Ireland vs Italy, 8th March

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IRELAND VS ITALY

Date: Saturday, March 8
Kick-off: 14:30 GMT
Venue: Aviva Stadium, Dublin
Referee: Nigel Owens (Wales)
Assistant referees: Pascal Gauzère (France), Greg Garner (England)
Television match official: Geoff Warren (England)
Assessor: Andrew Cole (Australia)

IRELAND TEAM wrote:15 Rob Kearney, 14 Andrew Trimble, 13 Brian O'Driscoll, 12 Gordon D'Arcy, 11 Dave Kearney, 10 Jonathan Sexton, 9 Conor Murray, 8 Jamie Heaslip, 7 Chris Henry, 6 Iain Henderson, 5 Paul O'Connell (c), 4 Devin Toner, 3 Mike Ross, 2 Rory Best, 1 Cian Healy.

16 Sean Cronin, 17 Jack McGrath, 18 Martin Moore, 19 Rhys Ruddock, 20 Jordi Murphy, 21 Eoin Reddan, 22 Paddy Jackson, 23 Fergus McFadden.

ITALY TEAM wrote:15 Luke McLean, 14 Angelo Esposito, 13 Michele Campagnaro, 12 Gonzalo Garcia, 11 Leonardo Sarto, 10 Luciano Orquera, 9 Tito Tebaldi, 8 Robert Barbieri, 7 Paul Derbyshire, 6 Joshua Furno, 5 Marco Bortolami (c), 4 Quentin Geldenhuys, 3 Martin Castrogiovanni, 2 Leonardo Ghiraldini, 1 Alberto de Marchi

16 David Giazzon, 17 Michele Rizzo, 18 Lorenzo Cittadini, 19 Antonio Pavanello, 20 Manoa Vosawai, 21 Edoardo Gori, 22 Tommaso Allan, 23 Andrea Masi

If we win this game by a larger margin than the winners of the other two games achieve then it's very, very simple- we set up a Cup Final for ourselves in Paris to win the Championship. We do already have the best points difference but we have a chance to settle the issue of points difference beyond all doubt and make this a very simple equation. An Ireland win in Paris, and we are champions. We are out to score and Joe Schmidt has named his strongest available team.

Italy have chosen to rotate their squad with half an eye on targeting the final game against England, Sergio Parisse is rested along with the first choice halfbacks in a team with a more experimental look. Tito Tebaldi and Andrea Masi make long awaited returns to the Italian match day squad and Luciano Orquera will hope to recapture the form which saw him perform so well in some famous Italian victories in the 2013 campaign.

There'll be plenty of applause for a retiring legend... but no room for sentiment. A ruthless and clinical performance is required.

The big problem is people comapring Ireland this year to last year. It's not a fair comparison when you included the shedload of injuries, a lack of interest from players and poor coaching.

Is our backplay up to scratch? No. It hasn't been for a long time.

I think in the first half we should kick the points whenever they are on offer. Then in the second half maybe open up a bit more. We already have a 20-point advantage at the start of play, so if we do get down into the redzone and Italy are infringing to stop us scoring, kick the points and start again. If we keep the scoreboard ticking over then hopefully their heads will drop.

Nachos Jones wrote:Not a real surprise in the selections to be honest. Looking forward to the game on Saturday but cant see this backline running in loads of scores.

If we only concede 6-9 points we don't need to run in a load of tries.

1 try and 20 plus points from the boot is more than adequate.

I will say that in Gonzalo Garcia and Michele Campagnaro at 12/13, Italy do have a very decent partnership that can be attack at pace. Could be a very long day for BOD and D' Arcy.

GunsGerms wrote:

Nachos Jones wrote:Not a real surprise in the selections to be honest. Looking forward to the game on Saturday but cant see this backline running in loads of scores.

Even though they have already scored more tries this year than they did last year in the whole six nations? Cant please some people.

Well, Peter O'Mahony was never known for the number of tries he scored as a winger.

3 tries a game until Zebo got injured last 6Ns!

rodders wrote:

Nachos Jones wrote:Not a real surprise in the selections to be honest. Looking forward to the game on Saturday but cant see this backline running in loads of scores.

If we only concede 6-9 points we don't need to run in a load of tries.

1 try and 20 plus points from the boot is more than adequate.

Italy are not the walkover they once were, if Ireland are going to run away with it then it will be after the 60min mark. Irelands replacements are of a higher quality than Italy's.

