Ireland v France - The 6N decider

First topic message reminder :

With such a strong points advantage if Ireland can just win in Paris then the Championship is there's. Now it's never been a happy hunting ground for Ireland - can they do it?

I think it's there year and I'm going to say yes.

There's no doubt that bollix huget will score against the run of play - as long as its not the winning score I can live with it..... I'm hoping the winning score comes from Drico off the back of a rolling maul from the halfway line myself!

Well, BOD's mates owe him three

Let's see them do the assisting in Paris.

Ireland have only conceded .5 tries per game. A phenominal record. This is one of the main reasons I hope Parra isnt selected. His goal kicking is so good France could beat us on kicks alone.

Not of we keep up our trend of conceding very few penalties.

Notch wrote:Not of we keep up our trend of conceding very few penalties.

France have conceded less pens than us though havent they?

Actually its 27 vs 36 or something like that.

Unfortunately when we come up against France all logic seems to go out the window.

Ireland has been in better form this tournament
Munster, Leinster & Ulster have all beaten French teams in the HK this season
We are playing intelligent tactical rugby under a new coach

BUT... we don't do France!

san wrote:Unfortunately when we come up against France all logic seems to go out the window.

Ireland has been in better form this tournament
Munster, Leinster & Ulster have all beaten French teams in the HK this season
We are playing intelligent tactical rugby under a new coach

BUT... we don't do France!

and that's France.................. that everyone laughs at.  New Zealand were laughing at them too before they met in the WC final...and who wouldn't have been as they somehow stumbled into the final tripping over their own shoelaces.

The French.  Who would even let them be part of such and ordered and structured contest?  They should be banned before the last game for subordinaton and a failure to take the jamboree seriously.

Sometimes you do do France:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3Eobt8hcxzk

Parra has been left out of the France squad. REJOICE!!!!!!!!!!

I think we are going to win.

Picamoles has been recalled and Bowe left out for Ireland.

French form up to now is irrelevant.

Their form really is irrelevant and we'll go into this with 2 game plans depending on which French side turns up on the day.
On saying that our form IS relevant and any side will fear an Ireland side firing on all cylinders. Those French better fear us because we are well overdue an O'Driscoll hattrick in Paris.

Feckless Rogue wrote:French form up to now is irrelevant.

Virtually the only side in the world though that can still get away with people saying that about them.  What an arrogant bunch those under-performing French players are!  They only turn up for a last game...win it, win the Championship, win the rankings battles and piddle off again into the shadows until the following year.

Feckless Rogue wrote:French form up to now is irrelevant.

True, but it helps that they realistically cant win the tournament. It also helps that the Ireland France game is the last game so we know how England have fared v Italy.

If England beat Italy by 1 point France will still have to beat Ireland by 30 points which is unlikely, however if England beat Italy in Rome by between 20-30 points which is probably about right then France have absolutely nothing to play for and may lose interest quite quickly.

Provided England dont win by more than 50 points I think we have a good chance of winning the championship. Either way we cant afford to win by a small margin as France have the players to nick a last minute try as they did v England.

I think Ireland will look to absolutely blow France away in the first 20 minutes.

One thing is Certain.............. Joe Schmidt won't be fooled by any seven-week-long French tricks or bluffed into thinking he's going to meet a herd full of confused chancers.  He'll be ready for any ruthless French side that has been lying in the long grass waiting to ambush him

.......................he will, won't he???
.......................he won't be fooled by any of those French shenanigans, will he???
.......................It IS certain, ain't it??????????  Surely, it's certain?!

*gulp* Must ring Thornley to chat about it this week in the Times just to make sure Schmidt reads it and is aware that the French might have been having a 7 week long Larf.

..and Guns is right.  I think it's a bit of a hidden ploy for them to do something feverish and clinical late in a close fought-for game just to ensure the opposition don't have time to hit back at them.

If it is a close game that Ireland are just winning and no more, then they'll have to be very alive to France concertedly trying something very very close to the final whistle.

I don't think there is any need to play this game, Ireland are clear favorites to win the 6 nations despite the team that will finish 2nd level on points beating them.

England should do the gentlemanly thing and concede the title to them now (like you do in Curling) and give all the players the weekend off.

Scrumpy wrote:I don't think there is any need to play this game, Ireland are clear favorites to win the 6 nations despite the team that will finish 2nd level on points beating them.  

England should do the gentlemanly thing and concede the title to them now (like you do in Curling) and give all the players the weekend off.

Id take it.

