Wales tour of SA

First topic message reminder :

Halfpenny is out and recent news (unknown to me) is stating that Warburton will now also miss out due to a dislocated shoulder. It doesn't look good for us going to SA without these two and with our recent away form being so bad. Personally I think it would be a good idea if we had a midweek game before the first test against a SA Provincial team, using the majority of our first team.

Who would you like to see on the plane?

am I right in thinking that the EP Kings at this time are a Currie Cup team?

That means in terms of level they are an equivalent of the Welsh Prem (2nd tier)

How would a 2nd string springbok side get on against Pontypridd?

Kings haven't actually managed to qualify for the Currie Cup in yonks, they have been given a spot in the Currie Cup Premier division due to pressure put on SARU.

They haven't won the Currie Cup Second division for a long time either.

They did make the final of the second division last year, but were clobbered 53-30 in the final

GavinDragon wrote:am I right in thinking that the EP Kings at this time are a Currie Cup team?

That means in terms of level they are an equivalent of the Welsh Prem (2nd tier)

How would a 2nd string springbok side get on against Pontypridd?

Very well I should imagine.
Game told us very little - reminded me of typical earlyLions midweek games. However it was very entertaining - nice to see counterattacking from both sides

Biltong wrote:Kings haven't actually managed to qualify for the Currie Cup in yonks, they have been given a spot in the Currie Cup Premier division due to pressure put on SARU.

They haven't won the Currie Cup Second division for a long time either.

right so on merit then they are a third tier SA side?

Again just shows the lack of depth we have in wales, a third tier Welsh side would not get within 60-70 points of a bok side

Was a decent game. I felt we played our same old game plan though. Would have been a good chance to see something new.

The referee was not short from abysmal. Im not one to rant and rave about refs performances but ffs if that was a closer game we would have had no chance. Not only was he bias he was always in the way of players. He didn't know were to place himself during play. Terrible calls about poor Jarvis and all the offsides that weren't. But the funniest thing was we had a 4 second advantage and it wasn't even kicked away (game went on as normal after the advantage). No lie.
Anyway, Baker was my mom. Great player and gats Would be stupid not to fit him in on Saturday. Turnball, Jake ball and Matthew Morgan stood out to me as well. Got some promising players coming through and we have developed mire depth now than last years dreaded japan tour.

But we have seen time and time again where so called 'lesser' teams have upped their game when a touring side comes along and Kings done that tonight.

Jh,

I would put Baker on the bench and have a backrow of lydiate faketau and Turnbull, Morgan done ok and was good to see him not be afraid to run ball but he needs to learn when to and when not to. He got turned over few occasions to easily, Baldwin had good game as did Evans and Allen just looks so comfortable at this level.

GavinDragon wrote:

Biltong wrote:Kings haven't actually managed to qualify for the Currie Cup in yonks, they have been given a spot in the Currie Cup Premier division due to pressure put on SARU.

They haven't won the Currie Cup Second division for a long time either.

right so on merit then they are a third tier SA side?

Again just shows the lack of depth we have in wales, a third tier Welsh side would not get within 60-70 points of a bok side

You can't compare in that manner, there are far too many variables to consider, sometimes midweek matches are much tougher than you'd expect, a club team can be highly motivated and attrition in a match can lead to close matches.

You cannot take too much out of a game like this, it also depends what the coach's instruction and expectations for the game was.

This coming weekend will tell you what you want to know.

bedfordwelsh wrote:But we have seen time and time again where so called 'lesser' teams have upped their game when a touring side comes along and Kings done that tonight.

Exactly.

hmmm perhaps,

but agree with most comments morgan looks lively just needs to learn when to run and when to kick, he is also not strong defending

i thought Jake Ball carried well also

BW, yes he did but he did challenge the opposition which is why he stood out to me. As you said still a long way for him but he does look promising.
Baldwin was the other I was thinking of had a quite season with the ospreys after such a promising prior to last seasons but the last 3 games I have seen him in he has stepped up. But he does need to be more accurate in his throwing in which has let him down all year.

