Ireland vs Italy, 8th March

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IRELAND VS ITALY

Date: Saturday, March 8
Kick-off: 14:30 GMT
Venue: Aviva Stadium, Dublin
Referee: Nigel Owens (Wales)
Assistant referees: Pascal Gauzère (France), Greg Garner (England)
Television match official: Geoff Warren (England)
Assessor: Andrew Cole (Australia)

IRELAND TEAM wrote:15 Rob Kearney, 14 Andrew Trimble, 13 Brian O'Driscoll, 12 Gordon D'Arcy, 11 Dave Kearney, 10 Jonathan Sexton, 9 Conor Murray, 8 Jamie Heaslip, 7 Chris Henry, 6 Iain Henderson, 5 Paul O'Connell (c), 4 Devin Toner, 3 Mike Ross, 2 Rory Best, 1 Cian Healy.

16 Sean Cronin, 17 Jack McGrath, 18 Martin Moore, 19 Rhys Ruddock, 20 Jordi Murphy, 21 Eoin Reddan, 22 Paddy Jackson, 23 Fergus McFadden.

ITALY TEAM wrote:15 Luke McLean, 14 Angelo Esposito, 13 Michele Campagnaro, 12 Gonzalo Garcia, 11 Leonardo Sarto, 10 Luciano Orquera, 9 Tito Tebaldi, 8 Robert Barbieri, 7 Paul Derbyshire, 6 Joshua Furno, 5 Marco Bortolami (c), 4 Quentin Geldenhuys, 3 Martin Castrogiovanni, 2 Leonardo Ghiraldini, 1 Alberto de Marchi

16 David Giazzon, 17 Michele Rizzo, 18 Lorenzo Cittadini, 19 Antonio Pavanello, 20 Manoa Vosawai, 21 Edoardo Gori, 22 Tommaso Allan, 23 Andrea Masi

If we win this game by a larger margin than the winners of the other two games achieve then it's very, very simple- we set up a Cup Final for ourselves in Paris to win the Championship. We do already have the best points difference but we have a chance to settle the issue of points difference beyond all doubt and make this a very simple equation. An Ireland win in Paris, and we are champions. We are out to score and Joe Schmidt has named his strongest available team.

Italy have chosen to rotate their squad with half an eye on targeting the final game against England, Sergio Parisse is rested along with the first choice halfbacks in a team with a more experimental look. Tito Tebaldi and Andrea Masi make long awaited returns to the Italian match day squad and Luciano Orquera will hope to recapture the form which saw him perform so well in some famous Italian victories in the 2013 campaign.

There'll be plenty of applause for a retiring legend... but no room for sentiment. A ruthless and clinical performance is required.

If it was against a stronger team I think we'd see Ruddock at 6 and Henderson as a sub. Against Italy with Ireland chasing points, Henderson would be the way to go IMO.


I'd also wonder what role Henderson will play IF he starts. I suspect they'll have him roaming in the wide channels and get Heaslip to do POMs role. If Ruddock starts he'll be like a straight swap for POM so it should be interesting to see what they do.

At some stage over the next year I would like to see O'Mahony and Ruddock in the same back row. I still think O'Mahony is best at 8, which frees up the 6 spot if he can overtake Heaslip over the next few years there.

I'm really excited about this team selection because it is so unpredictable- we could have all named the side to face England the night before, I'm not sure if anyone will get all of the tight calls for this one correct.

I would be disappointed if theres not more than 2 changes.

I'm vacillating. Few hours ago, I was all for rotation now I'm thinking one or two changes   

Tbh, the argument about rotation all comes down to how able the team is to play these two matches at 100% back to back. And to the best of my knowledge none of the Irish S&C staff post on here so we're all just pishing in the wind!

Does doing the press conference earlier not pretty much guarantee McGrath and Henderson to start?

Other than that the only changes I wouldnt mind seeing is Jackson starting and Zebo been involved somewhere (unlikely). Even at that Id want Healy, Toner (or Murphy if Henderson is replacing POM) and Sexton on the bench.

