very decent, and their work around the park was gargantuan.

Wood didn't have his best or most conspicuous game, but he was always there to make the tackle and provided an aggressive edge. Robshaw was excellent- some of his best carrying i've seen.

I think 36 is coming in for some harsh criticism. People really seem to be holding one missed tackle against Australia against him, and conveniently forgetting that he took 3 defenders with him for his score against Argentina. He also carried aggressively against France, as well as holding Bastareaud and probably the best 12 in the NH to negligible yardage. I wholly agree that he ruined a promising overlap, and butchered a chance with some crud passing, but at the moment I think he is our best option. Barritt for some reason is being painted as the saviour to our centre problems, but to me is just a close-down centre, which 36 has proved he can be too.

Nowell was an interesting one. A dire start with that knock-on which led to the opening try, as well as getting turned over 2 or 3 times when he tried to do too much. Regardless, I saw enough from him to merit another start for certain. He had that fantastic catch and run when he snatched the ball from Dulin, as well as a couple of really boisterous runs. Like Mike Brown, he refuses to go down as initial contact and he made some excellent yardage. His tackling was also excellent- I'd almost forgotten to see what it was like to see a winger make a successful tackle. Mistakes he did make, but he deserves another start.

We missed May's pace on the other wing, especially in chasing kicks. Brown stood in admirably in his place, but for goodness sake he's an outstanding full back, play him there.

Anyway, as I said there are a lot of positives to take away from the game, but some areas of our game that need some serious work, both on a team scale and at an individual level.

I'm looking forward to the Scotland game. Hoping for the same starting 15, but a more dynamic bench.

Just seen some stats on the RFU website which backs up my impression that Nowell grew into the game and will offer much more as he gains experience:

14 tackles without a miss (2nd in team), 8 carries, 6 over gainline, 1 clean break

That's not mentioning that he made the most metres. 14 tackles for a new winger, one at least on a beast of a no.8 is great.

Eddie...where you been.

Good summary

GeordieFalcon wrote:Eddie...where you been.

Good summary

Cheers GF, good to see you still posting here, and on the weightlifting forum.

New stricter browsing rules at work I'm afraid! It means I actually have to work now. Sad times.

A mudbath is probably Scotland's best chance sadly. Assuming that's the case then Jim Hamilton may get a reprieve, although I'd like to see Richie Gray replacing him personally (regardless of the forecast).

The other mudbath specialist is Ali Strokosch, who specialist skills at blindside would certainly be more effective than Ryan Wilson out of position. Wilson would be ideal for a hard dry track. He's fast, mobile and skillful. Not what we'll need on Saturday if the heavens open.

I think the main question for SJ is whether to select a side to play rugby and build for the future, or does he view this as a one-off game and aim to simply negate England (as McGeechan did back in 2000 by sticking Jason White at openside and ordering the backs not to attempt any pass of more than 2 metres).

I personally think we need to think beyond a series of one-off fixtures. Whilst it's tempting to look at the forecast for this one and seek to simply pick the biggest pack possible with instructions to do as little with the ball as humanly possible and wait for England to make mistakes, I don't actually think that'll do us any favours. The worst outcome is that we go negative, and still lose the game. Yes, play to the conditions, but that doesn't mean we can't be more effective in attack and look to take the game to England.

FeS, what's happened to Strokosch? I thought he was injured until I saw him run on with the water. I was confused with Wilson's selection at 6, and to be honest I was a little underwhelmed with him. I thought Beattie looked very good when he came on, so would look to start him on Saturday.

I think we'll see 6. Beattie 7. Brown 8. One direction Denton

I'd rather we saw 6. Brown 7. Barclay/Rennie/Fusaro 8. Beattie

I'd happily see Strokosch start against us, especially if Brown has to play 7

Didn't really watch too much of Ireland v Scotland but heard that Brown didn't quite get to grips with the breakdown. Is he maligned in the way people said about Robshaw (not a 7 etc)?

My main point isn't so much that I think Brown is a poor 7, but if Stroks plays, Brown as captain has to start at 7 and then Barclay can't play

I wouldn't say Brown is maligned. He's highly regarded in Scotland, and we certainly don't blame him for getting picked at 7. He's a good player, even at 7. The problem we have is that we have some good options at openside (Barclay, Rennie, Cowan and Fusaro), three of whom are fully fit and playing well (Rennie has recently had time off due to family bereavement). Accordingly there's no need to move Brown to 7. Brown is a top quality blindside flanker, a nice blend of tree cutter/fetcher, and his ball carrying skills are much improved since he moved to Sarries. With a proper out and out fetcher at 7, he could form a really competitive combination. We know this because he's done so in the past with both Barclay and Rennie.

