Ireland vs Italy, 8th March

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IRELAND VS ITALY

Date: Saturday, March 8
Kick-off: 14:30 GMT
Venue: Aviva Stadium, Dublin
Referee: Nigel Owens (Wales)
Assistant referees: Pascal Gauzère (France), Greg Garner (England)
Television match official: Geoff Warren (England)
Assessor: Andrew Cole (Australia)

IRELAND TEAM wrote:15 Rob Kearney, 14 Andrew Trimble, 13 Brian O'Driscoll, 12 Gordon D'Arcy, 11 Dave Kearney, 10 Jonathan Sexton, 9 Conor Murray, 8 Jamie Heaslip, 7 Chris Henry, 6 Iain Henderson, 5 Paul O'Connell (c), 4 Devin Toner, 3 Mike Ross, 2 Rory Best, 1 Cian Healy.

16 Sean Cronin, 17 Jack McGrath, 18 Martin Moore, 19 Rhys Ruddock, 20 Jordi Murphy, 21 Eoin Reddan, 22 Paddy Jackson, 23 Fergus McFadden.

ITALY TEAM wrote:15 Luke McLean, 14 Angelo Esposito, 13 Michele Campagnaro, 12 Gonzalo Garcia, 11 Leonardo Sarto, 10 Luciano Orquera, 9 Tito Tebaldi, 8 Robert Barbieri, 7 Paul Derbyshire, 6 Joshua Furno, 5 Marco Bortolami (c), 4 Quentin Geldenhuys, 3 Martin Castrogiovanni, 2 Leonardo Ghiraldini, 1 Alberto de Marchi

16 David Giazzon, 17 Michele Rizzo, 18 Lorenzo Cittadini, 19 Antonio Pavanello, 20 Manoa Vosawai, 21 Edoardo Gori, 22 Tommaso Allan, 23 Andrea Masi

If we win this game by a larger margin than the winners of the other two games achieve then it's very, very simple- we set up a Cup Final for ourselves in Paris to win the Championship. We do already have the best points difference but we have a chance to settle the issue of points difference beyond all doubt and make this a very simple equation. An Ireland win in Paris, and we are champions. We are out to score and Joe Schmidt has named his strongest available team.

Italy have chosen to rotate their squad with half an eye on targeting the final game against England, Sergio Parisse is rested along with the first choice halfbacks in a team with a more experimental look. Tito Tebaldi and Andrea Masi make long awaited returns to the Italian match day squad and Luciano Orquera will hope to recapture the form which saw him perform so well in some famous Italian victories in the 2013 campaign.

There'll be plenty of applause for a retiring legend... but no room for sentiment. A ruthless and clinical performance is required.

ME-109 wrote:Rewatched the game...on the occasions we got the ball out wide there was space and we made ground. Unfortunately we spent an awful lot of time going up the middle and when we did go wide lets just say execution, speed of thought and just speed etc was missing.

Yes we know you think the "Zeeman" should be playing.

GunsGerms wrote:

ME-109 wrote:Rewatched the game...on the occasions we got the ball out wide there was space and we made ground. Unfortunately we spent an awful lot of time going up the middle and when we did go wide lets just say execution, speed of thought and just speed etc was missing.

Yes we know you think the "Zeeman" should be playing.

You could change that to anyone with some bit of acceleration or who doesnt require a minder to help them around the field...if it wasnt a tragedy seeing Average Dave being caught up by and tap tackled by a lock it would have been hilarious.

geoff998rugby wrote:

Submachine wrote:Can't see Henderson starting in the backrow if POM is not fit. .

Ryan would cover 2nd row if Henderson plays

My point is, why would you start a second row who can play 6 when you have plenty of specialist backrows to choose from?

Henderson is as much a 6 as a lock this year.

He offers pace and ball carrying - which sans SOB we have in short supply
I think Schmidt would prefer that to:

- Picking Murphy who is really new to this level
- Picking 2 7's (Henryand TOD)
- Bringing in someone new who has not been part of the set up so far

http://www.independent.ie/videos/sport/joe-schmidt-says-he-is-watching-simon-zebo-very-closely-30040533.html

Expect minimal changes to the starting 15 and even less in the matchday 23

Good.