The team I would like see:

1. McGrath < look to bring on Healy around 45-50 and let him loose fro 30 min, the Italian FR will not look forward to that.
2. Best < Cronin to come on with 20 to go as the game opens up
3. Moore
4. Henderson
5. POC > as soon as the result is safe, take him off
6. Murphy (would have liked TOD, but Murphy's carrying will be useful
7. Henry
8. Heaslip
9. Redden
10. Jackson
11. Zebo
12. Darcy
13. BOD > take him off as soon as the result is safe
14. Trimble
15. Kearney

16. Cronin
17. Healy
18. Ross
19. Ryan (give Toner a rest)
20. Ruddock
21. Murray
22. Sexton
23. Henshaw > on for BOD

A lot of changes (7) but I do think this team is good enough. My only fear would be that they are not used to playing together. But there is plenty of quality off the bench if we need it.

Well going by Gerry Thornley (can't remember the last time he was wrong) the only changes will be forced and at this stage it's looking like the same team as v England with Henderson in for POM.

MunsterMac wrote:Well going by Gerry Thornley (can't remember the last time he was wrong) the only changes will be forced and at this stage it's looking like the same team as v England with Henderson in for POM.

I think Thornley got that bundle of 'insight' straight from a horse's mouth in the guise of Plumtree:
"We've got two big games. We need all best players available. It's no time for resting them now – it's not the right time at all
We've got ourselves in a situation where we're top of the table, albeit by points difference and we've got two really tough matches.
We're not taking Italy lightly at all playing players in their first games or anything. If there's going to be changes I would say it's going to be forced."

Good call Thornley.  Keep dreaming us up the detail with that superb rugby brain of yours.

I would imagine Thornley gets most of his bundles of insight straight from the horse's mouth or at the very least the stable boy / trainer / jockey etc.

According to the papers today, the only change will be Henderson in for POM- but whether Sexton plays or not depends on how he does in this mornings training session, they will want to name him though.

Notch wrote:According to the papers today, the only change will be Henderson in for POM- but whether Sexton plays or not depends on how he does in this mornings training session, they will want to name him though.

Is the team named today?

Anyone know the last time there were only two Munster players in an Ireland team?

Ireland vs Samoa, Joe Schmidts first game in charge.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/rugby-union/24865350

Ireland: Rob Kearney; Tommy Bowe, Brian O'Driscoll, Gordon D'Arcy, Fergus McFadden; Paddy Jackson, Conor Murray; Jack McGrath, Rory Best, Mike Ross; Devin Toner, Mike McCarthy; Peter O'Mahony, Chris Henry, Jamie Heaslip.

Replacements: Sean Cronin for Best 61, Cian Healy for McGrath 61, Declan Fitzpatrick for Ross 61, Paul O'Connell for O'Mahony 54, Sean O'Brien for Henry 35, Eoin Reddan for Murray 60, Ian Madigan for O'Driscoll 71, Dave Kearney for Bowe 61

Also Ireland vs Australia the week after.

Ireland: R. Kearney, Bowe, O'Driscoll, Marshall, McFadden, Sexton, Reddan, Healy, Best, Ross, Toner, O'Connell, O'Mahony, O'Brien, Heaslip.

Replacements: Henshaw for R. Kearney (73), Madigan for Sexton (41), Murray for Reddan (56), Cronin for Best (65), Archer for Ross (65), McCarthy for Toner (70), McLaughlin for O'Brien (73).

Not used: McGrath.

To be fair, if there are only two Munster players in the 23 then it's the lowest since Schmidt took over... four being the highest I think!

Munster fans must be beginning to feel like Ulster fans did for pretty much the whole decade between 2000 and 2010!

GunsGerms wrote:Anyone know the last time there were only two Munster players in an Ireland team?

I'd say about the 1999 World Cup - and we all know how that went for Ireland.

