Froch v Groves 2, to be officially announced on Ringside 13/2

First topic message reminder :

Claims the IBF president, likely to take place in May. Hope George finishes the job this time.

http://www.boxingscene.com/froch-groves-ii-agreement-reached-confirms-ibf-prez--74593

Cheers Rodders

Rodney wrote:Imagine the odds will even out come fight night Stongy, any news on the venue ? Hope it's Old Trafford so I can drive.

Cheers Rodders

You going to be driving around the stadium while the fight is on or something...

Not sure Hearn will like that..

I lean towards Groves. The thing that speaks loudest for me is just how bad Froch and his trainer wanted to avoid this rematch. Its not the actions of a boxer that is confident. Its also clear that Groves has him mentally. He knows how to get him.

He had him mentally last time..

catchweight wrote:I lean towards Groves. The thing that speaks loudest for me is just how bad Froch and his trainer wanted to avoid this rematch. Its not the actions of a boxer that is confident. Its also clear that Groves has him mentally. He knows how to get him.

I can't remember the exact stat but something like 80% of the time the winner of the first bout goes on to win the rematch. The bookies are going with the stats and who won the first fight I reckon.

My view has always been Froch will win the rematch.

Nobody really knew for sure if Groves had him mentally last time or if it was all an act. Now its obvious Groves knows how to mess with him. Froch is already wound up tighter than coiled spring at even having to take the rematch. Groves will only toy with him from here on in. Its not that difficult. Froch is so insecure and needy.

Why is it obvious ??

Froch needn't have rematched him at all !!

You are reading too much into it !!

Its easy to read into. Froch had the biggest money fight available to him against Groves. By far. Having been booed out of the ring and with plenty questioning the legitimacy of his win what does he do? Everything he can to avoid. It would be one thing if Groves wasnt big money. But its a financially huge fight. And Froch tried everything to get around a rematch. It was only when the IBF ordered it that he was dragged kicking and screaming back to negotiations. His options were to be stipped and humiliated looking like the duck of the century or to go and make the rematch. Its clearly a case of a fighter not wanting to the fight but having no real alternative.

Hatton didn't fight Witter because he didn't think he gave him the respect he deserves....

I imagine Froch feels the same way............and rightly so.....Groves has been disrespecting a great so why should he fill his pockets !!

It was a legitimate win...........People moan that it was stopped too early but very few think Groves would have won..

Froch has every right to be upset .............A great comeback p****d on by the public..

I have no doubt Froch thinks he will win...

Groves irritates froch for sure..........and I want Groves to win...

but enough of all this mind games carp....don't mean a thing once the bell rings.

Hatton didnt fight Witter because there wasnt the money it to take on the risk and he could fight anyone else for as much or more money.

The situation is not like Froch and Groves. It couldnt more obvious that Froch didnt want this rematch and thats because he knows its a bloody tough fight that he is in real danger of losing. Froch is training for a fight he doesnt want. His trainer back when they thought they werent gong to have to rematch said Groves was just a bad style for them. He stands to make a fortune for the rematch and he had to be forced into it.

He could win again relying on better toughness and fitness but I think Groves has knocked a chunk of confidence out of him and Frochs behavior after the fight indicates that.

I think it's definitely fair to say that Groves has made inroads in to Froch's psyche, personally. The "bad breath" and "bald swede" stuff is pretty out of character for Carl, really, and doesn't reflect well considering that much of his anger towards Groves in the build up to the first fight was centred around how "childish" he supposedly was.

Froch has gone off on a couple of ridiculous, cringe-worthy rants (I know some think he was always cringe-worthy beforehand, but I don't particularly agree!) about Groves and how the fight went when he's been taken to task on it since it happened and, as others have rightly pointed out, he didn't want the rematch, certainly not right away. He's been open in saying this, so I'm surprised that people argue otherwise.

I think Froch would have to be some kind of robot to not have a couple of seeds of doubt planted in his mind ahead of this fight, seeds which Groves himself has planted and is now watering. When Groves told Carl exactly what he was going to do in that first round, Froch laughed it off. Can he do that this time? He'd be foolish to, put it that way. As Groves himself said, he believed he could do what he promised first time out - but for the rematch, he KNOWS he can, and so must Carl.