Enjoyed his summary of Average Daves contribution..he can catch and tackle (didnt mention being caught by a lock though)...at least he seems to know some of the basic requirements of a professional rugby player.

rodders wrote:

Notch wrote:Where is this BOD stuff coming from?

The man himself was quite back handed with his compliments after the Scotland game, inferring that Marshall wasn't quite ready.

Do you have a link to this, rodders?

geoff998rugby wrote:Henderson is as much a 6 as a lock this year.

He offers pace and ball carrying - which sans SOB we have in short supply
I think Schmidt would prefer that to:

- Picking Murphy who is really new to this level
- Picking 2 7's (Henryand TOD)
- Bringing in someone new who has not been part of the set up so far

According to reports POM will be fine but I still don't think Henderson has the work rate for an international backrow that Schmidt demands notwithstanding his undoubted pace and strength on the ball.

Well nobody can say that he gives typical no-commitment-to-the-question-asked answers.

He explains his reasoning clearly and yet he's also learning himself and admits it -
He's nervous about losing momentum and he's in a conundrum between choosing other players and risking an upset in rhythm - with sticking to current options when alternatives might even increase team gains.

He's feeling he pressure certainly - But - he's learning all the while.

… in other words Fly, paralysed in his conservatism.

On paper you wqould say the Ireland will win this game at a canter. But write Italy off at your peril. They (Italy) uisualy have one good game in their locker in the 6ns and this game could just be the one game they put Ireland to the sword.

It would be a trmendous effort on Italys part, but they are capable of a shock.

Sin é wrote:… in other words Fly, paralysed in his conservatism.

You call it conservatism and I'll call it top of the Leader Board.

majesticimperialman wrote:On paper you wqould say the Ireland will win this game at a canter. But write Italy off at your peril. They (Italy) uisualy have one good game in their locker in the 6ns and this game could just be the one game they put Ireland to the sword.

It would be a trmendous effort on Italys part, but they are capable of a shock.

Maybe they won't be in a hurry to play that game and will leave it over to the following week?

Sexton has a thumb injury aparently and could miss the Italy game.

GunsGerms wrote:Sexton has a thumb injury aparently and could miss the Italy game.

Is it the thumb on the hand he passes with or the other one?

In that press conference, Schmidt said Sexton could still pass an everything and they were just waiting for a few scan results.

He's not ruled out of Racing Metro vs Castres, at least not yet. No comfort to us if he plays and exacerbates any problem he may or may not have though.

That said, it would be good to see Paddy Jackson get a run. If Jackson performs like he did against Samoa I don't think we lose anything for the Italian game. I'd only rest Sexton if there was a genuine injury doubt but I'd have a lot of confidence in Jackson to come in and do the business.

I would like to at least see Zebo on the Bench he can cover Fullback and wing. POM should be rested as were going to need beast Mode when we play the French. Henry Heaslip and Henderson offers great Balance in the Backrow given that Heaslip seams to focus more on the collisions on breakdown rather than carrying

I do just feel this game is made for someone who can take the tackle and keep moving forward- we don't have anyone in the back five of the pack with Hendersons strength.

He's unfortunately had an up and down season in terms of injuries and hasn't played much back row this year. There are definite rough edges to his game. But we don't have anyone else who has the physical attributes he has. We could use at the very least a good cameo for him off the bench.

Well, yes, its always a good thing to have ball carriers in the pack rodders. But there are a lot of games that we've played under a few different coaches where we've compensated for a lack of powerful ball carriers with accuracy in our kicking game and by outsmarting teams at the breakdown. Our lack of someone with raw power is made up for by being smart and clinical in other areas.

Against Wales we barely took them through the phases, we did a job on them up front though and we kicked smartly. I'm hoping we have a little more ambition than that next time out.

Agreed, the lack of go forward was a problem against England.

And then you deleted your comment and made me look a bit mad

I have no idea what you are talking about notch ....   

SecretFly wrote:

majesticimperialman wrote:On paper you wqould say the Ireland will win this game at a canter. But write Italy off at your peril. They (Italy) uisualy have one good game in their locker in the 6ns and this game could just be the one game they put Ireland to the sword.

It would be a trmendous effort on Italys part, but they are capable of a shock.

