Froch v Groves 2, to be officially announced on Ringside 13/2

by Rodney Wed Feb 12, 2014 6:20 pm

First topic message reminder :

Claims the IBF president, likely to take place in May. Hope George finishes the job this time.

http://www.boxingscene.com/froch-groves-ii-agreement-reached-confirms-ibf-prez--74593

Cheers Rodders

by **88Chris05** Thu Feb 13, 2014 1:21 pm

Izzi wrote:Better choose the emirates, not going up to stabville for it!

Stabville? I take offence to that. We prefer Shottingham.

by Herman Jaeger Thu Feb 13, 2014 1:22 pm

This is a lifetime opportunity for Saint George. He knows he boxed a helluva fight last time, and the chance to put the nail in the coffin of Froch's career is in his grasp.

Froch knows he's got the stamina, so working on his movement body and head. Don't get hit this time(liberties,) and pick his spots. Attack Groves in the pocket. Don't pressure Groves early, eliminate the risk taking. Adopt the challenger's mindset, get back that hunger. This is a massive night for Carl, he might go past Naz if he wins this one.

by TopHat24/7 Thu Feb 13, 2014 1:22 pm

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:This thread suggests The City ground Nottingham....

Which means he's thick...

So no, you didn't read the article to which the post was referring, you just waded in in typically Yank pig-ignorant fashion and blurted out your opinion before engaging your brain.

by Guest Thu Feb 13, 2014 1:24 pm

Herman Jaggery wrote:This is a lifetime opportunity for Saint George. He knows he boxed a helluva fight last time, and the chance to put the nail in the coffin of Froch's career is in his grasp.

Froch knows he's got the stamina, so working on his movement body and head. Don't get hit this time(liberties,) and pick his spots. Attack Groves in the pocket. Don't pressure Groves early, eliminate the risk taking. Adopt the challenger's mindset, get back that hunger. This is a massive night for Carl, he might go past Naz if he wins this one.

Suppose there's a first time for everything

by Izzi Thu Feb 13, 2014 1:28 pm

TopHat24/7 wrote:
Izzi wrote:
TopHat24/7 wrote:
Izzi wrote:http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/26166323

It's on!!!!!

Who's going? Who wants to meet up for a beef?!

Better choose the emirates, not going up to stabville for it!

Froch by 5th round stoppage.

I may need to go to the toilets to relieve myself of this excitement.

1) Since when has Manchester been 'stabville'? Not sure anyone can talk positively about London in comparison in that regard.

Was referring to Nottingham!

2) Why does it matter? Presumably you'll be helicoptered in, or limo chauffeured, and taken by security direct to your ringside seats or corporate box??

I can walk to the Emirates. I'm a man of the people, the chopper only gets brought out when I pop down to Monaco for a weekend.

Yeh, real safe area...... http://www.islingtongazette.co.uk/news/crime-courts/two_men_arrested_and_bailed_after_teenager_stabbed_in_canonbury_road_1_3310539

Islington is a damn site safer than Nottingham. You get crime everywhere, lived in NW1 for a while and never seen or heard of trouble. Caledonian rd is a dump of an area though separating my wonderous borough of Camden and Islington.

by TRUSSMAN66 Thu Feb 13, 2014 1:28 pm

Calm down Toppy..

I appreciate your contribution..

So Geography isn't your strong point !!..

by Rowley Thu Feb 13, 2014 1:29 pm

After we've decided whose town is nicest can we move onto who has the hardest Dad?

Or alternatively we could discuss boxing.

by Guest Thu Feb 13, 2014 1:30 pm

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:Calm down Toppy..

I appreciate your contribution..

So Geography isn't your strong point !!..

And reading stuff thoroughly isn't yours...ironic given your job.

by TRUSSMAN66 Thu Feb 13, 2014 1:33 pm

My Dad is the hardest

by TRUSSMAN66 Thu Feb 13, 2014 1:34 pm

Americans don't get irony remember...kiddo..

Could murder a cup of tea

by CallMeBenji Thu Feb 13, 2014 1:35 pm

88Chris05 wrote:Good post, Benji. Welcome aboard.

Agree with many of your points and I'm sure if they're being honest, so would Froch and McCracken (obviously wouldn't expect them to come out publicly and agree). When someone is quicker than you, more elusive than you and has a better jab than you, you're going to have a hard time outboxing them.