Scrumpy wrote:I don't think there is any need to play this game, Ireland are clear favorites to win the 6 nations despite the team that will finish 2nd level on points beating them.  

England should do the gentlemanly thing and concede the title to them now (like you do in Curling) and give all the players the weekend off.

I'd be up for that in gentlemanly terms. But would the French agree to it? Afterall, they've inadvertently started a few world wars by getting in the way of gentlemen trying to conduct business with each other. The stubborn French aren't lightly named.

Feckless Rogue wrote:French form up to now is irrelevant.

Nonsense its absolutely relevant. They'll be a different kettle of fish at home than on the road but they aren't going to magically transform from a disorganised bunch with some outstanding individuals into world beaters.

This is not a great French side - if you took Huget out they'd be looking at a second wooden spoon in two seasons.

Actually I'd say the issue with the French team at the moment is that they're not playing as a team. They don't appear to be on the same wave length, they're doing things the rest of the team aren't expecting, etc. That is EXACTLY the sort of thing that can just come good, even for just one game. The perfect storm. The players they are very good individually.

Now whether they'll do that for the Ireland game is another thing but even if they just forgot forcing it and just played basic rugby they'd have done a lot better (IMO of course).

rodders wrote:

This is not a great French side - if you took Huget out they'd be looking at a second wooden spoon in two seasons.

And if you took out his knack of being in the wrong place at the right time, he might actually make a good normal wing.

HammerofThunor wrote:Actually I'd say the issue with the French team at the moment is that they're not playing as a team. They don't appear to be on the same wave length, they're doing things the rest of the team aren't expecting, etc. That is EXACTLY the sort of thing that can just come good, even for just one game. The perfect storm.  The players they are very good individually.

Now whether they'll do that for the Ireland game is another thing but even if they just forgot forcing it and just played basic rugby they'd have done a lot better (IMO of course).

Cant argue with that really.

However, it does help Ireland's cause that two of their most notable leaders Dusatoir and Parra are missing and therefore its less likely to see a player leadership revolt turn a badly coached team into a unit capable of one off performances as in the WC final.

IMO it also helps that Trinh Duc continues to be overlooked and that Fofana and Nyanga are missing. I dont think we will ever have a better chance of beating France in Paris albeit Im still not too confident.

But this is why we wqatch these games right? Because we don't know what will happen? I get bored quickly with games I know the score for.

only thing that should be discussed is the margin of the Irish victory

please at least have the decency to make a proper slaughter (30+ points difference) so that we get a chance of having PSA sacked...

there is real lack of leaders in this french team and didnt think Dusautoir would be missed that much.

Parra is missed too in my opinion. Why is he not in the French squad?

The mere mention of his name on the team-sheet would have sent a chill through Irish player's blood and they'd have refused to travel and forfeited the game.

SecretFly wrote:Parra is missed too in my opinion.  Why is he not in the French squad?

The mere mention of his name on the team-sheet would have sent a chill through Irish player's blood and they'd have refused to travel and forfeited the game.

Who knows??? Its bizarre. Even if he played at OH he would probably improve the team.

I honestly dunno SF. he was in the squad before Scotland but then got his one week banned confirmed so that he could play against Ireland... only to not make the 30 men squad now! PSA logic and vision is something that us common mortals cannot really grasp.

whocares wrote:I honestly dunno SF. he was in the squad before Scotland but then got his one week banned confirmed so that he could play against Ireland... only to not make the 30 men squad now! PSA logic and vision is something that us common mortals cannot really grasp.

What about Trinh Duc? Why do all French managers seem to dislike him or is it the players who dont like him?

Surely he is easily the best FH in France.

SecretFly wrote:Parra is missed too in my opinion.  Why is he not in the French squad?

The mere mention of his name on the team-sheet would have sent a chill through Irish player's blood and they'd have refused to travel and forfeited the game.

It's that old attitude factor again. You can see what St Andre is like over the Picamoles affair; I think Parra and Trinh-Duc have suffered for perhaps showing arrogance on the training field. I'm only geussing I know as accusing a Frenchman of arrogance may seem a little far-fetched  

We all wonder why the French coach doesn't select players we all think should be selected. But it was the same with the last French coach. Maybe it's the players? Maybe someone like Trinh-Duc has a terrible attitude and won't listen to the coaches instructions? Maybe they're a difficult bunch to coach and we see these strange selection calls as a result?

That said I never rated St Andre anyway. Just saying the players may be a big part of the problem too.

Feckless Rogue wrote:We all wonder why the French coach doesn't select players we all think should be selected. But it was the same with the last French coach. Maybe it's the players? Maybe someone like Trinh-Duc has a terrible attitude and won't listen to the coaches instructions? Maybe they're a difficult bunch to coach and we see these strange selection calls as a result?