To compound matters we have Murray Low and Jim Hamilton also in the pack. When you add these two to the fact that we don't have a proper openside, what you get is a pack without balance. A pack that can't compete on the floor with the best sides.

It's all too easy to simplify this into blaming Kelly Brown at 7, but that's clearly not the point. Scott Johnson is picking the side, and he doesn't seem to grasp, or at least be able to articulate, why he persists in picking his flankers out of position and fail in finding a good balance to the pack.

We keep making the same mistakes, and that's what annoys me. Defeat I can hack, frankly with the best team selection in the world I don't think we'd have beaten Ireland at the Aviva, but I don't think we're giving ourselves the best chance. That is what annoys me.

I'd agree that SL probably doesn't need to change much, assuming May is passed fit to play. I suspect he'll go with the same team for the sake of continuity.

He'll probably be less trigger happy with the subs, but that'll come down to the game situation.

England are clear favourites, which is probably the most positive thing from a Scots perspective. It doesn't help us that England were ultimately defeated in Paris however. This really is "must win" for England, so we'll have to be at the very top of our game to keep up.

Tough assignment coming up on Saturday, no question.

I assume England will go with the same team. This could be a very different game from last weeks where two teams committed to throw the ball around. England should not get sucked into Scotlands game plan and need to back their tempo. The box kicks need to be better as does the scrum.

If we play like we did last week from 35 mins to 70 mins, this should be a win, but taking nothing for granted.

Scotland need Matt Scott back to create something for Hogg. Their lineout needs improvement as does the scrum, if they lose these two set pieces unfortunately they don't have the firepower elsewhere to make up for it. What exactly is your forwards coach teaching.........?

It doesn't suite the Scots being favorites in this fixture they'll be happier being the underdogs.

It won't be easy but England should come through   , although saying that I wouldn't be that surprised if there isn't much in it either way going into the final minutes.

bluestonevedder wrote:I'm really not posting much here any more, but thought I'd drop in my two cents about the France game and our selection policy for the Scotland game.

Overall, as most people have said, there are more positives to take away than negatives. The most frustrating issue is England's slow start again, just as we saw against New Zealand in the Autumn. I believe that you create your own luck, so France deserved their two tries however fortuitous the bounces may have been. I think 36 was incredibly unlucky regarding the first try seeing as he got a hand to the ball, but sometimes the small margins go against you. I thought England looked excellent between about the 20 and 70 minute mark, but it wasn't enough to overcome the stagnant start. Strong carries from all the players were moving the ball over the gain line every time, and Care's quick service was just what we needed. The defence got better throughout the game despite being too narrow in the early stages, and the quick line speed shut out danger players like Fofana and Bastareaud.

Goode's pretty pathetic attempted tackle on Huget for the second try isn't good enough for an international fullback, and to be honest bar one or two decent moments, I found him underwhelming the entire game and I didn't have much confidence in him coming off the bench to replace the unfortunate May.

The pack performed excellently around the park, and really took it to the French the entire game. Even against the 6 forward replacements I think we gained parity. NB, I thought Nyanga and Burban we superb in the French back row. Cole struggled in the scrum greatly, and this is a real concern because of the absence of Wilson. However, his breakdown work was decent as we've all come to expect. Marler struggled less, and I actually thought he had probably his best game in the loose for England. His carrying was really good, but his defence was on another level- he put some huge hits in.

Lawes and Launchbury did what they do. Lineout was very decent, and their work around the park was gargantuan.

Wood didn't have his best or most conspicuous game, but he was always there to make the tackle and provided an aggressive edge. Robshaw was excellent- some of his best carrying i've seen.

I think 36 is coming in for some harsh criticism. People really seem to be holding one missed tackle against Australia against him, and conveniently forgetting that he took 3 defenders with him for his score against Argentina. He also carried aggressively against France, as well as holding Bastareaud and probably the best 12 in the NH to negligible yardage. I wholly agree that he ruined a promising overlap, and butchered a chance with some crud passing, but at the moment I think he is our best option. Barritt for some reason is being painted as the saviour to our centre problems, but to me is just a close-down centre, which 36 has proved he can be too.

Nowell was an interesting one. A dire start with that knock-on which led to the opening try, as well as getting turned over 2 or 3 times when he tried to do too much. Regardless, I saw enough from him to merit another start for certain. He had that fantastic catch and run when he snatched the ball from Dulin, as well as a couple of really boisterous runs. Like Mike Brown, he refuses to go down as initial contact and he made some excellent yardage. His tackling was also excellent- I'd almost forgotten to see what it was like to see a winger make a successful tackle. Mistakes he did make, but he deserves another start.

