Mourhino: Wenger is a specialist in failure

by It Must Be Love Fri 14 Feb 2014, 6:02 pm

First topic message reminder :

http://www.sportpulse.net/content/mourhino-taunts-arsenals-trophyless-run-wenger-specialist-failure-13917

Trophy-less for 8 years, but Arsenal did have financial restraints. And remember Wenger did many years ago win titles.

by Fernando Sat 15 Feb 2014, 9:50 pm

Champagne_Socialist wrote:
Fernando wrote:
FreekShow wrote:
socal1976 wrote:
FreekShow wrote:Who'd have guessed that that Carling Cup final defeat to Birmingham in 2011 would still bear relevance today?

If Arsenal win the FA Cup this year is Wenger then in the clear?

I think so, I would love an FA cup win I think it would be a major success. Frankly, a league cup for me doesn't really count all that much in the analysis of the quality of a club. It just isn't much to brag about.

Agreed but had you won that LC there'd be none of this 9 years without a trophy stuff.

Think you have a big chance for the FA cup this year. Fancy you to win tomorrow and then there's only City to really worry about.

It doesn't bother me that much to be honest it's just a same excuse all fans throw out when their side are doing Poopie. Winning the league cup to be honest is basically going we're not doing well in the league so we're take the easy route whilst everyone puts Poopie sides out.

The only question id like to see answered, Arsene with loads of money could be successful tbh if he had an open chequebook, Could Mourinho do the same stuff Arsene has done on a limited budget? He'd throw a hissyfit and go money searching inside a year and a half. It's all about stroking his ego for Mourinho. you just have to look at his comments the year/day he threw his medal in the crowd.

to be fair he won europa league in 03 and then the champions league in 04 with porto who had a small budget. He also won the treble including the champions league with inter milan and he never spent that much money (mainly due to selling Ibra for like 60 million)

Porto were dominant in Portugal throughout them years the same with Inter. Juventus were still coming to terms with being back in Seria A they had Mellberg/Amauri/Tiago/Sissoko etc . It was all easy work for Jose.

by socal1976 Sat 15 Feb 2014, 9:52 pm

Champagne_Socialist wrote:
Fernando wrote:
FreekShow wrote:
socal1976 wrote:
FreekShow wrote:Who'd have guessed that that Carling Cup final defeat to Birmingham in 2011 would still bear relevance today?

If Arsenal win the FA Cup this year is Wenger then in the clear?

I think so, I would love an FA cup win I think it would be a major success. Frankly, a league cup for me doesn't really count all that much in the analysis of the quality of a club. It just isn't much to brag about.

Agreed but had you won that LC there'd be none of this 9 years without a trophy stuff.

Think you have a big chance for the FA cup this year. Fancy you to win tomorrow and then there's only City to really worry about.

It doesn't bother me that much to be honest it's just a same excuse all fans throw out when their side are doing Poopie. Winning the league cup to be honest is basically going we're not doing well in the league so we're take the easy route whilst everyone puts Poopie sides out.

The only question id like to see answered, Arsene with loads of money could be successful tbh if he had an open chequebook, Could Mourinho do the same stuff Arsene has done on a limited budget? He'd throw a hissyfit and go money searching inside a year and a half. It's all about stroking his ego for Mourinho. you just have to look at his comments the year/day he threw his medal in the crowd.

to be fair he won europa league in 03 and then the champions league in 04 with porto who had a small budget. He also won the treble including the champions league with inter milan and he never spent that much money (mainly due to selling Ibra for like 60 million)

He didn't need to spend much at Inter they were stacked and where league champions when he got there if my memory serves me right. That being said the debate is not so much that Jose is a bad manager. I think the guy is a great manager, but he is also an egotistical loudmouth and completely out of bounds with his comments on this occasion.

And now on the question of is Wenger a failure, I like the loyalty that he has shown to AFC and vice versa. And I like that he develops young players and doesn't always buy ready made stars. And the question bears to be asked would another manager given the same circumstances have done as well as Arsene. I mean the guy has one the league not once but 3 times and has had numerous trophies prior to this lengthy drought. As we have seen at United you can't always replace a person of huge caliber like that and get someone who performs to a similar standard. I wouldn't want all the coaching merry go around that has taken place at clubs like Spurs and Liverpool in recent years. I don't think that serves for the longterm success either.

by CFCNick Sat 15 Feb 2014, 9:53 pm

Hammersmith harrier wrote:
CFCNick wrote:
Hammersmith harrier wrote:
CFCNick wrote:
Ent wrote:
CFCNick wrote:
Ent wrote:Arsenal have always had money, do not lie.