Notch wrote:To be fair, if there are only two Munster players in the 23 then it's the lowest since Schmidt took over... four being the highest I think!

Munster fans must be beginning to feel like Ulster fans did for pretty much the whole decade between 2000 and 2010!

I think Munster will have a very small representation with Schmidt in charge. I don't think his style of coaching suits the Munster mentality. Munster would never hire Schmidt as a coach either - Penney & Schmidt are chalk and cheese in style.

I dunno man, O'Connell seems to like him.

Sin é wrote:

Notch wrote:To be fair, if there are only two Munster players in the 23 then it's the lowest since Schmidt took over... four being the highest I think!

Munster fans must be beginning to feel like Ulster fans did for pretty much the whole decade between 2000 and 2010!

I think Munster will have a very small representation with Schmidt in charge. I don't think his style of coaching suits the Munster mentality. Munster would never hire Schmidt as a coach either - Penney & Schmidt are chalk and cheese in style.

and yet we keep being told that Schmidt is getting Ireland to play "the Munster way".

Maybe Munster players arent the best in their positions in Ireland right now Sin? Munster is the third province in Ireland right now so is it not logical that they have the least representation?

Not sure who else from Munster actually warrents selection right now.

Notch wrote:I dunno man, O'Connell seems to like him.

How has he displayed this 'like' in particular?

O'Connell liked Eddie, Geech, Deccie, Gatland, Tony McGahan, Laurie Fisher etc. etc. He is an easy going guy.

Sin é wrote:

Notch wrote:I dunno man, O'Connell seems to like him.

How has he displayed this 'like' in particular?

O'Connell liked Eddie, Geech, Deccie, Gatland, Tony McGahan, Laurie Fisher etc. etc. He is an easy going guy.

Even ROG, Munster idol, keeps going on about how great Schmidt is.

If ROG told Munster fans the world was flat they would usually believe him. Why not believe him re Schmidt?

Sin é wrote:

Notch wrote:I dunno man, O'Connell seems to like him.

How has he displayed this 'like' in particular?

O'Connell liked Eddie, Geech, Deccie, Gatland, Tony McGahan, Laurie Fisher etc. etc. He is an easy going guy.

Just saying, all the noises about Schmidt have been positive for all the players including the Munster lads.

GunsGerms wrote:

Sin é wrote:

Notch wrote:To be fair, if there are only two Munster players in the 23 then it's the lowest since Schmidt took over... four being the highest I think!

Munster fans must be beginning to feel like Ulster fans did for pretty much the whole decade between 2000 and 2010!

I think Munster will have a very small representation with Schmidt in charge. I don't think his style of coaching suits the Munster mentality. Munster would never hire Schmidt as a coach either - Penney & Schmidt are chalk and cheese in style.

and yet we keep being told that Schmidt is getting Ireland to play "the Munster way".

Maybe Munster players arent the best in their positions in Ireland right now Sin? Munster is the third province in Ireland right now so is it not logical that they have the least representation?

Not sure who else from Munster actually warrents selection right now.

Other than Healy, I don't think any of the props are that much better than what Munster have.
I don't think Devin Toner or McCarthy is any better than DOC or Ryan.
I don't think Jordi Murphy is better than Tommy O'Donnell.
I don't think Madigan or Jackson are any better than Keatley is at the moment. Jackson may have more potential, but thats about it (though he actually isn't getting much of a look in).
As for Zebo being left out - LOL.

Notch wrote:

Sin é wrote:

Notch wrote:I dunno man, O'Connell seems to like him.

How has he displayed this 'like' in particular?

O'Connell liked Eddie, Geech, Deccie, Gatland, Tony McGahan, Laurie Fisher etc. etc. He is an easy going guy.

Just saying, all the noises about Schmidt have been positive for all the players including the Munster lads.

What do you expect them to say? They all loved Kidney at the time as well!

I don't know that they did, but it is true this is a honeymoon period. Too soon to draw conclusions.

