Ireland v France - The 6N decider

First topic message reminder :

With such a strong points advantage if Ireland can just win in Paris then the Championship is there's. Now it's never been a happy hunting ground for Ireland - can they do it?

I think it's there year and I'm going to say yes.

quinsforever wrote:how does Schmidt come up with a strategy against chaos?

i bet he'd rather face Wales any day.

Just throw a large dose of well organised chaos back at them. Irish logic.

I say we attack em from the start. Beat em up. We have it in us. The Perfect Game.

I'd love to see us spank France. In France. Now that would be a statement.

Believe.

Pros for France:

They have been slated in the press and will be keen to make amends.
The players are grumpy and boiling over. Mas stormed out of a press conference.
They are due a big performance.
They have Ireland in their WC group so even if they cant win the championship this is a meaningful game.
Huget has been on fire.
Its in France and ireland never win there.
Picamoles is back and pi$$ed off.

Cons:
Missing two strongest leaders. Parra and Dusatoir.
They are missing another three of their best players, Fofana, Trinh Duc and Nyanga.
Machenaud, Plisson and Doussain have been poor.
Ireland will surely be hungrier with a championship on the line.
Their manager is apauling and their set piece and general organisation and phase play has been abysmal.
The England v Italy game is on beforehand so its likely France will definitively know they cant win the championship.
If we cant beat France now in Paris we will never beat them.

quinsforever wrote:how does Schmidt come up with a strategy against chaos?

i bet he'd rather face Wales any day.

  

Scratch wrote:

quinsforever wrote:how does Schmidt come up with a strategy against chaos?

i bet he'd rather face Wales any day.

  

Probably by playing a similar game plan as they played v Wales. Very structured and avoid low percentage moves and tactics.

Keep France pinned back in their own half and pressure their line out.

Tentatively hoping Schmidt's time coaching in France will offer valuable insights into how to beat them. I've enjoyed O'Gara's explanations of the French way of playing rugby when they've had him as a pundit on RTE.  They approach the game pretty differently over there.

I'd be shocked if we take them on in an expansive game though and think we can expect a good strong kicking game.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jniAZEJn7fU

How Flannery didn't get carded I'll never know   

quinsforever wrote:how does Schmidt come up with a strategy against chaos?

i bet he'd rather face Wales any day.

Kick-lineout-maul-penalty/score

Repeat ad finitum   .

yes but france have szarzewski back and he can actually throw the ball in, so france wont be as dire in this regard as they were against scotland.

the one thing i think ireland cant afford to do is kick too long. they need an excellent chase like they showed against Wales. because france look really dangerous when brice dulin receives the ball in space at the back and has huget and others running lines outside him. shouldnt be a problem for sexton mind.

Napoleon was said to favour generals who were 'lucky'.
So he would without doubt award 'Legion D'Honeur' with knobs on to Huget who has brilliantly exploited the chunks of luck which have wandered / bounced / passed his way.
Ireland have to ensure Huget becomes very unlucky.

quinsforever wrote:yes but france have szarzewski back and he can actually throw the ball in, so france wont be as dire in this regard as they were against scotland.

the one thing i think ireland cant afford to do is kick too long. they need an excellent chase like they showed against Wales. because france look really dangerous when brice dulin receives the ball in space at the back and has huget and others running lines outside him. shouldnt be a problem for sexton mind.

Yes I agree and it is a nagging concern in my mind. Its always a high risk strategy to kick against France given the quality of the counterattack.

The French backs aren't vulnerable under the high ball the way Wales are either.

It could be we might see Ireland try and approach the game like we did against Italy - i.e. take them through the phases and grind them down as the feeling is we are fitter and better conditioned than them.

It will be interesting because its easy to see either approach become unstuck - kicking could give them counterattacking opportunities and trying to keep the ball in hand early could play into the hands of a pumped up defence and give them targets..