They had the second highest expenditure in wages and transfer fees behind united and were second best.

Then Chelsea spent more and they became third best, city spent more and they are 4th best.

I really don't get the complaints about money, arsenal have more than the other 16 teams in the league and finish above them.

We finished 2nd the first season of Roman.

And the next decade? Trophy count?

Ferguson had the 3rd most money and won things, dominated the league for 5 years with Chelsea fully established.

Wenger won one league and 1 cup with his so called invincible and nothing with a squad containing rvp, fabregas, Nasir etc etc

If he meant 3rd as in trophy count in the last decade then we must be 2nd at least. Think we're 4th in England overall throughout the entire history of football with 26 honours (4 charity shield and two full members cups), we've won 13 under Roman. Last trophy before 2005 League Cup was 2000 FA Cup.
Last time I checked you were 7th, it has and always will go in order or league titles won.

Why should it? That's stupid.

Are you suggesting that a league cup, Europa league, cup winners cup or community shield or any other trophy is equal to the league title because it isn't Nick.

I'm just saying they shouldn't be discounted.

by Hammersmith harrier Sat 15 Feb 2014, 10:02 pm

On a side note, is Guardiola the luckiest manager in world football right now, takes over Riijkards Barcelona and then Heynckes Bayern.

by skyeman Sat 15 Feb 2014, 10:02 pm

Hammersmith harrier wrote:Can someone explain to me what is so bad about what Mourinho has said or is it just that he's taken a swipe at the manager of your beloved Arsenal?

I do love the excuses coming out already in case Arsenal don't win anything; 'our goals changed the moment we had injuries'.

I dislike the Gunners. Jose's comment was ill thought this time though because he is basically having a dig at 98% of managers who win zilch, which many former managers and players agreed with.

A plonker this time.

by Hammersmith harrier Sat 15 Feb 2014, 10:04 pm

How is he having a dig at 98% of managers, he was very specific with his criticism and has nothing to do with anyone other than Wenger, get a grip.

by Guest Sat 15 Feb 2014, 10:04 pm

Hammersmith harrier wrote:On a side note, is Guardiola the luckiest manager in world football right now, takes over Riijkards Barcelona and then Heynckes Bayern.

Dunno. Lucky to inherit a great squad at Barca but totally transformed their style of play as he is now doing with Bayern.

Abramovich would love him at Chelsea.

by Hammersmith harrier Sat 15 Feb 2014, 10:06 pm

He fine tuned the style of Barca something Riijkaard had already started, strange how Pep gets all the credit for turning an entertaining team into a boring one.

by skyeman Sat 15 Feb 2014, 10:07 pm

Hammersmith harrier wrote:How is he having a dig at 98% of managers, he was very specific with his criticism and has nothing to do with anyone other than Wenger, get a grip.

Because if one fails after the years obviously the others are failures too.

Why do you think King Gary spoke out against JOSE?

by Guest Sat 15 Feb 2014, 10:08 pm

Hammersmith harrier wrote:He fine tuned the style of Barca something Riijkaard had already started, strange how Pep gets all the credit for turning an entertaining team into a boring one.

Comparing Riikaard's Barca team to Peps is comparing Apples and Oranges.

by Hammersmith harrier Sat 15 Feb 2014, 10:09 pm

It doesn't work like that at all, he was being very specific to Wengers lack of recent at Arsenal, the success of other clubs is relative. Arsenal should be winning trophies, they have not that is failure, Moyes stabilising Everton into a comfortable mid table position was success.

by Hammersmith harrier Sat 15 Feb 2014, 10:10 pm

FreekShow wrote:
Hammersmith harrier wrote:He fine tuned the style of Barca something Riijkaard had already started, strange how Pep gets all the credit for turning an entertaining team into a boring one.

Comparing Riikaard's Barca team to Peps is comparing Apples and Oranges.