Sin é wrote: I don't think his [Schmidt's] style of coaching suits the Munster mentality. Munster would never hire Schmidt as a coach either - Penney & Schmidt are chalk and cheese in style.

Not so.  Penney himself has found out - both in supposed practice and in the media hounding him - that his chalk style was practically anathema to the "Munster mentality".  The players are said to have found it tough going adapting to him in the first place and then, when the chips were down, we even had reports that the Munster players just by-passed his complex fussiness and used the Munster way to battle through HEC.

I don't believe a word of either interpretation - either that the Munster boys couldn't adapt to or didn't like his ways, or that they rebelled and did their own thing finally.

The fact is though that Penney got his marching orders - for whatever reasons - and a year before his designated time needed to complete his plans for Munster.  But one of those reasons must have been that Munster felt a coach with true Munster mentality was ready to take over

Sin é wrote:

Not sure who else from Munster actually warrents selection right now.

Other than Healy, I don't think any of the props are that much better than what Munster have.
I don't think Devin Toner or McCarthy is any better than DOC or Ryan.
I don't think Jordi Murphy is better than Tommy O'Donnell.
I don't think Madigan or Jackson are any better than Keatley is at the moment. Jackson may have more potential, but thats about it (though he actually isn't getting much of a look in).
As for Zebo being left out - LOL.[/quote]

Of course you dont.

Ryan was injured at the start so out of contention. Toner has stood up to the mark and there on merit.
Munster tight head props arent as good sorry.
Jordi and Tommy are both getting game time on the bench.
Keatley is fine but will probably never be capped for Ireland again. Not good enough.
Zebo needs to work on his work rate and attitude. He was completely off the boil in the Wolfhounds game v England. He was left out for a reason so hopefully he will learn from it and bounce back.

GunsGerms wrote:

Sin é wrote:

Notch wrote:I dunno man, O'Connell seems to like him.

How has he displayed this 'like' in particular?

O'Connell liked Eddie, Geech, Deccie, Gatland, Tony McGahan, Laurie Fisher etc. etc. He is an easy going guy.

Even ROG, Munster idol, keeps going on about how great Schmidt is.

If ROG told Munster fans the world was flat they would usually believe him. Why not believe him re Schmidt?

ROG is not being coached by Schmidt.

Look, the Leinster players love him because he suits them. He has them very well drilled with instructions not to deviate from the plan. Penney has Munster playing a more spontaneous type of rugby which allows for individual flair that Zebo has.

And the Munster and Ulster players love him because... they don't! They're all lying and sure doesn't everyone say the love whatever coach is in?

Gotcha   

Sin é wrote:

ROG is not being coached by Schmidt.

Look, the Leinster players love him because he suits them. He has them very well drilled with instructions not to deviate from the plan. Penney has Munster playing a more spontaneous type of rugby which allows for individual flair that Zebo has.

Unstructured headless chicken rugby? Thats what Scotland play and it isnt good enough for the six nations.

Schmidt's style, even though there have been many, has been described conservative, Munster way, forward dominated etc. Surely this would suit Munster players.

The truth is that Schmidt likes players that are ultra professional, team players, high work rate, stick to their role and the game plan. Thats why he is selecting players like POM, Trimble and Kearney etc.

GunsGerms wrote:

Sin é wrote:

ROG is not being coached by Schmidt.

Look, the Leinster players love him because he suits them. He has them very well drilled with instructions not to deviate from the plan. Penney has Munster playing a more spontaneous type of rugby which allows for individual flair that Zebo has.

Unstructured headless chicken rugby? Thats what Scotland play and it isnt good enough for the six nations.

Seriously? You cannot be that simple if you describe Munster rugby as headless chicken rugby so you can only be on the wind up...

GunsGerms wrote:

Sin é wrote:

Not sure who else from Munster actually warrents selection right now.