Maybe they won't be in a hurry to play that game and will leave it over to the following week?

Yes you could be right there. After all England are the only team that have never lost too Italy since they joined the 6ns.

majesticimperialman wrote:

SecretFly wrote:

majesticimperialman wrote:On paper you wqould say the Ireland will win this game at a canter. But write Italy off at your peril. They (Italy) uisualy have one good game in their locker in the 6ns and this game could just be the one game they put Ireland to the sword.

It would be a trmendous effort on Italys part, but they are capable of a shock.

Maybe they won't be in a hurry to play that game and will leave it over to the following week?

Yes you could be right there. After all England are the only team that have never lost too Italy since they joined the 6ns.

Pretty sure they have both lost in this campaign

I think ball carriers is a real necessity. I'm only watching the England game now (first half done) so can't comment with the same sort of knowledge as everyone.

1) Ball carrying is a necessity as Healy isn't being used there enough so we need further options. Henderson, Murphy, TOD, Marshall are the options. Wish Tuohy was available.

2) Attacking Italy from the off is a good shout none of this wear them down crap. Attack from 0-80.

3) We need more attacking threat in the back 3. Make Italy kicking into a really bad option for them. Zebo is getting touted for beating Zebre seconds (laughable stuff) but he is a good runner and if he has a good game this weekend then he should be in.

4) Get quick ball is going to be massive, I can see Reddan being selected for the "home game" the way Schmidt did for Leinster. Would be a good call IMO if Reddan plays well this weekend.

5) Time to get the backline moves out of the locker Joe.

Healy-Best-Ross
Toner-POC

Worth staying with the strong and solid tight 5 and then bringing on runners like Moore and Croinin.

POM-Heaslip-Murphy

I would keep POM in and would hold Henderson as lock replacement. Murphy in for Henry to provide that go forward ball and a strong, athletic ball carrying option.

Murray-Sexton
Marshall-BOD

I think we need Marshall's ability at getting over the gainline. Simple as.

Kearney-Kearney-Trimble

I'd put Zebo on the bench.


Healy-Best-Ross
Toner-POC
POM-Heaslip-Murphy
Murray-Sexton
Marshall-BOD
Kearney-Kearney-Trimble

Cronin-McGrath-Moore-Henderson-TOD-Reddan-Jackson-Zebo

pete (buachaill on eirne) wrote:I think we need Marshall's ability at getting over the gainline. Simple as.

I think so Pete - D'arce is working hard in there at 12 but really our outside backs are never really getting on the front foot or in behind the defensive line.

I think both Trimble and Dave Kearney have looked very balanced, very solid in defence and fairly dangerous in attack. In this regard Zebo, Bowe, Fitzgerald are red herrings with regards improving our back play.

We need a bit more from the pack in terms of ball carrying and a bit more creativity at 9-12. Murray and Sexton have taken the wrong option at times and D'arcy is one dimensional with the ball these days.

That said I don't think we have that much strike force in the backs generally so don't see us as a side who are going to score a lot of tries from the 3/4s. We can improve our execution a bit but our strengths are more without the ball than with it just now I believe. There just aren't many Irish backs who make you get out of the seat when they have the ball.

I think some people are expecting too much, too soon from Schmidt.

Spot on Rodders

Changing wingers is like rearranging the deck chairs on the Titanic.
It might help but it is largely irrelevant

Creative at 9-12 improving is the key (Sexton was poor at the weekend)

As to the backrow - by all means get a ball carrier at 6 but dont make the mistake of ditching a 7, to have a2nd one, - Henry or TOD must play

Attacking Italy from the off is a good shout none of this wear them down crap. Attack from 0-80.

One point to remember is that especially in the pack Italy are getting on in years.

If we are going to put a lot of points on them then I think most of the damage will be done in the last 20 mins.

If I were Italy the last thing I'd like to see with 20 to go is a player like Gilroy / Zebo coming on and running at me.

 Each to there own - the last thing I would want is Stephen Ferris running at me - at any time

geoff998rugby wrote: Each to there own - the last thing I would want is Stephen Ferris running at me - at any time    

I disagree Geoff ....... I'd love to see Stephen Ferris running at you .....