Based on styles, age and mentality, I think Groves has more stacked in his favour to win this fight than Froch does. In an abstract kind of way you could argue that Froch essentially has a puncher's chance, with the caveat being that it's a bigger puncher's chance than normal, as a) he's been, to one degree or another, the fresher or better man in the championship rounds of all his title fights, Dirrell aside, and b) Groves' chin, while not glass, isn't granite either, and he has been known to lose his head when tagged.

While he might not get as badly banjoed between rounds 1 and 7 as he did in the first fight, I ultimately think that Carl will probably have to win the rematch in a similar way - withstanding an onslaught / boxing lesson early on but bank on his chin and stamina keeping him in there as Groves starts to tire, which I'm sure he will to one extent or another. Groves was so comprehensively on top for 7 rounds (for me, anyway) that I think he can afford to take an extra little off and save for later in the fight while still building up a lead, but even so, if Froch is still there for the final third of the fight I'd expect him to be coming on very, very strongly. While the stoppage was muck, if Groves is being honest with himself he'll know that he did start losing his cool and making tactical errors once Froch finally dragged him in to a slug fest, and if he doesn't address that issue he'll likely be made to pay again.

But I think he will take that lesson on board and adjust; he just seems to smart not to. It's interesting that in the build up to the first fight, when asked how he was going to win, Groves was talking proper tactics, pointing out what he'd seen in certain Froch performances, drawing comparisons between their styles etc. Froch, on the other hand, just said that all he needed to do was land a big shot, and that'd be it. It's a bit worrying that, having said pretty much the same before fighting Dirrell and Ward, he hasn't really ever changed his attitude when facing such a kind of fighter (ie, a slippery, quick one). At this stage of his career, it's unlikely he's going to suddenly adapt to a different approach or gameplan, whereas Groves, armed already with a decent blue print, can.

I think there are enough key factors to keep a rematch in the balance, but my early inclination is to lean towards a Groves win on points.

Thanks Chris and DAVE. I've been a long time reader.

I don't quite buy into the fact that Groves fought the fight of his life and he'll never do any better. His style in the Froch fight was not really any different to any other. The only difference is that he was implementing it on a higher level and it just so happened to be a style which is a nightmare for Froch. Like you say Chris, if Groves doesn't learn from his mistake and keep a cool head when things get a bit tasty in the later rounds then that would be a worrying sign for his career as a whole.

I think it's a fair point that Abraham was the perfect fight for Froch to showcase the skills element of his game (although I'm certainly not getting carried away with Froch's skills). Equally, the same could be said for Groves with Froch, perhaps save for Bika.

I remember seeing Adam Booth review the fight with JDG somewhere and he put huge emphasis on Groves keeping a cool head in that fight. Had Booth been in the corner for Froch then he might have really hammered that point home to Groves and he may have stuck to what was working more instead of getting reckless. Either way, with Booth in the corner or not, I wouldn't expect Groves to make the same mistake again.

by TopHat24/7 Thu Feb 13, 2014 1:36 pm

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:My Dad is the hardest

You mean the richest/most generous.

#silverspoon

by Guest Thu Feb 13, 2014 1:36 pm

Izzi wrote:
Rowley wrote:After we've decided whose town is nicest can we move onto who has the hardest Dad?

Or alternatively we could discuss boxing.

We are, discussing where you're more likely to get mugged when walking to the fight..

This is why there are no fights staged in Bradford...not officially sanctioned ones at any rate. People from Bradford will go to a fight in Manchester just to mug the people attending such are there levels of dedication (and the fact that everyone in Bradford is skint...the days basically consist of people stealing the same empty wallet from one another)

by Guest Thu Feb 13, 2014 1:37 pm

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:Americans don't get irony remember...kiddo..

Could murder a cup of tea

Murder a cup of tea...you couldn't break a digestive biscuit with both hands ya big soft nelly!!!

by TRUSSMAN66 Thu Feb 13, 2014 1:40 pm

Like I said I had it 5-3..

Hardly a schooling...The judges were close too..