Other than Healy, I don't think any of the props are that much better than what Munster have.
I don't think Devin Toner or McCarthy is any better than DOC or Ryan.
I don't think Jordi Murphy is better than Tommy O'Donnell.
I don't think Madigan or Jackson are any better than Keatley is at the moment. Jackson may have more potential, but thats about it (though he actually isn't getting much of a look in).
As for Zebo being left out - LOL.

Of course you dont.

Ryan was injured at the start so out of contention. Toner has stood up to the mark and there on merit.
Munster tight head props arent as good sorry.
Jordi and Tommy are both getting game time on the bench.
Keatley is fine but will probably never be capped for Ireland again. Not good enough.
Zebo needs to work on his work rate and attitude. He was completely off the boil in the Wolfhounds game v England. He was left out for a reason so hopefully he will learn from it and bounce back.[/quote]

My point is that neither Toner or McCarthy is any better than Ryan or DOC. Now that Ryan is fit again, we'll see if he gets a look in. DOC is a better lock than McCarthy fullstop.
Tommy O'Donnell was just dropped. Jordi Murphy isn't close to being international standard yet.
Keatly is as deserving as a call-up as Paddy Jackson, and more so than Madigan.
Zebo's workrate and attitude is just fine down in Munster (according to his Munster coaches). He was coming back from injury in the Wolfhounds. He has been frozen out even though he has played several games now and I bet he is on his way back to Cork right now.

Sin é wrote:

GunsGerms wrote:

Sin é wrote:

Notch wrote:To be fair, if there are only two Munster players in the 23 then it's the lowest since Schmidt took over... four being the highest I think!

Munster fans must be beginning to feel like Ulster fans did for pretty much the whole decade between 2000 and 2010!

I think Munster will have a very small representation with Schmidt in charge. I don't think his style of coaching suits the Munster mentality. Munster would never hire Schmidt as a coach either - Penney & Schmidt are chalk and cheese in style.

and yet we keep being told that Schmidt is getting Ireland to play "the Munster way".

Maybe Munster players arent the best in their positions in Ireland right now Sin? Munster is the third province in Ireland right now so is it not logical that they have the least representation?

Not sure who else from Munster actually warrents selection right now.

Other than Healy, I don't think any of the props are that much better than what Munster have.
I don't think Devin Toner or McCarthy is any better than DOC or Ryan.
I don't think Jordi Murphy is better than Tommy O'Donnell.
I don't think Madigan or Jackson are any better than Keatley is at the moment. Jackson may have more potential, but thats about it (though he actually isn't getting much of a look in).
As for Zebo being left out - LOL.

JS thinks otherwise at the moment, you are right that there isn't a lot between a lot of Munster guys and the lads being selected. I will respectly disagree with Keatley and DOC however.
The problem is that the likes of Killer, Cronin, Ryan, TOD, JJ, Zebo who are good players, are in positions where Ireland have good depth so a coach will naturally good with the guy he knows on a 50/50 call.

I don't think Zebo is getting a bum deal, he is a very good player, he isn't as good as the hype around him. He will get his chance, it is up to him to take it, just in the same way DK and Trimble are.

Earls is another player that will be in the mix, at the moment as a wing only but if he can sort out his weaknesses (defence, decision making) there a big hole in the centres for him.

I don't think there is an anti-Munster conspircisy, and at the end of the day aren't we all Irish?

O'Donnell wasn't really dropped. He was sent to Munster to get more game time and then picked up a stinger which ruled him out of this game.

It seems that Schmidt views that as being a very 50/50 call which is entirely fair. Tbh, almost all of the players you've highlighted and pretty close to the guys ahead of them in terms of talent and form, with the exception of Keatley. I wouldn't be too worried if I was a Munster fan- Munster should reap the benefits of having more continuity in the Pro12 and less absences than they are used to.

Not surprising to see who started all the Munster stuff on this thread!

GunsGerms wrote:

Sin é wrote:

ROG is not being coached by Schmidt.