That said I never rated St Andre anyway. Just saying the players may be a big part of the problem too.

Are you suggesting the present bunch are listening to the coaches instructions?

Seriously thought yes, you're right in that French rugby simply has a very different culture... and team ethics in a military preparation kind of way doesn't seem to sit easily with them and therefore I'm sure the video analysis and 'homework' assignments bore them to death and they rarely take them seriously.  They win on their terms as a bunch of individuals that can do things with .....balls...... or they sulk and whine at being forced to do things in silly regimented ways.

I think there must be a lot of that in them.  Ireland simply have to be guarded about a bunch of individuals deciding that this is the game they want to win on their own terms and playing 80 erratic but effective rugby minutes to do just that.  

Joe Schmidt usually plans to unwrap the opposition plan.  With France he has his work cut out finding one.

atmosphere is not so rosy in the french camp today.

Nicolas Mas decided to quit a player press conference this morning when asked about the bad performance against Scotland. in a poll ran by french website rugbyrama, 91% of the voters thought that France didnt deserve to win in Murrayfled. laporte said that PSA is taking the p*ss for mentionning that France where "in control" against Scotland while Chabal thinks that the players are scared and that we are in the "merde". pretty much everyone and his dog having a go at the team and specially the coaches over here ...

looking all set for some special performance this weekend although I still think some key ingredients are missing such as players completely ignoring their coaches.

Omenous stuff...................... France in turmoil with players walking out and firing missiles at each other and the coaches????

Ireland are in for a thumping.

I don't think it's fair that they always plan us for their best performances, by the way.

Give us a F**king break, France!

France at home . Ireland to win well

whocares wrote:atmosphere is not so rosy in the french camp today.

Nicolas Mas decided to quit a player press conference this morning when asked about the bad performance against Scotland. in a poll ran by french website rugbyrama, 91% of the voters thought that France didnt deserve to win in Murrayfled. laporte said that PSA is taking the p*ss for mentionning that France where "in control" against Scotland while Chabal thinks that the players are scared and that we are in the "merde". pretty much everyone and his dog having a go at the team and specially the coaches over here ...

looking all set for some special performance this weekend although I still think some key ingredients are missing such as players completely ignoring their coaches.

Bad news for Ireland. Player revolt, grumpiness, public pressure. Its all set up for another Irish tragedy in Paris.

Thank God Parra, Dusatoir, Nyanga, Trinh Duc and Fofana are missing as it would be a certain hiding with those guys.

http://www.irishtimes.com/sport/rugby/international/les-kiss-highlights-order-in-french-chaos-1.1720572

So there you have it.

France have reached such a level of disorganized chaos that it's beginning to morph into an ordered strategy!

So their line-out being so bad that it was immaterial whether or not the opposition were present and their players bumping into each other 'Keystone Kops' style is all part of a cunning plan.

Oh and Rob Kearney is doing the rugby equivalent of 'writing lines'.

Agree GG. Key experienced players missing would make this miracle even more miraculous!

GunsGerms wrote:

Thank God Parra, Dusatoir, Nyanga, Trinh Duc and Fofana are missing as it would be a certain hiding with those guys.

When you think about all those guys missing, you might be led to believe that the turmoil in camp is between the coaches who want to drill Ireland into the ground and the players who want to let BOD win, for old time's sake.

Parra refusing to play because he couldn't bring himself to play badly enough to lose. Meaning he simply couldn't physically play bad enough and so refusing to play to give Ireland a fighting chance.
Trinh Duc saying that he's too slick and instincive a player and that he might make a mistake and glide past two Irish defenders without thinking.
Fofana shaking his head and putting his two hands out resignedly. "Everyone knows I certainly can't turn up. We either want to let BOD win or we don't. If I'm on the field, we win. I can't be stopped. They just can't stop me."

France's lineout has been unbelievably bad and their scrum did struggle against Wales and Italy though Kissy.

That said he might be on to something. Plus like Kiss says Huget is a massive threat

French scrum even stuggled against Scotland.
First time I ever see Scotland chosing the scrum after being awarded a penalty against france!
line out was a joke but am mainly concerned about the state of our so called back row specially PSA choses to play a lock as flanker.

I'm only after reading that bit about Kiss and his lack of belief in the French feints of disorganisation and silliness.