Lets face it this game was really about the bench though i though one player showed he si ready to start and one that he may need a rest.

Baker at 8 and Toby at 7 is the way forward though i thought Turnbull performed very well today and i would pick him over Shingler.

Morgan was the stand out again. I would like to see him and Davies on the bench but think he will go with Hook and Allen then all bases are covered. Allen looked stronger but like Cuthbert he has gangly hands. Evans was sound in the tight today and deserves his bench spot.

Thought Cuthbert was poor despite his try, cannot make any ground in the tight and loses ball in contact, his speculative hospital pass to allen in the 22 was plain crazy. I have no doubt he will start but he should be on warning

Jenkins
Owens
Jones
AWJ
Charters
Lydoate
Faletau
Baker

Philipps. I want Davies but i am sure it won't be him and think Gats will go with what his experience
Biggar
Cuthbert
Jamie
Foxy
George - how sick is he?
Liam

James
Rees but he will probably go Baldwin
R Jones
Ianto
Turnbull
Davies but he R Williams likely
Hook
Allen

Davies and Morgan really showed what nippy fiddlers can do in the last third and i would love to see at least one of them given a bench spot against the lumbering biltong snackers

I cant see him starting with Lydiate Baker and Faleatu (though happy if he did) I think its more likely Turnbull will start with Baker on the bench then maybe see that combo later in game.

Probably not bedford but Baker showed today not only is he solid in the set piece, he has great hands and great awareness, he created the Cuthbert try and almost acts as a Martyn Willaims type back row with a much bigger punch.

Scratch wrote:Probably not bedford but Baker showed today not only is he solid in the set piece, he has great hands and great awareness, he created the Cuthbert try and almost acts as a Martyn Willaims type back row with a much bigger punch.

Agree which is why I think we could see him on bench over Shingler/Turnbull depending on who starts then if need be Faletau can cover 7.

Wales team:
Liam Williams (Scarlets), Alex Cuthbert (Cardiff Blues), Jonathan Davies (Scarlets), Jamie Roberts (Racing Metro), George North (Northampton Saints), Dan Biggar (Ospreys), Mike Phillips (Racing Metro), Gethin Jenkins (Cardiff Blues), Ken Owens (Scarlets), Adam Jones (Ospreys), Luke Charteris (Perpignan), Alun Wyn Jones (Capt) (Ospreys), Dan Lydiate (Racing Metro), Aaron Shingler (Scarlets), Taulupe Faletau (Newport Gwent Dragons).

Replacements: Matthew Rees (Cardiff Blues), Paul James (Bath), Samson Lee (Scarlets), Ian Evans (Ospreys), Josh Turnbull (Scarlets), Gareth Davies (Scarlets), James Hook (Perpignan), Matthew Morgan (Ospreys).

That is a decent selection there, who is not there apart from Warburton?

Halfpenny, Tipuric, Hibbard are missing, Biltong.

happy that Morgan on the bench . glad north ok and playing . no real surprises , Jake ball unlucky

Chuffed for Davies and Morgan. 2 very exciting players and were the stand out players for Possibles and the mid week team. Earned that bench space and could possibly challenge for a start before the summer is up. Fairly strong team vs an ageing Bok side, but I don't see them winning. Close loss might be all they can hope for.

We'll miss having a specialist openside, and also miss Hibbard's psychopathic hits, although Ken Owens is a very good player. Between Dan Biggar and Liam Williams, we should make up for most of Halfpenny.

Not too sure about the bench, Matthew Morgan & Hook seems a bit weird when North is ill during the week, maybe could have had one of them and Jordan/Allen there instead.

It is hard to see Wales winning; it would depend on getting the set piece right (particularly lineout), tactics right (not just Warrenball) and being at least competitive at the breakdown. I am not sure we'll do any of those, although I've a little more hope on the tactics after recent statement by the coaching team. Our lineout tends to suffer against Matfield!

June Internationals: Springboks – Team named for 1st Wales Test


South Africa’s Player of the Year in 2010, Gurthrö Steenkamp, will make his 50th Test appearance for the Springboks when they take on Wales at Growthpoint Kings Park in Durban on Saturday (kick-off 17:00 SA Time, 15:00 GMT).