Look, the Leinster players love him because he suits them. He has them very well drilled with instructions not to deviate from the plan. Penney has Munster playing a more spontaneous type of rugby which allows for individual flair that Zebo has.

Unstructured headless chicken rugby? Thats what Scotland play and it isnt good enough for the six nations.

Schmidt's style, even though there have been many, has been described conservative, Munster way, forward dominated etc. Surely this would suit Munster players.

The truth is that Schmidt likes players that are ultra professional, team players, high work rate, stick to their role and the game plan. Thats why he is selecting players like POM, Trimble and Kearney etc.

The unstructured headless chicken rugby that has Munster with a home QF in the Heineken Cup?
Or having won the most games in the Rabo this season?

I'm not talking about the game plan, I'm talking about his approach to coaching. Its all very structured.
Munster's forward oriented game was always very skilled - Munster never relied on big bosh players that liked to run over other players. Munster always went for the players that liked to run around them.

Sin é wrote:

My point is that neither Toner or McCarthy is any better than Ryan or DOC. Now that Ryan is fit again, we'll see if he gets a look in. DOC is a better lock than McCarthy fullstop.
Tommy O'Donnell was just dropped. Jordi Murphy isn't close to being international standard yet.
Keatly is as deserving as a call-up as Paddy Jackson, and more so than Madigan.
Zebo's workrate and attitude is just fine down in Munster (according to his Munster coaches). He was coming back from injury in the Wolfhounds. He has been frozen out even though he has played several games now and I bet he is on his way back to Cork right now.

My point is the selections so far have been on merit.

Zebo's work rate and attitude for Ireland is not good enough though. He showed this on the summer tour and again in the wolf hounds game. There can be no complaints really.

Sin é wrote:
The unstructured headless chicken rugby that has Munster with a home QF in the Heineken Cup?
Or having won the most games in the Rabo this season?

I'm not talking about the game plan, I'm talking about his approach to coaching. Its all very structured.
Munster's forward oriented game was always very skilled - Munster never relied on big bosh players that liked to run over other players. Munster always went for the players that liked to run around them.

Yes. As soon as they are faced with a tough game they will panic and revert to up the jumper Munster rugby as always.

the-goon wrote:

Sin é wrote:

GunsGerms wrote:

Sin é wrote:

Notch wrote:To be fair, if there are only two Munster players in the 23 then it's the lowest since Schmidt took over... four being the highest I think!

Munster fans must be beginning to feel like Ulster fans did for pretty much the whole decade between 2000 and 2010!

I think Munster will have a very small representation with Schmidt in charge. I don't think his style of coaching suits the Munster mentality. Munster would never hire Schmidt as a coach either - Penney & Schmidt are chalk and cheese in style.

and yet we keep being told that Schmidt is getting Ireland to play "the Munster way".

Maybe Munster players arent the best in their positions in Ireland right now Sin? Munster is the third province in Ireland right now so is it not logical that they have the least representation?

Not sure who else from Munster actually warrents selection right now.

Other than Healy, I don't think any of the props are that much better than what Munster have.
I don't think Devin Toner or McCarthy is any better than DOC or Ryan.
I don't think Jordi Murphy is better than Tommy O'Donnell.
I don't think Madigan or Jackson are any better than Keatley is at the moment. Jackson may have more potential, but thats about it (though he actually isn't getting much of a look in).
As for Zebo being left out - LOL.

JS thinks otherwise at the moment, you are right that there isn't a lot between a lot of Munster guys and the lads being selected. I will respectly disagree with Keatley and DOC however.
The problem is that the likes of Killer, Cronin, Ryan, TOD, JJ, Zebo who are good players, are in positions where Ireland have good depth so a coach will naturally good with the guy he knows on a 50/50 call.

I don't think Zebo is getting a bum deal, he is a very good player, he isn't as good as the hype around him. He will get his chance, it is up to him to take it, just in the same way DK and Trimble are.