There's pressure on both, but still more on Froch, I feel. The bookies are still favouring him, albeit by a smaller margin this time, and he has to prove that his and McCracken's claims of taking Groves too lightly and being unfocussed are true - he knows he can have absolutely no excuses for a rematch having been given such a wake up call in November. His ego could take losing to Kessler and Ward, but losing to Groves would be a totally different matter, given how he's pointed out many times that Groves hasn't mixed it at world level before and suchlike. I think Carl will be very concerned about the possible effect it could have on his legacy if he were to lose to such a (relative) novice.

There's plenty for Froch to take comfort in too, of course, I'm just trying to refute the idea that this is just another fight for Carl and that Groves hasn't gained a bit of a psychological edge.

As a side note, can anyone actually give a proper example of this "disrespect" from Groves towards Froch which I keep hearing about? I've never really understood the idea behind this, so if someone could explain it to me, it'd be appreciated.

Groves has Frochs number and I think Carl knows this , he seems very uneasy and agitated by the thought of the fight. Froch can't do anything different and probably knows he'll have to got through some patches of he'll again if he were to prevail.

Cheers Rodders

If he has his number how come he got stopped the first time....

Baloney..

Never thought after Froch got his legs back Groves would win........and I was right !!

He missed his chance..

Froch is the favorite for some reason....

God knows why !!

I mean he's fighting a guy who has his number and who psyches him out...

Because he tattooed Froch all night and beat him up , the stoppage was shoddy and Groves lost discipline. Doesn't take a physchologist to realise Froch doesn't seem too keen on a return.

Cheers Rodders

catchweight wrote:Nobody really knew for sure if Groves had him mentally last time or if it was all an act. Now its obvious Groves knows how to mess with him. Froch is already wound up tighter than coiled spring at even having to take the rematch. Groves will only toy with him from here on in. Its not that difficult. Froch is so insecure and needy.

I think you meant Cobra.

Ha!

Rodney wrote:Because he tattooed Froch all night and beat him up , the stoppage was shoddy and Groves lost discipline. Doesn't take a physchologist to realise Froch doesn't seem too keen on a return.

Cheers Rodders

Are you seriously telling me you think Groves wins If the ref doesn't stop it ??

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:

Rodney wrote:Because he tattooed Froch all night and beat him up , the stoppage was shoddy and Groves lost discipline. Doesn't take a physchologist to realise Froch doesn't seem too keen on a return.

Cheers Rodders

Are you seriously telling me you think Groves wins If the ref doesn't stop it ??

Yes

Rodney wrote:

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:

Rodney wrote:Because he tattooed Froch all night and beat him up , the stoppage was shoddy and Groves lost discipline. Doesn't take a physchologist to realise Froch doesn't seem too keen on a return.

Cheers Rodders

Are you seriously telling me you think Groves wins If the ref doesn't stop it ??

Yes

Sorry Mate but he was heading down...

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:Froch is the favorite for some reason....

God knows why !!

I mean he's fighting a guy who has his number and who psyches him out...

Bob Mee picked Froch to win the rematch so maybe the bookies listen to experts TRUSSMAN!

Carl needed to win every remaining round (corrupt cards aside) in order to take the fight though.

'Heading down' or not, Carl almost certainly couldn't win without the stoppage.

He didn't need to win all the remaining rounds because he stopped the guy and as Groves was about to hit the deck anyway..

That was a 10-8...

Anyway scorecards are subjective what makes yours so special...???

I had it 77-74...with a 10-8 to come...... 85-84..

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:He didn't need to win all the remaining rounds because he stopped the guy and as Groves was about to hit the deck anyway..

That was a 10-8...

Anyway scorecards are subjective what makes yours so special...???

I had it 77-74...with a 10-8 to come......  85-84..

The question was 'IF' the ref didn't stop it, try keep up (with yourself).

78-73 going into the 9th (pretty much consensus view), 86-83 after 9 assuming a 10-8 to Froch, Froch wins 10th, 11th, 12th and still only scores a draw 113-113.