I still believe if we can soak up the pressure early we can finish stronger - the key thing is that we are still in the game after 60min..

i'm really looking forwards to the match. hope the pitch and weather hold up til saturday and it's a fearless no-holds-barred type of encounter.

So far the game of the tournament was England v Ireland (England v Wales did not live up to the billing). I think France v Ireland has the potential to be better. Ireland have a huge incentive and I believe will win. I've seen nothing from this French team that suggests they can suddenly "turn up" - particularly against a determined Irish team.

Schmidt is also a far better coach than PSA.

In Paris, o/load?

Any game in Paris is a huge ask for Ireland let alone a key one.
The worms will be squirming in their heads. Nagging away at the chords of doubt.

But they'll win. Just.
Only England will have to absolutely thrash Italy.

Fair comment Portney - mentally Ireland could crumble in Paris, also the enormity of the occasion could get the better of us, its very possible.

The last meeting in Paris was a draw but we should have won - we seemed to tighten up and let them back in when we were ahead.

Schmidt will have this team very well prepared and we showed great patience and professionalism against Italy. Can we take the mind set of the provinces who've gone down to France in recent times and got results when needed, or will Irelands poor record of not delivering on big occasions be key? These are valid questions.

I think there are more question marks hanging over the mental strength of the French than us though.

No wonder Ireland can never beat France. Talk about putting them on pedestals!

They've quality players but let's examine it in more detail. Ireland's scrums and lineouts have been better. Ireland's kicking game has been better. Ireland has scored more and conceded less. Ireland's discipline has been much better conceding just 6 penalties per match on average under Schmidt. France are better at counter attacking with more flair in the backs. They also have a decent defends.

Both teams have been consistent. Ireland consistently playing good as a team while France consistently bad. So the questions should be asked about ireland more than France. If Ireland continue playing as they are then I can't see France winning because there'll be too many areas where Ireland as a team are stronger.

We expect the current nice sunny weather to last till next week. Hasnt rained for a while so let's hope the pitch hold.

Do the French players actually hold the 6Ns in any high regard any more, whocares?

It seems to me that they only take big games seriously. Maybe playing with and against  World-class players in their day jobs week in week out makes only serious opposition worthy of consideration.

So now we've no chance of a grandslam is DArce keeping his beard? One can hope

Considering the clear correlation between the quality of D'arcy's performances and the length/density of his beard one would hope he retains it until after the RWC.

DArcy has a way to go to catch up with Jake Ball.

Portnoy's Complaint wrote:Do the French players actually hold the 6Ns in any high regard any more, whocares?

It seems to me that they only take big games seriously. Maybe playing with and against  World-class players in their day jobs week in week out makes only serious opposition worthy of consideration.

6N remains the most important tournament after the RWC. way ahead of the AIs in terms of importance although all test matchs have some relevance.

Are France the team under more pressure here? Two loses would be another poor tournament considering the the fixtures.

I can't imagine the French public are happy with what they've seen?

There will be massive disappointment in Ireland if we don't win now but prior to the competition I think most would have accepted 3 home wins as progress provided the performances were positive.

gregortree wrote:DArcy has a way to go to catch up with Jake Ball.

Ah but Darcys is 100% natural Irish beard. None of that genetically altered imported aussie stuff.

  

Actually it's an English beard that had been sun-bleached in Australia before being imported into to Wales for watering. so gentically it's of English stock.

HammerofThunor wrote:Actually it's an English beard that had been sun-bleached in Australia before being imported into to Wales for watering. so gentically it's of English stock.

He'll have enjoyed the English win then

Maybe that's what's wrong with Wales. All the English stock Welsh sleeper double agents have been given their assignments to stop functioning for Wales now in the lead in to the WC. Their form previously was just a ploy to get them picked and secured into the Welsh first team. Now Gats has been sabotaged from within.

whocares wrote:We expect the current nice sunny weather to last till next week. Hasnt rained for a while so let's hope the pitch hold.