Steenkamp has been included in the starting line-up for the first Welsh Test in one of six changes to the match-day squad from the team which comprehensively beat the World XV last weekend in Cape Town, four of which are positional shifts.

Cornal Hendricks, who shone for the Springboks last weekend at DHL Newlands, will make his Test debut on Saturday, while his provincial team mate from the Toyota Free State Cheetahs, the uncapped Lood de Jager, has been selected on the bench.

The two changes in the backline are at inside centre, where Jan Serfontein will earn his first Test start for South Africa, and scrumhalf, where Fourie du Preez will start with Ruan Pienaar on the bench alongside Tendai Mtawarira, who has swapped places with Steenkamp.



The 32-year-old Steenkamp, who made his international debut on 27 November 2004 against Scotland in Edinburgh, will become the 29th Springbok to reach 50 Test caps. He will also become the sixth prop to achieve this feat behind Os du Randt, CJ van der Linde, Ollie le Roux, Jannie du Plessis and Mtawarira.

“This is a wonderful achievement for Gurthrö and I’m very proud of him,” said Springbok coach Heyneke Meyer.

“He has been playing Test rugby for a decade and is vastly experienced at all levels of the game. Gurthrö always gives everything he has for the Springbok jersey and it’s always good to see commitment and hard work pay off.”

Meyer was also very happy for Hendricks and De Jager, who have been two of the Toyota Cheetahs’ stars this season.

“To make one’s Test debut is a proud moment in any player’s career. Cornal and Lood fully deserve to be in the squad this weekend and I know they will do well,” said Meyer.

“Cornal performed exceptionally well in his first start for South Africa against the World XV last weekend and really made the most of his opportunity.”

“Lood has everything expected from a modern lock – not only is he big and powerful, but he likes the physical stuff and is very skilful as well.”

“I also planned on giving Jan an opportunity this month. He was first selected when he was 20 last year and it’s always been our plan to groom him for a long Springbok career. He’s been playing well for the Vodacom Bulls lately and his first start for the Springboks is well-deserved after making nine appearances from the bench in 2013.”

“Jan and JP Pietersen will face a very experienced midfield combination on Saturday, but they have played against the best in Vodacom Super Rugby and know what is expected of them.”

Meyer said he is expecting a stern challenge from Wales on Saturday.

“They started their tour well with a good win in Port Elizabeth on Tuesday evening and they are always fired up and ready,” said the Springbok coach.

“Wales have an experienced coaching team and they were the Six Nations champions in 2012 and 2013, as well as the back-bone of the British & Irish Lions team which beat Australia last year, so this will be a massive challenge in our first Test of the season.”

“Although we got our season off to a good start against the World XV last weekend, there were a few areas of the game we were not satisfied with and which we worked hard on this week. We will have to be at our best on Saturday and we want to make our supporters proud.”

Victor Matfield, who will captain the Springboks for the 18th time in a Test, will equal John Smit’s South African record of 111 Tests in the Green and Gold.

Four players who are part of the squad were not considered for selection because of illness and injury. They are Juan de Jongh (chest infection), Siya Kolisi (flu), Oupa Mohoje (flu) and Marnitz Boshoff (ankle).



Springbok team:

15. Willie le Roux (12 caps 20 points) age 24
14. Cornal Hendricks (0 caps 0 points) age 26
13. JP Pietersen (51 caps 80 points) age 27
12. Jan Serfontein (9 caps 5 points) age 21
11. Bryan Habana (95 caps 265 points) age 31
10. Morné Steyn (54 caps 636 points) age 29
9. Fourie du Preez (vice-captain – 67 caps, 75 points) age 32
8. Duane Vermeulen (16 caps 5 points) age 27
7. Willem Alberts (30 caps 35 points) age 30
6. Francois Louw (28 caps 25 points) age 28
5. Victor Matfield (captain – 110 caps 35 points) age 37
4. Bakkies Botha (78 caps 35 points) age 34
3. Jannie du Plessis (51 caps 5 points) age 31
2. Bismarck du Plessis (vice-captain – 57 caps 45 points) age 30
1. Gurthrö Steenkamp (49 caps 30 points) age 33