And yep, am I glad Thornley got my message through the lines to Schmidt!  My mind is now at ease.

yesterday I wrote:

SecretFly wrote:One thing is Certain.............. Joe Schmidt won't be fooled by any seven-week-long French tricks or bluffed into thinking he's going to meet a herd full of confused chancers.  He'll be ready for any ruthless French side that has been lying in the long grass waiting to ambush him

.......................he will, won't he???
.......................he won't be fooled by any of those French shenanigans, will he???
.......................It IS certain, ain't it??????????  Surely, it's certain?!

*gulp* Must ring Thornley to chat about it this week in the Times just to make sure Schmidt reads it and is aware that the French might have been having a 7 week long Larf.

I actually am seriously relieved that a joke has become a real analytical truth in the Irish camp, because in all honesty my joke was deathly serious.  I do think France bluff a lot.

Feckless Rogue wrote:We all wonder why the French coach doesn't select players we all think should be selected. But it was the same with the last French coach. Maybe it's the players? Maybe someone like Trinh-Duc has a terrible attitude and won't listen to the coaches instructions? Maybe they're a difficult bunch to coach and we see these strange selection calls as a result?

That said I never rated St Andre anyway. Just saying the players may be a big part of the problem too.

Maybe it's because they are just French. Different sport, but Raymond Domenech used to use Astrology when selecting his teams. Robert Pires and Bruno Pedretti were discarded due to the fact they're Scorpios and Domenech is an Aquarius, even though they were both playing good football. He also is on record as saying Leos make bad defenders.

He was the French national football teams Head Coach for six years.

So how do Ireland approach this game?

Do we keep it tight like we did for the first 3 games and look to dominate them up front or play a more open game?

I think if we play a fast open game France will tire in the second half on the other hand an open game could be playing right into this French teams hands. Against a team that isn't coached that well a tight set piece orientated game could be our best chance.

Only small chance France could have would be in broken play with the odd player getting isolated and turned over... So a low risk game plan would be a better option. Target the 10-12 channel, no need to go wide, pin them in their own half, they cant kick anyway and they will eventually break.

An open game like the second half v Italy?  Suicide as the French will pick us off and slice through the openings that kind of game can create.  No need for organisation then just French players chasing for a try-line with tails up. Very hard to stop.

I'd play a bit of our Wales game.... kicking behind them and turning them and chasing hard after and at them.  And I'd kick for territory and lineouts and keep things very methodical and almost boring.
Then ten minutes before half time and ten minutes after it, just go for them with raging intensity, not kicking but driving and phases and excursionary quests around any corners that might open up.
Variety will have a chance as long as its defined and everyone knows when the different periods are in play.

One thing we won't want doing is getting sloppy at any point in the game.  Never falling victim to France pretending they've fallen asleep.  France always pretend they've fallen asleep at some point in games (whether winning or losing)  It's like the soothing songs the Zulu's sang to the soldiers in the garrison at Rourke's Drift.  And never ever turn our backs on them ................... (Wales on Sunday!   )
We'll have to keep alert at all times because they'll have a timed purple patch too where they'll try to blow us away and then sit on any gains - much like the Italian game.

SecretFly wrote:We'll have to keep alert at all times because they'll have a timed purple patch too where they'll try to blow us away and then sit on any gains

That'll be in the first 20 minutes fly. They usually pump themselves up, run out onto the field and have us beaten before half time.

how does Schmidt come up with a strategy against chaos?

i bet he'd rather face Wales any day.

With Italy it was about ten minutes at the beginning of the second half.  And I laughed because Kiss is right, they play-act this clueless stuff too much yet in that 10 or 15 minutes against Italy they played like a team that knew exactly where they were on the team, what their individual roles were, how to make the most of possession and how to kill like hungry sharks.

We have to be ready for those moments - whether they come in waves throughout the game or as one straight period at any point in a game.  We have to be ready for them and batten down the hatches when they attempt them.  Because keeping them out in those purple periods is when you have a chance to lower their spirits.  A Frenchman with low spirits is the goal.  If we create 15 of them, they'll genuinely fall off rather than pretending to.

As far as I'm concerned, the French team that that played in the WC final in 2011 could just as easily turn up as the one that has done so far in this six nations. In fact I think a team with the mentality of the team in that game against the AB's is more likely to turn up.

For that reason, I honestly think that Ireland need to go out with a massive intensity in the first 20 minutes. Much like the 1st 20 minutes against the AB's in the autumn. If we do that then I honestly don't think it will matter when France have their purple patch, planned or not.

Obviously we need to keep up a decent intensity throughout the game, but for me, and as someone alluded to earlier, the 1st 20 minutes is key.