We missed May's pace on the other wing, especially in chasing kicks. Brown stood in admirably in his place, but for goodness sake he's an outstanding full back, play him there.

Anyway, as I said there are a lot of positives to take away from the game, but some areas of our game that need some serious work, both on a team scale and at an individual level.

I'm looking forward to the Scotland game. Hoping for the same starting 15, but a more dynamic bench.

I could almost have written the above word for word.

Brown did pretty well when moved to the wing, but he is much better at fullback. Goode on the other hand just doesn't have the pace to be a really good international back 3 player - a tolerable fullback, but can not play on the wing.. The back replacements really have to change for Saturday - both Nowell and May have experience at 15, so it should be either a specialist winger or versatile back 3 player rather than Goode. OK, circumstances on Saturday, that required him to replace a winger after 5 minutes were more bad luck than anything else, but it's rugby and injuries happen.

Barritt similarly is not a good choice for the bench - a solid defensive 12, but doesn't really cover 10 or 13 to any great extent. He's a starter or nothing. Eastmond may not be as solid, and I wouldn't necessarily want him on the field froim the start, but for the last 20 minutes he could be very useful at 12 or 13 and I believe has played a bit at 10, although would only be emergency cover there.

Also, would have Youngs ahead of Dickson, regardless of form. More similar to Care, and tends to inject pace off the bench.

At some point SL has to give Eastmonds a go, we know what Barritt and Goode have to offer they can both be solid on their day but is that enough when you want to win championships or RWCs?

I agree Eastmond probably isn't ready to start a England game but from the bench he could soon cause problems for the opposition in the dying embers of games.

I think we need to see Daly in the equation. 1st as a 13...but he can also cover 15, and probably do a job on the wing or at 12 - if it got really dire...which ending with Burrell on the wing was. He's also a cracking kicker.

Eastmond or Daly...

Bench I see as being quite a balanced set:

Dickson (though I wish Youngs), Ford/Eastmond, Watson/Eastmond

Basically either Ford or Eastmond as 22 and Watson/Eastmond as 23.

Daly could come into it but as he's not in the squad unfortunately it's unlikely.

Assuming May actually plays - is this a good idea with a broken snozzell? - I doubt Stewie will change anything. Including the bench & substitutions. The only difference to the French game will be May stays on for maybe 10 minutes this time. And we'll get a proper 'UK-standard' ball.

Bloody French and their bloody rugby balls that don't bounce where they ought to. Who do they think they are

bluestonevedder wrote:FeS, what's happened to Strokosch? I thought he was injured until I saw him run on with the water. I was confused with Wilson's selection at 6, and to be honest I was a little underwhelmed with him. I thought Beattie looked very good when he came on, so would look to start him on Saturday.

Nice to see you back bluestone.

Agree with your above summary completely. Also interesting to see Nowell's stats on another post 14 tackles none missed plus 8 carries and 6 defenders beaten. Sounds good and confirms he grew into the game. I personally think we need to stick with him for the Championship. Only difficulty is it would be nice to see Wade there some day!

Same team again for the Scotland match and I do hope the bench changes to 21. B Youngs 22. G Ford 23. A Watson

doctor_grey wrote:

little_badger wrote:Anyone else really disappointed Webber is going back to his club this week? I would have liked to have seen him on the bench, we simply can not have our lineout fall apart every time Youngs comes on.

I really haven't seen Webber much this season.  Maybe two matches if I recall.  Didn't knock my socks off, but nothing bad either. How are the other parts of his game going?  What, in particular, does he bring?  I agree we cannot lose critical lineouts like we are.  If England won that first lineout after Youngs came on, who knows how the match would have turned?

If Goode hadn't of missed the tackle who knows how the match would have turned out.

If Care had passed the ball along instead of going himself who knows how the match would have turned out.

I do love it how people will pick one thing and then only talk about it as if other players didn't make costly errors. People seem to forget we gave ourself a mountain to climb with the starting players on the pitch and yet they seem to get no negative talk?

Chjw131 wrote:Same team again for the Scotland match and I do hope the bench changes to 21. B Youngs 22. G Ford 23. A Watson

I would agree with that, although I would have had Webber as the reserve hooker like many others (sorry nathan, not deliberately trying to be antagonistic, just my view) and of course would have been happier had Wilson been fit. Do feel that Twelvetrees has something to prove, he's been around a while now and if he just continues to be solid then we may as well have Barritt as a more solid (er ) option at 12, he's better defensively and is good at organizing others. However can't see SL dropping both Barritt & Goode out of the 23 at the moment so I don't think we will see Watson on the bench just yet. I'm hoping that the sight of Farrell struggling before the end of the France match was enough to scare SL into getting rid of the no specialist 10 on the bench tactic.

