Wales tour of SA

First topic message reminder :

Halfpenny is out and recent news (unknown to me) is stating that Warburton will now also miss out due to a dislocated shoulder. It doesn't look good for us going to SA without these two and with our recent away form being so bad. Personally I think it would be a good idea if we had a midweek game before the first test against a SA Provincial team, using the majority of our first team.

Who would you like to see on the plane?

Hard to argue, I don't really care much for MOTM awards but Allen did have a good game.

Any ideas when the touring squad is to be announced?

Isn't it likely to be at the end of May? Or at least we'll have an idea by then as I expect the supposed probable vs possibles will take place around then.

Guess the outcome of whose in the play offs as well might afect the announcement.

2nd choice hooker Emyr Phillips is out for 12 to 14 weeks, so wont tour. I suspect Owens and Smiler will do with one other as injury backup.

But good news is that Ianto and Scott Williams look like being available. Ianto to play this weekend and Scott may be avaialble to play before the season's end.

Lets hope there are no further injuries in the next two weeks!

Who would people say are next behind Owens and maybe Smiler. Dacey should be in with a shout.

Threre's the Blue's hooker whose name I always forget.

I think the young Dragon's hooker is in the JWC

Dacey was in good form for the Blues this season before his injury

IronMike wrote:Dacey was in good form for the Blues this season before his injury

Bugger didn't realise he was injured

Didn't (Ospreys) Baldwin go on tour to Japan last summer? Either way there is now a bit of a gap between Owens and Smiler and whoever goes as third choice.

Isn;t there a Welsh hooker that plays for Sale ?

Marc Jones (27) from Pontypridd. Reasonably decent, been sharing the starting position with young English player Tommy Taylor.

Worth a pop

To me it definitely Ken Owens and Matthew Rees as our first choice and back up option. At the moment Ken is in fine from and looks ready o start but don't be surprised it we see Matthew start. His first game back on judgment day was amazing, he carried moved the ball and helped form a steady scrum (something the blues don't have). If he keeps hat up it will be a very close call come the first test.

The remaining place then must be between Dacey and Marc Jones. Fro what i have seen Dacey look promising ad would bring his development on. However, if he did have o stand in i do think the Boks might be too much for him. Now i haven't seen much of Marc Jones but i do know he has been a rock in a dominant sale pack this season and has picked up a few man of the match awards. I have seen him a few times and he is a reliable hooker and good around the park.
It's not fair to try and physically match the beast that is Du Plessis now Hibbard is out because we can't.
Sam Parry is behind both T Rhys Thomas and Elliot Dee so isn't an option same with Kirby Myhill. Not really been impressed with Baldwin lately hasn't offered much and has played much much better in the past.
I think i would go for:
Ken Owens
Matthew Rees
Marc Jones

The Rugby Paper is reporting that The Baabaas offered Wales a match before they take on England at the end of May but that the WRU have turned it down. I can't understand. The Probs/Possibles looks a bit of a non starter. The whole Tour seems to be a disaster in the making due to lack of preparation. What is the point of touring RSA for 3 games in 12 days? What on earth can we gain from it?

Norfolklass wrote:The Rugby Paper is reporting that The Baabaas offered Wales a match before they take on England at the end of May but that the WRU have turned it down. I can't understand. The Probs/Possibles looks a bit of a non starter.  The whole Tour seems to be a disaster in the making due to lack of preparation. What is the point of touring RSA for 3 games in 12 days? What on earth can we gain from it?

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So were on the verge of the Lions tour and since the six nations fate has been kind because we have had very few injured and with the good news that Scott, Matthew and Ian are back.
We need news players in our team, especially against the big guns. If we are to make it through he pool stage at the World Cup we need to try things NOW. This would be my starting 23 vs the Boks:
1. Gethin Jenkins (found his feet at the Blues again and is in great form)
2. Ken Owens (in great form as well, strong replacement for Hibbard)
3. Samson Lee (strong tackler, does more than enough at scrum time)
4. Alyn Wyn Jones (C) (looks a bit tired but will have enough time to rest)
5. Jake Ball (his form is immense and could help meet the power of the boks)
6. Ryan Jones (will need his experience)
7. Dan Lydiate (will need his defensive techniques)
8. Toby Falateu (is under pressure from Baker so will need to play well)

9. Garteh Davies (with in form 9, would be a big mistake not to play him)
10. Dan Biggar (most reliable 10)
(The rest picks itself)
11.Alex Cuthbert
12. Jamie Roberts
13. Johnathan Davies
14. George North
15. Liam Williams

16. Matthew Rees, 17. Paul James, 18. Adam Jones, 19. Ian Evans, 20. Dan Baker, 21. Rhodri Williams, 22. James Hook, 23. Scott Williams

If 23 players stay fit then i prefer our chances more than i did a month ago

However i would be really tempted to go for a back row of:
6. Toby Falateu
7. Dan Lydiate
8. Dan Baker
Both Falateu and Baker have the skill to get past the first defender and break lines. Together they could do some real damage.