Sin é wrote:

GunsGerms wrote:

Nachos Jones wrote:Not a real surprise in the selections to be honest. Looking forward to the game on Saturday but cant see this backline running in loads of scores.

Even though they have already scored more tries this year than they did last year in the whole six nations? Cant please some people.

Well, Peter O'Mahony was never known for the number of tries he scored as a winger.

3 tries a game until Zebo got injured last 6Ns!

Again Simon Zebo!!! He has the same try scoring ration as Dave Kearney. How come you arent constantly harping on for Tommy Bowe's inclusion. He is twice as good as Simon Zebo.

Nachos Jones wrote:I will say that in Gonzalo Garcia and Michele Campagnaro at 12/13, Italy do have a very decent partnership that can be attack at pace. Could be a very long day for BOD and D' Arcy.

You are obviously hoping it is anyway.

GunsGerms wrote:

Nachos Jones wrote:I will say that in Gonzalo Garcia and Michele Campagnaro at 12/13, Italy do have a very decent partnership that can be attack at pace. Could be a very long day for BOD and D' Arcy.

You are obviously hoping it is anyway.

No I am hoping that Ireland win, I am just not underestimating the opposition. Are you right in the head?

Actually, I am going to ignore you from now on. It seems very clear that you are only on here to antagonise people and look for a fight. Good luck with that.

Nachos Jones wrote:

GunsGerms wrote:

Nachos Jones wrote:I will say that in Gonzalo Garcia and Michele Campagnaro at 12/13, Italy do have a very decent partnership that can be attack at pace. Could be a very long day for BOD and D' Arcy.

You are obviously hoping it is anyway.

No I am hoping that Ireland win, I am just not underestimating the opposition. Are you right in the head?

Think you are underestimating your own team though oddly enough. Unless because you dont consider them your own team.

GunsGerms wrote:
Again Simon Zebo!!! He has the same try scoring ration as Dave Kearney. How come you arent constantly harping on for Tommy Bowe's inclusion. He is twice as good as Simon Zebo.

Yeah but his salary is twice as much so it evens itself out over the 80mins.

Italian back row is a lot weaker than last week. Both Zanni and parisse missing.  

Henderson running straight at orquera will be a frightening sight.


Good team from js. There was never going to be many changes in such a crucial match.


Pity to see this place has already fallen back to what it was like in kidneys last two years. Especially when we are TOP of the table  


Ireland by 20 +

rodders wrote:

GunsGerms wrote:
Again Simon Zebo!!! He has the same try scoring ration as Dave Kearney. How come you arent constantly harping on for Tommy Bowe's inclusion. He is twice as good as Simon Zebo.

Yeah but his salary is twice as much so it evens itself out over the 80mins.

It should be.

Golden wrote:Italian back row is a lot weaker than last week. Both Zanni and parisse missing.  

Henderson running straight at orquera will be a frightening sight.


Good team from js. There was never going to be many changes in such a crucial match.


Pity to see this place has already fallen back to what it was like in kidneys last two years. Especially when we are TOP of the table  


Ireland by 20 +

That sums it up for me too.

GunsGerms wrote:

rodders wrote:

GunsGerms wrote:
Again Simon Zebo!!! He has the same try scoring ration as Dave Kearney. How come you arent constantly harping on for Tommy Bowe's inclusion. He is twice as good as Simon Zebo.

Yeah but his salary is twice as much so it evens itself out over the 80mins.

It should be.

Yup, especially as Zebo runs twice as fast so spends half as much time on the ball. Its all about value for money.

Seriously Notch it's all well and good nit picking about what the founder considered to be 'a mature manner' or 'unpleasantness' or 'disrespect' but do you ever intend even waving that "big stick" of yours around in the air??

For God's sake gentlemen. This is getting farcical! Guns, you need to stop accusing all and sundry of hoping Ireland lose so the Munster fans can say I told you so. And everyone else needs to just drop the whole interprovincial schtick.

At this rate, I'm going to have to start a new thread so other posters can participate in a reasonable chat about Saturdays game without all this nonsense getting in the way. Someone actually makes an interesting, informed and relevant point about the Italian team for a change and he gets accused of Munster tribalism. I ask you  

So grow up or I'll rename this thread the interprovincial bitterness thread and start a new match thread.

Well the negativity is ridiculous. It does seem like some fans would prefer we lost on Saturday because x hasnt been picked or we arent playing x way. I mean honestly there is a championship win in our sights. Lots to be positive about.