I don't care what you think..Quote someone else.

catchweight wrote:Hatton didnt fight Witter because there wasnt the money it to take on the risk and he could fight anyone else for as much or more money.

The situation is not like Froch and Groves. It couldnt more obvious that Froch didnt want this rematch and thats because he knows its a bloody tough fight that he is in real danger of losing. Froch is training for a fight he doesnt want. His trainer back when they thought they werent gong to have to rematch said Groves was just a bad style for them. He stands to make a fortune for the rematch and he had to be forced into it.

He could win again relying on better toughness and fitness but I think Groves has knocked a chunk of confidence out of him and Frochs behavior after the fight indicates that.

How do you know It isn't like Froch-Groves..

You don't even know Froch.........I know one thing you seem to hate everyone and everything..

Froch is a high achiever...It irritates him he can't get respect from a kid...

I dont hate everyone and everything TRUSSMAN. I like you. Kind of like the way I like Tyson Fury. And for similar reasons.

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:I don't care what you think..Quote someone else.

Then why reply to me, dickface.

As Fury is big. popular and number 1 in Britain...I'll thank you for the compliment...Catchy

You do seem to have a downer on most fighters Mate.......

It's as If you resent successful fighters.....

But hey at least you have a Boxing opinion unlike some wallies....

Froch always seems to display anxiety.  He has always been uncomfortable giving interviews which is part of the reason he talks so much guff at times.  

He was also nervous about turning pro which is why he was a bit older entering the paid ranks.

He was anxious before the first Groves fight and I expect he will be before the second fight.   In the past when nervous and in tough fights he eventually gets a handle on things and gets down to doing his best work after a few rounds.

If Froch starts slowly against Groves he could be in a world of trouble but I think McCracken will be planning to give Groves something to think about early doors.

TopHat24/7 wrote:

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:I don't care what you think..Quote someone else.

Then why reply to me, dickface.

Good to know dickface beats the swear filter.

I want Groves to win.....But I get the feeling he missed his chance.....

Hope not.....

Just think the knockdown accounted for a lot what happened first time around....

Still Froch isn't getting any younger...........Groves will have more confidence..

But Froch also knows what to expect....

A lot of interesting questions........

Why It's a big fight but Froch for me...........Groves just too accident prone.

I'm trying to avoid arguments...But some guys keep following me around Rowley..

Look at my bradley thread !!

Funny way of avoiding arguments, adopting the 'being an obnoxious Tinkywinky' approach.

88Chris05 wrote:I think it's definitely fair to say that Groves has made inroads in to Froch's psyche, personally. The "bad breath" and "bald swede" stuff is pretty out of character for Carl, really, and doesn't reflect well considering that much of his anger towards Groves in the build up to the first fight was centred around how "childish" he supposedly was.

Froch has gone off on a couple of ridiculous, cringe-worthy rants (I know some think he was always cringe-worthy beforehand, but I don't particularly agree!) about Groves and how the fight went when he's been taken to task on it since it happened and, as others have rightly pointed out, he didn't want the rematch, certainly not right away. He's been open in saying this, so I'm surprised that people argue otherwise.

I think Froch would have to be some kind of robot to not have a couple of seeds of doubt planted in his mind ahead of this fight, seeds which Groves himself has planted and is now watering. When Groves told Carl exactly what he was going to do in that first round, Froch laughed it off. Can he do that this time? He'd be foolish to, put it that way. As Groves himself said, he believed he could do what he promised first time out - but for the rematch, he KNOWS he can, and so must Carl.

There's pressure on both, but still more on Froch, I feel. The bookies are still favouring him, albeit by a smaller margin this time, and he has to prove that his and McCracken's claims of taking Groves too lightly and being unfocussed are true - he knows he can have absolutely no excuses for a rematch having been given such a wake up call in November. His ego could take losing to Kessler and Ward, but losing to Groves would be a totally different matter, given how he's pointed out many times that Groves hasn't mixed it at world level before and suchlike. I think Carl will be very concerned about the possible effect it could have on his legacy if he were to lose to such a (relative) novice.