Look if we want "ball carriers" (the new Black in the Rugby Union world - after a nice tour of duty by "Natural 7s") - but if Ireland want them then we're just going to have to Meatify a half a dozen guys for the purpose - and Quick if we want them at the right weight for the WC.

Meatify is my new buzz word then - as I'm tiring of "Ball Carrier"

POM would be the first one I'd experiment on.  Then I'd see about bulking up Toner's legs - make him a Giant 'North' - little head, two bullocks for thighs.

geoff998rugby wrote:Spot on Rodders

Changing wingers is like rearranging the deck chairs on the Titanic.

Its an interesting way of putting it but I dont think Average Dave and Handy Andy are that bad..(just not that good either)

I don't think ball carriers are new fly, just we always had go to guys like Wood, Wallace, Leamy, D'arcy (pre 2008), Maggs, Rob Henderson and laterly Ferris, O'Brien, Heaslip etc.

Now we are struggling a bit on this front- Heaslip was repeatedly targeted by England and it left us shy of options. Life is a lot easier if you are on the front foot.

rodders wrote:I don't think ball carriers are new fly, just we always had go to guys like Wood, Wallace, Leamy, D'arcy (pre 2008), Maggs, Rob Henderson and laterly Ferris, O'Brien, Heaslip etc.

Now we are struggling a bit on this front- Heaslip was repeatedly targeted by England and it left us shy of options. Life is a lot easier if you are on the front foot.

It isnt all about being big and busting through holes. Cruden who isnt particularly big makes lots of yards for NZ for example by attacking space and putting players into space. If you dont have SOB in your team try something else. Mix it up.

rodders wrote:I don't think ball carriers are new fly, just we always had go to guys like Wood, Wallace, Leamy, D'arcy (pre 2008), Maggs, Rob Henderson and laterly Ferris, O'Brien, Heaslip etc.

Now we are struggling a bit on this front- Heaslip was repeatedly targeted by England and it left us shy of options. Life is a lot easier if you are on the front foot.

Rodders...we all know the 'interview' has become a lot tougher for them.  

"Ball Carriers" must now try to pass specialist "Ball Carriers".  

Ball carrying isn't just an extra angle a skilled player might have in his repertoire, the players come that way; designed specifically to do a tactical job of punching holes and staying on their feet ready to offload when they get behind the defensive wall.  
That design is big (preferably with a dose of Southern Comfort Islander blood ), powerful, direct running players with an ability to withstand impacts and collisions on a weekly basis.

We've already said in the last few years that Ireland don't have the players for that kind of game - the SA version that we all criticised as being a mismatch for our players when Smal and Kidney were trying it.

England are designing players (finding the perfect solution "Ball Carriers")  We're waiting for skilled players who might have a handy extra skill in pummelling through a wall.  Even O'Brien doesn't find that job so easy at International level anymore.

If we want Ball carriers - we need to think of it scientifically, not simply say we had players who could do it and we're waiting for some more to emerge that might be able to do it later.  Even the wing North - he's designed.  He gets his puroposeful training to strengthen his under-carriage, he gets his specialist running assistance.  It isn't chance that North operates and looks like North.

You can't just get a guy to put on extra muscle and suddenly he is as powerful as North though. Some players frames won't handle it and some players are just naturally that powerful. Henderson is such a player. It's just that he has other rough edges to his game but at home against Italy they might not be as exposed as much.

Same for Luke Marshall. I would have D'Arcy and O'Mahony ahead of them for the big away games and the big tests against SH nations but in this game, those two young lads with their pace and physicality could be very useful indeed. There are drawbacks to the fact they are still developing as players but they probably bring enough to the table in Round 4 that I'm not worried about that.

Notch wrote:You can't just get a guy to put on extra muscle and suddenly he is as powerful as North though.

North is designed. He knows it - there have been interviews where he's talked about it. Of course you need a grounding as a skilled player - but from there on many of these teams 'design' through methods and systems. North has his body contours for specific reasons and specific strengths.

Yeah, but he's also been blessed with a specific body that can handle such conditioning. It's not like we're sitting on a number of potential George Norths that we just don't bother to put on the right training programme.

Move Cian Healy to the wing, problem solved.