Earls is another player that will be in the mix, at the moment as a wing only but if he can sort out his weaknesses (defence, decision making) there a big hole in the centres for him.

I don't think there is an anti-Munster conspircisy, and at the end of the day aren't we all Irish?

My point is that it doesn't surprise me that Schmidt doesn't pick Munster players because they are not his kind of players and he won't be able to get the best out of them.

I like the way Zebo plays for Munster. I'd wouldn't be happy if Schmidt changed him into another Dave Kearney. (No disrespect to Kearney, he is a very good player - reminds me of the very under rated Ian Dowling).

GunsGerms wrote:

Sin é wrote:
The unstructured headless chicken rugby that has Munster with a home QF in the Heineken Cup?
Or having won the most games in the Rabo this season?

I'm not talking about the game plan, I'm talking about his approach to coaching. Its all very structured.
Munster's forward oriented game was always very skilled - Munster never relied on big bosh players that liked to run over other players. Munster always went for the players that liked to run around them.

Yes. As soon as they are faced with a tough game they will panic and revert to up the jumper Munster rugby as always.

Well, if that is what you have to do, it would be stupid not to. Its called winning rugby.

profitius wrote:Not surprising to see who started all the Munster stuff on this thread!

Just to be clear, it was Guns!

Notch wrote:O'Donnell wasn't really dropped. He was sent to Munster to get more game time and then picked up a stinger which ruled him out of this game.

It seems that Schmidt views that as being a very 50/50 call which is entirely fair. Tbh, almost all of the players you've highlighted and pretty close to the guys ahead of them in terms of talent and form, with the exception of Keatley. I wouldn't be too worried if I was a Munster fan- Munster should reap the benefits of having more continuity in the Pro12 and less absences than they are used to.

TOD was dropped. It was a mistake as well.

Only thing I'm worried about is the knock a lot of young players keep getting from Schmidt. You should be worried about Jackson and how his confidence will be with how little confidence Schmidt is showing in him.

Well, there's a bunch of you going to be shocked/surprised all over the place then in the future months because it won't be two Munster players only, Zebo will play for Schmidt, Zebo is Schmidt's kind of player (just exactly what kind of player does everyone thing Nacewa was - a boring 'yes' systems man who didn't indulge his own creative flights of fancy?)

And Schmidt Will get the best out of those players he chooses.

Now maybe we could get back to talking about Irish players rather than identifying them by the Provincial colours?

SecretFly wrote:Well, there's a bunch of you going to be shocked/surprised all over the place then in the future months because it won't be two Munster players only, Zebo will play for Schmidt, Zebo is Schmidt's kind of player (just exactly what kind of player does everyone thing Nacewa was - a boring 'yes' systems man who didn't indulge his own creative flights of fancy?)

And Schmidt Will get the best out of those players he chooses.

Now maybe we could get back to talking about Irish players rather than identifying them by the Provincial colours?

Obviously, Nacewa had a bit of a licence to be creative - but that would have been after about 3 or 4 years of coaching (between Auckland Blues & Leinster Blues) by Schmidt before he got to trust him.

Zebo ain't going to do that when he is mostly down in Munster.

Sin é wrote:
My point is that it doesn't surprise me that Schmidt doesn't pick Munster players because they are not his kind of players and he won't be able to get the best out of them.

I like the way Zebo plays for Munster. I'd wouldn't be happy if Schmidt changed him into another Dave Kearney. (No disrespect to Kearney, he is a very good player - reminds me of the very under rated Ian Dowling).

JS isn't Kidney, he won't put square pegs in round holes. If Zebo (or any player) doesn't have (or is not showing) the skills he is looking for then he won't pick him. It's horses for courses selection, varying depending on the gameplan.
But I think he does rate Zebo, our back play is developing, JS started up front and expand out. It's baby steps, he has a lot of work after the omni-shambles that the previous regime left the team in.
Zebo will get his chance, and I hope he nets a MoM hattrick when he does, it will mean Ireland will have most likely won the game. Besides, JS will want skills ADDED to his game not to replace them.