I agree there's a massive amount to be positive about, especially when you compare where we are to the misery of last year, but at some point you just need to not be so paranoid.

I'm actually really disappointed no-one has mentioned our opponents- apparently we just have to turn up and if we don't put 40 points on them, Schmidt should resign immediately  

There's a lot of interesting stuff going on with Italy. Joshua Furno, one of the standout players of the tournament for me, is doing an Iain Henderson and switching from lock to blindside for . He's a very similar kind of placer to big Hendo actually and I'm looking forward to seeing how those two square off. They've changed their halfbacks, there's no Parisse- and the point Nachos raises about Garcia and Campagnaro is a good one.

But we're not talking about Italy. We're not even talking about Ireland. We're talking about who's worse, Schmidt or Kidney and waving our willies at each other like naughty schoolboys.

It doesn't technically break any rules about personal abuse etc. but it sure as hell puts people off using the forum and we've lost good posters because of this nonsense in the past so I have to ask the perpetrators- please stop. I'll be stopping the part I played in it.

We seldom struggle against Italy at home though. They are missing two of their better players. Last time we played them in Landsdowne we hammered them and same at the world cup. We need to hammer them again on Saturday so Ill be disapointed if we dont.

GunsGerms wrote:

Sin é wrote:

GunsGerms wrote:

Nachos Jones wrote:Not a real surprise in the selections to be honest. Looking forward to the game on Saturday but cant see this backline running in loads of scores.

Even though they have already scored more tries this year than they did last year in the whole six nations? Cant please some people.

Well, Peter O'Mahony was never known for the number of tries he scored as a winger.

3 tries a game until Zebo got injured last 6Ns!

Again Simon Zebo!!! He has the same try scoring ration as Dave Kearney. How come you arent constantly harping on for Tommy Bowe's inclusion. He is twice as good as Simon Zebo.

No he hasn't.
Zebo: 48 starts for Munster - 24 tries.
Kearney: 58 starts for Leinster - 13 tries.

I wouldn't rate 2 tries against a completely disinterested Samoa as something to be shouting about.

Tommy Bowe could only play 40 minutes last week, so I doubt if he is ready to play international rugby just yet and anyway, he usually plays on the opposite wing.

If Zebo is to play, it is better to put him on the left because of his left boot.

Well I think the reason Italy are not getting much of a mention on here is partly because, last year's farce aside, we have an excellent record against them and also because unfortunetly we don't seem to have any Italian supporters posting on here.

To be honest the most interesting thing about this Italian team is that Parisse isn't playing.

Ironically, Parisse missing might be a better chance for them!  

He gets a lot of plaudits here but I'd agree with Plumtree who said bluntly enough "Some of the things he can do come off and create something spectacular.  Some of the things he can do, don’t come off, and that can create pressure [for Italy]."
He tends to over-do his one-man-army role and I think he often impedes Italy in rushing in everywhere trying to be always the player that counts.

Sin é wrote:

GunsGerms wrote:

Sin é wrote:

GunsGerms wrote:

Nachos Jones wrote:Not a real surprise in the selections to be honest. Looking forward to the game on Saturday but cant see this backline running in loads of scores.

Even though they have already scored more tries this year than they did last year in the whole six nations? Cant please some people.

Well, Peter O'Mahony was never known for the number of tries he scored as a winger.

3 tries a game until Zebo got injured last 6Ns!

Again Simon Zebo!!! He has the same try scoring ration as Dave Kearney. How come you arent constantly harping on for Tommy Bowe's inclusion. He is twice as good as Simon Zebo.

No he hasn't.
Zebo: 48 starts for Munster - 24 tries.
Kearney: 58 starts for Leinster - 13 tries.

I wouldn't rate 2 tries against a completely disinterested Samoa as something to be shouting about.

Tommy Bowe could only play 40 minutes last week, so I doubt if he is ready to play international rugby just yet and anyway, he usually plays on the opposite wing.

If Zebo is to play, it is better to put him on the left because of his left boot.

Same record for Ireland. Zebo hasnt been picked and doesnt deserve to be. Im sure there will continue to be an outcry after every game regardless of whether we win or not.

SecretFly wrote:Ironically, Parisse missing might be a better chance for them!  

He gets a lot of plaudits here but I'd agree with Plumtree who said bluntly enough "Some of the things he can do come off and create something spectacular.  Some of the things he can do, don’t come off, and that can create pressure [for Italy]."
He tends to over-do his one-man-army role and I think he often impedes Italy in rushing in everywhere trying to be always the player that counts.