ME-109 wrote:Move Cian Healy to the wing, problem solved.

Don't be ridiculous. Healy is a 12.

Notch wrote:You can't just get a guy to put on extra muscle and suddenly he is as powerful as North though.

Damn don't tell me those daily sets push ups and extra portion of glens or antrim spuds were for nothing.

ME-109 wrote:

geoff998rugby wrote:Spot on Rodders

Changing wingers is like rearranging the deck chairs on the Titanic.

Its an interesting way of putting it but I dont think Average Dave and Handy Andy are that bad..(just not that good either)

I think you miss the point - bringing Zebo, Earls, Gilroy, Fitz, Bowe etc would not address the fundamental reason our attack is not what it should be.

Our luck of punch in the backs is not because of Trimble or Kearney coming up short.

geoff998rugby wrote:

ME-109 wrote:

geoff998rugby wrote:Spot on Rodders

Changing wingers is like rearranging the deck chairs on the Titanic.

Its an interesting way of putting it but I dont think Average Dave and Handy Andy are that bad..(just not that good either)

I think you miss the point - bringing Zebo, Earls, Gilroy, Fitz, Bowe etc would not address the fundamental reason our attack is not what it should be.

Our luck of punch in the backs is not because of Trimble or Kearney coming up short.

Well we did get the ball wide on a number of occasions last weekend and nothing much happened. Except for Average Dave being run down by a lock....Your right using the Titanic analogy might not be correct. Its more like an OAPs cruise..

ME-109 wrote:

geoff998rugby wrote:

ME-109 wrote:

geoff998rugby wrote:Spot on Rodders

Changing wingers is like rearranging the deck chairs on the Titanic.

Its an interesting way of putting it but I dont think Average Dave and Handy Andy are that bad..(just not that good either)

I think you miss the point - bringing Zebo, Earls, Gilroy, Fitz, Bowe etc would not address the fundamental reason our attack is not what it should be.

Our luck of punch in the backs is not because of Trimble or Kearney coming up short.

Well we did get the ball wide on a number of occasions last weekend and nothing much happened. Except for Average Dave being run down by a lock....Your right using the Titanic analogy might not be correct. Its more like an OAPs cruise..

Im not sure that bringing in Zebo to throw a few shapes on the wing, crack a few jokes , make a Z shape with his hands or do the odd flick or two would have made much difference either.

Who said anything about Zebo...(you are getting obsessed Guns)

ME-109 wrote:Who said anything about Zebo...(you are getting obsessed Guns)

Sorry the "Zeeman". You havent shut up about him since the six nations started.

Havent said anything much about him lately as he isnt going to be taken into consideration. Just pointing out the deficiencies that we currently appear to have...maybe someone should tell Joe its not the HC...

ME-109 wrote:Havent said anything much about him lately as he isnt going to be taken into consideration. Just pointing out the deficiencies that we currently appear to have...maybe someone should tell Joe its not the HC...

Seems strange not to be focusing on the vast improvements he has made on the teams performances rather than the things that still need some work.

Englands progress for example has been in phases and methodical. You can plot their improvement as follows as I see it.

-Lancaster came in an firstly improved dicipline. Adopoted a zero tolerance stance.
-England then build a simple game plan around a cohesive pack, competitive breakdown and strong set pieces and very basic back moves.
- Backs slowly become more cohesive, mistakes decrease and endevour increases.

Schmidt similarly in my opinion has deconstructed our team and started from the start too. Improvements so far include:

Dicipline - less penalties than ever.
Defence - 1 try conceded in three games.
Set piece - scrum, lineout and maul have improved.
Organisation - Everyone seems to have a better idea what their role in each scenario.
Tactics - There have been different tactics for every game and we are no longer predictable.

That is a lot of improvements. Flair and attacking nous are usually the last things to come once the basics are mastered and confidence and cohesion improves. We are on the right road to achieving that.

It's not the HC, ME ...how right you are.  

First two games lulled us into a false sense of security that it was a level far below HC....

England wakened Joe up right on time.  "This game is like bloody HEC!"

So he still has a semi final and a final to go.  Usually plenty of time for him to cook up something tasty. He should be better from here on in.  

Thanks Stuart.  We owe you.