Take out the flamboyance of Ronaldinho and you have two very similar sides, I think Pep weakened them personally but i'd expect to be in the minority there.

by skyeman Sat 15 Feb 2014, 10:13 pm

Hammersmith harrier wrote:It doesn't work like that at all, he was being very specific to Wengers lack of recent at Arsenal, the success of other clubs is relative. Arsenal should be winning trophies, they have not that is failure, Moyes stabilising Everton into a comfortable mid table position was success.

And Mr Linekers comments about Jose going to far and being very disrespectful to managers.

It was stupid, come on.

by Champagne_Socialist Sat 15 Feb 2014, 10:13 pm

Fernando wrote:
Champagne_Socialist wrote:
Fernando wrote:
FreekShow wrote:
socal1976 wrote:
FreekShow wrote:Who'd have guessed that that Carling Cup final defeat to Birmingham in 2011 would still bear relevance today?

If Arsenal win the FA Cup this year is Wenger then in the clear?

I think so, I would love an FA cup win I think it would be a major success. Frankly, a league cup for me doesn't really count all that much in the analysis of the quality of a club. It just isn't much to brag about.

Agreed but had you won that LC there'd be none of this 9 years without a trophy stuff.

Think you have a big chance for the FA cup this year. Fancy you to win tomorrow and then there's only City to really worry about.

It doesn't bother me that much to be honest it's just a same excuse all fans throw out when their side are doing Poopie. Winning the league cup to be honest is basically going we're not doing well in the league so we're take the easy route whilst everyone puts Poopie sides out.

The only question id like to see answered, Arsene with loads of money could be successful tbh if he had an open chequebook, Could Mourinho do the same stuff Arsene has done on a limited budget? He'd throw a hissyfit and go money searching inside a year and a half. It's all about stroking his ego for Mourinho. you just have to look at his comments the year/day he threw his medal in the crowd.

to be fair he won europa league in 03 and then the champions league in 04 with porto who had a small budget. He also won the treble including the champions league with inter milan and he never spent that much money (mainly due to selling Ibra for like 60 million)

Porto were dominant in Portugal throughout them years the same with Inter. Juventus were still coming to terms with being back in Seria A they had Mellberg/Amauri/Tiago/Sissoko etc . It was all easy work for Jose.

Being dominant in the portugese league does not mean he should have won the europa league one year and then the champions league the next year.

by Guest Sat 15 Feb 2014, 10:13 pm

Hammersmith harrier wrote:
FreekShow wrote:
Hammersmith harrier wrote:He fine tuned the style of Barca something Riijkaard had already started, strange how Pep gets all the credit for turning an entertaining team into a boring one.

Comparing Riikaard's Barca team to Peps is comparing Apples and Oranges.

Take out the flamboyance of Ronaldinho and you have two very similar sides, I think Pep weakened them personally but i'd expect to be in the minority there.

Yeah you probably are Hammer. I absolutely loved watching the Barca team of 2008-11 but each to their own I suppose.

The dismantling of Man Utd in the CL final in 2011 was artistic.

by Hammersmith harrier Sat 15 Feb 2014, 10:14 pm

The day I start listening to Gary Linekers opinion is the day I give up on having my own mind.

Wenger accuses him of being scared of failure he should reap the consequences, Arsene should learn to keep his mouth shut in the first place.

by Guest Sat 15 Feb 2014, 10:15 pm

Yeah Lineker is a total prat, agreed.

by It Must Be Love Sat 15 Feb 2014, 10:16 pm

I don't think Jose was insulting 98% of managers, I think what he was saying was specific to Arsene Wenger and club of Arsenal's stature.

by It Must Be Love Sat 15 Feb 2014, 10:17 pm

Interesting post from an Arsenal fan pag on fb that was linked to me:

Is Arsene Wenger really a Failure? Part I

~Beginning

1) Till the early 90's, Everton (9 League titles) and Arsenal(10) were clubs with equal status in English Football below Liverpool(18) and above a rapidly rising UTD (7). Arsenal FC was the 16th richest club in Europe and the Board decided that the club needs a new big stadium to compete with the mega clubs. But for that they needs a new manager a pioneer was needed to push Arsenal into the modern era. And the chosen one was a little known French named Arsene Wenger. Since winning the title in the very 2nd year as a manager to the 'Invincible season truly marked a epic era of Arsene's class. In the first 8 years, Arsene won 3 PL trophies, 4 FA cups & 4 community shields challenging the mighty SAF...