Apparently he's learnt nothing, same England 23.

B91212 wrote:

Chjw131 wrote:Same team again for the Scotland match and I do hope the bench changes to 21. B Youngs 22. G Ford 23. A Watson

I would agree with that, although I would have had Webber as the reserve hooker like many others (sorry nathan, not deliberately trying to be antagonistic, just my view) and of course would have been happier had Wilson been fit. Do feel that Twelvetrees has something to prove, he's been around a while now and if he just continues to be solid then we may as well have Barritt as a more solid (er ) option at 12, he's better defensively and is good at organizing others. However can't see SL dropping both Barritt & Goode out of the 23 at the moment so I don't think we will see Watson on the bench just yet. I'm hoping that the sight of Farrell struggling before the end of the France match was enough to scare SL into getting rid of the no specialist 10 on the bench tactic.

No need to apologise, everyone is entitled to their opinions and i respect that. I do believe it's an area of his game he needs to work on, but people sometimes forget a successful lineout isn't just down to the hooker (unless there not straight). He's merely a cog in it all and so he needs more practice with lawes etc. Exactly how much time has T. Youngs played when Lawes has been calling it?

little_badger wrote:Apparently he's learnt nothing, same England 23.

But the players should of learnt from last week.

nathan wrote:Exactly how much time has T. Youngs played when Lawes has been calling it?

I'm guessing first the autumn series (when Youngs missed some of the training anyway) and then this week. Surely they should be like Smit and Matfield by now .

nathan wrote:

little_badger wrote:Apparently he's learnt nothing, same England 23.

But the players should of learnt from last week.

Let's hope so. Unfortunately neither Barritt nor Goode can learn how to be pacey impact players in one week.

For me a worrying point is that to win the 6 nations, first England need to win all their remaining games (no mean feat), second they need to have a higher points difference. They won't get said points difference by finishing the game with such a slow backline.

little_badger wrote:

nathan wrote:

little_badger wrote:Apparently he's learnt nothing, same England 23.

But the players should of learnt from last week.

Let's hope so. Unfortunately neither Barritt nor Goode can learn how to be pacey impact players in one week.

For me a worrying point is that to win the 6 nations, first England need to win all their remaining games (no mean feat), second they need to have a higher points difference. They won't get said points difference by finishing the game with such a slow backline.

they just need to make sure the starting backline do the business when there on the field then.

For me players like Barritt, Twelvetrees and Goode must be starters or nothing as they offer very little coming off the bench. I really can't understand why Goode is classed as 'goode' enough to cover 10 at this level when he doesn't even do it for his club (in fact when Saracens tried to move him there permanently a couple of years ago it failed and he was moved back to 15).

I did wonder if SL wanted Goode available in case the pitch turns out to be the bog many are predicting so him and Brown can welly it back at the Scots all day. But if that was the case then surely he would have selected Ford on the bench as cover for Farrell and not Barritt, especially seeing as Ford went well for Bath when the Rec resembled a brown swimming pool a short while ago (think I read on here that Eastmond went an entire game without touching the ball whilst playing at 12).

I get the feeling that the England coaching staff and SL in particular are being a little stubborn with this selection, not admitting they made some selection errors with the last 23 but instead hiding behind that they backing are the players. If that is the case then I'm sorry but you select the best 23 to a) get the job done and b) move the team forward. This is top level sport, no room for sentiment (just ask Brian O'Gatland).

You read my mind, mate.  I agree about players like Barritt, Twelvetrees, and Goode giving no benefit or lift off the bench.  Goode is an interesting case as he is clearly a player rated highly by the coaches.  To be fair to him, although he is not fast, he does get around pretty well and is not the poor player some people here have described.  However, still don't see him as a back up to Farrell.  One strange thing is there used to be a time when many fly halves would serve their apprenticechip at fullback.  Not much any more.

I also agree it seems the coaches are being a bit stubborn.  Shame.  I can't blame the players, or frankly, gicve too much credit to France for beating that backline on the outside.  Bringing in Barritt only confusaed the defense even more.

By the way, how is your winter going in Alberta? Here in north Jersey we are getting hammered.

"Several of the players who did emerge physically unscathed from Sunday will still be receiving bad news. Humphreys said: “There will be some change in the positions that we feel we have strength."

Surely, he's got to be talking about Ford.