There's plenty for Froch to take comfort in too, of course, I'm just trying to refute the idea that this is just another fight for Carl and that Groves hasn't gained a bit of a psychological edge.

As a side note, can anyone actually give a proper example of this "disrespect" from Groves towards Froch which I keep hearing about? I've never really understood the idea behind this, so if someone could explain it to me, it'd be appreciated.

Interesting thought on who the pressure is on most......

Groves loses twice to the same guy............His legacy will be in bits ..If he cares about one........

Froch well it will be 1-1 ...............and consensus is he's a great and a bit on the slide......Can it really hurt him ??

Groves is saying that this time he has a plan to knock Froch out within three rounds.

I don't believe it is just mind games from Groves, he seems to believe it. He knows he backed off after the KD last time when he could potentially have finish Froch off there and then in round 1.

Froch was still rubbery in rounds 2 and 3..........

However when he got his legs back it was an even fight........With froch coming on strong in the 9th

Which is why he blew it in my opinion...

The ref blew it. Absolutely nuked it.

Groves should win if he can stick to his boxing. He can also hurt Froch and potentially knock him out.

If he gets dragged into a slugfest either through inexperience, machoism or tiring then Froch will probably do him. Hes better at that sort of thing.

But Froch was happy to wave goodbye to probably two or three times the biggest ever fight purse of his career and a fight everyone wanted. That says a lot about his mindset and confidence to me.

Whilst I can see posters points on the issue.....

I think posters are assuming both fighters fight the same fight next time...

I imagine Froch will be looking at things he can differently..........and Groves will see how often he left himself open...

I can't see how Groves can improve on last time..Yet I can see how Froch can....

If Groves fights more negatively it will suit Froch...Who can control the center of the ring..

Posters forget that once Froch got his legs back it was an even fight........With Froch taking over......

Would not be too critical of Groves for not wading in and trying to get Froch out of there in the early rounds. George has not really gone the 12 rounds distance too frequently and on the occasions when he has such as against Degale the pace was pretty glacial. OK going gung ho and trying to get the stoppage but if you shoot your bolt and find you have not got Carl out of there you’re likely to be in trouble because you know Froch will keep coming at you and will set a decent pace. Nine rounds with Froch when you’re knackered is a tough place to be.

Think Groves will have learned a lot from the last fight, will know better on pacing himself and doing the distance on the big stage and obviously has a lot of reason to be encouraged from the first 8 rounds. Always smart to pick the guy who won the first fight in rematches but this is a pick em for me.

Froch won't change because he can't change.

What I think he might do differently, under RM's stewardship, is start fast like v Bute (and lesser extent Kess II).

Froch has to start fast because if he doesn't Groves will do exactly what he did last time. He could well finish the job if Carl starts the way he did last time.

You guys not think that because Groves was caught by Froch in the 9th...

He may be a little gunshy in the return.........

Much talk about what the first fight did to Froch's psyche...But none about what being stopped did for Groves...

No, because he feels like he was cheated by the ref.

The "who won the first fight" rule should surely go out the winner if its down to cack eyed judging. Who wins the "we dont know who would have won the first fight" rematches?

TopHat24/7 wrote:No, because he feels like he was cheated by the ref.  

He tells us that.....but he knows If he was hurt.........Consensus is that he lasts a few more seconds....

You can't lie to yourself.........I can't tell myself my physique is bad or that I'm ugly !!

Rodney wrote:

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:

Rodney wrote:Because he tattooed Froch all night and beat him up , the stoppage was shoddy and Groves lost discipline. Doesn't take a physchologist to realise Froch doesn't seem too keen on a return.

Cheers Rodders

Are you seriously telling me you think Groves wins If the ref doesn't stop it ??

Yes

I think so too. I seriously don't think GG was in that much trouble and had enough of a lead that he would've won the fight despite the shift in momentum.

You saw the scorecards then ??......He was one point up in two of them....

and the 9th was 10-9 or 10-8 If he survived...

I think he was well capable of surviving the round, and well capable of winning the contest, yes. I really don't think he was that badly hurt. Certainly not enough to assume that he was inevitably getting stopped.

Well we all see different things....Who knows.......