Albeit too close

by Izzi Thu Feb 13, 2014 1:44 pm

If it isn't in town I'll be praying that Jim Watt isn't commentating. Beyond biased towards Groves whilst ignoring the fact that Froch was landing punches. Probably why so many on here had it much wider than the more intelligent ones amongst us... Wink

by TopHat24/7 Thu Feb 13, 2014 1:47 pm

6-2 Groves with a 10-8 in the first, so 78-73 going into the 9th, 86-83 coming out of it if it'd been officiated properly.

by milkyboy Thu Feb 13, 2014 1:47 pm

Your card was on the froch side of the scale compared to the average truss. The judges were off the scale.

Benji. Gg had booth in his corner against Anderson. Not sure the fight instinct can be fully coached out... But hope I'm wrong.

by TopHat24/7 Thu Feb 13, 2014 1:48 pm

Izzi wrote:If it isn't in town I'll be praying that Jim Watt isn't commentating. Beyond biased towards Groves whilst ignoring the fact that Froch was landing punches. Probably why so many on here had it much wider than the more intelligent ones amongst us...

Or maybe the more astute among us know the difference between landing and simply throwing, and how punches that only connect on arms, elbows and gloves should be scored.

by TRUSSMAN66 Thu Feb 13, 2014 1:49 pm

Beginning to like you Izzy...

Keep agreeing with me and you'll have V.I.P status at the Oyster.

by Guest Thu Feb 13, 2014 1:52 pm

Run while you can Izzy

by TRUSSMAN66 Thu Feb 13, 2014 1:52 pm

By the way loving the Off topic section where everything is Off topic.....

by Izzi Thu Feb 13, 2014 1:53 pm

TopHat24/7 wrote:
Izzi wrote:If it isn't in town I'll be praying that Jim Watt isn't commentating. Beyond biased towards Groves whilst ignoring the fact that Froch was landing punches. Probably why so many on here had it much wider than the more intelligent ones amongst us...

Or maybe the more astute among us know the difference between landing and simply throwing, and how punches that only connect on arms, elbows and gloves should be scored.

To be fair you've got to be either blind or mentally not quite there if you don't know what is a connected punch vs one missing....

Anyway, judges won't be needed second time round like the first when Froch walks grove on to a left hook before finishing him off in the corner.

by TopHat24/7 Thu Feb 13, 2014 1:59 pm

Well, there were some one here (Tunes, from memory) that were going on and on about what Froch was landing as part of that final flurry, however when shown slow-mo footage it was clear most weren't landing clean.

by Izzi Thu Feb 13, 2014 2:01 pm

TopHat24/7 wrote:Well, there were some one here (Tunes, from memory) that were going on and on about what Froch was landing as part of that final flurry, however when shown slow-mo footage it was clear most weren't landing clean.

Obviously landed some, either that or Groves went jelly legged from drinking vodka inbetween rounds?

by TRUSSMAN66 Thu Feb 13, 2014 2:01 pm

If Groves gets anything like the battering our garden got last night then he'll have my sympathy...

Greenhouse smashed up...Fences down !!....

Like Bradford fight fans visited.

by **owen10ozzy** Thu Feb 13, 2014 2:05 pm

Izzi you really do think highly of yourself & some of your posts are verging on being enough for ban so I'd watch yourself.

Onto the actually OP;

Great that the rematch has been made, undoubtedly the biggest match to happen in Britain for the past 20 odd years. I'm assuming everyone is happy for this to be PPV this time around!?

I get what Truss & to a degree Izzi are saying; Carl could have underestimated and not trained properly for Groves first time around...if this was the case then the complexion of the fight does change a lot.

However the actual manner in which he fights doesn't. Regardless of what he has learnt the first time round, he isn't capable of making the changes needed to stop Groves from doing what he does. During his whole career, bar 1 fight, Froch keeps his hands low, feet square and jumps into his punches. He neglects to use a jab. None of that will change...too far gone into his career...also another reason & perhaps more important one is that these exact things are what allows him to throw the hurtful shots he does. I'd argue that if he held a tight guard then he wouldn't be able to throw those hooks with anywhere approaching the force he can with his hands low. All Froch can do is try to start quicker and force Groves onto the back foot/ropes by bullying him in close.

For Groves...it's much of the same as last time...with added discipline to a) keep cool & not divert from gameplan b) ensure the pace isn't too quick that he fatigues late on

That being said there is also the chance that Groves goes away and improves on his conditioning, thus allowing him to fight at a high pace and not tire late on in the fight. An option which has seemingly been overlooked by some.