~So what went wrong?

2006 : 420 million pounds Emirates stadium was inaugurated and many at the club knew that Arsenal has entered a transition and could go years without trophies and Arsene knew UCL qualification would be the sole Lifeline of this club. But the arrival of Roman and then the Shiekhs made the league more tougher. Look at Lyon and Marseille now, with the arrival of PSG and Monaco. Look how Lfc struggled when they lost UCL status. Roman Abrahomovich ended the long 8 year battle between Arsene Wenger and Sir Alex Fergusson which lasted from 1996 to 2004, during which SAF won 5 PL titles and AW won 3...

~But even Swansea and Wigan won the FA cup? DO we lack ambition?

We reached the UCL final in Paris in 2006. Reached League cup final in 2007 & 2011. We nearly won the league in 2007/08 but injuries derailed our season. Would those two 10 minute spells have made us an ambitious club??? Teams like Swansea and wigan, with their limited resources are overachieved last season, Newcastle punched above their weight two seasons ago and Middlesborough did in 2005 and 06.The fact is there are always going to be clubs that over perform or underperform in any given year.The True Test is the consistency in which any club can do it and Arsenal has been consistent as ever in the last 16 years(Most consistent in its whole history). So no one can question our Ambition. Many might say ok we could have won the Carling/Capitol cup or the FA cup at least? But can anyone say that we didn't even try to win?? We lost two Carling cup finals and mostly we played our youth team bcse of our tight budget. But the question arises if Arsenal wins the Capitol cup then we are ambitious? Capitol Cup in the recent years had finalists like Portsmouth,Birmingham and now Swansea and Bradford. Liverpool won it last time and everyone agrees that Cup games are unpredictable.So are Liverpool more ambitious than Arsenal as they won a trophy? Ask any Liverpool fan Whether they want a FA/Capitol cup(if they were in the tournament) or a top 4 finish, and I would definitely say that 90% would want a top 4 finish.

by Guest Sat 15 Feb 2014, 10:19 pm

When did Swansea win the FA Cup Laugh

And he forgot Pompey.

by Hammersmith harrier Sat 15 Feb 2014, 10:21 pm

Are there any Arsenal fans who can write coherent English?

by Champagne_Socialist Sat 15 Feb 2014, 10:21 pm

Starlight wrote:I don't think Jose was insulting 98% of managers, I think what he was saying was specific to Arsene Wenger and club of Arsenal's stature.

he was insulting Wenger but by saying wenger was a failure for not winning a trophy he was basically unintentionally insulting all managers who have gone trophyless.

by skyeman Sat 15 Feb 2014, 10:22 pm

Jeez. If you say that about one manager it applies to all about failure relative to whatever club size.

Lineker was not the only one!

by Guest Sat 15 Feb 2014, 10:23 pm

Hammersmith harrier wrote:Are there any Arsenal fans who can write coherent English?

Piers Morgan?

by Hammersmith harrier Sat 15 Feb 2014, 10:26 pm

skyeman wrote:Jeez. If you say that about one manager it applies to all about failure relative to whatever club size.

Lineker was not the only one!

Christ the clowns are out in force tonight, it was very specific to ONE manager not all managers.

by skyeman Sat 15 Feb 2014, 10:30 pm

As previously stated i am looking at this from a non Chelsea/Arsenal fans perspective.

IMO Jose made a comment which i think he now regrets unless his worse than the KP side of him thinks otherwise.

by skyeman Sat 15 Feb 2014, 10:33 pm

Hammersmith harrier wrote:
skyeman wrote:Jeez. If you say that about one manager it applies to all about failure relative to whatever club size.

Lineker was not the only one!
Christ the clowns are out in force tonight, it was very specific to ONE manager not all managers.

If you can not or wish not to see it then so be it.

The circus performers are normally the ones who have to resort to this level.

by Hammersmith harrier Sat 15 Feb 2014, 10:33 pm

I doubt Mourinho has given it a second thought since he said it to be honest, Wenger in my opinion and the view of many others is lucky to still be the manager.

by skyeman Sat 15 Feb 2014, 10:42 pm

Hammersmith harrier wrote:I doubt Mourinho has given it a second thought since he said it to be honest, Wenger in my opinion and the view of many others is lucky to still be the manager.