Replacements:
16. Schalk Brits (5 caps 0 points) age 33
17. Tendai Mtawarira (53 caps 10 points) age 28
18. Coenie Oosthuizen (14 caps 10 points) age 25
19. Lood de Jager (0 caps 0 points) age 21
20. Schalk Burger (68 caps 65 points) age 31
21. Ruan Pienaar (74 caps 130 points) age 30
22. Johan Goosen (4 caps 8 points) age 21
23. Lwazi Mvovo (7 caps 5 points) age 28

average age 28 years 6 months.

Not that ageing, remember Etzebeth is injured, he is only 21, Adriaan Strauss is serving a ban, he is only 28, Pieter Steph du toit is injured, he is only 20, Lambie is only 24.

Meyer has little choice to pick Victor and Bakkies, Etzebeth would have been a certain starter.

Burger is being tested to see if he still has it, the other incumbent backrowers are all under 24.

The big concern for me here is MOrne Steyn, not because of his age but because he is kak. Fourie du Preez and Ruan Pienaar should make way for Kobus Reinach, also a youngster.

Damien de Allende is injured, he was a certain starter, only 22.

Biltong, why isn't Flip Van Der Merwe in the squad? He looked quality in the Autumn, now isn't even on the bench ?!

Just a joke that will backfire on Meyer big time in the long run.

Think Matfield, Bakkies will still have it in 15 months time?

This guy is worse than PDV. Far worse.

BamBam wrote:Biltong, why isn't Flip Van Der Merwe in the squad? He looked quality in the Autumn, now isn't even on the bench ?!

I honestly don't know BamBam.

Biltong wrote:

BamBam wrote:Biltong, why isn't Flip Van Der Merwe in the squad? He looked quality in the Autumn, now isn't even on the bench ?!

I honestly don't know BamBam.

Flip lost something like 1 lineout in the AIs.... all for apparently a make do 5. Meyer is so blind.

Flip is a far better player than Matfield now. He's a 4 with an outstanding record at 5.

Perhaps Meyer is worried about captaincy issues... but come on, its a home series vs. Wales not an away series in NZ. And when you have chaps like Fourie & Bissie in the side you have enough leaders out there.

Starting to think SARU were right in 2007 in choosing PDV over Meyer.

ScarletSpiderman wrote:Not too sure about the bench, Matthew Morgan & Hook seems a bit weird when North is ill during the week, maybe could have had one of them and Jordan/Allen there instead.

SS,

I agree, whilst i think its good Gatland is rewarding performance and giving Morgan a chance I would have had Hook and Allen on the bench as backs cover with Baker on the bench and Turnbull starting.

That said i think its pretty much our strongest side available to us at the moment and you need that against these guys. Great news for Adam to get his 100th International cap and for Jenkins to become highest capped Welshman.

I would guess that if North can't make the game, they'll bring Jordan W in as a straight replacement and leave the bench as it is.

BlueNote wrote:I would guess that if North can't make the game, they'll bring Jordan W in as a straight replacement and leave the bench as it is.

Or move Li Williams to wing and bring Hook in at XV (though) hope not.

SA by 15+

Scrumpy wrote:SA by 15+

I wouldn't argue with that Scrumpy but hope your wrong of course.

I am not so sure it is going to be that easy for the Boks.

Our front row comprising Gurthro who hasn't played with his mates since last November, Victor and Bakkies not playing regularly for the Boks in the last two years, Fourie du Preez and Morne Steyn never playing together and not knowing our midfield combo, it might all just go very wrong for the Boks.

Besides, it is very likely the Boks will struggle the first half to click.

I still can not shake the feeling that it is going to be a real pounding for the welsh lads as we try to us our tried and tested (and regularly failed) physical dominance game plan. Followed by an improvement in our style when we start bringing the subs on, but too late to have any real impact.