It really is odd when you consider Parisse (a player I rate highly) as being a weak link in a team but that is exactly what he can be.

I still think that we should not underestimate Italy, I don't think that JS has done either. I still firmly believe that if Italy are in with a shout around the 60min mark then the match will be decided by the subs, so Ireland win. I just don't think that its a matter of simply turning up and expecting to win, Italy will push Ireland.

GunsGerms wrote:Well the negativity is ridiculous. It does seem like some fans would prefer we lost on Saturday because x hasnt been picked or we arent playing x way. I mean honestly there is a championship win in our sights. Lots to be positive about.

To be fair, you have spent the past few weeks making constant digs towards Munster fans and trying to wind people up. At times it is funny but it has gone a bit too far now, and it is all becoming a bit tiresome to read.

Don't know if this has bee said but Parrise is out of this weeks game.

He will be a big loss for Italy

Ireland will deffo win now.

majesticimperialman wrote:Don't know if this has bee said but Parrise is out of this weeks game.

He will be a big loss for Italy

Ireland will deffo win now.

It's the By How Much that we're debating.  I'm sure England will be keeping a close eye on that one, provided they glide past Wales.

Last time Italy won in Dublin was in 1997. So don't break the habit now guys   

(Don't worry Italy- I'll be cheering you on in Round 5)

Notch wrote:Last time Italy won in Dublin was in 1997. So don't break the habit now guys   

(Don't worry Italy- I'll be cheering you on in Round 5)

Was Parrise playing for Italy then?

We need to win by at least 20 points. England beat them by over 40 points in 2011 and good chance if a championship is on the line will put a score on them again.

majesticimperialman wrote:

Notch wrote:Last time Italy won in Dublin was in 1997. So don't break the habit now guys   

(Don't worry Italy- I'll be cheering you on in Round 5)

Was Parrise playing for Italy then?

No! Oh no, maybe its an omen   

Basically Italy beat us three times in a row between 1995 and 1997. That record is one of the main reasons they were invited to join the tournament, I think- if you imagine Georgia beating Scotland three times in a row nowadays it would be hard not to do something about it. The shame of it is that they haven't been given the chance.

But after that run we won 17 times in a row between 1997 and 2013, right up until Deccies parting gift...

Rory_Gallagher wrote:

GunsGerms wrote:Well the negativity is ridiculous. It does seem like some fans would prefer we lost on Saturday because x hasnt been picked or we arent playing x way. I mean honestly there is a championship win in our sights. Lots to be positive about.

To be fair, you have spent the past few weeks making constant digs towards Munster fans and trying to wind people up.  At times it is funny but it has gone a bit too far now, and it is all becoming a bit tiresome to read.

In fairness what else are you going to do when there is a break in the six nations?

GunsGerms wrote:

Rory_Gallagher wrote:

GunsGerms wrote:Well the negativity is ridiculous. It does seem like some fans would prefer we lost on Saturday because x hasnt been picked or we arent playing x way. I mean honestly there is a championship win in our sights. Lots to be positive about.

To be fair, you have spent the past few weeks making constant digs towards Munster fans and trying to wind people up.  At times it is funny but it has gone a bit too far now, and it is all becoming a bit tiresome to read.

In fairness what else are you going to do when there is a break in the six nations?

Learn to ride a unicycle. Write poetry. Go outside.

SecretFly wrote:

majesticimperialman wrote:Don't know if this has bee said but Parrise is out of this weeks game.

He will be a big loss for Italy

Ireland will deffo win now.

It's the By How Much that we're debating.  I'm sure England will be keeping a close eye on that one, provided they glide past Wales.

See, that's where I think that Ireland should be careful. First and foremost Ireland should be going for the win and not aiming to beat them by x-amount, complacency breeds failure. I think that Italy matches Ireland a lot more than people are giving them credit for, under Brunel Italy are a difficult side to destroy by 20+ points and have the ability to make some good breaks as well. Their centre pairing is not too bad in that regard. I honestly feel that JS will only be focussing on the win and whatever margin it is will be a bonus.

Nachos.....................,  No win is a guarantee.  I say that so often in this place that I bore myself saying it.  We're all honest enough to know that no side is ever guaranteed a win - and Ireland more than others.