Of course Jose would'nt. Just wishful thinking on my part.

Wenger? At some clubs yes but the Gunners board and most fans love him. Loyalty.

by skyeman Sat 15 Feb 2014, 10:57 pm

Loyalty? Not a word synonymous with the Chelsea owner. Win or angel

by **Good Golly I'm Olly** Sat 15 Feb 2014, 11:41 pm

Champagne_Socialist wrote:
Starlight wrote:I don't think Jose was insulting 98% of managers, I think what he was saying was specific to Arsene Wenger and club of Arsenal's stature.

he was insulting Wenger but by saying wenger was a failure for not winning a trophy he was basically unintentionally insulting all managers who have gone trophyless.

I'm sure Chris Hughton was outraged by the comment Erm

by skyeman Sat 15 Feb 2014, 11:43 pm

Champagne_Socialist wrote:
Starlight wrote:I don't think Jose was insulting 98% of managers, I think what he was saying was specific to Arsene Wenger and club of Arsenal's stature.

he was insulting Wenger but by saying wenger was a failure for not winning a trophy he was basically unintentionally insulting all managers who have gone trophyless.

You have hit the nail on the head but his fans don't care to see it that way.

by **Good Golly I'm Olly** Sat 15 Feb 2014, 11:45 pm

FreekShow wrote:Who'd have guessed that that Carling Cup final defeat to Birmingham in 2011 would still bear relevance today?

On this Freek of course it does. That was a choke of biblical proportions.

by Hammersmith harrier Sat 15 Feb 2014, 11:47 pm

skyeman wrote:
Champagne_Socialist wrote:
Starlight wrote:I don't think Jose was insulting 98% of managers, I think what he was saying was specific to Arsene Wenger and club of Arsenal's stature.

he was insulting Wenger but by saying wenger was a failure for not winning a trophy he was basically unintentionally insulting all managers who have gone trophyless.

You have hit the nail on the head but his fans don't care to see it that way.

I'm no fan of Mourinho but I was born with at least one brain cell which is more than the pair of you.

by **Good Golly I'm Olly** Sat 15 Feb 2014, 11:52 pm

Right so in a comment specifically directed at Wenger (pretty disgracefully I must say), Mourinho is insulting every manager who hasn't won a trophy.

I've seen some rubbish on these boards, but that, that just might top it all

by skyeman Sat 15 Feb 2014, 11:53 pm

Hammersmith harrier wrote:
skyeman wrote:
Champagne_Socialist wrote:
Starlight wrote:I don't think Jose was insulting 98% of managers, I think what he was saying was specific to Arsene Wenger and club of Arsenal's stature.

he was insulting Wenger but by saying wenger was a failure for not winning a trophy he was basically unintentionally insulting all managers who have gone trophyless.

You have hit the nail on the head but his fans don't care to see it that way.
I'm no fan of Mourinho but I was born with at least one brain cell which is more than the pair of you.

It sounds like you are his Lisbon love child.

by skyeman Sat 15 Feb 2014, 11:55 pm

Olly wrote:
Champagne_Socialist wrote:
Starlight wrote:I don't think Jose was insulting 98% of managers, I think what he was saying was specific to Arsene Wenger and club of Arsenal's stature.

he was insulting Wenger but by saying wenger was a failure for not winning a trophy he was basically unintentionally insulting all managers who have gone trophyless.

I'm sure Chris Hughton was outraged by the comment

Depends whether the Canaries stay up Very Happy

by Guest Sat 15 Feb 2014, 11:56 pm

Olly wrote:Right so in a comment specifically directed at Wenger (pretty disgracefully I must say), Mourinho is insulting every manager who hasn't won a trophy.

I've seen some rubbish on these boards, but that, that just might top it all

Yeah it does come across as a bit daft.

Mourinho doesn't like Wenger, Wenger doesn't like Mourinho and a bitchfest ultimately ensues.

This might have been news in 2005.

by skyeman Sat 15 Feb 2014, 11:57 pm

Olly wrote:Right so in a comment specifically directed at Wenger (pretty disgracefully I must say), Mourinho is insulting every manager who hasn't won a trophy.