What are the Welsh fans realistic expectations from this summer tour? It seems a bit doom and gloom on here but do you think you could get a win out there?

yappysnap wrote:What are the Welsh fans realistic expectations from this summer tour? It seems a bit doom and gloom on here but do you think you could get a win out there?

I think 2 defeats is expected given the form of the South Africans and our poor 6 Nations, for me personally whilst I would love at least one win I think its more about seeing what players we have in certain positions.

That said I can't see him experimenting too much unless more injuries force his hand.

Strange to hear that Wales turned down a game against the BaaBaas.

With no side in the Pro12 playoffs or the Heineken Cup final the players from Ospreys, Scarlets, Cardiff Blues and the Dragons will be out of action for a full month before the first test. They need some sort of game.

Will the Probables versus Possibles Game come to pass?

Notch wrote:Strange to hear that Wales turned down a game against the BaaBaas.

With no side in the Pro12 playoffs or the Heineken Cup final the players from Ospreys, Scarlets, Cardiff Blues and the Dragons will be out of action for a full month before the first test. They need some sort of game.

Will the Probables versus Possibles Game come to pass?

,
Notch, I suspect the Probables v Posiibles match will now be played as the Regions seasons are over. These games against the Baa Baas or any other representative team has to be organised a long time in advance, this couldn't be accomodated due to Region possible participation in play offs at that time

True that.

Also if it was the week before the England barbarians game that would be the weekend of the HEC final wouldn't it? Which is in the MS.

Could have had an impromptu WalesvItaly game perhaps?

HammerofThunor wrote:Also if it was the week before the England barbarians game that would be the weekend of the HEC final wouldn't it? Which is in the MS.

It will be interesting to see how they market the game if it goes ahead and what they ticketing policy is, given the WRUs track record it will be advertised a day before and full price tickets.

Wales play SA 3 times this year, Aus and Fiji and NZ.

My heart says that we have to break the SH hoodoo. If we don't you can kiss RWC goodbye.
My head says i have heartburn.

Based on our record the expectation is loss in SA and more loss in the autumn, but if we can produce the goods once in SA then that confidence might be enough to start the ball rolling.

A team as good as this cannot keep losing.

A team as good as this cannot keep losing.

Scratch

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Oh it can. That is not saying that Wales are a bad side. It more of a FITNESS THING.
The SH are a lot fitter or seemed to be a lot fitter than the NH teams.

majesticimperialman wrote:A team as good as this cannot keep losing.

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Oh it can. That is not saying that Wales are a bad side. It more of a FITNESS THING.
The SH are a lot fitter or seemed to be a lot fitter than the NH teams.

Then how do you account for this

Wales beat England regularly but cannot beat an SH side - since Aus in08/09.

Yet England regularly beat SH sides.

Fitness does not explain it.

I think it may contribute to it, but it can't explain it entirely

I think it is a mental thing, Wales is a good team, South Africa is not that much better, and they have a tendency to have inconsistencies in their performances, if Scotland can beat SA then Wales certainly can.

Biltong wrote:I think it is a mental thing, Wales is a good team, South Africa is not that much better, and they have a tendency to have inconsistencies in their performances, if Scotland can beat SA then Wales certainly can.

How do you ingrain that belief though? Look at the All Blacks last year, the way they beat SA and Ireland, they just didn't give up and found their way back into the game. In a few games recently vs SA Wales romp up a lead then fold towards the end.

I don't know mate, belief for a team has so many aspects that defining where the problem lies will be very difficult for an outsider.

Scratch wrote:

majesticimperialman wrote:A team as good as this cannot keep losing.

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Oh it can. That is not saying that Wales are a bad side. It more of a FITNESS THING.
The SH are a lot fitter or seemed to be a lot fitter than the NH teams.

Then how do you account for this

Wales beat England regularly but cannot beat an SH side - since Aus in08/09.

Yet England regularly beat SH sides.

Fitness does not explain it.

I think it may contribute to it, but it can't explain it entirely

They also lose to them regularly as well - aren't the wins about even for each team? The 6N is a very different forum to Summer/Autumn internationals, however, it was 2003 since England 'regularly' beat any SH team. Define regularly?

Even Scotland managed to beat Australia and SA in recent years.

Wales failed to beat possibly the weakest Aus team in the last 10 years when they toured there in 2012 - 2 very close tests which they should have won, and then again in the following autumn where Beale scored in the last play of the game.

I'm starting to think selection was a huge part of that loss, in particular, halfbacks.

Priestland O'Gara'd us   

Jimpy wrote:

Scratch wrote:

majesticimperialman wrote:A team as good as this cannot keep losing.