Also if George is unfit, I think it will be Morgan to fullback, Sanjay on the wing, and Allen on the bench.

Unfortunately I see Wales being hammered at the breakdown and rolling mauled to death. Boks by 25 points it pains me to say

SA by 25!

OUCH!

BlueNote wrote:I would guess that if North can't make the game, they'll bring Jordan W in as a straight replacement and leave the bench as it is.

Didn't he play a full 80 on Tuesday? Another 80 in only a few days would be a big ask. Would say Morgan to 15 and LiWilliams to wing but I think he played a full 80 as well!

go on Wales i ll pick you too win by 5 . hee hee   

Without Warburton, Halfpenny, Tipuric, Hibbard I think it will be too tough.

May get closer than people expect and could cause the boks some problems in the lineout with Shingler coming in to support.

Can't see beyond a bok victory... although it won't be pretty.

I hope some of those forwards are going to work very hard to justify their inclusion, as they know when Warburton and Tipuric are fit they'll have to fight for their places again.

Turnball should have either started or not been in the team at tall because he isn't really a big impact sub like Baker could have been. It's not fair on Turnball because Shingler has been injured and hasn't shown why he should start ahead of Turnball but this is Gatlands logic.
Either way Baker should have started but it was expected. Good pack, I think a lot of pressure is on Charteris during rolling mauls and line outs.
I really do hope Foure Du Preez embarrasses Phillips so Gatland can wake up and bring in the new talented scrum halfs.
I am chuffed Samson Lee is on the bench though, thoroughly deserved and overall strong frond 5 players to come on.

Jhamer25

Unlikely I think about Phillips... if there is one side Phillips thrives on its the boks. He is near the perfect scrumhalf against. The series will probably give him a new lease of life which will last to the next world cup... IMO a shame for Wales as I think outside of a big physical side like the boks, he's often 2nd best and they have better alternatives.

Why why why is Matfield back? He was the best 5 of his generation but he's now 37 and it's not as if he's Simon Shaw or anything...

Have to say Flip is very unlucky he's been high quality when i've seen him. Botha I can understand given Etzebeth and Du Toit are injured.

I have to say I think that's one of the best backrows in rugby at the moment. Vermeulen has really upped his game and been very impressive. Alberts and Louw compliment perfectly. The front row is good but Gurthro has been stuffed at times in the Top 14 so A Jones could get a nudge on there. I take it Mtawarira gets the blame for last week?

The only thing i'd say for Wales is that they could've had the Boks at last RWC and i'm not so sure Warrenball is as fallible against the Boks as some may think.

with S A injuries and calling out the old guard , perhaps , perhaps and Im saying perhaps this is the best chance Wales will have to beating the boks in their own backyard . Im smiling typing this because Wales will do everything possible to help meyers team win and then after a ten minute complete balls up of play will play catch up in the last quarter where we play our best rugby .

Scrumpy wrote:SA by 15+

i think you mean NZ by 15 but if not, more scintillating analysis/wummery from the head clown

BlueNote wrote:I would guess that if North can't make the game, they'll bring Jordan W in as a straight replacement and leave the bench as it is.

or williams to the wing and morgan to 15…if he's good enough to bench he is good enough to start

fa0019 wrote:Without Warburton, Halfpenny, Tipuric, Hibbard I think it will be too tough.

May get closer than people expect and could cause the boks some problems in the lineout with Shingler coming in to support.

Can't see beyond a bok victory... although it won't be pretty.

Warburton and Tipuric wouldn't have both started, Li Williams proved there is life without Halfpenny and some say he is actually a better XV anyway, Hibbards physicality will be missed.

meyer  talking about an advantage for Wales  having a northern hemisphere ref and the Welsh team having  played in the six nations whilst the boks only getting started . that's exactly how it is for us in the autumn series .plus the six nations months ago

just watched the 2011 game (time off from a knee op with far too much time on my hands) I want to see us take the game to them like we did in that match,

However I fear we will be overpowered in scrum and back row and the backline will be starved of ball