Whats the buzz like over there mo chara? Expectant? Confident? Don't give a feic?

The 6-N is on the table. We want it bad. How about ye?

Just wanted to inform everyone, Mad-dog Madigan is sitting on the bench for Saturday and Mr.Jackson has been dropped.

That decision would start an unholy Ulster v  Leinster Virtual  War. I like Maddser, his time will come. But PJ has done everything asked of him and more.  He's been in the loop since the start. He wont be dropped.

Wouldn't put it pass Schmidt though, if he thinks its the right call, he'd do it. But I don't think he will at this stage. Be mad Ted.

Is this a Prediction or did Predictor hear it on a grapevine?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=93S_l0qZrXA

Don't pass me the ball...

Gibson wrote:That decision would start an unholy Ulster v  Leinster Virtual  War. I like Maddser, his time will come. But PJ has done everything asked of him and more.  He's been in the loop since the start. He wont be dropped.

Wouldn't put it pass Schmidt though, if he thinks its the right call, he'd do it. But I don't think he will at this stage. Be mad Ted.

Hopefully your prophecy will not be fulfilled but I'm as usual 100% right.
And unfortunately Mike I don't agree with your little monologue about PJ. Everyone time he comes on, I fear for the worst.That last relatively simple kick against Italy was horrible and kinda just summed up his temperament.Plus he only covers 10, Mad of the dogs covers 10,12,13,15,1,2,3(back in his u13's days for Rock).

Gibson wrote:

whocares wrote:We expect the current nice sunny weather to last till next week. Hasnt rained for a while so let's hope the pitch hold.

Whats the buzz like over there mo chara? Expectant?  Confident? Don't give a feic?

The 6-N is on the table. We want it bad. How about ye?

Anticlimax is the only word that comes to mind. Only the players saying they are confindent but the truth is that they are scared and cant play proper rugby as a result.

Rest assured, 6N is yours. Enjoy it.   

One day we'll compete, it's just 18 month too early
Hell no. Need some kiwi in charge. Even crazy lievremont is saying that PSA is a weirdo!

Are there any sane coaches in France? And why doesn't an apparently sane one like Guy Novès do it?

PredictorofTeams wrote:

Gibson wrote:That decision would start an unholy Ulster v  Leinster Virtual  War. I like Maddser, his time will come. But PJ has done everything asked of him and more.  He's been in the loop since the start. He wont be dropped.

Wouldn't put it pass Schmidt though, if he thinks its the right call, he'd do it. But I don't think he will at this stage. Be mad Ted.

Hopefully your prophecy will not be fulfilled but I'm as usual 100% right.
And unfortunately Mike I don't agree with your little monologue about PJ. Everyone time he comes on, I fear for the worst.That last relatively simple kick against Italy was horrible and kinda just summed up his temperament.Plus he only covers 10, Mad of the dogs covers 10,12,13,15,1,2,3(back in his u13's days for Rock).

   

SecretFly wrote:Are there any sane coaches in France?  And why doesn't an apparently sane one like Guy Novès do it?

Within the question, lies the answer.

Love that Guy. Huge respect for the man. Why sacrifice himself to the unforgiving French massief, when he has the best job in the World?

meh .... french starting team announced   

Domingo Szarzewsi Mas
Papé Maestri
Picamoles (6!!) Lapandry (7) Chouly (8)
Machenaud Talès
Médard Fickou Bastareaud Huget
Dulin

subs : Guirado, Debaty, Slimani, Flanquart, Vahaamahina, Lauret, Doussain, Mermoz

ok...another good effort from monsieur saint-andré...

Picamoles back...as flanker... wtf. I do hope that him and Chouly will swap positions during most of the game.
6 forwards on the bench with only a tired Doussain to cover 9 and 10. will PSA change the full tight 5 at half time?
Plisson is definitely out but replaced with boring Tales? am almost missing michalak now!
ah well at least Fickou is starting although both him and Bastareaud tend to play outside centres...