BUT.......... if Ireland are meant to be fretting over an Italian side that is bottom of the board and has been beaten by every side it has met this season, including Scotland that is struggling itself this year; if we're meant to just go for a close fought, coy and guarded win having worked ourselves into Primary contenders for the Championship based on points amassed, points difference, shared most tries, least tries scored against - and playing at home................... then Ireland might as well wrap up any pretensions about being a top five side.

BUT again! - if we do have those pretensions to be a natural top 5 side (and I do hope most Irish fans believe we at least have that ability in the country!)...then we must force the point, and force it most especially on considered (and in realistic ranking terms -Italy ranked 14th) weaker sides.

We show too much 'caution' respect to sides that don't really have the players to command it and then we show scant 'caution' respect to sides (SH - NZ, Wales, England etc) that very much have the players to command some.

We have to play through a Championship sequence like we mean it - by being belligerent and furious in both deed and pace for ALL sides.  There is no way Italy would live with the Irish side that met England, or dismantled Wales over two seasons, or went toe to toe with New Zealand.  Italy simply don't have the ammo to live with an Ireland side in the mood to compete at the highest level.  That's not arrogance - it's fact.  And we need to lose our humility and begin admitting when we outclass the opposition.

Now, back to your point.  Yes - Ireland could lose.  Yes Ireland has the potential to get complacent.  Yes, Italy are better than they've been in the old days.  Yes repeated - Ireland could lose and they have to play seriously to win.

BUT once more - I believe ultimate complacency would be for Ireland to have the arrogance to think they can defeat Italy by first being guarded, then by applying first half pressure to their forwards, then by earning the right to go wide, then by using a Bench - a bench - to inflict the killer blow in a second half to get whatever points cushion we feel we need.  That to me is a full blown complacency blue-print because it supposes we have the ability to do all we need to do against Italy in a second half, with Bench players doing most of it.

You show respect to Italy by going at them full tilt as we would attempt against a much higher ranked side.  Play them hard and violently from the first minute because of the very truth that any cushion is better formed through 80 minutes of intensity than 40 minutes in a hopeful second half.  

We'll need 80 minutes; and the earlier you start to impose your dominance, the more time you have left if that dominance isn't working out.  You're giving yourself time for Plan Bs if you initiate a potent Plan A early - first half.
That's respect to Italy and an affirmation of their ability to cling on and make life embarrassing.  You play them as you'd attempt to play a much higher ranked side.  Hit the ground running - at pace, with great variety and punishing physciality.

Ireland by 20 plus. Its a given.

Fly, that's some response. All I mean to say is that the Ireland team should have belief but not super arrogance by thinking that its only a question of by how many points they will win by. That's chicken counting in my opinion.

Ireland should show Italy respect, the same respect that they show all other rugby teams.

I believe Ireland will win, I just don't think that it will be the cricket score that some are expecting as Italy will know this and do their best to spoil Ireland at every stage. A spoiling Italy is a very tough team to beat.

GunsGerms wrote:Ireland by 20 plus. Its a given.

For gods sake man, would you ever stop tempting fate!   

SecretFly wrote:Nachos.....................,  No win is a guarantee.  I say that so often in this place that I bore myself saying it.  We're all honest enough to know that no side is ever guaranteed a win - and Ireland more than others.

BUT.......... if Ireland are meant to be fretting over an Italian side that is bottom of the board and has been beaten by every side it has met this season, including Scotland that is struggling itself this year; if we're meant to just go for a close fought, coy and guarded win having worked ourselves into Primary contenders for the Championship based on points amassed, points difference, shared most tries, least tries scored against - and playing at home................... then Ireland might as well wrap up any pretensions about being a top five side.

BUT again! - if we do have those pretensions to be a natural top 5 side (and I do hope most Irish fans believe we at least have that ability in the country!)...then we must force the point, and force it most especially on considered (and in realistic ranking terms -Italy ranked 14th) weaker sides.

We show too much 'caution' respect to sides that don't really have the players to command it and then we show scant 'caution' respect to sides (SH - NZ, Wales, England etc) that very much have the players to command some.

We have to play through a Championship sequence like we mean it - by being belligerent and furious in both deed and pace for ALL sides.  There is no way Italy would live with the Irish side that met England, or dismantled Wales over two seasons, or went toe to toe with New Zealand.  Italy simply don't have the ammo to live with an Ireland side in the mood to compete at the highest level.  That's not arrogance - it's fact.  And we need to lose our humility and begin admitting when we outclass the opposition.

Now, back to your point.  Yes - Ireland could lose.  Yes Ireland has the potential to get complacent.  Yes, Italy are better than they've been in the old days.  Yes repeated - Ireland could lose and they have to play seriously to win.