For me Groves wins the rematch and I think he will be the first person to stop Carl. Froch is tailor made for Groves style & I think that right hand is going to time a more aggressive Froch on the way in and catch him clean.

There has been a big difference in Carls ability to take a shot in his last two fights when comparing them to 2 years ago. Kessler and Groves both hurt him numerous times; where as two years Carl could shake them off he doesn't seem to be able to as quickly as he once could.

Think Carl starts off faster and gets himself into the contest a little earlier but will be eating right hands at will...Groves to drop him around the 6th/7th with a counter and this time he won't let him off the hook. Bold prediction but that's what I'm going with.

by TopHat24/7 Thu Feb 13, 2014 2:07 pm

Izzi wrote:
TopHat24/7 wrote:Well, there were some one here (Tunes, from memory) that were going on and on about what Froch was landing as part of that final flurry, however when shown slow-mo footage it was clear most weren't landing clean.

Obviously landed some, either that or Groves went jelly legged from drinking vodka inbetween rounds?

Nobody doubted 'some' but it was 1 good and 2 clean shots, as part of a flurry of 7 or 8 punches, the rest of which didn't land properly - other than in the eye's of Froch's fanboy worshippers.

by milkyboy Thu Feb 13, 2014 2:08 pm

Izzi is just more insightful than most. Most fans just failed to notice the 'quiet beating' froch was dishing out. Watch it again and its clear froch landed the more meaningful shots.

Whistle

by TopHat24/7 Thu Feb 13, 2014 2:10 pm

owen10ozzy wrote:Izzi you really do think highly of yourself & some of your posts are verging on being enough for ban so I'd watch yourself.

That said, it would complete your initiation into the Truss club (current membership: 1).

by TopHat24/7 Thu Feb 13, 2014 2:11 pm

Re the PPV point, no, I'm not happy, unless there's a stacked undercard. Especially given the Undercard thread the other day.

by TRUSSMAN66 Thu Feb 13, 2014 2:13 pm

Milky...It was a quiet beating !!!

by Rodney Thu Feb 13, 2014 2:15 pm

Since I was pivotal in announcing the news a day earlier and creating great debate for 606v2, I'll assume the forum would like my address to forward the ringside press creds for this one.

Cheers Rodders

by Izzi Thu Feb 13, 2014 2:17 pm

TopHat24/7 wrote:
owen10ozzy wrote:Izzi you really do think highly of yourself & some of your posts are verging on being enough for ban so I'd watch yourself.

That said, it would complete your initiation into the Truss club (current membership: 1).

Not aware one thinking highly of oneself warrants a ban?! I've not even received a PM warning.... Hug

Interestingly the bookies have Froch odds on to win, they too are obviously from my school of thought that Froch wins. And they seldom get it wrong hence why you seldom hear of a bookie going out of business Wink

by compelling and rich Thu Feb 13, 2014 2:17 pm

not a big fan of boxing being in football stadiums, the view for the majority normally isnt the best. i went to the etihad for the hatton fight and even with decent tickets it was a poor view

if it has to be a football stadium id pick OT personally (not just because im a united fan and from Manchester). the way OT has been built upon and extended means that its pretty steep but close in, think it will make for better viewing for the fans as your not set back as far as some of the modern built stadiums

by Izzi Thu Feb 13, 2014 2:19 pm

To fair the best stadium would be Twickers, very steeply banked and offers a good view from wherever you're sat.

by TRUSSMAN66 Thu Feb 13, 2014 2:22 pm

Maybe Utd could leave the ring there all year round..

Cure there midfield problems

by milkyboy Thu Feb 13, 2014 2:22 pm

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:Milky...It was a quiet beating !!!

in 25 years time, the experts will all agree it was just an 'epic illusion' from groves. Knockdown in the first round? Pah! He fooled you.

by TRUSSMAN66 Thu Feb 13, 2014 2:23 pm

Never a truer word said Milky.

by compelling and rich Thu Feb 13, 2014 2:24 pm

Izzi wrote:To fair the best stadium would be Twickers, very steeply banked and offers a good view from wherever you're sat.

hardly boxing strong hold twickers though, manchester has a very strong base of boxing fans as the first fight showed and is more centrally for the rest of the country. not to mention they will probably rip of all fans if it is in twickers

by Izzi Thu Feb 13, 2014 2:35 pm

compelling and rich wrote:
Izzi wrote:To fair the best stadium would be Twickers, very steeply banked and offers a good view from wherever you're sat.

hardly boxing strong hold twickers though, manchester has a very strong base of boxing fans as the first fight showed and is more centrally for the rest of the country. not to mention they will probably rip of all fans if it is in twickers

Wasn't alluding to it being hosted there, was just saying it's an old school steeply banked stadia.