Scratch

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Oh it can. That is not saying that Wales are a bad side. It more of a FITNESS THING.
The SH are a lot fitter or seemed to be a lot fitter than the NH teams.

Then how do you account for this

Wales beat England regularly but cannot beat an SH side - since Aus in08/09.

Yet England regularly beat SH sides.

Fitness does not explain it.

I think it may contribute to it, but it can't explain it entirely

They also lose to them regularly as well - aren't the wins about even for each team? The 6N is a very different forum to Summer/Autumn internationals, however, it was 2003 since England 'regularly' beat any SH team. Define regularly?

No you define it, because it's obviously a big deal for you and is clearly a subjective assessment.

Jimpy wrote:

Scratch wrote:

majesticimperialman wrote:A team as good as this cannot keep losing.

Scratch

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Join date: 2013-11-10

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Oh it can. That is not saying that Wales are a bad side. It more of a FITNESS THING.
The SH are a lot fitter or seemed to be a lot fitter than the NH teams.

Then how do you account for this

Wales beat England regularly but cannot beat an SH side - since Aus in08/09.

Yet England regularly beat SH sides.

Fitness does not explain it.

I think it may contribute to it, but it can't explain it entirely

They also lose to them regularly as well - aren't the wins about even for each team? The 6N is a very different forum to Summer/Autumn internationals, however, it was 2003 since England 'regularly' beat any SH team. Define regularly?

Three wins from the last four meetings seem pretty regular to me  

I think 'regular' is also taken in the context of the one-sidedness of Welsh results: the disproportionate margin between success against NH sides and success against SH sides. Wales' record against any NH side (both historically and in terms of recent results) could be described as containing regular wins in comparison to how they've fared against Australia, NZ and SA

Tipuric is definitely out, as most suspected. Surely Navidi will get the 7 jersey now, it's deserved too. King will be unavailable (thank god), Beck is also likely to be unavailable through having to go under the knife as well. Surely Henson will be back in the squad as we're a bit light now.

There's still all this talk of playing lock's in the back-row to try and take on SAs monster back-row, I'm not sure if it'll work... No idea why he'd consider Bradley at 6, surely AWJ or Ball are better options.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/rugby-union/27064168

Or Ryan Jones.

Why consider Davies, AWJ or Ball when we have players like Navidi, Lewis Evans, Shingler, Baker and Ryan Jones along with the opportunity of moving Lydiate and Faletau.

Well...yes but that would be sensible

Yeah it does seem more sensible, but look at it this way, is South Africa the best place to introduce them? In the autumn, maybe we will. Lydiate needs to have a big series, last year he was well off the pace and should not have been picked in the first place. We're really going to miss Hibbard .

Ken Owens can do they job, better in the line out too

If theres any backrow shuffling I would go with
6. Lydiate
7. Faletau
8. Baker

I like that IronMike

IronMike wrote:If theres any backrow shuffling I would go with
6. Lydiate
7. Faletau
8. Baker

That's more like it. Faletau's a decent pilferer, albeit not quite on the level of Warbs and Tipuric.

I have a horrible feeling this quick-fix solution of 'play locks in the back row' will backfire horrendously if its actually followed through. We've tried countering opposition physicality by just shifting big boys about before and I can't think of any instances where it's worked well at all.

RUN AROUND THE SAFFAS FOR THE LOVE OF GOD !

Worked for Shane

Lydiate is picked for his defensive capabilities and he didn't miss one tackle all 6 Nations so seems to habe been pretty much spot on.

Knowsit17 wrote:

IronMike wrote:If theres any backrow shuffling I would go with
6. Lydiate
7. Faletau
8. Baker

That's more like it. Faletau's a decent pilferer, albeit not quite on the level of Warbs and Tipuric.

I have a horrible feeling this quick-fix solution of 'play locks in the back row' will backfire horrendously if its actually followed through. We've tried countering opposition physicality by just shifting big boys about before and I can't think of any instances where it's worked well at all.

Spot on bckrow think, even thoguh Toby isn;t an established 7 who plays there week in week out and is ad prominent at the break down as an out and out 7. He will put pressure on 10, work his ass off for the full 80 and won't take a step backwards. No less of a seven than the likes of Chris Robshaw or Sean O'Brien. I just think bringing in Baker would give us more edge in attack. Then we have Dan to cut down the anything tht runs in his path. Seems like an ideal back row to me Mike

Lydiate has played 7 for us against Australia in the AIs few seasons back and he plays left and right with Racing rather than open and blind as we do so him or Taulupe could do a job there but you would lose Lydiates defensive capabilities.

bedfordwelsh wrote:Lydiate has played 7 for us against Australia in the AIs few seasons back and he plays left and right with Racing rather than open and blind as we do so him or Taulupe could do a job there but you would lose Lydiates defensive capabilities.

Lydiate caught an injury and will be off all summer.