BUT once more - I believe ultimate complacency would be for Ireland to have the arrogance to think they can defeat Italy by first being guarded, then by applying first half pressure to their forwards, then by earning the right to go wide, then by using a Bench - a bench - to inflict the killer blow in a second half to get whatever points cushion we feel we need.  That to me is a full blown complacency blue-print because it supposes we have the ability to do all we need to do against Italy in a second half, with Bench players doing most of it.

You show respect to Italy by going at them full tilt as we would attempt against a much higher ranked side.  Play them hard and violently from the first minute because of the very truth that any cushion is better formed through 80 minutes of intensity than 40 minutes in a hopeful second half.  

We'll need 80 minutes; and the earlier you start to impose your dominance, the more time you have left if that dominance isn't working out.  You're giving yourself time for Plan Bs if you initiate a potent Plan A early - first half.
That's respect to Italy and an affirmation of their ability to cling on and make life embarrassing.  You play them as you'd attempt to play a much higher ranked side.  Hit the ground running - at pace, with great variety and punishing physciality.

Hear, hear. We need to be ruthless against this lot. Cold, calculated, precise and ruthless. At no point do we ease up if we are 15-20 up and in control to make the game "safe". We've done it too many times in the past, and we need get out of that habit.

Notch wrote:

GunsGerms wrote:Ireland by 20 plus. Its a given.

For gods sake man, would you ever stop tempting fate!   

Are you superstitious Notch? I will be pretty disapointed if we dont crucify them. I know they are a decent side but we are at home with a sniff of the title so that is how it is.

Remember the game in Rome in 2007 when we were chasing a championship and we put 51 points on them. Well thats what we need to aspire to. Just not concede a soft try towards the end.

Even in our grand slam year we beat them by 29 points away from home. If you want to win the championship you have to hammer Italy becuase if you dont someone else will. Simple as that.

Me too Guns, I'm just that most Irish of things when it comes to sport... wary of pride coming before a fall. Note this applies mainly to sport, not property bubbles   

You're right. Wales beat Italy by 8 points and France beat Italy by 20 points so ideally we'll get a better result than both of those and England (who I believe will beat Wales on current form) don't beat Wales by as much as we did.

That's got to be our target. Of course the fact Wales didn't put a score on Italy is a cautionary tale- but also the main reason I'm hoping Scotland and Wales come out on top this weekend

Yep. I want Scotland and Wales to win too but wouldnt it be just like the Welsh to go on and win the tournament then and the Irish to fall flat in Paris.

I don't care who wins the tournament out of the three other sides if we don't win it. So long as we're in control of our own destiny when the game in Paris kicks off...

I heard that Ferris is due to play for the Ravens next week. Very interested to see how that goes.

There has been lots of talk on squad rotation and resting Sexton etc. Now isnt the time though especially given that we have a summer tour to Argentina this year which would seem to be the perfect time to give squad players game time.

Also Sexton is universally considered the best OH in the NH and close to the best in the world. If possible he should be playing all our 6 nations games as he is a key player.

Ideally and tactically, I'd want a Welsh win.  
But Wales are like Great Whites.  Calm and almost peaceful as they swim around the diver cage.  But throw a few drops of blood in and things get pretty damn dangerous and lethal pretty damn quick.  They scent blood and it excites them.

So, like Guns says, if Wales beat England (at home) then that's showtime for their self-belief.   They probably would have still too much to do - BUT - that all depends on what they've already done to England and what we might have struggled to do to both France AND Italy.

A low scoring draw would be my ideal result between England and Wales.  That's not going to happen... but I think I'd much prefer England win the Championship than to see Wales steal it off us at the last tick of the 6N clock!  We'd absolutley never live it down - they'd go apeshit in letting us know all about it, and Gats and BOD and Lions and payback, and.........................

Yeah sometimes all the more annoying Welsh fans are just like a radio frequency you have to learn the tune out, win or lose.

I'll put my faith in statistics over passion- I think a low-scoring Welsh win won't be enough if we do the business on Saturday. If we limp over the line its going to really, really tight regardless of who wins the England-Wales game.

More than hoping that one side or another wins I actually hope its not won by more than 5 points either way.

The way France are playing and without the Picamoles, Fofana and Nyenga, Scotland may feel that this is one of their biggest chances to beat France tomorrow. That would leave France with one hell of point to prove against Ireland or they could simply implode...