I've seen some rubbish on these boards, but that, that just might top it all

So all the former pros and managers are talking rubbish then in saying it was disrespectful to managers?

by Guest Sat 15 Feb 2014, 11:59 pm

skyeman wrote:
Olly wrote:Right so in a comment specifically directed at Wenger (pretty disgracefully I must say), Mourinho is insulting every manager who hasn't won a trophy.

I've seen some rubbish on these boards, but that, that just might top it all

So all the former pros and managers are talking rubbish then in saying it was disrespectful to managers?

Name the former players and managers.

I'm intrigued.

by skyeman Sat 15 Feb 2014, 11:59 pm

Hammersmith harrier wrote:Sounds like you're a flaming tool or is moron a bit more to the point.

Here you go again. An eloquent sort you are not. Wink

by Champagne_Socialist Sun 16 Feb 2014, 12:00 am

Olly wrote:Right so in a comment specifically directed at Wenger (pretty disgracefully I must say), Mourinho is insulting every manager who hasn't won a trophy.

I've seen some rubbish on these boards, but that, that just might top it all

if you have a disability (down syndrome for eg) and I make a horrible insult towards you and say that you are stupid because you have down syndrome. Yes I am only refering to you in my insult but i am unintentionally insulting all people with down syndrome by saying they are all stupid.

mourinho said wenger is a failure for not winning anything, therefore he is calling all managers who don't win anything failures.

by Duty281 Sun 16 Feb 2014, 12:00 am

What's the debate?

Success is relative to what sort of a club you are. Arsenal are the sort of club that belong in the top bracket; they should be winning trophies.

They're not. That's failure.

Coming 3rd or 4th in the league for Arsenal is failure.

Finishing in the top 4 every season, which is the bare minimum for Arsenal, is not success. The bare minimum is not success.

Failure. It's prolonged failure. Some might say Wenger is a specalist in failure...oh wait, Jose already has!

by Champagne_Socialist Sun 16 Feb 2014, 12:01 am

skyeman wrote:
Hammersmith harrier wrote:Sounds like you're a flaming tool or is moron a bit more to the point.

Here you go again. An eloquent sort you are not.

just put him on your ignore list, he is on my ignore list.

by Guest Sun 16 Feb 2014, 12:02 am

Champagne_Socialist wrote:
Olly wrote:Right so in a comment specifically directed at Wenger (pretty disgracefully I must say), Mourinho is insulting every manager who hasn't won a trophy.

I've seen some rubbish on these boards, but that, that just might top it all

if you have a disability (down syndrome for eg) and I make a horrible insult towards you and say that you are stupid because you have down syndrome. Yes I am only refering to you in my insult but i am unintentionally insulting all people with down syndrome by saying they are all stupid.

mourinho said wenger is a failure for not winning anything, therefore he is calling all managers who don't win anything failures.

Interesting analogy there.

by Hammersmith harrier Sun 16 Feb 2014, 12:03 am

I nor anyone else knew that knobhead, it's not like you've said it about 200 times already.

by Champagne_Socialist Sun 16 Feb 2014, 12:04 am

Duty281 wrote:What's the debate?

Success is relative to what sort of a club you are. Arsenal are the sort of club that belong in the top bracket; they should be winning trophies.

They're not. That's failure.

Coming 3rd or 4th in the league for Arsenal is failure.

Finishing in the top 4 every season, which is the bare minimum for Arsenal, is not success. The bare minimum is not success.

Failure. It's prolonged failure. Some might say Wenger is a specalist in failure...oh wait, Jose already has!

Yes success is relative and when you are competing with teams who have a larger budget and outspend you by over 50 million every year you have no right to be demanding trophies.

by Champagne_Socialist Sun 16 Feb 2014, 12:05 am

This post was made by Hammersmith harrier who is currently on your ignore list

by Hammersmith harrier Sun 16 Feb 2014, 12:06 am

Make that 201 times, why do the mods let such cretins infest this forum with their monotonous bullsh:t.

by skyeman Sun 16 Feb 2014, 12:07 am

Champagne_Socialist wrote:
skyeman wrote:
Hammersmith harrier wrote:Sounds like you're a flaming tool or is moron a bit more to the point.

Here you go again. An eloquent sort you are not.

just put him on your ignore list, he is on my ignore list.

Just can't take it seriously when they do that.

by Sponsored content

Is Jose correct?