RFU would choke on their caviar sarnies at the thought of it anyway.

Must admit I'd not be as keen if it was at a stadium. Ok to watch a rugby match but not exactly York Hall esque when it comes to being anywhere near the action.

by compelling and rich Thu Feb 13, 2014 2:46 pm

Izzi wrote:
compelling and rich wrote:
Izzi wrote:To fair the best stadium would be Twickers, very steeply banked and offers a good view from wherever you're sat.

hardly boxing strong hold twickers though, manchester has a very strong base of boxing fans as the first fight showed and is more centrally for the rest of the country. not to mention they will probably rip of all fans if it is in twickers

Wasn't alluding to it being hosted there, was just saying it's an old school steeply banked stadia.

RFU would choke on their caviar sarnies at the thought of it anyway.

Must admit I'd not be as keen if it was at a stadium. Ok to watch a rugby match but not exactly York Hall esque when it comes to being anywhere near the action.

yeah agree, watching 15 men running around is fine all you need to see is the man and space he's running into, you dont really need to look at close feints or close up shots that may glance or not. in stadiums you end up watching more on the screens than you live, pretty much defeating the purpose. its shame we havent got a indoor arena thats slightly bigger than the men

by TRUSSMAN66 Thu Feb 13, 2014 2:46 pm

There is a strong base of Boxing fans in Nottingham too It has to be said..

Very similar in a lot of ways..

by rob-glos Thu Feb 13, 2014 2:51 pm

Eddie said on SSN that they're talking to 7-8 stadiums.

Mentioned Wembley, OT, Twickenham, Millennium, City Ground (!), Emirates

Cardiff would be good under the roof.

by Izzi Thu Feb 13, 2014 2:56 pm

rob-glos wrote:Eddie said on SSN that they're talking to 7-8 stadiums.

Mentioned Wembley, OT, Twickenham, Millennium, City Ground (!), Emirates

Cardiff would be good under the roof.

To be fair if they've mentioned Twickers it would be good...

You'd use the corner of 2 stands and have big temporary seating on the open 2 sides. You'd probably get say 25000 in to the fixed seats and be able to build another 20000 in there via temporary stands? At least?

Easy to get to via overground/district lines/main line which gets you back around most of the city.

I vote Twickers. Eddie, make it happen old boy.. That's an order

by Rowley Thu Feb 13, 2014 2:57 pm

Have been to a couple in Cardiff Rob, cracking venue for a fight. As it is bang in the city centre there are countless bars and places to eat, they also do not rip you off as there are so many of them.

by compelling and rich Thu Feb 13, 2014 2:59 pm

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:There is a strong base of Boxing fans in Nottingham too It has to be said..

Very similar in a lot of ways..

i would say theres a lot of froch fans in nottingham, i doubt many who fill the capital fm arena would be there if froch wasnt fighting. ive been in in the men when its full when khans headlined, hayes headlined and obviously when hatton was there as well. men is the biggest indoor venue in britain, and its round the corner from liverpool where theres plenty of fight fans. not as bad for the scots and geordies to travel down as well. found there were quite a few of the above during the fights i mentioned. with a few added cockneys for the haye fight

by compelling and rich Thu Feb 13, 2014 3:01 pm

Rowley wrote:Have been to a couple in Cardiff Rob, cracking venue for a fight. As it is bang in the city centre there are countless bars and places to eat, they also do not rip you off as there are so many of them.

cardiff stadium does have a great location, rather have two Englishman fighting in england though. sod the welsh

by TRUSSMAN66 Thu Feb 13, 2014 3:02 pm

Must say If I'm George I'd rule Nottingham out..

Cheers may influence the judges..

He'll get a fairer deal in Manchester

by Izzi Thu Feb 13, 2014 3:08 pm

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:Must say If I'm George I'd rule Nottingham out..

Cheers may influence the judges..

He'll get a fairer deal in Manchester

Cheering won't stop him getting knocked out!

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