The team

Kearney
Trimble
BOD
D'Arcy
DK
Sexton
Murray

Heaslip
Henry
Henderson
POC
Toner
Ross
Best
Healy

Cronin
McGrath
Moore
Ruddock
Murphy
Redden
Jackon
McFadden

Disappointed with that, I think we are risking key players and missed a developement oppportunity.

Oh well, time to get behind the team.

Sin é wrote:

Notch wrote:O'Donnell wasn't really dropped. He was sent to Munster to get more game time and then picked up a stinger which ruled him out of this game.

It seems that Schmidt views that as being a very 50/50 call which is entirely fair. Tbh, almost all of the players you've highlighted and pretty close to the guys ahead of them in terms of talent and form, with the exception of Keatley. I wouldn't be too worried if I was a Munster fan- Munster should reap the benefits of having more continuity in the Pro12 and less absences than they are used to.

TOD was dropped. It was a mistake as well.

Only thing I'm worried about is the knock a lot of young players keep getting from Schmidt. You should be worried about Jackson and how his confidence will be with how little confidence Schmidt is showing in him.

Yeah and you've said in the past that Jacksons confidence might be ruined by other coaches throwing him in too soon!

Previous coaches have given him too much responsibility too quickly by backing him to start in some really big games, leading to a potential crisis of confidence. Other coaches don't give him enough responsibility or back him to start, which apparently also destroys his confidence. Pienaar playing an important role at 9 for Ulster also ruins his confidence although to be fair others have said the fact that Pienaar is in there takes the pressure off Jackson... possibly leading to an upsurge of confidence?

Poor wee Paddy, his confidence is under assault from every direction! I'm speaking in jest of course, but the truth is it'll take something really drastic to actually damage Jacksons confidence to a significant extent because he has a real natural confidence and mental strength that is part of his personality.

He's picking players from teams that are 1-2-3 in the Pro12 at the minute.  I wouldn't call it a drastic travesty of justice if he picks a player from one of those sides rather than the other.

It really doesn't take much for the old provincialism to come forward. We've won the most games, followed by we've earned the most points, followed by a there is a Nth-Sth divide while the men in the west shout out looking for attention.  That doesn't matter.  All that matters is Ireland.

Trimble was in the wilderness for years and people were always writing him off or calling for him to be called up. Now, no one is questioning him being there.  Because he is carrying out a role in the team that uses his strengths and doesn't put pressure on exposing his weaknesses.

It used to be in vogue to take a pop at Heaslip, Murray, Darcy and to an extent Ross.  Now the masses have shifted that towards Toner, Jackson, D Kearney and to an extent Ross.

Let's leave the provincial jersey in the club section.

Sin é wrote:
Obviously, Nacewa had a bit of a licence to be creative - but that would have been after about 3 or 4 years of coaching (between Auckland Blues & Leinster Blues) by Schmidt before he got to trust him.

Zebo ain't going to do that when he is mostly down in Munster.

The point is, Sin, that Schmidt could never be accused of dissuading creative players from being free or 'expressing' themselves.  No, not with his reputation for the rugby style his team played. And that is not the aspect of Zebo that was keeping him off the team either.  

None of us know the exact reasons but they certainly get hinted at if you listen to some of the comments about other players.  Plumtree I think said something like (paraphrasing): "it's not good enough doing something good in a game, you have to do many other things just as good and keep doing them"  So I guess the punishing demands of International concentration levels, International pace (for 80 mins), hitting all game markers (both defending, breakdown and attacking) is the initial audition every player has to pass.  And then onto the individual qualities they might have to embellish what Ireland does.

Pretty happy with the team as its going, and Henderson I'm sure will have a great game.

Only thing I would say is, why not give Jackson another test match of experience against Italy especially since Sexton had an injury, and wasn't his usual best last time out?

Apart from that, no complaints.