Ireland by 50! ....

 

rodders wrote:Ireland by 50! ....

we lost to the ABs at home by similar margin so why not...

on the Picamoles at flanker experiement, PSA just said "they will sometime swap positions during the game with Chouly but I cannot tell more about our strategy as I suspect there is some Irish journalists in the room"

Well at least the word 'strategy' has appeared. Which is promising for exacerbated French fans.!

The Irish aren't expecting anything but a performing France though. So it's going to be an epic battle of wills if both sides turn up in top form.

SecretFly wrote:The Irish aren't expecting anything but a performing France though.  So it's going to be an epic battle of wills if both sides turn up in top form.

Speak for yourself fly! I'm expecting a France no show! ...

rodders wrote:

SecretFly wrote:The Irish aren't expecting anything but a performing France though.  So it's going to be an epic battle of wills if both sides turn up in top form.

Speak for yourself fly! I'm expecting a France no show! ...

I'm trying to be diplomatic here, rodders!
"You first" "No, you go ahead" "No, I insist, you first" "Absolutely insist it's you first"
Diplomacy - two idiots stuck at a doorway for four hours debating niceties.

agree with whocares there, a bit of a wtf selection by PSA. Also the BBC have Lapandry starting at 8 with Chouly at openside??? that surely can't be right (even by PSA's standards managing to play all three back rows out of position when he could play them in the right positions would be a bit odd).

Talès who's average comes in while Plisson who hasn't set the world alight but hasn't had any ball to work with is ditched completely, meaning Doussain (who's been rubbish at SH) has to cover FH as well.

Oh and Fickou finally gets a start, but it's not in place of the awful Bastareaud (who admittedly did OK against Scotland but will be choke-tackled into oblivion against Ireland - Wales turned him over a few times in that manner), but instead of Mermoz so he's out of position as well.

Ireland should not only win, but win handsomely TBH, and I fully expect them to. Ireland by 15

EDIT: l'equipe do have Chouly at 8 and Lapandry at openside, probably just a mistake from auntie beeb that...

No it's really Picamoles at flanker... Noves tried it...once... and it failed.

I'm sure Chouly has blayed blindside before (in fact quite a lot, no?) so don't get why he isn't packing down there with Picamoles at 8. Silly selection. Unfortunately has PSA written all over it.

Never understood why Parra and Trinh-Duc haven't been fixtures in the French side for a few years now, easily the best half-back pairing they have, and yet seem to be constantly out of favour.

whocares wrote:No it's really Picamoles at flanker... Noves tried it...once... and it failed.

Why has Guy Noves never been made France manager? Surely he is the obvious choice?

The crazier the French get I fear the more likely they are to do something completely unexpected.

I would prefer Plission to start as I reckon we really could have put him under a lot of pressure.

It seems the kind of 'strategy' that's designed to maybe get a specific benefit (try) early in the game. Like a planned move of sorts. They get the try and then everyone will be back to their rightful positions. And sit on the try then for the next 70 minutes!

Hmmm.

I think they've done it to confuse the Irish. Ireland have clearly had different strategies for each team they've played so far, but Schmidt must be looking at this selection and wondering how to counter it as he (or anyone else) surely has no idea what France's "gameplan" is going to be.

PSA seems to be quite worried about his pack getting run ragged in the game, so he has overloaded his bench to try and keep the forwards fresh to the end of the game. One injury in the backline early in the game and things could unravel quickly for France.

I could just about understand Picamoles in as a flanker if you were planning on having extra big ball carriers on the field but does this not end up just confusing his own players in mixing/matching instead of giving them set positions and tasks to perform. Also, the problems start more when you have to play defensively (maybe he is thinking of Pica at flanker for go forward and switch to 8 for defense?). All I can really think is that they are scared of Sexton and want to have as many big runners battering down his channel for the entire game.

Fickou is the ace in the hole and I'm kind of glad they are putting him inside centre for obvious enough reasons.